Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
---+
  Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…   
 
  Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  closed   
 
  Priority:  minor |   Milestone:   
 
 Component:  potlatch2 | Version:   
 
Resolution:  fixed |Keywords:   
 
---+

Comment(by Petr Dlouhý):

 Thanks

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by Petr Dlouhý):

 Sorry for my overreaction, but I really think, it is serious problem. Here
 is another damaging edit from different user:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8093999

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by Richard):

 Sure. Like I said above, it could do. The reason why it doesn't yet, I
 guess, is because neither you nor I nor anyone has fixed it to do so. I'll
 do that at some point but my willingness to do so is not best helped by
 trac tickets screaming "critical" and ZOMG CORRUPTION THIS MUST BE FIXED.

 But as I keep saying: Potlatch _does_ make the user aware that they have
 extended the relation membership to a part of the way that was not
 previously a member. It does this by clearly rendering the way
 differently. The user is looking at the map so will see this.

 After all, should Potlatch pop up an alert saying "You changed the highway
 type from trunk to primary" every time you do that? Even though the change
 is reflected in a different rendering? And so on.

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by Petr Dlouhý):

 He doesn't made a mistake because he was distracted. He made a mistake,
 because he doesn't know, what he was doing and the editor didn't gave him
 an advice even if it could.

 Why does Potlatch warn if merging two ways with different tags, but does
 not when merging two ways with different relation membership? Isn't the
 situation identical?

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by Richard):

 Potlatch 2 renders route relations such as that. It has always done so,
 without any need for a plugin or alternative stylesheet or whatever.
 
 I don't see any evidence that this is an editor issue. It simply looks
 like a mapper who made a mistake. We can't completely stop that happening,
 you know. :)

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by Petr Dlouhý):

 This ticket is based on following commit (although it is not very clear
 from the commit page, that it do harm):
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8021768


 I am not sure, how far you want to go in rendering the relations. In JOSM
 is routes plugin (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Routes),
 which visualizes the hiking/bicycle/other relations (it can even draw
 parallel lines for more relations on one way).

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by Richard):

 The new combined way will be part of the relation. This has always been
 the case in all versions of Potlatch 1 and 2.

 Because Potlatch (1 and 2) generally renders relations, it should be
 immediately apparent to the user what their action has been. If there is a
 relation that is not adequately rendered by P2 - and that's certainly
 possible, because in P2 relation rendering is dictated by the stylesheet
 rather than being automatic as in P1 - then I'd very much like to hear of
 it so that I can fix it.

 P2 already floats a "check tags" advice bubble after merging ways (the
 warning is far too verbose and is therefore probably ignored by most
 users, which needs fixing). That could potentially be "check tags and
 relations" in these cases, but again, users don't read warnings. Fixing
 rendering is the first half of the proper way to do it; the second half is
 to have a friendly "mapping quality" palette (in a much less prescriptive
 way than the existing validator tools) but that's a long-term aim that
 will take time to do properly.

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-

Comment(by woodpeck):

 Could either of you, for the benefit of others reading this, explain
 *what* exactly Potlatch does in the case discusssed? Will the new,
 combined way be part of the relation or will it not? Or does it depend on
 whichever way was selected first? Properly documenting this would go a
 long way to avoiding problems, even without any change to the code, I
 should think.

 As for popping up warnings, I think Potlatch has on a number of other
 occasions already gone a different way - instead of "are you sure you want
 to delete 12345 nodes", Potlatch would say "deleted 12345 nodes - hit
 Ctrl-Z to undo" or something. Maybe it is possible to do something similar
 with way merges in the situation that Peter described.

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Re: [Potlatch-dev] [OpenStreetMap] #3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations

[OpenStreetMap]

#3777: Potlach 2 doesn't warn, when corrupting relations
--+-
 Reporter:  petr.dlouhy@… |   Owner:  potlatch-dev@…
 Type:  enhancement   |  Status:  new   
 Priority:  minor |   Milestone:
Component:  potlatch2 | Version:
 Keywords:|  
--+-
Changes (by Richard):

  * priority:  critical => minor
  * type:  defect => enhancement


Comment:

 a) This is not remotely critical.

 b) "Corruption" is not remotely the right word. Are the relations still
 well-formed? Yes. Therefore they are not corrupted.

 c) In most cases, Potlatch 2 renders ways that are part of relations
 (routes, turn restrictions, multipolygons) differently. It is therefore
 easy for the user to see the effect of their actions. Several years'
 experience shows me that accidental merges of a relation-ed way with
 another are almost entirely done in JOSM, which AIUI until the new P2-like
 MapCSS rendering didn't actually show relation-ed ways differently at all.
 For example, http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8198740 was
 mending extensive damage to a route relation by a JOSM user. Generally I
 have to do this several times a week.

 d) If you there is a particular type of relation that is not adequately
 rendered in P2 and so the user can't see what they've done, please cite it
 here, rather than coming up with a vague handwavy ticket like this.

 e) Popping up warnings ("Do this! Look at that! Do the other") is terrible
 UI and is generally ignored by most people.

 f) Please learn to spell Potlatch, kthxbye.

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