PPIG 2011
The dates for submitting papers to PPIG 2011 are approaching! Submission templates are now on the website, which is here: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/ppig2011/ Regrettably the template for LaTex still makes you use the horrible numbered format, so that readers have to keep skipping to the back to find out who [1] is. Is there anyone out there who is competent to change it to the Name (year) format, AND who has time and inclination to do so? if so, I'd be very grateful if you could send me an improved version. Let me know if the templates give you any hassle. Registration details shouldn't be long now. Come and see the City of York. Thomas Green Visiting Professor University of York -- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
RE: Call for advice, and possible case study?
I fully agree on both:
1- Don't teach Java.
2- before learning _Java_, it pays to learn something about _programming_, and
that's definitely easier using Python than using Java.
This is based on my personal experience of teaching programming to First year
undergraduate students.
Regards,
Stasha
From: Richard O'Keefe [o...@cs.otago.ac.nz]
Sent: 10 June 2011 01:38
To: Rebecca Yates
Cc: PPIG Listserve
Subject: Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?
On 9/06/2011, at 11:53 PM, Rebecca Yates wrote:
The aim of the program is to give the participants a strong grounding in how
computers work, how networks and the Internet works, and how to write
software using the Java programming language and a variety of other software
tools.
The participants will understand how quality software is developed, how to
find information to help them solve problems, and hopefully they will learn
that programming is a fun and rewarding activity.
This is because they're having trouble hiring good graduates, so they are
hoping to nurture a few of their own. Does PPIG have any advice for them?
Yes. Don't teach Java.
Java has some seriously strange syntax which can only be justified historically.
Suppose you want to start with printing the sum of 3 and 4.
Compare
public class SumOfThreeAndFour {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println(3+4);
}
}
with
print 3+4;
We have an introductory paper (COMP 160 : www.cs.otago.ac.nz/comp160) that
uses Java. That page has a link to http://norvig.com/21-days.html, which
the Annadale Technology people would benefit from reading.
We have an introductory paper (COMP 150 : the web material is locked up in
Blackboard, sorry) that uses Python. I'm not involved with either paper,
but the HOD, who runs COMP 150, has been very happy with the results, and
it is now recommended as suitable ... as preparation for .. COMP 160.
That is, before learning _Java_, it pays to learn something about
_programming_, and that's definitely easier using Python than using Java.
Python is certainly good enough to do serious Internet programming and
graphics.
There seems to be something about Java that rots the mind; students seem
to have real trouble producing quality software in it. There are some
amazing power tools (like JML checkers) that you can plug into Eclipse,
-but- you have to be a pretty good programmer to get any benefit from them.
Eclipse seems to be mainly useful for helping people write vast amounts of
code that would not be necessary in a higher level language.
If Annadale insist on sticking with Java, they should look at the BlueJ
environment and then look at DrJava, environments designed for beginners.
I must say that I find the plain old interactive text interface of Python
more supportive than BlueJ...
Disclaimer: I am not a Python programmer, but I have colleagues and
have supervised students who are. I've found their code easy to read,
even though I couldn't (yet) have written it.
--
The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt
charity in England Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
RE: Call for advice, and possible case study?
On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 19:47 +0100, Stasha Lauria wrote: I fully agree on both: 1- Don't teach Java. 2- before learning _Java_, it pays to learn something about _programming_, and that's definitely easier using Python than using Java. This is based on my personal experience of teaching programming to First year undergraduate students. Graham Roberts at UCL is using Groovy and Sarah Mount at Wolverhampton and James Shuttleworth at Coventry are using Python to great effect. The folk at Leeds are using Python also I believe. The big problem though is the the issue of type. Believers in static strong typing will object to the use of languages that work with dynamic typing even though learners seem to find it easier to do things without having to worry about types in the first instance. I guess someone somewhere needs to do some experimentation rather than there just be anecdotal evidence and advocacy research? -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
RE: Call for advice, and possible case study?
In this paper (http://www.ics.heacademy.ac.uk/italics/download.php?file=italics/vol10iss1/pdfs/paper10.pdf) we have presented a quantitative evaluation. These initial results suggest that the python approach leads to some improvements for learning introductory programming concepts (such as loops, conditional, etc) by students. stasha From: Russel Winder [rus...@russel.org.uk] Sent: 10 June 2011 20:07 To: Stasha Lauria Cc: Richard O'Keefe; Rebecca Yates; PPIG Listserve Subject: RE: Call for advice, and possible case study? On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 19:47 +0100, Stasha Lauria wrote: I fully agree on both: 1- Don't teach Java. 2- before learning _Java_, it pays to learn something about _programming_, and that's definitely easier using Python than using Java. This is based on my personal experience of teaching programming to First year undergraduate students. Graham Roberts at UCL is using Groovy and Sarah Mount at Wolverhampton and James Shuttleworth at Coventry are using Python to great effect. The folk at Leeds are using Python also I believe. The big problem though is the the issue of type. Believers in static strong typing will object to the use of languages that work with dynamic typing even though learners seem to find it easier to do things without having to worry about types in the first instance. I guess someone somewhere needs to do some experimentation rather than there just be anecdotal evidence and advocacy research? -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder -- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
Re: Call for advice, and possible case study?
My two cents... Use whatever route to Java proficiency the instructor happens to feel most passionately about. If they really believe the argument that INSERT_LANGUAGE_HERE first works well, then let them do it that way. If they feel strongly that they can teach Java first, let them do it that way. The primary component of a curriculum is the instructor and their belief and excitement for what they are doing. Someone who believes in teaching Java first and is excited about doing it that way (and slightly skeptical of Python) will have much greater success teaching Java first as opposed to Python then Java. If the instructor is apathetic about the approach, then fire the instructor and hire another who cares enough about the topic to have opinions (even if those opinions are tenuous). No matter the route to learning Java, the final learning objectives are the same for this company. They know what they think they want employees to know. The various routes to getting there each have positive and negative trade-offs. But, they are a moot point without a decent instructor who believes in the students, the learning objectives, and the route to which the learning objectives are accomplished within the context of the curriculum. There are countless papers over decades on why one approach is better than another. Their utility isn't in actually finding the right method, but instead as a mechanism for instructors to find the method that works for them given their interests, strengths, abilities, and experience. As a simple example, one instructor may be fantastic at the Socratic method while another cannot do it at all. Likewise, one may be really good at explaining the relevance and utility and history of the Java syntax as a teaching instrument in itself, while another hates it so much that they cannot make themselves be excited about it. John Daughtry On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Russel Winder rus...@russel.org.uk wrote: On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 19:47 +0100, Stasha Lauria wrote: I fully agree on both: 1- Don't teach Java. 2- before learning _Java_, it pays to learn something about _programming_, and that's definitely easier using Python than using Java. This is based on my personal experience of teaching programming to First year undergraduate students. Graham Roberts at UCL is using Groovy and Sarah Mount at Wolverhampton and James Shuttleworth at Coventry are using Python to great effect. The folk at Leeds are using Python also I believe. The big problem though is the the issue of type. Believers in static strong typing will object to the use of languages that work with dynamic typing even though learners seem to find it easier to do things without having to worry about types in the first instance. I guess someone somewhere needs to do some experimentation rather than there just be anecdotal evidence and advocacy research? -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder -- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
