Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Rich Shepard]

On Sat, 12 May 2018, Dave Lien - W7DAL wrote:

Thanks for the comments. I came up the same route with Red Hat, Mandrake, 
SUSE, Slackware and a dozen others along the way. But currently recommend 
MINT to newbies since it is hassle-free to install and update, looks a lot 
like windows (yea I know...) and meets the needs of almost everyone at that 
end of the learning curve. Their needs are simple and straightforward.


Dave,

  I first used fvwm2 as the linux X window manager; it was too much like M$
and I quickly found Xfce which I've used since then. For me, computers are
tools: means to an end, not an end in themselves.

  Slackware installations and upgrades continue to be 'hassle-free' as long
as one reads and follows the directions.

I still miss the command line days of MSDOS and LDOS so relate to those who 
prefer it in Linux.


  Having used 80-column Hollerith punch cards for S/360 FORTRAN code and JCL
(Job Control Language) system commands, punched tape on DEC VAXes, and the
command line on Primes and other mini-computers it's more efficient for me
(a touch-typist thanks to Army Intelligence School training during the
Vietnam war).


But the overwhelming percent of Linux users are probably looking for the
simplest and most effective way to get their job done with the least
amount of hassle.


  This can be the command line or the graphical interface. Both are
effective and likely depend more on how one grew up. Those too young to have
used typewriters (electric or manual) and know only their pocket computers
(a/k/a 'smartphones') prefer pictures. Each to their own taste. Linux offers
choices (sometimes too many) whereas Microsoft and Apple offer none to a
few.


Now that there is lots of relevant high-volume end user software available
IMHO that's the only way Linux will accelerate its acceptance...


  I think this holds true regardless of the underlying system distribution.
On many end-user mail lists (e.g., GnuCash) the most cries for help come
from those running some flavor of windoze or a ubuntu. I've a friend who
knows very little about computers but she's been running Slackware with Xfce
on her laptops for many years now. Of course, this makes it real easy for me
to keep it upgraded and security patched. Virtually every issue she
encounters comes from the the fingers on top of the keyboard, not the system
itself.

Carpe weekend,

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Dave Lien - W7DAL]

Rich-

Thanks for the comments. I came up the same route with Red Hat, 
Mandrake, SUSE, Slackware and a dozen others along the way. But 
currently recommend MINT to newbies since it is hassle-free to install 
and update, looks a lot like windows (yea I know...) and meets the needs 
of almost everyone at that end of the learning curve. Their needs are 
simple and straightforward.


I still miss the command line days of MSDOS and LDOS so relate to those 
who prefer it in Linux. But the overwhelming percent of Linux users are 
probably looking for the simplest and most effective way to get their 
job done with the least amount of hassle. Now that there is lots of 
relevant high-volume end user software available IMHO that's the only 
way Linux will accelerate its acceptance...


Best ... Dave.


On 5/12/2018 5:57 AM, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Fri, 11 May 2018, Dave Lien - W7DAL wrote:

QUESTION: What is so unique about some of the other old major Linux 
lines

that make them so important to some users? Or is is mostly a matter of
habit and not wanting to change?


Dave,

  Starting in 1997 I ran Red Hat 4.0 through 7.0 but tired of the upgrade
dependencies hassles. In 2003 I switched to Slackware-8.0 and have no 
need

nor interest in changing. There are many reasons for my decision. Some of
them are:

  - Stays way back from the bleeding edge for all system components,
    including the kernel.

  - Provides complete, unmodified kernels; no distribution-specific 
tweaks.


  - All tool and application packages are complete. That is, there is no
    separate 'dev' package with header files and whatever else not 
included

    in the base package.

  - Runs on everything from Atom processors to IBM S/90 mainframes (which
    affects me at only the desktop/portable level). Supports both 32- and
    64-bit processors.

  - Can be installed on servers without the X Window System.

  - The distribution is complete as an operating system and hundreds of
    additional files are available from www.slackbuilds.org all in the 
same

    tarball format as the files on the distribution DVD.

  - Great support on linuxquestions.org.

  - Just works(TM), and easy to use for those of us who favor a CLI 
over a

    GUI.

HTH,

Rich

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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Dave Lien - W7DAL]

TNX Wayne. I follow Distrowatch from time to time and just downloaded 
manjaro which is the current favorite. Am installing it now to see what 
all the noise is about. -Dave.



On 5/11/2018 7:14 PM, Wayne van Loon wrote:
Here  is a link to 
DistroWatch's top 10 distros where you can read their take on a few 
old line distros including Slackware that is being discussed here.

Wayne


On 05/11/2018 06:55 PM, Dave Lien - W7DAL wrote:

Let me ask a simple minded question:

I've been running Linux for maybe 20 years. Nothing fancy, office 
apps mostly, and went through all the early update struggles, etc. 
Played with virtually every version along the way eventually settling 
on Ubuntu until that silly debacle. Then cut over to MINT which does 
everything I want and more. Also I note that MINT was the most 
downloaded version for years until recently. There must be a reason?


QUESTION: What is so unique about some of the other old major Linux 
lines that make them so important to some users? Or is is mostly a 
matter of habit and not wanting to change?


TNX. Dave.


On 5/11/2018 6:21 PM, King Beowulf wrote:

On 05/10/2018 09:06 PM, elcaseti wrote:
The fact that Slackware is still using KDE4 is very appealing to 
me.  My
command line skills are not at the Slackware level, but I bet I can 
find a
Slackware-based distro that is more to my liking that's still using 
KDE4.


Too bad Slax moved away from KDE.  I used to use Slax for certain 
simple
tasks.  I might still use Slax for some things, & I don't mind that 
it's

switched to a Debian base, but it's not going to be my main distro.

It seems like Vector is not a very active project anymore. I tried KDE
Neon about a year ago, & found it to have quite a few broken 
things.  I
might even try Gecko KDE Plasma, since I've not really given 
OpenSuse much

of a chance.


The following Slackware derived distros with available KDE are still
active. I haven't used them in a while (I always go back to the pure
source), but they track the Slackware core pretty closely while adding
ease of use features.  Most Slackware derivatives are tweaked, "trimmed
down" to reduce memory and hard drive space.

Zenwalk: http://zenwalk.org/
XFCE is the default, with KDE available via their package manager.
Binary compatible with may other Slackware package sources.

Salix: https://www.salixos.org/
XFCE is the default, with KDE available via their package manager.
Binary compatible with may other Slackware package sources.

Porteus: http://www.porteus.org/
Started out as a community remix of SLAX.  Packages consist of modules
and can be installed and run from USB flash drive, flash card or CD
(live distro) or hard drive. There are utilities to convert Slackware
packages into installable modules.  It is designed to be portable. They
do recommend Slackware if you want to install a full uncompressed
version to an internal hard drive.




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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Wayne van Loon]

Here  is a link to 
DistroWatch's top 10 distros where you can read their take on a few old 
line distros including Slackware that is being discussed here.

Wayne


On 05/11/2018 06:55 PM, Dave Lien - W7DAL wrote:

Let me ask a simple minded question:

I've been running Linux for maybe 20 years. Nothing fancy, office apps 
mostly, and went through all the early update struggles, etc. Played 
with virtually every version along the way eventually settling on 
Ubuntu until that silly debacle. Then cut over to MINT which does 
everything I want and more. Also I note that MINT was the most 
downloaded version for years until recently. There must be a reason?


QUESTION: What is so unique about some of the other old major Linux 
lines that make them so important to some users? Or is is mostly a 
matter of habit and not wanting to change?


TNX. Dave.


On 5/11/2018 6:21 PM, King Beowulf wrote:

On 05/10/2018 09:06 PM, elcaseti wrote:
The fact that Slackware is still using KDE4 is very appealing to 
me.  My
command line skills are not at the Slackware level, but I bet I can 
find a
Slackware-based distro that is more to my liking that's still using 
KDE4.


Too bad Slax moved away from KDE.  I used to use Slax for certain 
simple
tasks.  I might still use Slax for some things, & I don't mind that 
it's

switched to a Debian base, but it's not going to be my main distro.

It seems like Vector is not a very active project anymore.  I tried KDE
Neon about a year ago, & found it to have quite a few broken things.  I
might even try Gecko KDE Plasma, since I've not really given 
OpenSuse much

of a chance.


The following Slackware derived distros with available KDE are still
active. I haven't used them in a while (I always go back to the pure
source), but they track the Slackware core pretty closely while adding
ease of use features.  Most Slackware derivatives are tweaked, "trimmed
down" to reduce memory and hard drive space.

Zenwalk: http://zenwalk.org/
XFCE is the default, with KDE available via their package manager.
Binary compatible with may other Slackware package sources.

Salix: https://www.salixos.org/
XFCE is the default, with KDE available via their package manager.
Binary compatible with may other Slackware package sources.

Porteus: http://www.porteus.org/
Started out as a community remix of SLAX.  Packages consist of modules
and can be installed and run from USB flash drive, flash card or CD
(live distro) or hard drive. There are utilities to convert Slackware
packages into installable modules.  It is designed to be portable. They
do recommend Slackware if you want to install a full uncompressed
version to an internal hard drive.




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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[King Beowulf]

On 05/10/2018 09:06 PM, elcaseti wrote:
> The fact that Slackware is still using KDE4 is very appealing to me.  My
> command line skills are not at the Slackware level, but I bet I can find a
> Slackware-based distro that is more to my liking that's still using KDE4.
> 
> Too bad Slax moved away from KDE.  I used to use Slax for certain simple
> tasks.  I might still use Slax for some things, & I don't mind that it's
> switched to a Debian base, but it's not going to be my main distro.
> 
> It seems like Vector is not a very active project anymore.  I tried KDE
> Neon about a year ago, & found it to have quite a few broken things.  I
> might even try Gecko KDE Plasma, since I've not really given OpenSuse much
> of a chance.
> 

The following Slackware derived distros with available KDE are still
active. I haven't used them in a while (I always go back to the pure
source), but they track the Slackware core pretty closely while adding
ease of use features.  Most Slackware derivatives are tweaked, "trimmed
down" to reduce memory and hard drive space.

Zenwalk: http://zenwalk.org/
XFCE is the default, with KDE available via their package manager.
Binary compatible with may other Slackware package sources.

Salix: https://www.salixos.org/
XFCE is the default, with KDE available via their package manager.
Binary compatible with may other Slackware package sources.

Porteus: http://www.porteus.org/
Started out as a community remix of SLAX.  Packages consist of modules
and can be installed and run from USB flash drive, flash card or CD
(live distro) or hard drive. There are utilities to convert Slackware
packages into installable modules.  It is designed to be portable. They
do recommend Slackware if you want to install a full uncompressed
version to an internal hard drive.




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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[elcaseti]

The fact that Slackware is still using KDE4 is very appealing to me.  My
command line skills are not at the Slackware level, but I bet I can find a
Slackware-based distro that is more to my liking that's still using KDE4.

Too bad Slax moved away from KDE.  I used to use Slax for certain simple
tasks.  I might still use Slax for some things, & I don't mind that it's
switched to a Debian base, but it's not going to be my main distro.

It seems like Vector is not a very active project anymore.  I tried KDE
Neon about a year ago, & found it to have quite a few broken things.  I
might even try Gecko KDE Plasma, since I've not really given OpenSuse much
of a chance.

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Johnathan Mantey 
wrote:

> The amusing part of all of this is I really don't use any advanced features
> of KDE.  I just like the overall look/feel.  I have no idea what
> enhancements Plasma brought to the table.  Mint/XFCE is an ok solution, I'm
> using it for an old laptop with limited RAM.  I just have much more KDE
> familiarity, so I'm loathe to change desktops.
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Ben Koenig  wrote:
>
> > Slackware 14.2 is currently using KDE 4.14. It is very nice but not the
> > latest so if you follow the updates from KDE it might look like stuff is
> > missing :(
> >
> > But there is a contributor for the project that runs the ktown repo for
> > bleeding edge versions of KDE and its dependencies. I don't use it
> myself,
> > but ktown is getting rave reviews.
> >
> > Or you could just go with KDE Neon, which is the closest thing you will
> > get to an official KDE distro.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 05/10/2018 03:08 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 10 May 2018, elcaseti wrote:
> >>
> >> In order to replace Mint KDE, I'm testing various disros that include
> KDE
> >>> plasma 5, or Plasma 4, or Trinity Desktop Environment. TDE is the fork
> of
> >>> KDE3, much like Mate is the fork of Gnome2.
> >>>
> >>
> >>   Slackware comes with KDE as well as Xfce4. Pat Volkerding has always
> >> peferred KDE to Gnome so the former was the default desktop. I've no
> idea
> >> what KDE flavor is included with Slackware-14.2 because I use Xfce4,
> but I
> >> install KDE because other applications use them and they don't consume
> an
> >> unreasonable amount of hard drive space.
> >>
> >>   Perhaps Slackware's KDE flavor will suit your appetite.
> >>
> >> Rich
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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Ben Koenig]

Slackware 14.2 is currently using KDE 4.14. It is very nice but not the 
latest so if you follow the updates from KDE it might look like stuff is 
missing :(


But there is a contributor for the project that runs the ktown repo for 
bleeding edge versions of KDE and its dependencies. I don't use it 
myself, but ktown is getting rave reviews.


Or you could just go with KDE Neon, which is the closest thing you will 
get to an official KDE distro.



On 05/10/2018 03:08 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Thu, 10 May 2018, elcaseti wrote:

In order to replace Mint KDE, I'm testing various disros that include 
KDE
plasma 5, or Plasma 4, or Trinity Desktop Environment. TDE is the 
fork of

KDE3, much like Mate is the fork of Gnome2.


  Slackware comes with KDE as well as Xfce4. Pat Volkerding has always
peferred KDE to Gnome so the former was the default desktop. I've no idea
what KDE flavor is included with Slackware-14.2 because I use Xfce4, 
but I

install KDE because other applications use them and they don't consume an
unreasonable amount of hard drive space.

  Perhaps Slackware's KDE flavor will suit your appetite.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 10 May 2018, elcaseti wrote:


In order to replace Mint KDE, I'm testing various disros that include KDE
plasma 5, or Plasma 4, or Trinity Desktop Environment. TDE is the fork of
KDE3, much like Mate is the fork of Gnome2.


  Slackware comes with KDE as well as Xfce4. Pat Volkerding has always
peferred KDE to Gnome so the former was the default desktop. I've no idea
what KDE flavor is included with Slackware-14.2 because I use Xfce4, but I
install KDE because other applications use them and they don't consume an
unreasonable amount of hard drive space.

  Perhaps Slackware's KDE flavor will suit your appetite.

Rich
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Re: [PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[Johnathan Mantey]

So much for installing a dual boot Mint 18.3 I was about to perform.  At
work I use FC28 with KDE, mainly for bleeding edge, and for libre'ness.  At
home I want something that has better media support.  I'm not a fan of
Gnome, and I've been unable to comprehend Unity (haven't tried that hard
TBH).  Maybe this needs to go into a new thread

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 1:33 PM, elcaseti  wrote:

> Mint is discontinuing their KDE Plasma release.  It's not that they will
> still use KDE apps without Plasma.  They no longer produce a distro that
> includes any aspect of the KDE software project.Here is Mint's blog
> post announcing that they will stop producing a KDE Mint distro:  "
> https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3418;.
>
> In order to replace Mint KDE, I'm testing various disros that include KDE
> plasma 5, or Plasma 4, or Trinity Desktop Environment.  TDE is the fork of
> KDE3, much like Mate is the fork of Gnome2.
>
> As far as I can tell, so far, there is no project to fork KDE Plasma 4.  I
> hope to be proven wrong, as KDE4 is quite nice to use. Forking a desktop
> environment & supporting it for years is a huge undertaking, requiring a
> lot of volunteers and/or paid developers.
>
> So far, I've tried Siduction with KDE Plasma 5, & Knoppix with KDE Plasma
> 5.  In the past, I've tried many different releases of Kubuntu, Manjaro
> with KDE Plasma 5, PCLOS with TDE, EXE GNU/Linux with TDE, Debian with KDE
> Plasma 4, Sabayon with KDE3 & Plasma 4, and a bunch of others I'm
> forgetting at the moment.  None have suited me quite as well as Mint KDE,
> but now that it's dead, that changes the senario.
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[PLUG] The end of Mint KDE edition

[elcaseti]

Mint is discontinuing their KDE Plasma release.  It's not that they will
still use KDE apps without Plasma.  They no longer produce a distro that
includes any aspect of the KDE software project.Here is Mint's blog
post announcing that they will stop producing a KDE Mint distro:  "
https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3418;.

In order to replace Mint KDE, I'm testing various disros that include KDE
plasma 5, or Plasma 4, or Trinity Desktop Environment.  TDE is the fork of
KDE3, much like Mate is the fork of Gnome2.

As far as I can tell, so far, there is no project to fork KDE Plasma 4.  I
hope to be proven wrong, as KDE4 is quite nice to use. Forking a desktop
environment & supporting it for years is a huge undertaking, requiring a
lot of volunteers and/or paid developers.

So far, I've tried Siduction with KDE Plasma 5, & Knoppix with KDE Plasma
5.  In the past, I've tried many different releases of Kubuntu, Manjaro
with KDE Plasma 5, PCLOS with TDE, EXE GNU/Linux with TDE, Debian with KDE
Plasma 4, Sabayon with KDE3 & Plasma 4, and a bunch of others I'm
forgetting at the moment.  None have suited me quite as well as Mint KDE,
but now that it's dead, that changes the senario.
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