Re: Please end - Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Robert Moskowitz skrev den 2013-01-13 19:49: I did take this off list to Wietse, but it is worst than you make it out to. It can even vary by sender to a list. reply-all in roundcube sends ONLY to maillist not private while reply ONLY reply private why cant all others copy that ? :)
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 1/12/13 9:55 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: and that is the really sad thing of this thread the subject is about REPLY-TO headers but WTF - there is NO reply-to header at all reply goes back to the sender while it would go back to the list if the messages WOULD contain Reoly-To so if your MUA does not support reply-list or the icon is not in the toolbar you have only two choices: * hope the MUA supports reply-list * reply all and remove the original sender * reply all and do what Wietse does not like so in reality it would be better to add a reply-To-header as any php-script adds in 5 seconds before start such topic! If you look at Wietse messages, they do have a Reply-To field, and that is what caused to original discussion. He, understandably, prefers help requests to be placed on the list as opposed to directly to him, that way the other members of the list might be able to help with the reply, and the conversation is kept out in public where everyone can learn from it. Knowing the software that this list uses (by reading the headers), it is in fact possible to configure the list so that all messages have a Reply-To field set to the list posting address. The issue with this, is that if a poster has Reply-To set to where the poster would prefer to receive messages, this setting would get overwritten by the list. The manager of the list is thus presented with a conundrum, they can leave Reply-To unchanged, so the posters to the list can specify where they would prefer personal replies to go, and repliers need to use Reply to List (if available) or Reply All to respond to the message. (If using Reply All, good netiquette would be to strip the original posters address out of the recipients list, unless there was a need for them to get a personal reply, but this is largely not done). The problem with Reply All in this case, is that it will normally sen back to both the From: address and the Reply-To: (after all, it is ALL). The other choice the list manager has is to set Reply-To: to the list posting address, so Reply goes to the list, and to make a private reply, you need to use Reply-All, and then remove the list address from the distribution, and if the original poster had user Reply-To, that setting has been lost, so the Reply goes to the wrong address as far as they are concerned. Because of this, having the list set Reply-To is normally not done unless the list really want to strongly discourage private replies. So the choice comes down to, do you break the ability to specify a Reply-To for private replies, or make it that people who use Reply All to post to the list, (and forget to trim the recipient list) might send email to address that don't want it. The first causes the possibility of lost email (A message being sent from a send only account, that sets Reply-To to point to where they can read email, something allowed by the RFCs). The second just causes inconvenience for the poster, since they will receive the message at their Reply-To address, and if they really wanted to, they could set up the posting address to be really send only to not get replies back on it. -- Richard Damon
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
I am surprised by all the apologetic replies about mailing lists, when Reply-To: is in fact standardized for more than 30 years, and it has nothing to do with mailing lists. Wietse Citing from RFC 5322 section 3.6.2 (published 2008): When the Reply-To: field is present, it indicates the address(es) to which the author of the message suggests that replies be sent. In the absence of the Reply-To: field, replies SHOULD by default be sent to the mailbox(es) specified in the From: field unless otherwise specified by the person composing the reply. Citing from rfc2822 section 3.6.2 (published 2001): The originator fields also provide the information required when replying to a message. When the Reply-To: field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es) to which the author of the message suggests that replies be sent. In the absence of the Reply-To: field, replies SHOULD by default be sent to the mailbox(es) specified in the From: field unless otherwise specified by the person composing the reply. Citing from RFC 822 section 4.4.4 (published 1982): o If the Reply-To field exists, then the reply should go to the addresses indicated in that field and not to the address(es) indicated in the From field.
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:41:26AM -0500, Wietse Venema wrote: I am surprised by all the apologetic replies about mailing lists, when Reply-To: is in fact standardized for more than 30 years, and it has nothing to do with mailing lists. Furthermore, way upthread the original request was to use an MUA that properly supports participating in lists when reading/replying to list email. There is no expectation that all MUAs do this well, use one that does. My postfix-users correspondence is exclusively via mutt: lists postfix-users@postfix.org ... send-hook '~t postfix-users@postfix.org' my_hdr From: Viktor Dukhovni postfix-us...@dukhovni.org send-hook '~t postfix-users@postfix.org' my_hdr Reply-To: postfix-users@postfix.org send-hook '~t postfix-users@postfix.org' my_hdr Fcc: ... I often read/respond-to other mail to the underlying account via Mail.app, but all responses to the Postfix list are only via mutt. Use the right tool for the right job. If a given tool is not up to the task, use another. -- Viktor.
Please end - Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
I did take this off list to Wietse, but it is worst than you make it out to. It can even vary by sender to a list. I apologize, a little for top posting. Another deadly list sin, but I did not want this buried all the way at the end. This message from Harald, if I reply to sender it goes to Harald only. Reply to all, the list is CCed with To: to Harald and finally Reply to list (which is NOT an easy keystroke command (sft-cntl-l), and only available on an open message) does make the To: the list. Now that earlier missive from Wietse works the opposite! Reply goes to the list, Reply to all CCs Wietse, and Reply to list goes to the list. Off list, I told Wietse I would endeavour to be diligent, but I pretty much have to generically use reply to all and edit the headers as I jump from list to list. So please drop this thread as it is noise taking Wietse away from designing the master.cf edit function. On 01/12/2013 09:59 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 12.01.2013 15:18, schrieb Matthias Andree: Am 11.01.2013 15:33, schrieb Robert Moskowitz: I WILL work more at paying attention to what works here. Your headers reveal you are using Thunderbird; it can't be that hard to click List reply or whatever the button inscription translates to in your locale. It works for the Postfix list. maybe the icon is not in the toolbar i can not say if it is as default but i know my personal history * my thunderbird-profile ist from 2004 * this was before i used linux as my main-system * this was before i started to work as sysadmin * this was before i used any mailing-list so maybe i had disabled the icon years ago as i cleanup my user-interfaces and remove unused icons, especially in times with not so large displays as today said that: i personally realized the option also after a not so nice answer from Wietse like th eone to Robert two years ago, pulled it back to the toolbar and since this day i am using it __ but as said - there are a lot of mailing-lists out there which are configured by morons where this all does not work as it should or is destroyed because many users on other lists are doing permanently reply-all and if your server is configured like mine to supress duplicates because of this there are good chances that you get only the personal copy without list-headers at all so you have to take attention permanently that you reply correctly to the list-address only, sometimes you are frustrated because of this and hit reply-all because others do also not care and after reply to 10 other mailing-lists it may happen from time to time that this mistake happens on the postfix-list too i know for sure Robert is active at least on Fedora/CetOS/Dovecot lists, i am personalyl active on at least 17 lists (counted the sieve-folders for mailing-lists on the server) so maybe we should not make such a big deal on this odd how to reply because this reasons and because the fact on other lists you even get replies if you try to educate people that other members even like two copies for questionable reasons
Reply-to-list function is broken - Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 01/12/2013 04:35 PM, Peter wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 13/01/13 06:15, Reindl Harald wrote: i DO want supress duplicates it works on a lower level - dbmail i am receiving around 500 mails per day with duplicates still supressed so i do not need them too in a different folder to save two seconds for some of the mails buisness-emails ALWAYS MUSTE BE reply-all and have to be so, one reson more that it sometimes can happen you hit the same for a list-reply after 50,60,100 business-mails Thunderbird has a great smart reply button that works well for the vast majority of cases. And it does not work (via keystroke) on the folder. You MUST open the message. Frequently, I have read a message, done some research/testing, and then want to reply. To use this function, I MUST open the message, reply to list, then close the message. If I Reply-to-all on the closed list (via keystroke of sft-cnt-r) and then edit the messages, it is less messy. So I have not adopted reply to list, because it does not work in all cases. For some reason. It is a button with a drop down that allows you access to all the different reply mechanisms available for the email you're replying to with the smartest one shown as teh default for a simply click: If there is a list header there is a reply to list option and it is the default. If there are multiple recipients then there is a reply all option and barring reply to list it is the default. There is always a simple reply option and it is the default barring none of the above. Since I found that button I have replaced my simple reply button with it on the toolbar and have never had an issue since. Peter -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQ8dciAAoJEAUijw0EjkDv6MQH/0gro/qjOLrXyb4WCF9lx9q4 8atSUpImNVxp72ntwQ0sXj2u39U1xy3WoI1ClwiwWE6i8QLSuiO/OO+0wPTtN1Vk v8nWLGSmsGyrYuxda5DwiMco2ei9qOMt8/nGu4hLxvFj54I62K9VLFrPLcQtkz3p LSX6uS3IVqw7Ptwpm9Slgw9pb6nWf9E4ertPk4eRWHo/JWNqwuFuFG7A+3LKWQK0 hqJmUysSsvqCxF4oMPWK6rILVahz6WWQ7ad6wRFS4yJCTAwZkzB04vd0nVWZLpRr EhAHsItAfqpLPmoWZYD3z3Qw8nCyVYWGa7RIPQ3dU81wzOwZv5nFFSUmYjEd2E0= =axtZ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Reply-to-list function is broken - Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Speaking of broken, this thread exists because software ignores the Reply-To: header which was defined in RFC 822 30+ years ago, and which exists to this date in RFC 5322. So if you guys could file a bug report, that might help more than apologizing for user interface issues. Wietse
Re: Reply-to-list function is broken - Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 01/13/2013 02:15 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: Speaking of broken, this thread exists because software ignores the Reply-To: header which was defined in RFC 822 30+ years ago, and which exists to this date in RFC 5322. So if you guys could file a bug report, that might help more than apologizing for user interface issues. I am working on collecting behaviours, then at the next IETF, I will corner Pete Resnick (who I have worked with since my Eudora 1.21 days) and go over it and figure out what bug reports or such to file. But if I can figure out what the behaviour is, I will submit a bug report. But first that bug report to Redhat on localhost end-device cert :)
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Richard Damon: On 1/11/13 9:51 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: header, then you are using the wrong mail program to participate on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. Wietse, I believe that the poster was trying to explain a human engineering Stop whining. Use software that is competent at handling mailing list correspondence. It's not rocket science. Wietse
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Am 12.01.2013 14:49, schrieb Wietse Venema: Richard Damon: On 1/11/13 9:51 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: header, then you are using the wrong mail program to participate on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. Wietse, I believe that the poster was trying to explain a human engineering Stop whining. Use software that is competent at handling mailing list correspondence. It's not rocket science. Wietse is is NOT the software i currently receive 20 mailing-lists and they behave all different between reply to list is not possible at all and reply leaves only the sender without list, so you have to use reply-all there and if you had some posts on such a bullshit-setup you are trained to reply-all but yes, i agree that it should be not a proböem to verify the RCPT before press send - maybe it sooner or later saves someones job... BTW: it happens randomly to you too hit reply-all on this list :-) a bad example is the mysql-mailing list: * explain the idiots there reply to liust and not to all * you get back from other members but i WANT to have two copies * they are fucking too stupid to send bulk-headers to tell autorepsonders not respond to the list-messages, no idea which monkey at oracle is responsible for this signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 1/12/2013 7:49 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Richard Damon: On 1/11/13 9:51 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: header, then you are using the wrong mail program to participate on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. Wietse, I believe that the poster was trying to explain a human engineering Stop whining. Use software that is competent at handling mailing list correspondence. It's not rocket science. Wietse, I'm using Tbird 17, same as Robert. Do you see the same problem with my posts? I.e. is it a fault with the MUA, its default config, or user defined config? -- Stan
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Am 11.01.2013 15:33, schrieb Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. Some I have to reply to all to get just the list. Some I have to respond to sender. Some I have to close the mail and respond to sender from the message list. Some require me to edit the reply list and that also varies. It is very inconsistant. It takes dilligence on my part, and I will freely admit that I am not consistant either. Perhaps ties into my various life challenges. I WILL work more at paying attention to what works here. Your headers reveal you are using Thunderbird; it can't be that hard to click List reply or whatever the button inscription translates to in your locale. It works for the Postfix list.
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Am 12.01.2013 15:18, schrieb Matthias Andree: Am 11.01.2013 15:33, schrieb Robert Moskowitz: I WILL work more at paying attention to what works here. Your headers reveal you are using Thunderbird; it can't be that hard to click List reply or whatever the button inscription translates to in your locale. It works for the Postfix list. maybe the icon is not in the toolbar i can not say if it is as default but i know my personal history * my thunderbird-profile ist from 2004 * this was before i used linux as my main-system * this was before i started to work as sysadmin * this was before i used any mailing-list so maybe i had disabled the icon years ago as i cleanup my user-interfaces and remove unused icons, especially in times with not so large displays as today said that: i personally realized the option also after a not so nice answer from Wietse like th eone to Robert two years ago, pulled it back to the toolbar and since this day i am using it __ but as said - there are a lot of mailing-lists out there which are configured by morons where this all does not work as it should or is destroyed because many users on other lists are doing permanently reply-all and if your server is configured like mine to supress duplicates because of this there are good chances that you get only the personal copy without list-headers at all so you have to take attention permanently that you reply correctly to the list-address only, sometimes you are frustrated because of this and hit reply-all because others do also not care and after reply to 10 other mailing-lists it may happen from time to time that this mistake happens on the postfix-list too i know for sure Robert is active at least on Fedora/CetOS/Dovecot lists, i am personalyl active on at least 17 lists (counted the sieve-folders for mailing-lists on the server) so maybe we should not make such a big deal on this odd how to reply because this reasons and because the fact on other lists you even get replies if you try to educate people that other members even like two copies for questionable reasons signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 12-01-13 15:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
but as said - there are a lot of mailing-lists out there which are
configured by morons where this all does not work as it should or
is destroyed because many users on other lists are doing permanently
reply-all and if your server is configured like mine to supress
duplicates because of this there are good chances that you get only
the personal copy without list-headers at all
You don't want to suppress duplicates, you want the suppress the
unwanted copy. This is easy in most cases: make the mailing list
software not suppress duplicates, then use the following sieve recipe to
filter all duplicates:
if header :contains List-Post postfix-users@postfix.org {
fileinto Postfix;
stop;
} elsif address :is [To, Cc] postfix-users@postfix.org {
fileinto Duplicates;
stop;
}
Then use reply-to-list for all mailing lists. Haven't found one that
didn't work.
NB The first line, which detects a mailing list copy, might need
tweaking depending on the mailing list software. But each mailing list
is easy to identify based on some kind of header (combination).
--
Tom
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Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Am 12.01.2013 17:45, schrieb Tom Hendrikx:
On 12-01-13 15:59, Reindl Harald wrote:
but as said - there are a lot of mailing-lists out there which are
configured by morons where this all does not work as it should or
is destroyed because many users on other lists are doing permanently
reply-all and if your server is configured like mine to supress
duplicates because of this there are good chances that you get only
the personal copy without list-headers at all
You don't want to suppress duplicates, you want the suppress the
unwanted copy. This is easy in most cases: make the mailing list
software not suppress duplicates, then use the following sieve recipe to
filter all duplicates:
if header :contains List-Post postfix-users@postfix.org {
fileinto Postfix;
stop;
} elsif address :is [To, Cc] postfix-users@postfix.org {
fileinto Duplicates;
stop;
}
Then use reply-to-list for all mailing lists. Haven't found one that
didn't work.
i DO want supress duplicates
it works on a lower level - dbmail
i am receiving around 500 mails per day with duplicates still supressed
so i do not need them too in a different folder to save two seconds
for some of the mails
buisness-emails ALWAYS MUSTE BE reply-all and have to be so, one reson
more that it sometimes can happen you hit the same for a list-reply after
50,60,100 business-mails
hey guys - look at this thread, is it really worth instead simply
ignore a f**ing duplicate mail and move it to trash?
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Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 13/01/13 06:15, Reindl Harald wrote: i DO want supress duplicates it works on a lower level - dbmail i am receiving around 500 mails per day with duplicates still supressed so i do not need them too in a different folder to save two seconds for some of the mails buisness-emails ALWAYS MUSTE BE reply-all and have to be so, one reson more that it sometimes can happen you hit the same for a list-reply after 50,60,100 business-mails Thunderbird has a great smart reply button that works well for the vast majority of cases. It is a button with a drop down that allows you access to all the different reply mechanisms available for the email you're replying to with the smartest one shown as teh default for a simply click: If there is a list header there is a reply to list option and it is the default. If there are multiple recipients then there is a reply all option and barring reply to list it is the default. There is always a simple reply option and it is the default barring none of the above. Since I found that button I have replaced my simple reply button with it on the toolbar and have never had an issue since. Peter -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQ8dciAAoJEAUijw0EjkDv6MQH/0gro/qjOLrXyb4WCF9lx9q4 8atSUpImNVxp72ntwQ0sXj2u39U1xy3WoI1ClwiwWE6i8QLSuiO/OO+0wPTtN1Vk v8nWLGSmsGyrYuxda5DwiMco2ei9qOMt8/nGu4hLxvFj54I62K9VLFrPLcQtkz3p LSX6uS3IVqw7Ptwpm9Slgw9pb6nWf9E4ertPk4eRWHo/JWNqwuFuFG7A+3LKWQK0 hqJmUysSsvqCxF4oMPWK6rILVahz6WWQ7ad6wRFS4yJCTAwZkzB04vd0nVWZLpRr EhAHsItAfqpLPmoWZYD3z3Qw8nCyVYWGa7RIPQ3dU81wzOwZv5nFFSUmYjEd2E0= =axtZ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Am 12.01.2013 22:35, schrieb Peter: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 13/01/13 06:15, Reindl Harald wrote: i DO want supress duplicates it works on a lower level - dbmail i am receiving around 500 mails per day with duplicates still supressed so i do not need them too in a different folder to save two seconds for some of the mails buisness-emails ALWAYS MUSTE BE reply-all and have to be so, one reson more that it sometimes can happen you hit the same for a list-reply after 50,60,100 business-mails Thunderbird has a great smart reply button that works well for the vast majority of cases. It is a button with a drop down that allows you access to all the different reply mechanisms available for the email you're replying to with the smartest one shown as teh default for a simply click: If there is a list header there is a reply to list option and it is the default. If there are multiple recipients then there is a reply all option and barring reply to list it is the default. There is always a simple reply option and it is the default barring none of the above. Since I found that button I have replaced my simple reply button with it on the toolbar and have never had an issue since. [harry@srv-rhsoft:~]$ rpm -q thunderbird thunderbird-17.0.2-1.fc17.x86_64 reply goes to you and not to the list there is no other button available with a smarter logic than reply screenshot is rejected here due size signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 1/12/13 8:49 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Richard Damon: On 1/11/13 9:51 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: header, then you are using the wrong mail program to participate on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. Wietse, I believe that the poster was trying to explain a human engineering Stop whining. Use software that is competent at handling mailing list correspondence. It's not rocket science. Wietse I do, and I wasn't whining. I was pointing out that software that is competent at handling mailing list isn't necessarily as common as might be liked, and in fact software can be fully standards compliant and not handle mailing list well. In fact some of the most commonly used MLMs and MUA's do NOT implement the processing needed to be competent, and this lack has impact on the usage of those that are, to help correct for this. First, RFC 2369 which defines the List-Post header, which is what defines the protocol to allow for the Reply to List option, only places the Generation and Use of the header at a SHOULD level of requirement (not a MUST), add to that the the whole of RFC 2369 is only Standards Track, and not a Standard give email programs and mailing list reasonable amount of liberty in the processing of this header. In the ideal world where all MLM and MUA were RFC 2369 compliant, list usage would be simple, you get a message from the mailing list, to reply back to the list you use the Reply to List operation, and to make a reply just to the original poster, your press Reply. When you need to allow for non-compliant software existing, things get more complicated. Since the current state of art includes the fact that there are many people with MUAs that do not support a Reply to List like feature, and that there also exist a number of Mailing List Managers that do not fully support RFC 2369, we run into the problem that people get trained to not always do the right thing. Without a Reply to List option (either because it isn't supported by the MUA, or because the list doesn't add the needed List-Post: header), than the user's best option for replying back to the list is to use the Reply All feature. Even if your MUA supports Reply to List, enough other lists do not, that the social engineering to use Reply All is strong, especially if the MUA makes that an easier choice. I will note that even for this list, there is the encouragement to use Reply All, as it is set so that Reply just goes back to the original poster, unless they have specifically set Reply-To:, and it is an unfortunate situation that for Reply All there is no way to tell (for this message) that the Reply-To field is supposed to be the proper address for replying to the original poster as well as to the list. If the list was configured to set Reply-To to the list address, then Reply would work to go back to the list (and Reply-All + removing the list email address would be needed to reply back to the poster, losing the ability of them to use a Reply-To address). If you really don't want to get private replies to list messages, I would suggest doing it the normal way, set up an alternate email address that you post from which is set to bounce all email received. This email address would need to work initially to confirm the subscription, and would then be set to be subscribed with mail delivery disabled. You then read from another email address which is normally subscribed. -- Richard Damon
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Am 13.01.2013 03:43, schrieb Richard Damon: I will note that even for this list, there is the encouragement to use Reply All, as it is set so that Reply just goes back to the original poster, unless they have specifically set Reply-To:, and it is an unfortunate situation that for Reply All there is no way to tell (for this message) that the Reply-To field is supposed to be the proper address for replying to the original poster as well as to the list. If the list was configured to set Reply-To to the list address, then Reply would work to go back to the list and that is the really sad thing of this thread the subject is about REPLY-TO headers but WTF - there is NO reply-to header at all reply goes back to the sender while it would go back to the list if the messages WOULD contain Reoly-To so if your MUA does not support reply-list or the icon is not in the toolbar you have only two choices: * hope the MUA supports reply-list * reply all and remove the original sender * reply all and do what Wietse does not like so in reality it would be better to add a reply-To-header as any php-script adds in 5 seconds before start such topic! ___ what i mean? grep of this message-source from the list does not contain any REPLY-TO headers to respect! [harry@srv-rhsoft:~/Desktop]$ cat source.txt | grep -i reply-to Subject: Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers In-Reply-To: 3yk2pf6k8kzk...@spike.porcupine.org Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: poster, unless they have specifically set Reply-To:, and it is an this message) that the Reply-To field is supposed to be the proper the list was configured to set Reply-To to the list address, then the ability of them to use a Reply-To address). [harry@srv-rhsoft:~/Desktop]$ cat source.txt | grep -i list List-Post: mailto:postfix-users@postfix.org List-Help: http://www.postfix.org/lists.html List-Unsubscribe: mailto:majord...@postfix.org List-Subscribe: mailto:majord...@postfix.org Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. list correspondence. It's not rocket science. list isn't necessarily as common as might be liked, and in fact software can be fully standards compliant and not handle mailing list well. In First, RFC 2369 which defines the List-Post header, which is what defines the protocol to allow for the Reply to List option, only list reasonable amount of liberty in the processing of this header. In the ideal world where all MLM and MUA were RFC 2369 compliant, list usage would be simple, you get a message from the mailing list, to reply back to the list you use the Reply to List operation, and to make a people with MUAs that do not support a Reply to List like feature, and that there also exist a number of Mailing List Managers that do not to not always do the right thing. Without a Reply to List option (either because it isn't supported by the MUA, or because the list doesn't add the needed List-Post: header), than the user's best option for replying back to the list is to use the Reply All feature. Even if your MUA supports Reply to List, enough other lists do not, that the I will note that even for this list, there is the encouragement to use address for replying to the original poster as well as to the list. If the list was configured to set Reply-To to the list address, then Reply would work to go back to the list (and Reply-All + removing the list email address would be needed to reply back to the poster, losing If you really don't want to get private replies to list messages, I signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Wietse
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. Some I have to reply to all to get just the list. Some I have to respond to sender. Some I have to close the mail and respond to sender from the message list. Some require me to edit the reply list and that also varies. It is very inconsistant. It takes dilligence on my part, and I will freely admit that I am not consistant either. Perhaps ties into my various life challenges. I WILL work more at paying attention to what works here. Thank you.
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: header, then you are using the wrong mail program to participate on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. Wietse
Re: Learning how to respecth REPLY-TO headers
On 1/11/13 9:51 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert Moskowitz: On 01/11/2013 09:07 AM, Wietse Venema wrote: Robert, please configure your mail reader to respect the REPLY-TO header. I have asked you this before, and I think I will ignore your email until you play by the same rules as everyone else. Sorry about that last transmission. Your request would be reasonable if every list I am on worked the same way. If your mail program requires human effort to respect the Reply-To: header, then you are using the wrong mail program to participate on a mailing list. I will ignore your posts until that is fixed. Wietse Wietse, I believe that the poster was trying to explain a human engineering problem. Too many email lists have their settings set so that to proper reply to a message from them, you need to use reply all, which will unfortunately bypass your explicit setting of Reply-To:. If all mailing lists were set up so that one could use Reply to List to send back to the list, and all MUA's honored that, things would be great. Unfortunately, since many MUAs don't provide for the Reply to List option, list administrators need to figure out how to set up the list to work acceptably with these MUA (note that the Reply to List functionality is not a MUST rule, but I believe even added by a supplemental RFC). To allow for the possibility of using a private reply to the senders prefered address via Reply-To, often it is set up so that without Reply to List, the options of Reply goes just to the sender, and you need to use Reply-All to get it to the list. Others set Reply-To to go to the list, so to do a private reply, you need to Reply-All and edit out the list address (and the sender has lost the ability to specify their own Reply-To header). This unfortunately teaches people to just use Reply All to get the message back to the list, and this has the unfortunate side affect of ignoring Reply-To. A bit like earlier you were explaining how email addresses like @@example.com aren't a good idea because it isn't well supported, Reply-To's on mailing list are often enough broken that counting on them to work can be somewhat futile. -- Richard Damon
