Using “return-oriented programming” for Sequoia AVC Advantage Electronic Voting Machine Hacking
Excerpt: Voting machines must remain secure throughout their entire service lifetime, and this study demonstrates how a relatively new programming technique can be used to take control of a voting machine that was designed to resist takeover, but that did not anticipate this new kind of malicious programming, said Hovav Shacham, a professor of computer science at the University of California, San Diego. In 2007, Shacham first described return-oriented programming, which is a powerful systems security exploit that generates malicious behavior by combining short snippets of benign code already present in the system. The new study demonstrates that return-oriented programming can be used to execute vote-stealing computations by taking control of a voting machine designed to prevent code injection. Shacham and UC San Diego computer science Ph.D. student Stephen Checkoway collaborated with researchers from Princeton University and the University of Michigan on this project. The computer scientists had no access to the machine's source code -- or any other proprietary information -- when designing the demonstration attack. By using just the information that would be available to anyone who bought or stole a voting machine, the researchers addressed a common criticism made against voting security researchers: that they enjoy unrealistic access to the systems they study. Based on our understanding of security and computer technology, it looks like paper-based elections are the way to go. Probably the best approach would involve fast optical scanners reading paper ballots. These kinds of paper-based systems are amenable to statistical audits, which is something the election security research community is shifting to, said Shacham. He added that you can actually run a modern and efficient election on paper that does not look like the Florida 2000 Presidential election. If you are using electronic voting machines, you need to have a separate paper record at the very least. To take over the voting machine, the computer scientists found a flaw in its software that could be exploited with return-oriented programming. But before they could find a flaw in the software, they had to reverse engineer the machine's software and its hardware -- without the benefit of source code. from: http://www.ddj.com/security/219200010 Other Links (including description in pdf form): http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090810161902.htm http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~hovav/dist/rop.pdf -- http://www.zazzle.com/windows_tshirt-235022263625777862 (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RedHat Announces 5.3 SpaceWalk Servers
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS125267+02-Sep-2009+BW20090902 Excerpt: Red Hat (NYSE: RHT), the world`s leading provider of open source solutions, today announced the availability of Red Hat Network Satellite 5.3, the latest version of Red Hat's on-premises systems management solution that provides software updates, configuration management, provisioning and monitoring across both physical and virtual Red Hat Enterprise Linux servers. Red Hat Network Satellite 5.3 is globally available today and is automatically delivered to customers with a Red Hat Network Satellite subscription. The availability of Red Hat Network Satellite 5.3 marks the first release based off of the open source project Spacewalk, announced in June 2008. -- http://www.obnosis.com/motivatebytruth/hello-kitty-accessory.jpg (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Linux losing stability?
A very interesting train of thought at http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-is-losing-its-stable-title-33866 -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Terribly OT: do you need a car...
Hey all I know this is probably bad mojo and terribly off topic but I am desperate... My birthday is tomorrow and I am going through a bit of a mid-life crises ( I'm not that old so I will probably die young) anyhow my goal for this birthday was to get a motorcycle and frankly the economy sucks. I put my car up on craigslist as the proceeds from it's sale will allow me to purchase said motorcycle. If you or anyone you know is looking for a car let me know the CL ad is @ http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bar/1356816100.html Sorry for the spam all and thanks for your time... -- James Finstrom --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Terribly OT: do you need a car...
James Finstrom wrote: Hey all I know this is probably bad mojo and terribly off topic but I am desperate... My birthday is tomorrow and I am going through a bit of a mid-life crises ( I'm not that old so I will probably die young) anyhow my goal for this birthday was to get a motorcycle and frankly the economy sucks. I put my car up on craigslist as the proceeds from it's sale will allow me to purchase said motorcycle. If you or anyone you know is looking for a car let me know the CL ad is @ http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bar/1356816100.html Sorry for the spam all and thanks for your time... I've got about 3500$ going for a car right now if you are interested and willing. Give me a call, number's in the sig. -- Ryan Rix (623)-826-0051 Fortune: crop circles in the corn shell http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://identi.ca/phrkonaleash XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and countless other FOSS channels. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Terribly OT: do you need a car...
oh noes.. the price war begins. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Ryan Rixphrkonale...@gmail.com wrote: James Finstrom wrote: Hey all I know this is probably bad mojo and terribly off topic but I am desperate... My birthday is tomorrow and I am going through a bit of a mid-life crises ( I'm not that old so I will probably die young) anyhow my goal for this birthday was to get a motorcycle and frankly the economy sucks. I put my car up on craigslist as the proceeds from it's sale will allow me to purchase said motorcycle. If you or anyone you know is looking for a car let me know the CL ad is @ http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bar/1356816100.html Sorry for the spam all and thanks for your time... I've got about 3500$ going for a car right now if you are interested and willing. Give me a call, number's in the sig. -- Ryan Rix (623)-826-0051 Fortune: crop circles in the corn shell http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://identi.ca/phrkonaleash XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com AIM: phrkonaleash | Yahoo: phrkonaleash IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and countless other FOSS channels. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
it is interesting. although somewhat misnamed... as the Os is not loosing stability but various distributions based on what they are expecting to do... On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Dazed_75lthiels...@gmail.com wrote: A very interesting train of thought at http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-is-losing-its-stable-title-33866 -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
Dazed_75 wrote: A very interesting train of thought at http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-is-losing-its-stable-title-33866 Interesting in that I pointed out some of the very problems as detailed in this article over the last several weeks. Frankly, I've been noticing that linux (whatever distro you feel like going with) hasn't been very stable out of the box and I have had to lay in lots of time to get it working properly. In the case of my room mate (he uses opensuse 11) the settings just simply will not stick (in some cases especially dealing with cups, the service will not remain setup from boot to boot).. I really do expect that once a system is configure, that it will remain stable over the course of its usable life through multiple reboots (barring any excessive problems resulting from broken updates or other user related nonsense). I use windows on my primary machine and OS X on the intel branded machine in the other room. Mind you windows (windows 7) is stable after a fashion, but cannot hold a candle to OS X (unix based OS using a GUI overlay) that works out oif the box and is exceptionally stable. We used to have this kind of stability out of linux (as a vanilla install) up until about 2 years ago. The above is not a rant btw, its an observation based on my nearly continual use of all three OS'es involved (OS X, windows ,any flavor and linux any flavor). Now, I do offer my services to repair problems in windows on a daily basis (house calls, drop off's, etc) and every once in a long while I see a problem with a mac based machine (very rare these) and recently, I've been having to troubleshoot some linux issues as well. Windows and OS X are fairly easy to deal with (depending on the problem), Linux, not so. My prices tend to reflect this (the more difficult the problem, the more it costs to resolve it). Anyway, the point is, I have seen a degradation in linux stability for longer than a couple of years (and it doesn't look like its improving with time either). I think, perhaps, its time that the linux community starting putting the screws to those in charge and state (bluntly): you have some problems to fix, so FIX them! Those of us out here in the field don't want to hear about the office politics or who did what and how. we just want the problems resolved in the mopst expedient manner possible with the best possible results (because, frankly, I'd rather be enjoying my time using the technology, not having to fix all the bloody errors generated from someone not properly coding in the first place). just my thoughts. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Terribly OT: do you need a car...
First thing: I strongly recommend you separate out the deals for the
car and bike. The car should go fairly quickly as a lot of used
wheels were recently taken off the market.
As to a bike, I'd look at the Suzuki Intruder 800 first. They made
the same bike for over a decade, the oldest ones will be 750s and if
in good shape, nothing wrong with that. Better handling and engine
than the Yamaha VX series equivalents.
DO NOT go for a high-performance 4-cylinder sportbike as your first
ride. Price the insurance on that - absolutely huge for a new
middle-age rider. That's the insurance company's way of saying dude,
I hope your will is up to date!.
BIG issue: do you know how to ride yet? Do you know what
counter-steering is? If you don't, and you get out on that road,
there's a real good chance you're going to die no matter what the
bike. That would be about as dumb as strapping on an Indy car and
going wheel to wheel at full speed without knowing what you're doing -
and no, I am *not* exaggerating.
The learning curve will be easier if you already know how to drive a
stick-shift car. Learning what a clutch is at the same time you're
learning bikes is a bad thing.
My sole wheels are a motorcycle ('97 Buell S3 Thunderbolt, heavily
modded) as has been the case for just about 20 years now. Haven't
owned a single car in all that time. Used to street race when I was
young and dumb :). I *know* what I'm talkin' about. I also taught
one of the TFUGers to ride :).
Jim
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Re: Terribly OT: do you need a car...
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Jim March1.jim.ma...@gmail.com wrote:
First thing: I strongly recommend you separate out the deals for the
car and bike. The car should go fairly quickly as a lot of used
wheels were recently taken off the market.
As to a bike, I'd look at the Suzuki Intruder 800 first. They made
the same bike for over a decade, the oldest ones will be 750s and if
in good shape, nothing wrong with that. Better handling and engine
than the Yamaha VX series equivalents.
DO NOT go for a high-performance 4-cylinder sportbike as your first
ride. Price the insurance on that - absolutely huge for a new
middle-age rider. That's the insurance company's way of saying dude,
I hope your will is up to date!.
BIG issue: do you know how to ride yet? Do you know what
counter-steering is? If you don't, and you get out on that road,
there's a real good chance you're going to die no matter what the
bike. That would be about as dumb as strapping on an Indy car and
going wheel to wheel at full speed without knowing what you're doing -
and no, I am *not* exaggerating.
The learning curve will be easier if you already know how to drive a
stick-shift car. Learning what a clutch is at the same time you're
learning bikes is a bad thing.
My sole wheels are a motorcycle ('97 Buell S3 Thunderbolt, heavily
modded) as has been the case for just about 20 years now. Haven't
owned a single car in all that time. Used to street race when I was
young and dumb :). I *know* what I'm talkin' about. I also taught
one of the TFUGers to ride :).
Oh! Can I have a ride?
Jim
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Re: Linux losing stability?
What a load of horse puckey! Silly, silly, silly, silly! On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Dazed_75lthiels...@gmail.com wrote: A very interesting train of thought at http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-is-losing-its-stable-title-33866 -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
BlenderCAD Dev. - Int. Online Mtng
Hey guys, The next official international online meeting is on Sept. 19, 2009, @ Noon, MST. (Normal day, time, and place.) Here are a few things that will probably be on the agenda. website content and layout website improvements needed website hosting of our source code project feature list project documentation distribution of website roles ttyl - MatthewMPP P.S. - http://plug.phoenix.az.us/event/2009/09/19/day --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
Dazed_75 wrote: A very interesting train of thought at http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-is-losing-its-stable-title-33866 -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson My experience with linux (since RH9) has been a perception of steady improvement, and I have a few problems with the article. The author fails to differentiate between stable and bleeding edge releases, something that the 3 leading linux distros provide for. The author also fails to point out (or realize) that linux's reputation for stability has been achieved on servers and embedded devices, not desktops and notebooks. The author also fails to name any problem specifically (which automatic service setup processes is he talking about?), with the exception of Ubuntu's network manager. My experience with that has been that it didn't work very well before Hardy, but in Hardy it works fine. I hear that there have been problems with network manager enhancements in subsequent releases, but I think that's to be expected given that Hardy is the most recent LTS (stable) release. Yes, there are still a few kinks to work out with linux on desktops. I think that various (desktop) instabilities are due to being on the bleeding edge, with features that have never existed in stable releases. BL, I don't think that the author is seeing the whole picture, which leads him to a false conclusion. At the same time however, more consistency and standardization across distros wouldn't hurt. ;) -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Lisa Kacholdlisakach...@obnosis.com wrote: What a load of horse puckey! Silly, silly, silly, silly! Well...not entirely. He uses Network Manager and it's WiFi setup as one example. And I'm afraid he's right, or at least he was. Network Manager 7.x series as used in Ubuntu Intrepid and Jaunty was a mess. Debian refused to go there even in Sid and with good reason. The release candidate 8 code found in Karmic is much more solid. We've also had a period of time lately when the GUI stack was in flux. Jaunty shipped with badly screwed up Intel drivers for example - it got about half of the upstream kernel/xorg/mesa/Intel parts it needed and a VERY good case can be made that it should have been delayed. Karmic is yet again going to sort all that out. HOWEVER, if you don't need the latest and greatest bleeding edge stuff, it's always been possible to set up a stable system. In the Ubuntu family, you went with Hardy. And that's what he's missing: if you know what to look for, there are always stable options out there, either Debian or Centos or Ubuntu LTS. The issues he does cite are pretty rapidly getting sorted out in the edgier areas. Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
Jim March wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Lisa Kacholdlisakach...@obnosis.com wrote: What a load of horse puckey! Silly, silly, silly, silly! Well...not entirely. He uses Network Manager and it's WiFi setup as one example. And I'm afraid he's right, or at least he was. Network Manager 7.x series as used in Ubuntu Intrepid and Jaunty was a mess. Debian refused to go there even in Sid and with good reason. The release candidate 8 code found in Karmic is much more solid. We've also had a period of time lately when the GUI stack was in flux. Jaunty shipped with badly screwed up Intel drivers for example - it got about half of the upstream kernel/xorg/mesa/Intel parts it needed and a VERY good case can be made that it should have been delayed. Karmic is yet again going to sort all that out. HOWEVER, if you don't need the latest and greatest bleeding edge stuff, it's always been possible to set up a stable system. In the Ubuntu family, you went with Hardy. And that's what he's missing: if you know what to look for, there are always stable options out there, either Debian or Centos or Ubuntu LTS. The issues he does cite are pretty rapidly getting sorted out in the edgier areas. And some of the issues that are cited have no bearing on other distros. *The non-buntu distros did not suffer from the Intel-hell that Ubuntu 9.04 shipped with. (you cited that, not the OP, but still) *where people are assumed to not know their base from their apex, This is a load of horse puckey indeed. We all know that. How many boys in here stick to using only a command line? Anyone? The wording of this article at times seems to stipulate a negative point of view, a view somewhat attacking desktop linux, even if it isn't necessarily true: Things like hardware detection, graphical setup, removable media control and networking have had several attempts over the years to be automated so the unwashed masses can wash their hands of those matters. Due to the unimaginable amount of different configuration possibilities these are enormous tasks. Some have been successful (relatively) and some not. Relative to what? Windows? BSD? DOS? What is wrong with the hardware detection? Most problems of non-detected hardware are the fault of the hardware vendors choosing to only ship proprietary drivers and firmware which distros cannot, and should not, support. What is wrong with the graphical setup? Same problem: vendors shipping non- free and buggy drivers (nVidia, I am looking at you!) What is wrong with networking? Okay, okay, network manager can be a little, ahem, messed up when dealing with encrypted wireless networks, but that is because that stack is constantly in flux and being improved upon. You can also in some cases, again, blame the vendors, for shipping in many cases, proprietary drivers, or forcing users to use ndiswrapper, which never really worked or performed well for me. What about remote media control? Explain that a little better, I'd ask the author. Of course, that isn't going to happen, because it is a one sided 'discussion.' All in all, I find this article borderline FUD. -- Ryan Rix (623)-826-0051 Fortune: It's time to boot, do your boot ROMs know where your disk controllers are? http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://identi.ca/phrkonaleash XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and countless other FOSS channels. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
Actually I think the author achieved EXACTLY what he intended and it was CERTAINLY what I intended when I posted the link here. That is to say a lively discussion where people really think about what they say before they type it (well, most of you anyway :=) On the other hand, I tend to agree with most of what he says taken literally. IOW, it is NOT Linux that lacks stability (I think the title was intended to provoke). And while it would be ideal if the ever changing AND improving desktop experience is hugely beneficial, the missed details do not help us gain mass acceptance. I, like others, am irritated when something that worked in release X no longer works in release Y and I hope we see that happening less in the future. I think Ubuntu Team and Shuttleworth have done an awesome job improving the distro over time. I like time based releases even with the problems they cause. I do think a bit more scope control and a LOT more community testing would help control the glitches. As to stable versus cutting edge release selection, people that build/work production systems have no business being on the bleeding edge as someone else wrote here. Others, like me, make a concious decision to not stay with a known stable system for years. What we lack, IMHO, is a good way for people to make those choices and the wherewithall to teach them how. -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
OT: PATENTS - Microsoft Banned from Selling XML Based Word Products in the USA - i4i absolves OpenOffice
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2009/08/12/judge-bans-microsoft-from-selling-word.aspx?PageIndex=4 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351492,00.asp XML Patent Issues and OpenOffice: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/18/190227/i4i-Says-OpenOffice-Does-Not-Infringe-Like-MS-Word?from=rss -- (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Flight Simulator
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/154262,defence-spends-17m-on-ultimate-linux-flight-simulator.aspx -- (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux losing stability?
And some of the issues that are cited have no bearing on other distros. Yes and no... *The non-buntu distros did not suffer from the Intel-hell that Ubuntu 9.04 shipped with. (you cited that, not the OP, but still) No, this wasn't purely an Ubuntu issue. Jaunty had about half the graphical stack changes needed. OpenSuse 11.1 got about 3/4ths but still wasn't quite right in the head, neither was the latest Fedora. A lot of cutting-edge distros got burned during this change period in the graphic stack. What is wrong with the graphical setup? Same problem: vendors shipping non- free and buggy drivers (nVidia, I am looking at you!) Ummm...while NVidia was hit, and to a lesser degree ATI, Intel was hit worst of all and that's all FOSS drivers. ATI's situation is weirdest. They've cut off support for the older chipsets in their proprietary drivers, however they're still selling those chipsets as budget solutions. A friend of mine just paid $300 out the door at Beast Buy for a surprisingly decent Asus lappy, but it came with the ATI x1200 chipset which ATI isn't supporting...while still selling it brand new. THAT is pretty gross. Now on the good side, ATI has supplied info to the FOSS community at a rate far greater than NVidia so FOSS drivers for the x1200 (and similar x1100/x1150) are coming...in fact pre-release versions of same are in Karmic. The guy that bought the cheap lappy? I actually have him running on Karmic, with all updates turned off so I can check for regressions when I manually update it (he's a friend, local, and I'm willing to spend the time on it). Anyways. Anyone with the x1200 is in good shape with Hardy (on proprietary drivers), screwy in Intrepid, screwed HARD in Jaunty, and apparently will be in good shape again (finally with FOSS drivers!) with Karmic. What is wrong with networking? Okay, okay, network manager can be a little, ahem, messed up when dealing with encrypted wireless networks, but that is because that stack is constantly in flux and being improved upon. You can also in some cases, again, blame the vendors, for shipping in many cases, proprietary drivers, or forcing users to use ndiswrapper, which never really worked or performed well for me. Oh no. Sorry. In Intrepid and Jaunty (Network Manager 7.x series) it was COMMON to put in a valid WPA password for a given SSID, have it choke and then come back to you showing the password as a long string of hex gobblygook when you do show password. Oh HELL no. There is ZERO excuse for that crap. If I put a password in there, I damned well did so and nobody has any excuse for changing it automagically. That's deep into the steaming turd zone. Debian rightfully said that was just intolerable and never went there. I went ahead and lived with it myself because I have a broadband cellmodem that it could auto-detect but for anybody on Ethernet-and-WiFi-only, Wicd was a better option. And yeah, suspecting Ubuntu had borked the install of NM7 I tried Fedora 10 when it first came out (about mid-way through the Intrepid era). Same bug, plus Fedora's usual habit of committing hari-kari due to untested auto-updates being pushed out, in this case killing package management entirely shortly after Fedora 10 was released officially. No more Fedora thanks, I'd seen that sort of idiocy before (Fedora Core 6). Fedora is ALWAYS alpha code, period, end of discussion. In Karmic I have NetworkManager Applet 0.7.995 per about, but that's really release candidate 8.0, and it seems a lot more solid. This has NOTHING to do with WiFi card drivers (ndiswrapped or otherwise) and everything to do with All in all, I find this article borderline FUD. I think the article's mistake was in failing to differentiate between bleeding edge and stable distros. Jim --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
