Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[Christopher Gilland]

Oops? I think I accidentally sent this to chuck privately instead of the 
list. Ooops? Anyway, I'm using input monitoring through PT, not direct 
monitor. As for the headphones, it's definitely definitely the headphone 
amp, not the mike pre. That I can guarantee.



Chris.

On 12/12/2019 12:59 PM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Steve,
Your Clip gain method will avoid any "latency" introduced by the gain 
plug in.

Its quick and your done.!! :)
HTH
Chuck
"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:34 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:

Pretty much my suggestion regarding clip gain. Trim plug in does the 
same just its done  as a plug in insert as well. Chris regarding your 
noise on the headphones when you turn it up, unless that noise is the 
headphone  amp and not coming from the mic pre, you will have the 
same issue if you boost the level inside of protools instead of 
turning down clip gain.  The other question here is are you using 
direct monitoring on the interface or input monitoring through pro 
tools? I’d suggest turning direct monitoring off and using input 
monitoring myself.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:30 PM, > > wrote:


Why not use a trem plugin on the music track and turn it down until 
it feels under the microphone?
*From:*ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
>*On Behalf Of*Christopher Gilland

*Sent:*Thursday, December 12, 2019 12:23 PM
*To:*ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
*Subject:*Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue 
in ProTools, please please help!
Does that work though with monitoring in my cans before recording? 
That's the main issue. I know how to turn it back up after it's 
recorded, but the issue isn't after recorded. It's before. I'm 
trying to get it where at such a low level during the actual 
tracking process, I can hear what I need to hear through my cans 
without having to crank them to high heaven to compensate for the 
lower input signal.

Chris.
On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially 
considering iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the 
volume has been lowered on them. Just use clip gain to lower the 
instrumental track and it basically does everything Sweetwater told 
you to do in one simple step.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Slau,
What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in 
iTunes before importing it to PT.
I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that 
is lowered to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my 
vocal track, but here's the catch. They told me, then, also add a 
stereo master fader. Then, take that master fader, and only use it 
as a gain adder. Meaning, you're not really per sé doing anything 
with the master fader more than using it to add gain. Then, move 
that master fader volume from it's default 0DB location back up to 
reach the normal audible level. Presto! Done!
I was always under the impression you really don't want a master 
fader though unless you're literally doing mastering type 
techniques. Or is that just it though: you kind of *are!* doing a 
mastering technique by doing this. All be it, you're not really 
doing anything substantial with the fader more than adding gain, 
but... still... Is that a way to go, or like me, can you see some 
potential problems with this method. I'm not really planning to 
add any final processing to the over all master mix like 
compression, dithering, final e queueing etc.

Chris.
On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate 
your vocal recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the 
vocal to a comparable quality of compression and remix the two. 
You'll probably end up having to limit your vocal some if the 
music was mastered particularly hot.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time 
back, but the answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, 
and this is of no offense to any of you all, weren't very 
helpful at the time. That's no fault of you all. It might have 
just been my knowledge/experience at that time was not of such 
that I could fully grasp the concepts.



Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled 
like crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and 
just Googling in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.



I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased 
instrumental tracks, so I'm not really normally working with 
stems. Once in a while, I'll do something which takes more than 
2 tracks, one for the music, one for my vofal, but that's rare. 
Regardless, this is occuring.

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[Slau Halatyn]

Forget what Sweetwater told you. Lower your music track enough so you can get a 
decent level on the vocal for recording. Maximize your output once you're done 
with the vocal. Blend the two carefully and you're done. This is not for 
commercial release so don't sweat it.


> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Slau,
> 
> 
> 
> What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes before 
> importing it to PT.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is lowered 
> to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, but here's 
> the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master fader. Then, take 
> that master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. Meaning, you're not 
> really per sé doing anything with the master fader more than using it to add 
> gain. Then, move that master fader volume from it's default 0DB location back 
> up to reach the normal audible level. Presto! Done!
> 
> 
> 
> I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader though 
> unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is that just it 
> though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by doing this. All be 
> it, you're not really doing anything substantial with the fader more than 
> adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or like me, can you see 
> some potential problems with this method. I'm not really planning to add any 
> final processing to the over all master mix like compression, dithering, 
> final e queueing etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris.
> 
> On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>> Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your vocal 
>> recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a comparable 
>> quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end up having to 
>> limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly hot.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
>>> answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense 
>>> to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of you 
>>> all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was not 
>>> of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like crazy. 
>>> I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling in 
>>> general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
>>> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, 
>>> I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one 
>>> for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain on 
>>> the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to get 
>>> good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be 
>>> balanced with the music track.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain unity 
>>> 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This means 
>>> anything I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my master 
>>> over that 0 no no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the only way 
>>> I could get any good volume on my mike input.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're working 
>>> with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know enough at least 
>>> about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 interface, and the 
>>> first generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. Let me be clear. This is 
>>> the Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, the first gen, not the 2nd, nor 
>>> the beta.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm finding 
>>> that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm on my peeks 
>>> hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and again, that's on the 
>>> loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's much much better.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that low, I 
>>> can't hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have to get around 
>>> -2 to 0DB in my peek meter on the output of the vocal track in PT before I 
>>> can really hear myself well.. Also, when playing things back, it's barely 
>>> audible.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or for that 
>>> mind, patching it directly in the scarlet. As for my vocal, I get that to 
>>> hear it well in my cans, and on the final mix I could pop a compressor on 
>>> the vocal, like the Gray compressor, and set it to a preset like 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Steve,
Your Clip gain method will avoid any "latency" introduced by the gain plug in.
Its quick and your done.!! :)
HTH
Chuck
"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:34 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:

> Pretty much my suggestion regarding clip gain. Trim plug in does the same 
> just its done  as a plug in insert as well. Chris regarding your noise on the 
> headphones when you turn it up, unless that noise is the headphone  amp and 
> not coming from the mic pre, you will have the same issue if you boost the 
> level inside of protools instead of turning down clip gain.  The other 
> question here is are you using direct monitoring on the interface or input 
> monitoring through pro tools? I’d suggest turning direct monitoring off and 
> using input monitoring myself. 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:30 PM,   
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Why not use a trem plugin on the music track and turn it down until it feels 
>> under the microphone? 
>>  
>> From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Christopher Gilland
>> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 12:23 PM
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in 
>> ProTools, please please help!
>>  
>> Does that work though with monitoring in my cans before recording? That's 
>> the main issue. I know how to turn it back up after it's recorded, but the 
>> issue isn't after recorded. It's before. I'm trying to get it where at such 
>> a low level during the actual tracking process, I can hear what I need to 
>> hear through my cans without having to crank them to high heaven to 
>> compensate for the lower input signal.
>>  
>> Chris.
>> On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>>> I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially considering 
>>> iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the volume has been 
>>> lowered on them. Just use clip gain to lower the instrumental track and it 
>>> basically does everything Sweetwater told you to do in one simple step.  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
 On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland  
 wrote:
  
 Slau,
  
 What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes 
 before importing it to PT.
  
 I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is 
 lowered to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, 
 but here's the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master fader. 
 Then, take that master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. Meaning, 
 you're not really per sé doing anything with the master fader more than 
 using it to add gain. Then, move that master fader volume from it's 
 default 0DB location back up to reach the normal audible level. Presto! 
 Done!
  
 I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader 
 though unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is that 
 just it though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by doing 
 this. All be it, you're not really doing anything substantial with the 
 fader more than adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or like 
 me, can you see some potential problems with this method. I'm not really 
 planning to add any final processing to the over all master mix like 
 compression, dithering, final e queueing etc.
  
 Chris.
 On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
> Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your 
> vocal recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a 
> comparable quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end 
> up having to limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly 
> hot. 
>  
> 
> 
>> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>>  
>> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but 
>> the answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no 
>> offense to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no 
>> fault of you all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience at 
>> that time was not of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.
>> 
>> 
>> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like 
>> crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just 
>> Googling in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
>> 
>> 
>> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
>> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, 
>> I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one 
>> for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
>> 
>> 
>> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain 
>> on 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[TheOreoMonster]

Pretty much my suggestion regarding clip gain. Trim plug in does the same just 
its done  as a plug in insert as well. Chris regarding your noise on the 
headphones when you turn it up, unless that noise is the headphone  amp and not 
coming from the mic pre, you will have the same issue if you boost the level 
inside of protools instead of turning down clip gain.  The other question here 
is are you using direct monitoring on the interface or input monitoring through 
pro tools? I’d suggest turning direct monitoring off and using input monitoring 
myself. 


> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:30 PM,   
> wrote:
> 
> Why not use a trem plugin on the music track and turn it down until it feels 
> under the microphone? 
>  
> From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com  
> mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Gilland
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 12:23 PM
> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in 
> ProTools, please please help!
>  
> Does that work though with monitoring in my cans before recording? That's the 
> main issue. I know how to turn it back up after it's recorded, but the issue 
> isn't after recorded. It's before. I'm trying to get it where at such a low 
> level during the actual tracking process, I can hear what I need to hear 
> through my cans without having to crank them to high heaven to compensate for 
> the lower input signal.
>  
> Chris.
> On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>> I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially considering 
>> iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the volume has been 
>> lowered on them. Just use clip gain to lower the instrumental track and it 
>> basically does everything Sweetwater told you to do in one simple step.  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland >> > wrote:
>>>  
>>> Slau,
>>>  
>>> What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes 
>>> before importing it to PT.
>>>  
>>> I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is lowered 
>>> to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, but here's 
>>> the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master fader. Then, take 
>>> that master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. Meaning, you're not 
>>> really per sé doing anything with the master fader more than using it to 
>>> add gain. Then, move that master fader volume from it's default 0DB 
>>> location back up to reach the normal audible level. Presto! Done!
>>>  
>>> I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader 
>>> though unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is that 
>>> just it though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by doing 
>>> this. All be it, you're not really doing anything substantial with the 
>>> fader more than adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or like 
>>> me, can you see some potential problems with this method. I'm not really 
>>> planning to add any final processing to the over all master mix like 
>>> compression, dithering, final e queueing etc.
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>> On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
 Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your 
 vocal recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a 
 comparable quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end 
 up having to limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly 
 hot. 
  
 
 
> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland  > wrote:
>  
> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
> answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense 
> to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of 
> you all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was 
> not of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.
> 
> 
> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like 
> crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling 
> in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
> 
> 
> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, 
> I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one 
> for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
> 
> 
> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain 
> on the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to 
> get good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be 
> balanced with the music track.
> 

RE: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[mcdiemert]

Why not use a trem plugin on the music track and turn it down until it feels 
under the microphone? 

 

From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Christopher Gilland
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 12:23 PM
To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, 
please please help!

 

Does that work though with monitoring in my cans before recording? That's the 
main issue. I know how to turn it back up after it's recorded, but the issue 
isn't after recorded. It's before. I'm trying to get it where at such a low 
level during the actual tracking process, I can hear what I need to hear 
through my cans without having to crank them to high heaven to compensate for 
the lower input signal.

 

Chris.

On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:

I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially considering 
iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the volume has been lowered 
on them. Just use clip gain to lower the instrumental track and it basically 
does everything Sweetwater told you to do in one simple step.  

 





On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Slau,

 

What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes before 
importing it to PT.

 

I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is lowered to 
fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, but here's the 
catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master fader. Then, take that 
master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. Meaning, you're not really per 
sé doing anything with the master fader more than using it to add gain. Then, 
move that master fader volume from it's default 0DB location back up to reach 
the normal audible level. Presto! Done!

 

I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader though 
unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is that just it 
though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by doing this. All be 
it, you're not really doing anything substantial with the fader more than 
adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or like me, can you see some 
potential problems with this method. I'm not really planning to add any final 
processing to the over all master mix like compression, dithering, final e 
queueing etc.

 

Chris.

On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:

Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your vocal 
recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a comparable 
quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end up having to 
limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly hot. 

 





On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense to 
any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of you all. 
It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was not of such 
that I could fully grasp the concepts.


Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like crazy. I 
spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling in general and 
am coming up pretty much empty handed.


I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental tracks, 
so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, I'll do 
something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one for my vofal, 
but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.


In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain on the 
mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to get good 
audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be balanced with 
the music track.


Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain unity 0, 
which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This means anything I 
drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my master over that 0 no no 
limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the only way I could get any good 
volume on my mike input.


So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're working with. 
This interface is popular enough, surely you all know enough at least about it 
to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 interface, and the first 
generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. Let me be clear. This is the 
Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, the first gen, not the 2nd, nor the beta.


Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm finding 
that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm on my peeks 
hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and again, that's on the 
loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's much much better.


The problem is, when 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[TheOreoMonster]

Why not just crank the headphone output so you can hear it during recording. 
Just turn VoiceOver’s Volume down you can do this quickly by using 
VO+Shift+Command+ left or Right arrows to find VoiceOver’s Volume, and then 
using VO+Shift+Command+Up and down arrows to turn the volume up or down. This 
allows you to adjust VO volume on the fly without leaving pro tools.  Once you 
are done you can turn VoiceOver back up and turn the volume back down on the 
headphones. Use Notification Center to turn on do not disturb while recording 
so you aren’t interrupted with any system sounds while recording so nothing 
will blast your ears out. 


> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:22 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Does that work though with monitoring in my cans before recording? That's the 
> main issue. I know how to turn it back up after it's recorded, but the issue 
> isn't after recorded. It's before. I'm trying to get it where at such a low 
> level during the actual tracking process, I can hear what I need to hear 
> through my cans without having to crank them to high heaven to compensate for 
> the lower input signal.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris.
> 
> On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
>> I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially considering 
>> iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the volume has been 
>> lowered on them. Just use clip gain to lower the instrumental track and it 
>> basically does everything Sweetwater told you to do in one simple step. 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Slau,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes 
>>> before importing it to PT.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is lowered 
>>> to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, but here's 
>>> the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master fader. Then, take 
>>> that master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. Meaning, you're not 
>>> really per sé doing anything with the master fader more than using it to 
>>> add gain. Then, move that master fader volume from it's default 0DB 
>>> location back up to reach the normal audible level. Presto! Done!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader 
>>> though unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is that 
>>> just it though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by doing 
>>> this. All be it, you're not really doing anything substantial with the 
>>> fader more than adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or like 
>>> me, can you see some potential problems with this method. I'm not really 
>>> planning to add any final processing to the over all master mix like 
>>> compression, dithering, final e queueing etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
 Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your 
 vocal recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a 
 comparable quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end 
 up having to limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly 
 hot.
 
 
> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland  > wrote:
> 
> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
> answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense 
> to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of 
> you all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was 
> not of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.
> 
> 
> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like 
> crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling 
> in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
> 
> 
> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, 
> I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one 
> for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
> 
> 
> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain 
> on the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to 
> get good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be 
> balanced with the music track.
> 
> 
> Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain 
> unity 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This means 
> anything I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my master 
> over that 0 no no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the only 
> way I could 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[Christopher Gilland]

Does that work though with monitoring in my cans before recording? 
That's the main issue. I know how to turn it back up after it's 
recorded, but the issue isn't after recorded. It's before. I'm trying to 
get it where at such a low level during the actual tracking process, I 
can hear what I need to hear through my cans without having to crank 
them to high heaven to compensate for the lower input signal.



Chris.

On 12/12/2019 12:19 PM, TheOreoMonster wrote:
I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially 
considering iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the 
volume has been lowered on them. Just use clip gain to lower the 
instrumental track and it basically does everything Sweetwater told 
you to do in one simple step.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Slau,


What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in 
iTunes before importing it to PT.



I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is 
lowered to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal 
track, but here's the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo 
master fader. Then, take that master fader, and only use it as a gain 
adder. Meaning, you're not really per sé doing anything with the 
master fader more than using it to add gain. Then, move that master 
fader volume from it's default 0DB location back up to reach the 
normal audible level. Presto! Done!



I was always under the impression you really don't want a master 
fader though unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. 
Or is that just it though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering 
technique by doing this. All be it, you're not really doing anything 
substantial with the fader more than adding gain, but... still... Is 
that a way to go, or like me, can you see some potential problems 
with this method. I'm not really planning to add any final processing 
to the over all master mix like compression, dithering, final e 
queueing etc.



Chris.

On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate 
your vocal recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the 
vocal to a comparable quality of compression and remix the two. 
You'll probably end up having to limit your vocal some if the music 
was mastered particularly hot.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, 
but the answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is 
of no offense to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. 
That's no fault of you all. It might have just been my 
knowledge/experience at that time was not of such that I could 
fully grasp the concepts.



Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled 
like crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and 
just Googling in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.



I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased 
instrumental tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. 
Once in a while, I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, 
one for the music, one for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, 
this is occuring.



In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input 
gain on the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up 
enough to get good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed 
the level to be balanced with the music track.



Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at 
gain unity 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. 
This means anything I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna 
push my master over that 0 no no limit. But! I had to. Or so I 
thought. It's the only way I could get any good volume on my mike 
input.



So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're 
working with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know 
enough at least about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 
2I2 interface, and the first generation of a Blue Bluebird 
microphone. Let me be clear. This is the Bluebird, not the baby 
bottle. Again, the first gen, not the 2nd, nor the beta.



Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm 
finding that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, 
I'm on my peeks hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and 
again, that's on the loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's 
much much better.



The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that 
low, I can't hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have 
to get around -2 to 0DB in my peek meter on the output of the vocal 
track in PT before I can really hear myself well.. Also, when 
playing things back, it's barely audible.



Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or 
for that 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[TheOreoMonster]

I am surprised they gave you that complicat setup, especially considering 
iTunes doesn’t give you a way to export tracks once the volume has been lowered 
on them. Just use clip gain to lower the instrumental track and it basically 
does everything Sweetwater told you to do in one simple step. 


> On Dec 12, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Slau,
> 
> 
> 
> What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes before 
> importing it to PT.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is lowered 
> to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, but here's 
> the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master fader. Then, take 
> that master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. Meaning, you're not 
> really per sé doing anything with the master fader more than using it to add 
> gain. Then, move that master fader volume from it's default 0DB location back 
> up to reach the normal audible level. Presto! Done!
> 
> 
> 
> I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader though 
> unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is that just it 
> though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by doing this. All be 
> it, you're not really doing anything substantial with the fader more than 
> adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or like me, can you see 
> some potential problems with this method. I'm not really planning to add any 
> final processing to the over all master mix like compression, dithering, 
> final e queueing etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris.
> 
> On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
>> Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your vocal 
>> recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a comparable 
>> quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end up having to 
>> limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly hot.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
>>> answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense 
>>> to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of you 
>>> all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was not 
>>> of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like crazy. 
>>> I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling in 
>>> general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
>>> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, 
>>> I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one 
>>> for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain on 
>>> the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to get 
>>> good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be 
>>> balanced with the music track.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain unity 
>>> 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This means 
>>> anything I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my master 
>>> over that 0 no no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the only way 
>>> I could get any good volume on my mike input.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're working 
>>> with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know enough at least 
>>> about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 interface, and the 
>>> first generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. Let me be clear. This is 
>>> the Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, the first gen, not the 2nd, nor 
>>> the beta.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm finding 
>>> that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm on my peeks 
>>> hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and again, that's on the 
>>> loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's much much better.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that low, I 
>>> can't hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have to get around 
>>> -2 to 0DB in my peek meter on the output of the vocal track in PT before I 
>>> can really hear myself well.. Also, when playing things back, it's barely 
>>> audible.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or for that 
>>> mind, patching it directly in the scarlet. As for my vocal, I get that to 
>>> hear it well in my cans, and on the final mix I could pop a compressor on 
>>> the vocal, like the Gray compressor, and 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[Christopher Gilland]

Slau,


What Sweetwater actually told me is, lower the karaoke track in iTunes 
before importing it to PT.



I'm not totally sure how to do that, but anyway, then, once that is 
lowered to fit my vocal level, import into PT, then add my vocal track, 
but here's the catch. They told me, then, also add a stereo master 
fader. Then, take that master fader, and only use it as a gain adder. 
Meaning, you're not really per sé doing anything with the master fader 
more than using it to add gain. Then, move that master fader volume from 
it's default 0DB location back up to reach the normal audible level. 
Presto! Done!



I was always under the impression you really don't want a master fader 
though unless you're literally doing mastering type techniques. Or is 
that just it though: you kind of *are!* doing a mastering technique by 
doing this. All be it, you're not really doing anything substantial with 
the fader more than adding gain, but... still... Is that a way to go, or 
like me, can you see some potential problems with this method. I'm not 
really planning to add any final processing to the over all master mix 
like compression, dithering, final e queueing etc.



Chris.

On 12/12/2019 11:27 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote:
Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your 
vocal recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to 
a comparable quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably 
end up having to limit your vocal some if the music was mastered 
particularly hot.



On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but 
the answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no 
offense to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's 
no fault of you all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience 
at that time was not of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.



Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like 
crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just 
Googling in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.



I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased 
instrumental tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. 
Once in a while, I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, 
one for the music, one for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, 
this is occuring.



In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input 
gain on the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up 
enough to get good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed 
the level to be balanced with the music track.



Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain 
unity 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This 
means anything I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push 
my master over that 0 no no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. 
It's the only way I could get any good volume on my mike input.



So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're 
working with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know 
enough at least about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 
interface, and the first generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. 
Let me be clear. This is the Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, 
the first gen, not the 2nd, nor the beta.



Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm 
finding that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm 
on my peeks hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and 
again, that's on the loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's 
much much better.



The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that low, 
I can't hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have to get 
around -2 to 0DB in my peek meter on the output of the vocal track in 
PT before I can really hear myself well.. Also, when playing things 
back, it's barely audible.



Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or 
for that mind, patching it directly in the scarlet. As for my vocal, 
I get that to hear it well in my cans, and on the final mix I could 
pop a compressor on the vocal, like the Gray compressor, and set it 
to a preset like steady, which very very significantly does boost the 
volume. The only issue is, no, I'm not clipping, but adding 
compression for the simple reason to boost that output gain is a 
horrible! idea in most cases. It's adding color, sometimes 
saturation, etc. that I definitely do not want into the mix taking 
away the natural beauty of the vocal characteristics.



Yes, I could get a pre like a cloud lifter, but that's gonna present 
the same issue. You turn up that input, bam! now you're clippen 
again. I don't think the issue is on my input side. - I'm fully 
convinced of that. This is an output thing. As level wize, my peek 
meter in PT 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[TheOreoMonster]

Use Clip gain to bring down the level of the instrumental track so you can hear 
your vocals as needed. Once you mix your vocals you can use clip gain to adjust 
the level of the instrumental track back up a little if you need to get it to 
blend with the vocals better. 

> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
> answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense to 
> any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of you all. 
> It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was not of such 
> that I could fully grasp the concepts.
> 
> 
> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like crazy. I 
> spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling in general 
> and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
> 
> 
> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, I'll 
> do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one for my 
> vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
> 
> 
> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain on 
> the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to get good 
> audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be balanced with 
> the music track.
> 
> 
> Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain unity 
> 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This means anything 
> I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my master over that 0 no 
> no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the only way I could get any 
> good volume on my mike input.
> 
> 
> So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're working 
> with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know enough at least 
> about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 interface, and the 
> first generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. Let me be clear. This is the 
> Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, the first gen, not the 2nd, nor the 
> beta.
> 
> 
> Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm finding 
> that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm on my peeks 
> hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and again, that's on the 
> loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's much much better.
> 
> 
> The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that low, I can't 
> hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have to get around -2 to 0DB 
> in my peek meter on the output of the vocal track in PT before I can really 
> hear myself well.. Also, when playing things back, it's barely audible.
> 
> 
> Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or for that 
> mind, patching it directly in the scarlet. As for my vocal, I get that to 
> hear it well in my cans, and on the final mix I could pop a compressor on the 
> vocal, like the Gray compressor, and set it to a preset like steady, which 
> very very significantly does boost the volume. The only issue is, no, I'm not 
> clipping, but adding compression for the simple reason to boost that output 
> gain is a horrible! idea in most cases. It's adding color, sometimes 
> saturation, etc. that I definitely do not want into the mix taking away the 
> natural beauty of the vocal characteristics.
> 
> 
> Yes, I could get a pre like a cloud lifter, but that's gonna present the same 
> issue. You turn up that input, bam! now you're clippen again. I don't think 
> the issue is on my input side. - I'm fully convinced of that. This is an 
> output thing. As level wize, my peek meter in PT is showing just fine at -13 
> roughly.
> 
> 
> I know I also could turn down the music track. Way down. Then, add a 
> stereo master fader track, and turn it's output volume slider way way up to 
> compensate, but is that really the best methodology? I have to run that thing 
> with no plugs on the master fader up to nearly positive 8 or 9 DB to get the 
> volume back to normal comfortable listening. Remember. I'm trying to 
> compensate for that lower -13DB level going in.
> 
> 
> I don't think the Scarlet has a separate IO path output just for headphones 
> alone, so I can't exactly create a bus in the IO settings, then send to it 
> individually creating a submix.
> 
> 
> On the master fader though, again, going to +8 or 9 DB... yeah! That's barely 
> giving any headroom at all. Maybe I have a ton on the mike, but, yeah. I get 
> I could turn up the output level itself on the vocal track but is that really 
> a safe thing to do? I was always told you wana try keeping your vocal tracks 
> output volume sliders as close to that default 0DB as possible. Only interact 
> with Voiceover on those sliders and crank them as a very last resort. I'm 
> told 

Re: I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[Slau Halatyn]

Turn down the mastered track to a manageable level to accommodate your vocal 
recording. Once you've recorded the vocal, process the vocal to a comparable 
quality of compression and remix the two. You'll probably end up having to 
limit your vocal some if the music was mastered particularly hot.


> On Dec 12, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but the 
> answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no offense to 
> any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no fault of you all. 
> It might have just been my knowledge/experience at that time was not of such 
> that I could fully grasp the concepts.
> 
> 
> Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like crazy. I 
> spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just Googling in general 
> and am coming up pretty much empty handed.
> 
> 
> I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
> tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, I'll 
> do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one for my 
> vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.
> 
> 
> In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain on 
> the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to get good 
> audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be balanced with 
> the music track.
> 
> 
> Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain unity 
> 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This means anything 
> I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my master over that 0 no 
> no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the only way I could get any 
> good volume on my mike input.
> 
> 
> So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're working 
> with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know enough at least 
> about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 interface, and the 
> first generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. Let me be clear. This is the 
> Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, the first gen, not the 2nd, nor the 
> beta.
> 
> 
> Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm finding 
> that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm on my peeks 
> hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and again, that's on the 
> loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's much much better.
> 
> 
> The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that low, I can't 
> hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have to get around -2 to 0DB 
> in my peek meter on the output of the vocal track in PT before I can really 
> hear myself well.. Also, when playing things back, it's barely audible.
> 
> 
> Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or for that 
> mind, patching it directly in the scarlet. As for my vocal, I get that to 
> hear it well in my cans, and on the final mix I could pop a compressor on the 
> vocal, like the Gray compressor, and set it to a preset like steady, which 
> very very significantly does boost the volume. The only issue is, no, I'm not 
> clipping, but adding compression for the simple reason to boost that output 
> gain is a horrible! idea in most cases. It's adding color, sometimes 
> saturation, etc. that I definitely do not want into the mix taking away the 
> natural beauty of the vocal characteristics.
> 
> 
> Yes, I could get a pre like a cloud lifter, but that's gonna present the same 
> issue. You turn up that input, bam! now you're clippen again. I don't think 
> the issue is on my input side. - I'm fully convinced of that. This is an 
> output thing. As level wize, my peek meter in PT is showing just fine at -13 
> roughly.
> 
> 
> I know I also could turn down the music track. Way down. Then, add a 
> stereo master fader track, and turn it's output volume slider way way up to 
> compensate, but is that really the best methodology? I have to run that thing 
> with no plugs on the master fader up to nearly positive 8 or 9 DB to get the 
> volume back to normal comfortable listening. Remember. I'm trying to 
> compensate for that lower -13DB level going in.
> 
> 
> I don't think the Scarlet has a separate IO path output just for headphones 
> alone, so I can't exactly create a bus in the IO settings, then send to it 
> individually creating a submix.
> 
> 
> On the master fader though, again, going to +8 or 9 DB... yeah! That's barely 
> giving any headroom at all. Maybe I have a ton on the mike, but, yeah. I get 
> I could turn up the output level itself on the vocal track but is that really 
> a safe thing to do? I was always told you wana try keeping your vocal tracks 
> output volume sliders as close to that default 0DB as possible. Only interact 
> with Voiceover on those sliders and crank them as a very 

I don't know how to deal with this gain staging issue in ProTools, please please help!

[Christopher Gilland]

Guys, we've discussed this before, I think, quite some time back, but 
the answers I got were kind of vague, and honestly, and this is of no 
offense to any of you all, weren't very helpful at the time. That's no 
fault of you all. It might have just been my knowledge/experience at 
that time was not of such that I could fully grasp the concepts.



Here is the situation again though. Trust me, too. I've Googled like 
crazy. I spent over about 3 hours last night Youtubing, and just 
Googling in general and am coming up pretty much empty handed.



I normally record lead vocals on top of already purchased instrumental 
tracks, so I'm not really normally working with stems. Once in a while, 
I'll do something which takes more than 2 tracks, one for the music, one 
for my vofal, but that's rare. Regardless, this is occuring.



In the past, I made a really really bad habbit of cranking my input gain 
on the mike input way up. Well, OK, fine. Not way up, but up enough to 
get good audible level going into PT. I obviously needed the level to be 
balanced with the music track.



Problem is, that music track usually would have been mastered at gain 
unity 0, which you know, anything above that, you're clipping. This 
means anything I drove on top of the music track, that's gonna push my 
master over that 0 no no limit. But! I had to. Or so I thought. It's the 
only way I could get any good volume on my mike input.



So, a few things. First my hardware. This way you know what we're 
working with. This interface is popular enough, surely you all know 
enough at least about it to help. I'm running a Focusrite scarlet 2I2 
interface, and the first generation of a Blue Bluebird microphone. Let 
me be clear. This is the Bluebird, not the baby bottle. Again, the first 
gen, not the 2nd, nor the beta.



Now, I'm trying to break that habbit of running my gain so hot. I'm 
finding that with where my input dial on the scarlet now is set, I'm on 
my peeks hitting probably around -13DB or so on average, and again, 
that's on the loudest peeks of my vocals. Obviously, that's much much 
better.



The problem is, when recording, obviously having the level that low, I 
can't hear myself hardly at all in my cans. I normally have to get 
around -2 to 0DB in my peek meter on the output of the vocal track in PT 
before I can really hear myself well.. Also, when playing things back, 
it's barely audible.



Obviously, same problem with my keyboard using a virtual synth, or for 
that mind, patching it directly in the scarlet. As for my vocal, I get 
that to hear it well in my cans, and on the final mix I could pop a 
compressor on the vocal, like the Gray compressor, and set it to a 
preset like steady, which very very significantly does boost the volume. 
The only issue is, no, I'm not clipping, but adding compression for the 
simple reason to boost that output gain is a horrible! idea in most 
cases. It's adding color, sometimes saturation, etc. that I definitely 
do not want into the mix taking away the natural beauty of the vocal 
characteristics.



Yes, I could get a pre like a cloud lifter, but that's gonna present the 
same issue. You turn up that input, bam! now you're clippen again. I 
don't think the issue is on my input side. - I'm fully convinced of 
that. This is an output thing. As level wize, my peek meter in PT is 
showing just fine at -13 roughly.



I know I also could turn down the music track. Way down. Then, add a 
stereo master fader track, and turn it's output volume slider way way up 
to compensate, but is that really the best methodology? I have to run 
that thing with no plugs on the master fader up to nearly positive 8 or 
9 DB to get the volume back to normal comfortable listening. Remember. 
I'm trying to compensate for that lower -13DB level going in.



I don't think the Scarlet has a separate IO path output just for 
headphones alone, so I can't exactly create a bus in the IO settings, 
then send to it individually creating a submix.



On the master fader though, again, going to +8 or 9 DB... yeah! That's 
barely giving any headroom at all. Maybe I have a ton on the mike, but, 
yeah. I get I could turn up the output level itself on the vocal track 
but is that really a safe thing to do? I was always told you wana try 
keeping your vocal tracks output volume sliders as close to that default 
0DB as possible. Only interact with Voiceover on those sliders and crank 
them as a very last resort. I'm told you really wanna be using your 
master, not the level of the mike tracks.



Basically all I'm trying to do is keep things at that -13 average, yet 
get them loud enough to hear them through the mix. I could just crank up 
the cans volume knob on the scarlet, or the main output volume fed to my 
speakers, but then, again, I'm gonna have to then crank things almost to 
the point of normal blaring level which means if I do anything listening 
to a regular mp3 outside PT, or try doing anything with