Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
> > Anyway, no need to say that if there is new feature to play fullscreen > > movies on several monitors, user should have the choice to enable or > > disable this feature (I don't think all xinerama users want to watch > > their movie across all their monitors ;-)) > > yes the script would have to be installed manually. But that's the general > idea behind the scripting. Allowing users to do much much more with the > window manager than what has been possible before. Just for the record: https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/104014/ The script will be installed, the user just has to enable it. I think this is a quite nice solution to such problems. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
Am 20.01.2012, 19:08 Uhr, schrieb Shaun Reich : lxr has both C++ understanding (which is that default textbox you see, Thanks a lot. It's the KGlobalSettings::splashScreenDesktopGeometry() in kdeglobals.cpp what sounds like legacy code(*) since nowadays splashscreens tend to be _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_SPLASH, are managed and placed by kwin as placeOnMainWindow() what in doubt means "center of the main windows screen" - no idea whether KDE splashscreens actually perform a geometry request, but that sounds pointless to me and is probably left over from pre-netwm times?! *shrug* Cheers, Thomas (*) professional and non offending way to say "bit rot" or "cruft" ;-) ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 20:04:12 Hans Chen wrote: > While we're talking about confusing options in System Settings, I've always > wondered why there are two Xinerama options in Window Behavior (Focus tab) > - "Separate screen focus" and "Active screen follows mouse". In particular, > how does the latter work together with "Show unmanaged windows on"? Honest answer: I have no clue what these options are about. > > Thought it could be worth taking into consideration when cleaning up the > multiple monitor options. Yes that is needed. > > With best regards, > Hans > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 19:08, Shaun Reich wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Thomas Lübking > > > > wrote: > > > a) cool - wasn't aware that there's lxr.kde.org (just typed that into > > > > the > > > > > browser just after reading ;-) > > > b) "how"? - afaik lxr only handles definitions, not "use random strings > > > > in > > > > > some function" and while 'Unmanaged' leads to the kwin Unmanged and some > > > other, '"Unmanaged"' leads nowhere -> > > > > lxr has both C++ understanding (which is that default textbox you see, > > identifier searching), as well as a more hidden feature under 'general > > search' wherein you can search arbitrary strings in arbitrary files, > > arbitrarily (like grep) ;-) > > > > supports regexp as well > > > > that's the one i tend to need the most honestly. though you need to be > > careful when searching strings, as remember some may be like > > 'unmanaged wi&ndow', which would just screw your whole search over ;) > > > > -- > > Shaun Reich, > > KDE Software Developer (kde.org) > > ___ > > Plasma-devel mailing list > > Plasma-devel@kde.org > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
While we're talking about confusing options in System Settings, I've always wondered why there are two Xinerama options in Window Behavior (Focus tab) - "Separate screen focus" and "Active screen follows mouse". In particular, how does the latter work together with "Show unmanaged windows on"? Thought it could be worth taking into consideration when cleaning up the multiple monitor options. With best regards, Hans On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 19:08, Shaun Reich wrote: > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Thomas Lübking > wrote: > > a) cool - wasn't aware that there's lxr.kde.org (just typed that into > the > > browser just after reading ;-) > > b) "how"? - afaik lxr only handles definitions, not "use random strings > in > > some function" and while 'Unmanaged' leads to the kwin Unmanged and some > > other, '"Unmanaged"' leads nowhere -> > > lxr has both C++ understanding (which is that default textbox you see, > identifier searching), as well as a more hidden feature under 'general > search' wherein you can search arbitrary strings in arbitrary files, > arbitrarily (like grep) ;-) > > supports regexp as well > > that's the one i tend to need the most honestly. though you need to be > careful when searching strings, as remember some may be like > 'unmanaged wi&ndow', which would just screw your whole search over ;) > > -- > Shaun Reich, > KDE Software Developer (kde.org) > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Thomas Lübking wrote: > a) cool - wasn't aware that there's lxr.kde.org (just typed that into the > browser just after reading ;-) > b) "how"? - afaik lxr only handles definitions, not "use random strings in > some function" and while 'Unmanaged' leads to the kwin Unmanged and some > other, '"Unmanaged"' leads nowhere -> lxr has both C++ understanding (which is that default textbox you see, identifier searching), as well as a more hidden feature under 'general search' wherein you can search arbitrary strings in arbitrary files, arbitrarily (like grep) ;-) supports regexp as well that's the one i tend to need the most honestly. though you need to be careful when searching strings, as remember some may be like 'unmanaged wi&ndow', which would just screw your whole search over ;) -- Shaun Reich, KDE Software Developer (kde.org) ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
Am 20.01.2012, 17:11 Uhr, schrieb Martin Gräßlin :
So basically i guess this option is dead (unless it's read somewhere
else
and exported to the root window - but i don't know. My root window looks
unspectacular in this regard)
lxr will help for that :-)
a) cool - wasn't aware that there's lxr.kde.org (just typed that into the
browser just after reading ;-)
b) "how"? - afaik lxr only handles definitions, not "use random strings in
some function" and while 'Unmanaged' leads to the kwin Unmanged and some
other, '"Unmanaged"' leads nowhere ->
find -name "*.cpp" -exec grep -H '"Unmanaged"' '{}' \;
in kde-workspace finds the xinerama kcm and - likely unrelated ;-) -
plasma/generic/dataengines/network/networkengine.cpp
Cheers,
Thomas
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Re: Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 16:52:00 Thomas =?ISO-8859-1?Q?L�bking?= wrote:
> Am 20.01.2012, 13:31 Uhr, schrieb Martin Gräßlin :
> > On Friday 20 January 2012 13:11:03 Alex Fiestas wrote:
> >> On Friday, January 20, 2012 11:32:13 AM Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> >> > From the userinterface the only useful option is "Show unmanaged
> >>
> >> windows
> >>
> >> > on" which should be kept.
>
> Errrheemmm ... hehe uu
>
> It writes "Unmanaged" to [Windows] in kdeglobals from where it is at least
> not read by KWin (which would not place unmanaged windows anyway)
> KWin reads XineramaPlacementScreen and ("somehow") uses it to place
> *managed* windows.
I always considered the option to be for "windows not yet managed" =>
"unmanaged".
> I however don't know where a GUI config for this would reside and there's
> no such entry in my entire ~/.kde/share/config dir - which contains
> vry old files...
Hmm that would explain why I had the feeling for quite some time that the
option is not working.
>
> So basically i guess this option is dead (unless it's read somewhere else
> and exported to the root window - but i don't know. My root window looks
> unspectacular in this regard)
lxr will help for that :-)
>
> On general topic, i'm pretty much with Sebastian - "Make one HUGE screen"
> ./. "Make many Screens" should be entirely sufficient*, having different
> placement, maximization and resistance behavior sounds weird and otherwise
> the kcm looks like it crosses krandr.
>
> Cheers,
> Thomas
>
> *not sure whether this would lower code complexity, though...
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Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
Am 20.01.2012, 13:31 Uhr, schrieb Martin Gräßlin :
On Friday 20 January 2012 13:11:03 Alex Fiestas wrote:
On Friday, January 20, 2012 11:32:13 AM Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> From the userinterface the only useful option is "Show unmanaged
windows
> on" which should be kept.
Errrheemmm ... hehe uu
It writes "Unmanaged" to [Windows] in kdeglobals from where it is at least
not read by KWin (which would not place unmanaged windows anyway)
KWin reads XineramaPlacementScreen and ("somehow") uses it to place
*managed* windows.
I however don't know where a GUI config for this would reside and there's
no such entry in my entire ~/.kde/share/config dir - which contains
vry old files...
So basically i guess this option is dead (unless it's read somewhere else
and exported to the root window - but i don't know. My root window looks
unspectacular in this regard)
On general topic, i'm pretty much with Sebastian - "Make one HUGE screen"
./. "Make many Screens" should be entirely sufficient*, having different
placement, maximization and resistance behavior sounds weird and otherwise
the kcm looks like it crosses krandr.
Cheers,
Thomas
*not sure whether this would lower code complexity, though...
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Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 14:13:17 XI wrote:
> > so you would only need one of the options, the fullscreen one? And in
> > fact you only want that for vlc, right? You don't want the option for
> > let's say Firefox?
> >
> > So e.g. a KWin script taking care of setting the fullscreen video player
> > to all screens would suit you better, right?
>
> You are right, the only option I used is the fullscreen one. I used it
> with xine, but the same apply for vlc, Could also be useful for
> picture viewer, but you are right, I wouldn't want it for other
> applications.
>
> I don't know what's your idea behind the "script taking care of setting
> the fullscreen" ? Do you want to use "Special Window Settings..." menu
> for movie players ? If it works for setting a fullscreen spawning all
> monitors, that sounds a reasonable option for me.
> Or maybe you are thinking about something else ?
I'm talking about the scripting interface for KWin. I just wrote a script for
that:
workspace.clientFullScreenSet.connect(function(client, set) {
if (client.resourceName == "vlc" && set) {
client.geometry = {x: 0, y: 0, width: 1280+1920, height: 1024};
}
});
works like a charm. Vlc spans both screens when going to fullscreen. For 4.9
GHNS support for KWin scripts is scheduled. For more information about KWin
scripting see [1] (Be aware that the API changes with 4.9)
>
> Anyway, no need to say that if there is new feature to play fullscreen
> movies on several monitors, user should have the choice to enable or
> disable this feature (I don't think all xinerama users want to watch
> their movie across all their monitors ;-))
yes the script would have to be installed manually. But that's the general
idea behind the scripting. Allowing users to do much much more with the window
manager than what has been possible before.
Cheers
Martin
[1] http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/KWin/Scripting
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Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 13:31:49 todd rme wrote: > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Alex Fiestas wrote: > > The only reason I can think of is to create "video walls", meaning > > multiple > > monitors used as if they were 1. > > > > Not sure if that can be done lower in the stack using xrandr for example. > > But is that something that should be in this config? I would think > that would be something done on a window-by-window basis, rather than > a system-wide setting. I see two possible ways to handle this (not > mutually exclusive): > > 1. A window rule to ignore multi-monitor information when maximizing. > 2. An option when right-clicking on the title bar to maximum ignoring > multi-monitor information. This would add even more complexity and would further clutter the window menu with rather useless options. For such specific cases we have KWin scripts. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: > On Friday 20 January 2012 13:11:03 Alex Fiestas wrote: >> On Friday, January 20, 2012 11:32:13 AM Martin Gräßlin wrote: >> > From the userinterface the only useful option is "Show unmanaged windows >> > on" which should be kept. >> >> Well imho as a heavy multi* everything user I don't see why a user would >> want to force "Unmanaged windows" in one screen since usually your >> attention is where your pointer is. > there might be use cases for the other option. Think of a TV attached to the > screen. You would never want windows to open there. On the other hand the > mouse cursor won't be there either. So hmm maybe you're right ;-) > > Cheers > Martin Why would you assume your mouse isn't there? That would be true if you launch something using the application launcher, but if you use krunner to launch stuff you could easily have the mouse on, say, a TV or projector when you launch an application. -Todd ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 13:11:03 Alex Fiestas wrote: > On Friday, January 20, 2012 11:32:13 AM Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > From the userinterface the only useful option is "Show unmanaged windows > > on" which should be kept. > > Well imho as a heavy multi* everything user I don't see why a user would > want to force "Unmanaged windows" in one screen since usually your > attention is where your pointer is. there might be use cases for the other option. Think of a TV attached to the screen. You would never want windows to open there. On the other hand the mouse cursor won't be there either. So hmm maybe you're right ;-) Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 13:09:18 Xavier IZARD wrote:
> Martin Gräßlin a écrit :
> > Hi workspace developers,
> >
> > KWin provides the option to turn off multi screen aware window management.
> > This results in windows being maximized over both screens or fullscreen
> > windows being stretched over all screens. These options make the code much
> > more complex and add confusing configuration dialogs to our workspace (see
> > attached screenshot).
> >
> > Example code:
> > int Workspace::numScreens() const
> > {
> >
> > if (!options->xineramaEnabled)
> >
> > return 1;
> >
> > return Kephal::ScreenUtils::numScreens();
> >
> > }
> >
> > I personally fail to understand why the options are needed and why they
> > have been added in the first place. With git blame I was not able to go
> > back so far in the history to find when they were added. Note: the
> > xinerama code used also to be ifdefed, so I could imagine it being from a
> > time back when multi screens was a new feature.
> >
> >> From the userinterface the only useful option is "Show unmanaged windows
> >> on">
> > which should be kept. All other options make in my opinion just no sense.
> >
> > If nobody sees any good reason to keep these options I would prepare the
> > removal.
> >
> > The reason is btw not to remove options, but to decrease the complexity of
> > the code as shown above and the fact that it is a break my system setting
> > which happened more than once that users complained about maximize not
> > working any more.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Martin
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Could be more clear about the behaviour of kwin without these options ?
>
> I suppose that the behaviour would be the same as when all these options
> were checked ? (ie, maximize & fullscreen work on each screen
> independently, magnetic borders, ...)
yes, everything would be like the options are checked
>
> What about persons who group monitors to do a huge monitor panel ?
> (video wall).
> What about people who use very large monitor needing dual video inputs ?
those can disable xinerama support through xorg.conf
>
>
> My personal usage is (was) this one : I uncheck the option "Enable
> multiple monitor window fullscreen support" (all other options are
> checked). So that :
> -> When working on my computer, the maximized windows spawn only one
> monitor at a time, I get magnetic borders, ...
> -> When watching movie (fullscreen mode), the display spawns all my
> monitors thus doing a video wall.
so you would only need one of the options, the fullscreen one? And in fact you
only want that for vlc, right? You don't want the option for let's say
Firefox?
So e.g. a KWin script taking care of setting the fullscreen video player to
all screens would suit you better, right?
>
>
> Sorry, but what I see here is a powerful feature of KDE that is going to
> disappear ...
>
>
> Regards,
> Xavier
>
> P.S. I am the "author" of the option "Enable multiple monitor window
> fullscreen support"
Thanks for providing your feedback. This is appreciated and quite helpfull.
Cheers
Martin
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Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday 20 January 2012 11:53:22 Alex Fiestas wrote: > The only reason I can think of is to create "video walls", meaning multiple > monitors used as if they were 1. for that you do not even need these options. You can resize your window as big as you want. Quite independent from the options. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: [RFC] Remove Xinerama related options
On Friday, January 20, 2012 12:37:12 PM Sebastian Kügler wrote: > Just disabling Xinerama would be enough to achieve that. Thought xinerama was something deprecated and that should not be used :/ I don't know where xinerama is exactly, is it at the same level of XRandR ? one below? one above? Can I have XRandR without Xinerama? If so, can I achieve the "video wall" with it? Anyway, videowall is a corner case. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
