Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Pekka Reijula reij...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 09 November 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) QtScript apidocs are generated in Qt labs project qtscriptgenerator. My situation is that I want to write a full chat solution in a qtscript plasmoid using the QtScript Telepathy bindings I wrote. (I'm guessing a dataengine or service for buddy presence and chatting would be pretty crazy right?) We have created couple of soulutions where this kind of importing bindings is possible, so I'm more than a willing to start a discussion how to proceed with this kind of ideas in plasma. Our idea allows creation of plasmoids that have qtscript inside to your own plama desktop environment. We can extend plasma in a way that allows user to write own script with for example Kate or download it from http url. The basic idea is that only text is read and script is evaluated. All that you need for this is the qtscript-bindings that for example amarok uses. What this could offer, would be pretty much the same that the Qt-lively project offers in here: http://lively.cs.tut.fi/qt/videos.html All the widgets can be run also in our system. What do you deveopers think? Should plasma be able add these kind of widgets. Or should it be better to just create plasmoid that enables importing this kind of functionality inside. I could upload the plasmoid sources to kde, but I'm not yet a plasma developer. The QtScript bindings based on the language indpendent Smoke libraries are going well, and I'm not far short of being able to wrap the Plasma apis. http://gitorious.org/qtscript-smoke/qtscript-smoke The following items need to be implemented:before we can start on Plasma support: * Add a thread to periodically sweep the hash of C++ pointers to QtScript instances, and delete any entries where 'isValid()' is no longer true * Split the bindings up so that there is one QtScript plugin per smoke library * Rename the project 'JSmoke' (well that's my suggestion for a more catchy name anyway) The smoke bindings have a much lower memory footprint and are faster than the Qt Labs ones. The api is very similar with only minor differences. Nearly all the Qt Labs QtScript examples now run fine under the Smoke based version. I think these bindings would be the most suitable for Ian's telepathy client, although we would need to implement support for writing plugins in QtScript. -- Richard ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Artur Souza (MoRpHeUz) morph...@openbossa.org wrote: Hey Richard! On Friday 13 November 2009, 07:44 Richard Dale wrote: The QtScript bindings based on the language indpendent Smoke libraries are going well, and I'm not far short of being able to wrap the Plasma apis. Just one question: when this is done, we'll be able to drop the bindings we currently have on kdebase/runtime/plasma/scriptengine/javascript/ ? No I don't thnk so, I think we want a simple javascript api as well as a full C++-like api, and possible another security oriented/sandboxed javascript api too sometime. And this bindings are just for KDE stuff or you plan to use them for Qt stuff too ? They will work fine for any apis that have smoke libs - so both Qt and KDE apis. I don't think they are aimied at scripting C++ apps though, like the Qt Labs bindings can as they use the standard QtScript mechanism for wrapping QObjects. The Smoke based bindings wrap QObjects differently. -- Richard ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
Hi Pekka, On Friday 13 November 2009, 04:32 Pekka Reijula wrote: Our idea allows creation of plasmoids that have qtscript inside to your own plama desktop environment. We can extend plasma in a way that allows user to write own script with for example Kate or download it from http url. The basic idea is that only text is read and script is evaluated. All that you need for this is the qtscript-bindings that for example amarok uses. Maybe I'm not getting what you meant: this is already possible. Plasma supports javascript/qtscript plasmoids. If you put them somewhere like kde-apps.org you will also be able to download them. So, what exactly is your point about enabling plasma to run script plasmoids ? So, maybe I just didn't get what you mean :) Can you explain a little bit more ? What this could offer, would be pretty much the same that the Qt-lively project offers in here: http://lively.cs.tut.fi/qt/videos.html All the widgets can be run also in our system. If you mean running qt lively scripts on plasma, then we have two options: if they are pure javascript or qtscript ones it should work out of the box of even just need some really small work. If they are special in any way, then we should just create a qt lively scriptengine and it will work perfectly (just like we did with google gadgets, edje and OSX). What do you deveopers think? Should plasma be able add these kind of widgets. Or should it be better to just create plasmoid that enables importing this kind of functionality inside. I could upload the plasmoid sources to kde, but I'm not yet a plasma developer. Well, it should be pretty easy to be a plasma/kde developer ;P. But anyway I think that we are closer than you think to support qt lively widgets on plasma. Maybe it already works with just a little amount of work. And as I'm on my creative Friday, maybe I can end the day making this thing work ;) But first I need to understand what I asked above and have access to this widgets. Cheers! -- Artur Duque de Souza openBossa INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia -- Blog: http://blog.morpheuz.cc PGP: 0xDBEEAAC3 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
Hey Richard! On Friday 13 November 2009, 07:44 Richard Dale wrote: The QtScript bindings based on the language indpendent Smoke libraries are going well, and I'm not far short of being able to wrap the Plasma apis. Just one question: when this is done, we'll be able to drop the bindings we currently have on kdebase/runtime/plasma/scriptengine/javascript/ ? And this bindings are just for KDE stuff or you plan to use them for Qt stuff too ? Cheers! -- Artur Duque de Souza openBossa INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia -- Blog: http://blog.morpheuz.cc PGP: 0xDBEEAAC3 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On November 12, 2009, Pekka Reijula wrote: Our idea allows creation of plasmoids that have qtscript inside to your own plama desktop environment. We can extend plasma in a way that allows user to write own script with for example Kate or download it from http url. The basic idea is that only text is read and script is evaluated. All that you need for this is the qtscript-bindings that for example amarok uses. the question is this: do these plasmoids need the full Qt API? if so, then they are inherently untrustable from a security perspective, though that's not necessarily a bad thing. it just means that you don't want to be loading these things from people and places you don't implicitly trust. it would also mean that you are looking for Smoke bindings that Richard mentioned. if there is specific API in addition to the 'standard' Simplified JavaScript API currently provided in the javascript AppletScriptEngine, then if that specific API is offered as a QScriptEngine extension, it can be loaded given enough permission/trust is bestowed on that plasmoid (e.g. by a valid gpg signature that is trusted by the user). the other day i added support for two properties in the .desktop metadata file of a plasmoid: X-Plasma-RequiredExtensions and X-Plasma-OptionalExtensions these are both string lists and can be used to load QScriptEngine extensions upon request. a security sandbox is being established around this mechanism, so it should be reasonably safe. I could upload the plasmoid sources to kde, but I'm not yet a plasma developer. if you get a kde svn account you can upload them to playground quite easily: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Get_a_SVN_Account -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Aaron J. Seigo ase...@kde.org wrote: On November 10, 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: Ok from talking more in IRC, it sounds like the idea is to have GPG signing of qtscript plasmoids, and then allow them to use the features they ask for. Unlike with C++, it can really be enforced that they only use the features they declare they need. right; which is one of the big benefits imho of using scripting. Amarok just added GPG signing for its scripts, I don't think its a big deal to add this. is this something that could be put into Plasma::Package and used by Amarok from there? would be great to share this code. Amarok scripts don't have much to do with plasmoids, so no not really. If we wanted to share code it would have to be in the form of some sort of kdelibs package signing library. But I'm not sure it makes sense to abstract QCA, it doesn't take much code. Ian ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Monday 09 November 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) QtScript apidocs are generated in Qt labs project qtscriptgenerator. My situation is that I want to write a full chat solution in a qtscript plasmoid using the QtScript Telepathy bindings I wrote. (I'm guessing a dataengine or service for buddy presence and chatting would be pretty crazy right?) We have created couple of soulutions where this kind of importing bindings is possible, so I'm more than a willing to start a discussion how to proceed with this kind of ideas in plasma. Our idea allows creation of plasmoids that have qtscript inside to your own plama desktop environment. We can extend plasma in a way that allows user to write own script with for example Kate or download it from http url. The basic idea is that only text is read and script is evaluated. All that you need for this is the qtscript-bindings that for example amarok uses. What this could offer, would be pretty much the same that the Qt-lively project offers in here: http://lively.cs.tut.fi/qt/videos.html All the widgets can be run also in our system. What do you deveopers think? Should plasma be able add these kind of widgets. Or should it be better to just create plasmoid that enables importing this kind of functionality inside. I could upload the plasmoid sources to kde, but I'm not yet a plasma developer. -- -- Pekka Reijula -- reij...@gmail.com ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Aaron J. Seigo ase...@kde.org wrote: On November 9, 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. no is correct. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) kdebase/workspace/plasma/design/javascript has a growing body of information. My situation is that I want to write a full chat solution in a qtscript plasmoid using the QtScript Telepathy bindings I wrote. (I'm guessing a dataengine or service for buddy presence and chatting would be pretty crazy right?) a datanengine/service would make it really easy for any widget to access them, but i don't know how well Telepathy would map to that API? It would take a 3 line function to add a loadScriptPlugin. However if you wanted to sandbox QtScript plugins then adding such a function would undo that, since anyone with the qt bindings installed could write files etc. I'm not sure if thats a security goal you have or not. yes, it is a security goal, and yes, such a function would completely destroy any sandboxing. the current idea is to allow sandbox erosion through trust and permission so that such a method could be open to trusted / permitted widgets. this has not been implemented yet as the interest in working on these bindings is low. what is needed is a way for a widget to say here's what i want access to and then, if the script engine deems it appropriate, to add those pieces of API at runtime to the engine. Ok from talking more in IRC, it sounds like the idea is to have GPG signing of qtscript plasmoids, and then allow them to use the features they ask for. Unlike with C++, it can really be enforced that they only use the features they declare they need. Amarok just added GPG signing for its scripts, I don't think its a big deal to add this. Chani already has the .desktop feature declaration in-place for the screensaver plasmoids. I'll checkout kdelibs etc and research this more. Ian ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On November 10, 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: Ok from talking more in IRC, it sounds like the idea is to have GPG signing of qtscript plasmoids, and then allow them to use the features they ask for. Unlike with C++, it can really be enforced that they only use the features they declare they need. right; which is one of the big benefits imho of using scripting. Amarok just added GPG signing for its scripts, I don't think its a big deal to add this. is this something that could be put into Plasma::Package and used by Amarok from there? would be great to share this code. -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) My situation is that I want to write a full chat solution in a qtscript plasmoid using the QtScript Telepathy bindings I wrote. (I'm guessing a dataengine or service for buddy presence and chatting would be pretty crazy right?) It would take a 3 line function to add a loadScriptPlugin. However if you wanted to sandbox QtScript plugins then adding such a function would undo that, since anyone with the qt bindings installed could write files etc. I'm not sure if thats a security goal you have or not. Thanks, Ian ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Monday 09 November 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) well, the current bindings are limited and hand written, just have bindings to the principal (and safest) Applet methods, dataengines, layouts and te widgets in libplasma.. i don't know if it would be even desired to load random plugins, since we want them to be secure (at least attempting to be) but yeah, complete bindings would be needed as a completely separate script engine :) My situation is that I want to write a full chat solution in a qtscript plasmoid using the QtScript Telepathy bindings I wrote. (I'm guessing a dataengine or service for buddy presence and chatting would be pretty crazy right?) and that would be a good use case for those fantomatic bindings, even wicked cool :D Cheers, Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Marco Martin notm...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 09 November 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) well, the current bindings are limited and hand written, just have bindings to the principal (and safest) Applet methods, dataengines, layouts and te widgets in libplasma.. i don't know if it would be even desired to load random plugins, since we want them to be secure (at least attempting to be) but yeah, complete bindings would be needed as a completely separate script engine :) I don't want complete bindings, I just want my Telepathy binding + the hand written bindings (though I suppose its possible that my opinion will change). :) Any suggestions for how I should proceed then? I'm a big C++ fan so that could work. Ian ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: can qtscript plasmoids load C++ qtscript plugins
On November 9, 2009, Ian Monroe wrote: I suspect the answer to the subject is no since I haven't found a mention of a method to do it. no is correct. But I also haven't found comprehensive QtScript API docs. :) kdebase/workspace/plasma/design/javascript has a growing body of information. My situation is that I want to write a full chat solution in a qtscript plasmoid using the QtScript Telepathy bindings I wrote. (I'm guessing a dataengine or service for buddy presence and chatting would be pretty crazy right?) a datanengine/service would make it really easy for any widget to access them, but i don't know how well Telepathy would map to that API? It would take a 3 line function to add a loadScriptPlugin. However if you wanted to sandbox QtScript plugins then adding such a function would undo that, since anyone with the qt bindings installed could write files etc. I'm not sure if thats a security goal you have or not. yes, it is a security goal, and yes, such a function would completely destroy any sandboxing. the current idea is to allow sandbox erosion through trust and permission so that such a method could be open to trusted / permitted widgets. this has not been implemented yet as the interest in working on these bindings is low. what is needed is a way for a widget to say here's what i want access to and then, if the script engine deems it appropriate, to add those pieces of API at runtime to the engine. -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
