Re: Sending massive mails
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Bjron Mork bjron.m...@gmail.com wrote: I do have the same concerns, is there any way to implement users bases sending policies through postfix … Not really. Postfix accepts messages into one of its queues, and will pick those messages up (depending on its retry formula) and attempt to deliver them. What you want is some brains that will know how many messages to a particular class of message has been sent in a given time window. Say, X-thousand messages to Y-domain from Z-IP. Postfix doesn't do that. PowerMTA does. But then again, that's why most ESPs run with that software, so just go with them instead.
Re: Sending massive mails
Peter Blair: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Bjron Mork bjron.m...@gmail.com wrote: I do have the same concerns, is there any way to implement users bases sending policies through postfix ? Not really. Postfix accepts messages into one of its queues, and will pick those messages up (depending on its retry formula) and attempt to deliver them. What you want is some brains that will know how many messages to a particular class of message has been sent in a given time window. Say, X-thousand messages to Y-domain from Z-IP. Postfix doesn't do that. PowerMTA does. But then again, that's why most ESPs run with that software, so just go with them instead. Postfix 2.7 and later support-per-sender IP policies and reputation (via the nexthop-less content filter feature). Per-transport rate limit support has been available since Postfix 2.5. See the respective RELEASE_NOTES files for details, Wietse
Re: Sending massive mails
* Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com: On 8/4/2011 9:57 AM, Alejandro Facultad wrote: What is the difference if the recipients opt in receive the mails or not, from the point of view of spam black lists ??? No difference, if you're referring to DNSBLs. Almost all are trap driven. Uhm, if somebody (double) opt-in, then it's really unlikely to be a trap. So if you're sending to real customer addresses, you won't get listed on DNSBLs. Yeah. If many of those 15K addresses are at gorilla receivers such as gmail, hotmail, yahoo, aol, you will run into delivery rate problems, Oh yes. this is spam button problems, etc. In which case you should read the list archives. This type of bulk sending, almost an identical scenario, was covered recently, within the last month or two. -- Stan -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de
RE: Sending massive mails
I do have the same concerns, is there any way to implement users bases sending policies through postfix Regards, B~Mork From: owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org [mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] On Behalf Of Alejandro Facultad Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:57 PM To: postfix-users@postfix.org Subject: Re: Sending massive mails What is the difference if the recipients opt in receive the mails or not, from the point of view of spam black lists ??? Thanks again _ De: Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de Para: postfix-users@postfix.org Enviado: jueves, 4 de agosto de 2011 11:38 Asunto: Re: Sending massive mails * Alejandro Facultad alejandro_facul...@yahoo.com.ar: Dear, I have a Postfix mail server in my company and a person from here is asking to send massive mails to a list of 15.000 recipients in order to announce periodically our company's news. I think with've got the risk that our mail server may be considered a spam server, being included in some spam blacklist as Spamhaus and other. That could happen, unless the recipients opted in to receive these mails. I ask you: what is the recommendation to send legal massive mails ??? What is the better solution if I have to do that with Postfix ??? Thanks a lot Alejandro Facultad -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de
Re: Sending massive mails
Am 05.08.2011 10:13, schrieb Bjron Mork: I do have the same concerns, is there any way to implement users bases sending policies through postfix … *Regards,* *B~Mork* Hi, search the list archives for recommands on sending mass mails, there are tons of of good advices on it. After all ,sending news mails to 15000 recipients is not a big thing on modern hardware with postfix i do it since years, if you follow the advices on the list chances to get on a rbl will be small, anyway, you have to deal with this ever, and not only with mass mails, and there are always stupid users and rbls, whatever you do, the only thing you could do, is to keep the marked as spam chances small Best Regards *From:*owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org [mailto:owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org] *On Behalf Of *Alejandro Facultad *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:57 PM *To:* postfix-users@postfix.org *Subject:* Re: Sending massive mails What is the difference if the recipients opt in receive the mails or not, from the point of view of spam black lists ??? Thanks again *De:*Ralf Hildebrandt ralf.hildebra...@charite.de *Para:* postfix-users@postfix.org *Enviado:* jueves, 4 de agosto de 2011 11:38 *Asunto:* Re: Sending massive mails * Alejandro Facultad alejandro_facul...@yahoo.com.ar mailto:alejandro_facul...@yahoo.com.ar: Dear, I have a Postfix mail server in my company and a person from here is asking to send massive mails to a list of 15.000 recipients in order to announce periodically our company's news. I think with've got the risk that our mail server may be considered a spam server, being included in some spam blacklist as Spamhaus and other. That could happen, unless the recipients opted in to receive these mails. I ask you: what is the recommendation to send legal massive mails ??? What is the better solution if I have to do that with Postfix ??? Thanks a lot Alejandro Facultad -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de mailto:ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de -- Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer Germany/Munich/Bavaria
Re: Sending massive mails
* Alejandro Facultad alejandro_facul...@yahoo.com.ar: Dear, I have a Postfix mail server in my company and a person from here is asking to send massive mails to a list of 15.000 recipients in order to announce periodically our company's news. I think with've got the risk that our mail server may be considered a spam server, being included in some spam blacklist as Spamhaus and other. That could happen, unless the recipients opted in to receive these mails. I ask you: what is the recommendation to send legal massive mails ??? What is the better solution if I have to do that with Postfix ??? Thanks a lot Alejandro Facultad -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de
Re: Sending massive mails
On 04/08/2011 15:22, Alejandro Facultad wrote: Dear, I have a Postfix mail server in my company and a person from here is asking to send massive mails to a list of 15.000 recipients in order to announce periodically our company's news. I think with've got the risk that our mail server may be considered a spam server, being included in some spam blacklist as Spamhaus and other. I ask you: what is the recommendation to send legal massive mails ??? What is the better solution if I have to do that with Postfix ??? This isn't really a Postfix query - Postfix is an MTA, and like all MTAs it will happily send spam just as easily as legitimate email :-) However, since you've asked, you are absolutely right that there is a danger of your server being listed as a spam source unless you are careful to follow best practice for sending legitimate bulk emails. In particular, you need to be sure that the following are true: 1. All of the recipients must have given their permission *to you* to be on *this* list. It is not enough to assume that permission given to another organisation will transfer to you, and it is not enough to assume that permission to be on another list extends to this one. 2. You must have, on your own database, a record of when and how this permission was given. You will need this because at least some people will mistakenly accuse you of being a spammer anyway, because they have forgotten that they subscribed. You need to be able to demonstrate that they are wrong. 3. You must have an automated system for handling bounces and unsubscriptions. Manually dealing with them will not be sufficient for a list this size. 4. You must ensure that the content of the message is legal in your jurisdiction. 5. If you do not know how to do all of the above without further instructions, then do not send bulk email from your system. If you really must send it anyway, then outsource it. The cost of paying an experienced, legitimate mailing service is trivial compared to the costs of being labelled a spammer. Mark -- Sent from my Babbage Difference Engine http://mark.goodge.co.uk http://www.ratemysupermarket.com
Re: Sending massive mails
* Alejandro Facultad alejandro_facul...@yahoo.com.ar: What is the difference if the recipients opt in receive the mails or not, from the point of view of spam black lists ??? If they opt-in, then it's not spam. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de
Re: Sending massive mails
If you are sending mail to a list of 15,000 people, you need processes to handle bounces and complaints, remove people who don't want to be on the list any more, and do all the rest of the stuff that's required for legitimate list management. Postfix is a dandy MTA, but it doesn't do that. Outsource your list to a competent ESP who already knows how to do it correctly. The modest cost is well worth it. For a list of that size, I'd look at Mailchip and Constant Contact. Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of The Internet for Dummies, Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Re: Sending massive mails
* John Levine jo...@iecc.com: If you are sending mail to a list of 15,000 people, you need processes to handle bounces and complaints, remove people who don't want to be on the list any more, and do all the rest of the stuff that's required for legitimate list management. Postfix is a dandy MTA, but it doesn't do that. Yes. Outsource your list to a competent ESP who already knows how to do it correctly. The modest cost is well worth it. For a list of that size, I'd look at Mailchip and Constant Contact. Mailchimp? -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de
Re: Sending massive mails
On 8/4/2011 9:57 AM, Alejandro Facultad wrote: What is the difference if the recipients opt in receive the mails or not, from the point of view of spam black lists ??? No difference, if you're referring to DNSBLs. Almost all are trap driven. So if you're sending to real customer addresses, you won't get listed on DNSBLs. If many of those 15K addresses are at gorilla receivers such as gmail, hotmail, yahoo, aol, you will run into delivery rate problems, this is spam button problems, etc. In which case you should read the list archives. This type of bulk sending, almost an identical scenario, was covered recently, within the last month or two. -- Stan
