Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
2013/1/5 Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A: +1 if we can have good spam filter or B: +1 if only first mail is moderated just to stop spam. and C: -1 we have to change the current way. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution. ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
2013/1/9 Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay sankarshan.mukhopadh...@gmail.com: I have been reading this thread for a while. And, not just this iteration. There are a couple of things which leave me a bit upset. One, the original email from Sudhanwa left more issues un-addressed than it did by way of explanation. The exposition was more (admittedly, paraphrasing) certain issues compel things to be the way they are, persons unnamed (due to safety in anonymity) are discussing and changes may happen. Unfortunately, most of the traffic on the list subsequently has been about the issue. The expected nature of traffic on an UserGroup list is never always limited to let's dissect what is wrong with the mailman settings for this list. Because that approach defines an oddly practised form of tautology. I've been lurking on this list for a while now. And, while the genesis of the crisis - lack of traffic - may have been due to settings, the lack of traffic itself is very upsetting. There could be a number of reasons for that - specialized groups and forums are available to discuss everything under the sun, newbies may not be facing any issues while installation (Paradise Regained - every single piece of new hardware just works !), or, that there is simply nothing to discuss. Whatever may the reason be - that should be thought about. On a side note, this isn't unique - most of the major LUG lists are seeing dwindling traffic. The difference in this case is that it is sharply approached zero. We have to change the narrative now. There definitely are problems that needs to be solved, but the barrier to cross them is higher, so we need more mentors. I think, we have to build a community that can solve it. Probably we need to mentor new people in the community, give them opportunities, allow them to make mistakes, challenge them to take it further, have a continued dialogue. I look at it as an opportunity too as we have crossed the stage of being able to solve our problems ourselves by little fiddling. Now we need to build a community of hackers to solve our problems. Even if we could solve them ourselves, there are so many of them to solve it ourselves. Also, I think this means there is now more upstream contributions happening than activity in the lugs. If you look at debian, fedora, kde etc we have active and thriving communities. I think the role of user groups would be to connect new people, especially students to the larger upstream communities. But there is always scope for a lug to reach out to new campuses with linux install fests. That is the starting point of being part of the community. Even though the people who are already in lug might know how to install GNU/Linux, there are many out there who have not got a chance to enter this community. So I see the role of lugs as, 1. Reach out to new people. 2. Mentor them and connect with the wider community. Note: This is clearly looking at contribution as a a goal and this is my personal goal. Other people might have different ideas on it. Pune has its flagship event in GNUnify - that the LUG list doesn't see much activity is probably something of an oddity. I am old school and while forums like G+ are always welcome (and, I'm happy that individuals have decided to come together to create the community page) in terms of outreach and conversations, a mailing list is more than that. Tooling that measures the vibrancy and activity of communities still use mailman archives to generate graphs. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution. ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On 13 January 2013 09:37, मःसागरः o.s@guruvision.com wrote: If you have been on PLUG mailing list for long and still your mails are getting blocked. Then imagin yourself to be in chrooted jail environment and instead of making noise think of how you can get out of that still manage to remain an active member thereby learning to manage how to pass your mails without getting blocked... so much for the __non-technology**!!! hmm... may the force be with you. :) ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On 18 January 2013 11:40, म.हा.सा.ग.र o.s@guruvision.com wrote: Actually why there is no D option is what I am currently wondering... Because I did not want any D's to vote :) ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
A: +1. Open as in OpenBSD, and not Linux. -ag -- pl. excuse brevity and possible typos, sent from a tiny device. On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Kaustubh Gadkari kaustubh.gadk...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A:+1. If this means more spam, so be it. -- Kaustubh Gadkari ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Tuesday 08 Jan 2013 5:01:49 PM ag@gmail wrote: A: +1. Open as in OpenBSD, and not Linux. -ag -- pl. excuse brevity and possible typos, sent from a tiny device. On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Kaustubh Gadkari kaustubh.gadk...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A:+1. If this means more spam, so be it. Actually why there is no D option is what I am currently wondering... Let it make it more attractive for more people to fall prey to this campaign, that is option D. D: 0+1=1; ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:15 PM, vaibhav vaibhav.kha...@gmail.com wrote: A: +1 *Regards*, Vaibhav On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 Regards Aditya If you have been on PLUG mailing list for long and still your mails are getting blocked. Then imagin yourself to be in chrooted jail environment and instead of making noise think of how you can get out of that still manage to remain an active member thereby learning to manage how to pass your mails without getting blocked... so much for the __non-technology**!!! -- ১. Stupid question always warrants a stupid answer! ২. Why question the answer, unless question itself is the answer ? ३. There are abundant number of things to learn in this world, however only few that can be taught! ৪. No question is ever stupid! ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: Just two days ago, my reply to an OP on security certification was trapped by a Suspicious Header filter. It took close to 42 hours to get moderator approval. This is after so much discussion on opening up this mailing list. I have been reading this thread for a while. And, not just this iteration. There are a couple of things which leave me a bit upset. One, the original email from Sudhanwa left more issues un-addressed than it did by way of explanation. The exposition was more (admittedly, paraphrasing) certain issues compel things to be the way they are, persons unnamed (due to safety in anonymity) are discussing and changes may happen. Unfortunately, most of the traffic on the list subsequently has been about the issue. The expected nature of traffic on an UserGroup list is never always limited to let's dissect what is wrong with the mailman settings for this list. Because that approach defines an oddly practised form of tautology. I've been lurking on this list for a while now. And, while the genesis of the crisis - lack of traffic - may have been due to settings, the lack of traffic itself is very upsetting. There could be a number of reasons for that - specialized groups and forums are available to discuss everything under the sun, newbies may not be facing any issues while installation (Paradise Regained - every single piece of new hardware just works !), or, that there is simply nothing to discuss. Whatever may the reason be - that should be thought about. On a side note, this isn't unique - most of the major LUG lists are seeing dwindling traffic. The difference in this case is that it is sharply approached zero. Pune has its flagship event in GNUnify - that the LUG list doesn't see much activity is probably something of an oddity. I am old school and while forums like G+ are always welcome (and, I'm happy that individuals have decided to come together to create the community page) in terms of outreach and conversations, a mailing list is more than that. Tooling that measures the vibrancy and activity of communities still use mailman archives to generate graphs. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay https://twitter.com/#!/sankarshan ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Saturday 05 January 2013 09:55 AM, Thin Rhino wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A: +1. I'm a lurker on most lists that are moderated because I have 0 motivation to be an active participant, if I know that my mail has a chance of being 'stuck', however, slim it might be. cheers, - steve ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Wednesday 09 Jan 2013 6:25:28 PM steve wrote: On Saturday 05 January 2013 09:55 AM, Thin Rhino wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A: +1. I'm a lurker on most lists that are moderated because I have 0 motivation to be an active participant, if I know that my mail has a chance of being 'stuck', however, slim it might be. cheers, - steve Test of happiness is in eating the puding not staring at it... Using the analogy I am for C: 0+=1; The classical test of one's mind stability is in how long can that person hold forth his/her breath, so when actually he/she is needed to hold it, there is no such pressure!!! ***Mind Your language*** means a lot many different things to different people...!!! ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
A: +1 Lets hope quick(..rather any) response from admin/moderators. Vinayak Kulkarni From: Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com To: Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List plug-mail@plug.org.in Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 6:14 AM, Kaustubh Gadkari kaustubh.gadk...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A:+1. If this means more spam, so be it. I have voted for the same option. Just two days ago, my reply to an OP on security certification was trapped by a Suspicious Header filter. It took close to 42 hours to get moderator approval. This is after so much discussion on opening up this mailing list. This vote would be meaningful if the list admins/moderators have bought into it. No response so far. -- Arun Khan ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
A: +1 *Regards*, Vaibhav On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 Regards Aditya ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On 7 January 2013 14:32, G Karunakar indli...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 My vote A +1 (with some rules [a]) [a] spamassasin and a few filters like the ones I shared in an different thread in this mailing list; in that LUG mailing list there is no moderator Q. There is no spam in that mailing list. I guess some spam control would help on server where list is hosted! The sourceforge lists I maintain never seem to have spam trouble! My vote for A Mine is for A: +1 The message I sent about the kernel talk on 5th didn't make it. I wouldn't have been able to communicate if I solely did through this list. Messages on the same day may not be processed. They are always held for moderation with too few moderators. There is an unmoderated list at lists.sourcery.in where you could even bcc to that, I see no spam, and when it's big enough to have spam, I am sure I'll have an equally good filter to handle the spam. I still see this as a lot of inaction. Beta ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
- On 7 January 2013 14:32, G Karunakar indli...@gmail.com wrote: -- On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 My vote A +1 (with some rules [a]) [a] spamassasin and a few filters like the ones I shared in an different thread in this mailing list; in that LUG mailing list there is no moderator Q. There is no spam in that mailing list. I guess some spam control would help on server where list is hosted! The sourceforge lists I maintain never seem to have spam trouble! My vote for A I vote lucidly for A: +1 Beta ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A:+1. If this means more spam, so be it. -- Kaustubh Gadkari ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 6:14 AM, Kaustubh Gadkari kaustubh.gadk...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 A:+1. If this means more spam, so be it. I have voted for the same option. Just two days ago, my reply to an OP on security certification was trapped by a Suspicious Header filter. It took close to 42 hours to get moderator approval. This is after so much discussion on opening up this mailing list. This vote would be meaningful if the list admins/moderators have bought into it. No response so far. -- Arun Khan ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 My vote A +1 (with some rules [a]) [a] spamassasin and a few filters like the ones I shared in an different thread in this mailing list; in that LUG mailing list there is no moderator Q. There is no spam in that mailing list. I guess some spam control would help on server where list is hosted! The sourceforge lists I maintain never seem to have spam trouble! My vote for A Karunakar ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: The issue is been dragged on for ages and I also see a lot of confusion on what is expected. A quick vote should help. A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change Please vote: A: +1 or B: +1 or C +1 My vote A +1 (with some rules [a]) [a] spamassasin and a few filters like the ones I shared in an different thread in this mailing list; in that LUG mailing list there is no moderator Q. There is no spam in that mailing list. -- Arun Khan ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
Re: [PLUG] Mailing list issues - Quick vote
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Thin Rhino trml...@gmail.com wrote: A: Open up the list completely, no moderation B: Remove restrictive moderation, keep basic moderation in place C: Let it be as it is, no change A mailing list maintained using a standard mailing list software has two distinct roles - admin/administrator and, moderator. The roles are somewhat self-explanatory and, traditionally the moderator hammer is used judiciously and, rarely. The plethora of discussions around the mailing list issues topic seems to conflate the two roles. -- sankarshan mukhopadhyay https://twitter.com/#!/sankarshan ___ Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
