Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[John Bartley]

Been using https://www.gandi.net/en-US/domain/email for a couple of
decades for email forwards. They do offer forwarding an entire
domain's emails and many other services.
-- --
73/Best regards de John Bartley K7AAY  CN85oj  503-227-8539  j...@503bartley.com

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Tomas Kuchta]

>
> .

I use fastmail for my own email/domain. It gives me single email box for
$5/month with unlimited number of email address aliases to that single
email box + calendar + a few GB of storage.

I am pretty happy with fastmail. It just works and I do not need to worry
about trust and spam filtering on my own email server. Single mbox makes it
pretty expensive, but that is what it is.

I migrated to fastmail from my own email server managed by now defunct The
Helm. That was pretty awesome, but is no longer.

I also talk to gmail using IMAP in Gnome's Evolution email client. I guess
that it uses Oauth to authenticate, because I do not need to do 2FA. That
works pretty well, I run the client 365/24 storing all email locally, that
way I do not need to keep it in gmail forever. I typically keep only last
12 months in gmail, so that I can use it in phone as well as in browser
effectively.

Hope that helps, - T

>

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

I looked at pobox and their forwarding has a limit of number of addresses they 
forward to so it
Isn't actually true wildcard domain forwarding.

That is you can't tell them "forward  *@wonkulator.com to a mailbox"

If you could do that then you could literally put a company with 500 users 
behind them.

I don't see how you can have them "forward to your own mailserver" unless you 
define your
Own mailserver as "mailserver that only handles X number of addresses"

With ANY kind of these forwarding schemes the real issue is incoming mail 
terminates on the
Mailservice's server.  Thus, the only effective spamfiltering that is available 
can be done there.
You also can't attack spammers by tarpitting their mules and so on.

It's the spamfiltering these days that is the expensive part in my experience.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Kevin Williams
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 1:15 PM
To: plug 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

I second the recommendation for Fastmail, as well as POBox.

Features of both:
- No ads and no scraping emails for "relevant" ads
- You can use your own domain name or theirs (you don't have to have a custom 
domain)

They also have these advantages over Protonmail
- Works with any imap email client (Protonmail's paid plan requires a Bridge 
app for Thunderbird. etc)
- Doesn't have known/deliberate issues sending/receiving email to mailing lists 
or other cases where the from address is legitimately changed

https://fastmail.com - I use their $5/mo plan for me, and $3/mo plan for my 
wife while I start the long process to migrate away from gmail.

https://pobox.com - Their $50/yr plan includes hosting your mail for you. The 
lower plans only Forward mail to your own mail server. I'm looking to add them 
alongside Fastmail with a second custom domain so that I don't have all my eggs 
on one basket.


On Sat, May 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: PLUG  On Behalf Of MC_Sequoia
> Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 11:08 AM
> To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider
> 
> 
> >Protonmail doesn't support POP / IMAP client connections but it's Ad-free, 
> >they do have free accounts, I use one, >but they're also an organization 
> >very much worthy of supporting with a paid subscription. 
> 
> According to their site they only don't support POP/IMAP for free accounts.
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Kevin Williams]

I second the recommendation for Fastmail, as well as POBox.

Features of both:
- No ads and no scraping emails for "relevant" ads
- You can use your own domain name or theirs (you don't have to have a custom 
domain)

They also have these advantages over Protonmail
- Works with any imap email client (Protonmail's paid plan requires a Bridge 
app for Thunderbird. etc)
- Doesn't have known/deliberate issues sending/receiving email to mailing lists 
or other cases where the from address is legitimately changed

https://fastmail.com - I use their $5/mo plan for me, and $3/mo plan for my 
wife while I start the long process to migrate away from gmail.

https://pobox.com - Their $50/yr plan includes hosting your mail for you. The 
lower plans only Forward mail to your own mail server. I'm looking to add them 
alongside Fastmail with a second custom domain so that I don't have all my eggs 
on one basket.


On Sat, May 6, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: PLUG  On Behalf Of MC_Sequoia
> Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 11:08 AM
> To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider
> 
> 
> >Protonmail doesn't support POP / IMAP client connections but it's Ad-free, 
> >they do have free accounts, I use one, >but they're also an organization 
> >very much worthy of supporting with a paid subscription. 
> 
> According to their site they only don't support POP/IMAP for free accounts.
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 

Re: [PLUG] Zoneminder server build instructions

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Chuck Hast
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 7:50 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Zoneminder server build instructions

>> It always shocks me how poor "home security" video is that gets posted 
>> on TV news clips.  A brand new RLC 820A 8MP fixed cam is $72 off 
>> Amazon.  A "name brand" Axis 2MP cam used runs around $35.  You can 
>> get 10-packs of Ethernet-to-CCTV PoE coax baluns for around $35 off 
>> Ebay so even if you have an "old school" coax setup you can switch it 
>> over to IP cameras really cheaply and a used 2MP Axis IP cam is 4 times 
>> better than a CCTV D1 cam.
>>
>Yes and what they charge for those pieces of crap is shear highway robbery. 

Which pieces of crap, the RLC 820A or the used Axis 2MP cams?

A fixed cam is a fixed cam is a fixed cam, every one of them out there on the 
market uses the same CCD made by the same maker in China and cheap plastic 
optics, and that is the only thing that is really worth anything inside the cam.

If you buy an Axis Q6075-SE (which I have done so) then the manufacturer does 
spend some money on the PTZ gears and you will get real ground glass optics but 
otherwise most IP cams are the same.

SV3C sells a 5MP Dome D05POE-5MP for $50, Reolink sells a 5MP Dome RLC-520A for 
the same price, so I'm really not sure what you are terming pieces of crap.  
Axis or Reolink?  And "they" on a used cam are the Fleabay maggots, not Axis.  
I did say the Axis stuff is "name brand" and anyone buying cams should know 
"name brand = extra $$$"  My feeling is once the laggards still selling new 2MP 
cams (like SV3C is doing) quit doing it the Fleabay maggots will unload their 
2MP cams whether they say Axis on them or not for next to nothing.  Frankly I 
see no difference between a used 2MP Axis cam from a Fleabay maggot who is just 
sitting on them like a hen on eggs and a new SV3c 2MP cam - both are obsolete 
tech and nobody should be selling a 2MP fixed cam for more than $10-$15 unless 
it's got a telephoto lens as long as my pecker attached to it LOL.

Today I wouldn't buy a 2MP cam from anyone, either SV3C or Reolink and I won't 
buy a 5MP cam either, I don't see that SV3C has an 8MP dome offering yet, 
although maybe they intend on releasing a 12MP offering for $120 since that 
seems to be the sweet spot.  The cost is in the time and energy mounting the 
cam the cam cost is small in comparison so spend the extra $50 and get the 
highest MP you can find.  You can certainly elect to record at a lower 
resolution if you want.

I have zero use for motion-detection in the cam, it's all proprietary and only 
seems to work if the cam is set to record to flash or intended for cloud use.  
Why pay more for that?

And while PTZ is "kewel" I have better things to do than spend all day in front 
of a monitor swiping around a PTZ security camera.   And I did explain the 
limitations of "follow me" tech in security work during the presentation, the 
cams are easily distracted if the perp uses an accomplice and cases the place 
out.  Fixed dome or bullet with a lot of cams is the way to go.

>Somewhere back in ZM history is a piece by a guy in the UK, he had some guy 
>speeding through the subdivision (Estate >for them) he lived in, they tried to 
>get him caught but they never were, he already had ZM running so he wrote some 
>>code and setup a second camera was able to catch the plate on the vehicle and 
>provide the speed by doing speed calcs >between the two cameras. According to 
>him the cops used the video data to nab the guy.

Yeah that probably works in the UK but here a good lawyer could hire an expert 
witness who would demonstrate how easy it would have been for the ZM guy to 
make the second cam say whatever time he wanted and produce whatever speed he 
wanted so I kind of doubt the veracity of that story.   Plus it would have been 
just as good to just get video of the speeder, measure out landmarks on the 
road, then calculate the speed using frame rate from a single cam using the 
frame to frame time index in the video stream and compare where the car was in 
each frame.

Just as easy and accurate technologically and harder to discredit in a court, 
but it sounds more sexy to say you used 2 cams.  Sigh.  

>Yes everyone I have set up on ZM does not want anything else, and it allows 
>them to buy different cams for different >applications, I know a fellow that 
>uses his ZM also to collect bird video in his yard. I have a WX cam setup 
>facing SW the >direction we get bad weather from, just to monitor what is 
>coming from that direction.

Actually there's a number of "free" and commercial Windows programs from 
manufacturers that do allow use of different cams.  I just think the stability 
of a Linux or FreeBSD server is superior to Windows.   Especially today when 
Microsoft seems to believe that Windows's purpose is to collect telemetry for 
Microsoft and send it back to them for marketing

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of MC_Sequoia
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 11:08 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider


>Protonmail doesn't support POP / IMAP client connections but it's Ad-free, 
>they do have free accounts, I use one, >but they're also an organization very 
>much worthy of supporting with a paid subscription. 

According to their site they only don't support POP/IMAP for free accounts.

Ted

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

But it's known that they scan email to scrape marketing data from it.   That's 
why when you use the webinterface to gmail all your popups now start showing 
advertisements for topics you cover in your email.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of wes
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 11:42 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 11:08 AM MC_Sequoia  wrote:

>
> Gmail has Ads.
>
>
gmail does not serve ads via imap.

-wes

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

The issue with Gmail is they are now mandating 2FA even on IMAP access so you 
have to have a phone and I think maybe a smartphone.  They also have this 
online 2Fa thingie that if you "join" your windows box into their service that 
might work.

If you are able to access a brand new Gmail account vi IMAP from a pure Linux 
system that is NOT running Thunderbird, OR is running an OLD version of Tbird, 
then tell us how you do it if you CAN do it (T-bird has added in Google's 2Fa 
stuff it's not pure IMAP/POP3 authentication anymore)

OAuth2 doesn't just require "some changes" it requires fundamental changes such 
as scrapping out a lot of email clients like Eudora that worked perfectly.

Explain it's just "some changes" to my mother who was mightily pissed off when 
that happened

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of bro...@netgate.net
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 7:39 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider


I would suggest a (paid) gmail account. You can access it using IMAP:

 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78892?hl=en

It's inexpensive (I think I pay $6 a month). No ads, built-in spam and virus, 
awesome webmail intereface (if you ever need it), lots of storage.

FYI: Microsoft and Google are phasing out Basic Authentication (username + 
password) for Modern Authentication (OAuth2). That might require some changes 
on your end.

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[wes]

On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 11:08 AM MC_Sequoia  wrote:

>
> Gmail has Ads.
>
>
gmail does not serve ads via imap.

-wes

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[MC_Sequoia]

Wishing to avoid ads, I specified "paid" in the subject line.

There are very good free email providers that are Ad-free that are also worth 
supporting with a paid subscription.

Two of the top of my head are Fastmail and Mailfence:

https://mailfence.com/

https://www.fastmail.com/

"Richard,

How about gmail? Or proton mail ?"

Gmail has Ads. 

Protonmail doesn't support POP / IMAP client connections but it's Ad-free, they 
do have free accounts, I use one, but they're also an organization very much 
worthy of supporting with a paid subscription. 

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[brooks]

I would suggest a (paid) gmail account. You can access it using IMAP:

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78892?hl=en

It's inexpensive (I think I pay $6 a month). No ads, built-in spam and 
virus, awesome webmail intereface (if you ever need it), lots of 
storage.


FYI: Microsoft and Google are phasing out Basic Authentication 
(username + password) for Modern Authentication (OAuth2). That might 
require some changes on your end.

Re: [PLUG] Zoneminder server build instructions

[Chuck Hast]

See comments below:

On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 11:27 AM Ted Mittelstaedt 
wrote:

> Both presentations were recorded and I think Michael has them.
>
Will pull them.

>
> Check at the bottom of my instructions for the chown command - I believe
> the way that the API works that zmninja uses is that zmninja writes out
> window configs to a settings file via that API and the webserver has to be
> able to write to a location to save those.  The latest installs of apache
> run httpd under a non-privileged user while that location that the zm
> install creates is owned by root thus the webserver can't save the settings
> there.   That might be your problem.
>
Will have to check it out, all of the other installations work with ZMN
just fine. I set the horizontal number of screens and it sticks. Just this
one.

> It always shocks me how poor "home security" video is that gets posted on
> TV news clips.  A brand new RLC 820A 8MP fixed cam is $72 off Amazon.  A
> "name brand" Axis 2MP cam used runs around $35.  You can get 10-packs of
> Ethernet-to-CCTV PoE coax baluns for around $35 off Ebay so even if you
> have an "old school" coax setup you can switch it over to IP cameras really
> cheaply and a used 2MP Axis IP cam is 4 times better than a CCTV D1 cam.
>
Yes and what they charge for those pieces of crap is shear
highway robbery. I have been using SV3C cameras (they
keep on sending me free samples to test B-] ) Same thing
I run them on an isolated network that only ZM has access
to. That way they cannot call home. But I use all kinds of
cams as long as I can get to the video source.

Somewhere back in ZM history is a piece by a guy in
the UK, he had some guy speeding through the subdivision
(Estate for them) he lived in, they tried to get him caught but
they never were, he already had ZM running so he wrote some
code and setup a second camera was able to catch the plate
on the vehicle and provide the speed by doing speed calcs
between the two cameras. According to him the cops used
the video data to nab the guy.

>
> The only reason people don't do it is sheer laziness because they then
> have to switch out the DVR for a modern NVR and using ZM that's cheap, too
> particularly since we are awash in cheap used pre-Nehalem CPU PCs thanks to
> Microsoft forcing it with Win 11.
>
Yes everyone I have set up on ZM does not want anything
else, and it allows them to buy different cams for different
applications, I know a fellow that uses his ZM also to collect
bird video in his yard. I have a WX cam setup facing SW
the direction we get bad weather from, just to monitor what
is coming from that direction.

>
> Did they catch the perp?

Yes, it was not hard. We had the jeep his fat tattooed  arm and
the left rear tail light was inop

The best part was when the sheriff deputy told me the video
was the best home NVR video he had ever seen. And since
I was able to give it to them in jpg screens also, they had
some software that was able to enhance it. That is why they
came back and asked for more.

I will pull the videos and check those

> >

Have a great weekend there. Again great info on ZM.

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Ben Koenig]

--- Original Message ---
On Saturday, May 6th, 2023 at 6:44 AM, Rich Shepard  
wrote:


> On Sat, 6 May 2023, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > Though I live in SW Missouri, I've followed this list for years. My
> > current provider is terminating email service soon. I run SeaMonkey on
> > Debian. Wishing to avoid ads, I specified "paid" in the subject line.
> 
> 
> Richard,
> 
> How about gmail? Or proton mail https://proton.me/mail?
> 
> 
> Rich

FYI protonmail has issues with mailing list compatibility. PLUG being a perfect 
 example. While yes you technically pay in $$$ they still run their Support 
center like it's Microsoft. 

-Ben

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Well it's worth mentioning that the Windows way of doing this is to run 
Mailwasher Free, then use your free ISP email account.  Mailwasher downloads 
the mail from the ISP via POP3 then scans it and removes all the spam then 
delivers it to your Outlook or Thunderbird or whatever email program you use.

Proton mail looks good but their downside is their free offering is webbased 
only.

Why not just put up your own email server?  Since you are willing to pay for it 
just do what I do and pay for a static IP and you are off to the races.  Then 
you can do exactly what you want.  You can also run a VPN server to be able to 
remote into your computer when you are travelling, etc.

Alternatively, I have a friend that runs their own mailserver on a dynamic IP  
(residential account)

They run a router,firewall that I setup for them that goes to a dynamic DNS 
service which assigns a DNS name to the dynamic IP on the outside of their 
router

Since their cable provider blocks incoming port 25 I relay incoming email from 
one of my mailservers to theirs on port 2525.  Then their router port forwards 
2525 to port 25 on their server.   They run some spamfiltering but it's a lot 
harder to filter when you don't see the source IP of the incoming connection.

Ted

-Original Message-
From: PLUG  On Behalf Of Richard Owlett
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 6:07 AM
To: Portland Linux/Unix Group 
Subject: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

Though I live in SW Missouri, I've followed this list for years.
My current provider is terminating email service soon.
I run SeaMonkey on Debian.
Wishing to avoid ads, I specified "paid" in the subject line.

I've found services that seem generally suitable, *BUT*
   -- one requires existence of a mobile phone account
  I don't have a smartphone due to vision problems
   -- another { catering to small businesses} needs a custom domain
  I don't under the ramifications of creating a domain

In one sense, privacy/security is not a major issue as >90% of my usage is 
"public" mailing lists such as this or tech oriented Usenet groups.

Suggestions/guidance please.
TIA

Re: [PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Rich Shepard]

On Sat, 6 May 2023, Richard Owlett wrote:


Though I live in SW Missouri, I've followed this list for years. My
current provider is terminating email service soon. I run SeaMonkey on
Debian. Wishing to avoid ads, I specified "paid" in the subject line.


Richard,

How about gmail? Or proton mail ?

Rich

[PLUG] Looking for a paid POP/IMAP email provider

[Richard Owlett]

Though I live in SW Missouri, I've followed this list for years.
My current provider is terminating email service soon.
I run SeaMonkey on Debian.
Wishing to avoid ads, I specified "paid" in the subject line.

I've found services that seem generally suitable, *BUT*
  -- one requires existence of a mobile phone account
 I don't have a smartphone due to vision problems
  -- another { catering to small businesses} needs a custom domain
 I don't under the ramifications of creating a domain

In one sense, privacy/security is not a major issue as >90% of my usage 
is "public" mailing lists such as this or tech oriented Usenet groups.


Suggestions/guidance please.
TIA