Re: Munich Sprint

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 09:58:35 PM John Layt wrote:
> On 18 April 2016 at 20:58, John Layt  wrote:
> > That would be kprinter. Credative / Limux had a replacement for KDE4
> > called kprinter4 (part of which is a poorly-attributed fork of some
> > code I wrote for Okular):
> > 
> > http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KPrinter4?content=163537
> > https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kprinter4.git
> > 
> > It's in playground, been meaning to have a poke at it to see if it's
> > still of any use. AFAIK though it only works on postscript files and
> > relies on very old tools like poster, but it shouldn't take much to
> > generalise it for all file types supported by CUPS, and to update to
> > more modern PDF-based tools. Add in a Dolphin service for a context
> > menu print option and it's done. Perhaps a small porting project for
> > someone to bring it into Plasma5?
> 
> So I spent a couple of hours writing a new one with correct copyrights
> on it, basically my Okular code ported to Qt5 and wrapped in a command
> line call. Pretty basic so far but takes a filename or shows the file
> dialog, then shows the print dialog, then sends it to the printer.
> Lots of polishing required, Linux/CUPS only, yadda yadda, but if
> there's interest I'll try finish it this weekend and put it up for
> review. Any suggestions where this should live?

kdeutils, perhaps?
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
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Re: Munich Sprint

[John Layt]

On 18 April 2016 at 22:50, dennis knorr  wrote:

> as far as i am aware, kprinter from credativ was only a part which was
> needed. The old kde printing system had more features. but as i explain
> in my other mail, i first wanted to tidy up our issues before
> "ambushing" you. :)

There's still a lot of features missing from QtPrintSupport and it
needs a fundamental re-write to support modern print systems (e.g,
pull printing, IPP, cloud services, etc). The underlying architecture
is designed and parts implemented, but to bring it to completion is
not a weekend activity (my last change-set took 6 months and almost
broke me). Funding needs to be found in the Qt community to support at
least a years full-time work to implement everything needed on all the
platforms. Sadly, seems no-one is interested in paying for such
un-sexy work, because supposedly we live in a paperless society...

John.
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Re: Munich Sprint

[John Layt]

On 18 April 2016 at 20:58, John Layt  wrote:
> That would be kprinter. Credative / Limux had a replacement for KDE4
> called kprinter4 (part of which is a poorly-attributed fork of some
> code I wrote for Okular):
>
> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KPrinter4?content=163537
> https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kprinter4.git
>
> It's in playground, been meaning to have a poke at it to see if it's
> still of any use. AFAIK though it only works on postscript files and
> relies on very old tools like poster, but it shouldn't take much to
> generalise it for all file types supported by CUPS, and to update to
> more modern PDF-based tools. Add in a Dolphin service for a context
> menu print option and it's done. Perhaps a small porting project for
> someone to bring it into Plasma5?

So I spent a couple of hours writing a new one with correct copyrights
on it, basically my Okular code ported to Qt5 and wrapped in a command
line call. Pretty basic so far but takes a filename or shows the file
dialog, then shows the print dialog, then sends it to the printer.
Lots of polishing required, Linux/CUPS only, yadda yadda, but if
there's interest I'll try finish it this weekend and put it up for
review. Any suggestions where this should live?

John.
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Re: Munich Sprint

[dennis knorr]

Hi,
if someone has no account for wiki.debian.org, just mail me or my
colleagues and we will count you in. additionally i idle in #debian-muc
on oftc if you have any questions!
It's better if we know you're coming so we can prepare the right amount
of meals.. :)

we are happy if you come! :-D

See you and now, gn8,
Dennis


On 18.04.2016 14:59, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> There's a sprint in Munich with our favourite large Plasma rollout,
> Limux at the end of May
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/BSP/2016/05/de/Munich
> May 27/28/29
> 
> They will provide office space and three meals a day but no
> accommodation or travel.  I usually book at a room at the nearby
> Motel-1 hotel.
> 
> No particular theme but I expect me and Harald to be there for KDE neon.
> 
> Jonathan
> ___
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> 
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Re: Munich Sprint

[dennis knorr]

Hi from munich,
On 18.04.2016 21:58, John Layt wrote:
> On 18 April 2016 at 16:14, Kai Uwe Broulik  wrote:
> 
>> * something about a printing tool kde 3 had we lost
> 
> That would be kprinter. Credative / Limux had a replacement for KDE4
> called kprinter4 (part of which is a poorly-attributed fork of some
> code I wrote for Okular):

as far as i am aware, kprinter from credativ was only a part which was
needed. The old kde printing system had more features. but as i explain
in my other mail, i first wanted to tidy up our issues before
"ambushing" you. :)

Dennis
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Re: Munich Sprint

[dennis knorr]

Hi Kai!
i would have written to the mailinglist like you suggested, but first i
wanted to tidy up our issues before telling about it at the hackfest :>

here a few infos off the top of my head.

On 18.04.2016 17:14, Kai Uwe Broulik wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> No particular theme but I expect me and Harald to be there for KDE neon.
> 
> Awesome. So please have them explain the UX issues they're having with Plasma 
> in such an environment. Issues I could grasp so far were:
> 
> * something about a printing tool kde 3 had we lost

yeah, a part of it was replaced by the implementation from credativ.

> * desktop pre-configuration

We work on different kinds of desktop systems atm, and have someone who
already has a configured desktop. but on the next login, the network
widget should show up, which is normally not shown (The admins requested
that, since they thought the user would deactivate the network
connection.. which can be quite bad, if your user is 6 kilometers away
in a kindergarden and not very techsavy.

> * kiosk and locking down the desktop so the user couldn't mess it up, 
> including the ability to have system settings take precedence (iirc kconfig 
> inheritance only works one-way)

for example not starting or stopping a widget, not change the
screensaver starting time and stuff like that. We have techsavy users
who can change their own configfiles

> * (plasma-)nm scripting / pre-configuration

that's more a vpnplugin issue (if i interpret that text in accordance to
our talk :D) with openconnect and not really an plasma issue, i think.
the vpnplugin  openconnect has only user privileges, but the almighty
powers that be, decided that the certificate for connecting to the
RemoteAccessSystem should be the same as the machine certificate. The
original cisco implementation (anyconnect) has an demon, which can
access that stuff, but the plugin cannot. credativ works at a demon for
that, but i do not know whether this should go upstream, or
networkmanager should integrate openconnect into their code more closely.

> * DrKonqi confusing users and the inability to report issues to us (policies) 
> so they should be auto-reported to their it dep

that was always some picknick idea of us. the administration regards
privacy very seriously, and the only way we could report issues would
be, if we could let them report to us, and we could define how much can
be seen in a coredump. i'm not totally sure how well that can be
implemented.

> * folderview in multi-screen: each screen operates on the same desktop 
> folder, confusing users, especially those accustomed to Windows 

yeah... like a file in the folder on two screens.. user deletes the file
and does not expect it is not there on the other screen as well... and
more of that user-expecting-different-behaviour- or
user-does-not-understand-anything-stuff.

atm we have some issues with akonadi and/or knotes, but iggi could tell
you more about that one.


But do not rush now...
We're not quite sure, which usecases/issues we have, should or can be
implemented within KDE/Plasma, but at least we thought it would be good
talking about it (or showing them to you).
Additionally ATM, we have a quite a lot heavy projects to build for the
city, so there there are legitimate fears we do not have enough time to
prepare and present you the issues in a good constructive way.

But i hope that explains at least a little bit our problems :-)

Yours, gn8,
Dennis

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Re: Munich Sprint

[John Layt]

On 18 April 2016 at 16:14, Kai Uwe Broulik  wrote:

> * something about a printing tool kde 3 had we lost

That would be kprinter. Credative / Limux had a replacement for KDE4
called kprinter4 (part of which is a poorly-attributed fork of some
code I wrote for Okular):

http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KPrinter4?content=163537
https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kprinter4.git

It's in playground, been meaning to have a poke at it to see if it's
still of any use. AFAIK though it only works on postscript files and
relies on very old tools like poster, but it shouldn't take much to
generalise it for all file types supported by CUPS, and to update to
more modern PDF-based tools. Add in a Dolphin service for a context
menu print option and it's done. Perhaps a small porting project for
someone to bring it into Plasma5?

John.
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Re: Munich Sprint

[Luca Beltrame]

In data lunedì 18 aprile 2016 17:14:56 CEST, Kai Uwe Broulik ha scritto:

> * kiosk and locking down the desktop so the user couldn't mess it up,

Some work going on, check "confine" on KDE git.

-- 
Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team
KDE Science supporter
GPG key ID: A29D259B

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Re: Munich Sprint

[Kai Uwe Broulik]

Hi,

> No particular theme but I expect me and Harald to be there for KDE neon.

Awesome. So please have them explain the UX issues they're having with Plasma 
in such an environment. Issues I could grasp so far were:

* something about a printing tool kde 3 had we lost
* desktop pre-configuration
* kiosk and locking down the desktop so the user couldn't mess it up, including 
the ability to have system settings take precedence (iirc kconfig inheritance 
only works one-way)
* (plasma-)nm scripting / pre-configuration 
* DrKonqi confusing users and the inability to report issues to us (policies) 
so they should be auto-reported to their it dep
* folderview in multi-screen: each screen operates on the same desktop folder, 
confusing users, especially those accustomed to Windows 

Cheers, 
Kai Uwe

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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Michael Bohlender]

Wow. I really messed messed up communicating this properly.

The question is Would you like to have a regular Plasma sprint there?
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Jens]

If you guys need a graphics designer with a mustasche I am s there!

On Tuesday 08 July 2014 19.40.04 Michael Bohlender wrote:
 Hey everyone!
 
 The City of Munich (one of our largest institutional users) has offered
 Kubuntu, Debian, LibreOffice and KDE PIM to host two hackfests/sprints in
 November (two teams per event). The LibreOffice guys are busy with another
 sprint somewhere in France and can't make it.  So the choice is now to
 either have a single event with three teams, or to find another team that
 wants to come to Munich.
 
 Are you guys interested ?
 I should probably mention, that there is free food and beverages for the
 entire weekend, cooked and payed for by our gracious host.
 
 Cheers
 
 M.

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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Tuesday 08 July 2014 19:40:04 Michael Bohlender wrote:
 Hey everyone!
 
 The City of Munich (one of our largest institutional users) has offered
 Kubuntu, Debian, LibreOffice and KDE PIM to host two hackfests/sprints in
 November (two teams per event). The LibreOffice guys are busy with another
 sprint somewhere in France and can't make it.  So the choice is now to
 either have a single event with three teams, or to find another team that
 wants to come to Munich.
 
 Are you guys interested ?
 I should probably mention, that there is free food and beverages for the
 entire weekend, cooked and payed for by our gracious host.

I attended last year and it was really great. I'd recommend we take this 
chance as we can learn a lot from what the needs are for large installations 
(and helps us to make that a selling feature over our free software 
competitors ;-)

Cheers
Martin

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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Michael Bohlender]

There seems to be general interest, so I suggest you just participate in
our doodle poll [1].
We need to be ~20 people to make it worth the LiMux guys time and effort.

Cheers

M.

[1]  http://doodle.com/w4d2hdfmxhyn3duq
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[David Edmundson]

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Martin Graesslin mgraess...@kde.org wrote:
 On Tuesday 08 July 2014 19:40:04 Michael Bohlender wrote:
 Hey everyone!

 The City of Munich (one of our largest institutional users) has offered
 Kubuntu, Debian, LibreOffice and KDE PIM to host two hackfests/sprints in
 November (two teams per event). The LibreOffice guys are busy with another
 sprint somewhere in France and can't make it.  So the choice is now to
 either have a single event with three teams, or to find another team that
 wants to come to Munich.

 Are you guys interested ?
 I should probably mention, that there is free food and beverages for the
 entire weekend, cooked and payed for by our gracious host.

As much as I love free food, do they cover flights + accommodation?


 I attended last year and it was really great. I'd recommend we take this
 chance as we can learn a lot from what the needs are for large installations
 (and helps us to make that a selling feature over our free software


Is it more discussing problems and solutions or working through their
internal bugzilla?

If we're doing fixes for Munich that means working on Plasma 4.11. Not
a complete waste of time, but not exactly an ideal place to be
spending our time given I doubt we're making any more releases in that
series.
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Michael Bohlender]

 As much as I love free food, do they cover flights + accommodation?



 Is it more discussing problems and solutions or working through their
 internal bugzilla?


No and no. This is supposed to be a regular KDE sprint. We are free to work
on whatever we want. They are just providing us with rooms (and food) and
there is the additional benefit of being able to talk with them about their
experience and pain points with our products.
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Marco Martin]

On Tuesday 08 July 2014, Martin Graesslin wrote:

 I attended last year and it was really great. I'd recommend we take this
 chance as we can learn a lot from what the needs are for large
 installations (and helps us to make that a selling feature over our free
 software competitors ;-)
 
 Cheers
 Martin
It may be interesting, yes

-- 
Marco Martin
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Aleix Pol]

El dia 08/07/2014 20.11, Michael Bohlender michael.bohlen...@kdemail.net
va escriure:

 There seems to be general interest, so I suggest you just participate in
our doodle poll [1].
 We need to be ~20 people to make it worth the LiMux guys time and effort.

 Cheers

 M.

 [1]  http://doodle.com/w4d2hdfmxhyn3duq


So what would we be doing there? I can come if it's useful, but I would
like to be convinced.

Aleix
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Michael Bohlender]

 So what would we be doing there? I can come if it's useful, but I would
 like to be convinced.

That is up to you as the Plasma team.
KDE PIMs topics will likely include the ongoing frameworks port and QML
APIs for our stuff.
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Re: Munich Sprint in November?

[Aleix Pol]

On Tuesday 08 July 2014 21:08:28 Michael Bohlender wrote:
  So what would we be doing there? I can come if it's useful, but I 
would
  like to be convinced.
 
 That is up to you as the Plasma team.
 KDE PIMs topics will likely include the ongoing frameworks port and 
QML
 APIs for our stuff.

So the question is if Plasma wants to have a sprint there? Or if we want 
to meet and figure out the problems they have in LiMux?

Aleix

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