Re: [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3

[Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public]

On 2020-02-28 5:29 μ.μ., Ryan Sleevi wrote:

Hi Dimitris,

There's a lot of changes here, and this will take us quite a bit of 
time to digest.


I don't know that we're necessarily supportive of the "Full Member" 
definition, and the implications that has. The implicit consequences 
of treating Interested Parties as Members of the Forum is not what was 
intended with the current Bylaws, as I understand it, and so it has 
ramifications throughout. That is, our definitions have historically 
been "Member, Associate Member, Interested Party" - with zero overlap. 
This seems to redefine things to be "Full Member, Associate Member, 
Interested Party", with using "Member" as the aggregate term for all 
three, and it's unclear why that was necessary.




The concern that was documented in the Bylaws issues was that it becomes 
confusing when we use plural (i.e. Forum Members, WG Members). Does that 
include "all Members"? Does it include only "Members" (with a capital 
"M")? Does it include every Forum member? That's mainly the problem I 
tried to solve by adding the "Full Member" definition. However, if we 
can find an alternative approach to achieve the same goal, I would 
support it.


However, the biggest concern remains with the approach to the Chair / 
Vice Chair making changes to "Informative" sections. We're 
tremendously appreciative of your efforts here in finding a solution, 
and we're trying to work through how best to propose changes that 
capture the intent. We're very appreciative of the explicit attempt to 
limit the scope in sucha manner.


Thank you for that, all I did was include some language that was 
proposed in previous meeting. I hope it will only require a few more 
tweaks to become acceptable by Google.


Dimitris.



On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:15 AM Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via 
Public mailto:public@cabforum.org>> wrote:




I just received a comment that Section 2.3 point 7 also needs to
precede all occurrences of "Member" with "Full", as Interested
Parties are sometimes able to participate in Forum
Teleconferences, etc, and so may affect the quorum without a
corresponding ability to vote.

So, I updated this paragraph to:

"7.    A ballot result will be considered valid only when more
than half of the number of currently active Full Members has
participated. The number of currently active Full Members is the
average number of Full Member organizations that have participated
in the previous three (3) Forum Meetings and Forum Teleconferences."

There is no need to circulate a new version yet. I'll wait for
more feedback.


Thanks,
Dimitris.

On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via
Public wrote:

Following up from the latest F2F meeting, I have prepared a
ballot for a Bylaws update.

I am looking for two endorsers.

Thanks,
Dimitris.


*Purpose of Ballot:* The Forum has identified and discussed a
number of improvements to be made to the current version of the
Bylaws to improve clarity and allow the Forum to function more
effectively. Most of these changes are described in the “Issues
with Bylaws to be addressed

”
document.

Here is a list of major changes:

 1. Clarification of the use of the term “Member” so it is clear
when we discuss about all Forum Members (which includes
Associate Members and Interested Parties), and when we
discuss about the “Full Members”.
 2. Adding the term “Voting Representative” which is designated
by each Member. Only votes submitted by Voting
Representatives will be considered
 3. Replacing of the term “Forum wiki” with the properly defined
term “Member Web Site”
 4. Removing references for Webmaster in the definition of
“Public Web Site” since it is repeated in section 5.2
 5. New Photography Policy in Exhibit D
 6. Clarification of 4.1 (2) that Forum Members nominate
representatives
 7. Allowing informative changes to Guidelines by the Chair or
Vice Chair
 8. In 5.3.1 require that a Certificate Issuer is trusted in the
“latest” software produced by a Certificate Consumer

*— MOTION BEGINS –*

*Amendment to the Bylaws:* Replace the entire text of the Bylaws
of the CA/Browser Forum with the attached version (CA-Browser
Forum Bylaws draft v2.3.pdf).

*
**— MOTION ENDS –*

A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws draft v2.3
redline.pdf).

The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:

Formal discussion period:  (14+ days)

Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC

Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC

Vote for approval (7 days)

Ballot Vote Begins: TBD

Ballot Vote Ends: TBD

Re: [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3

[Ryan Sleevi via Public]

Hi Dimitris,

There's a lot of changes here, and this will take us quite a bit of time to
digest.

I don't know that we're necessarily supportive of the "Full Member"
definition, and the implications that has. The implicit consequences of
treating Interested Parties as Members of the Forum is not what was
intended with the current Bylaws, as I understand it, and so it has
ramifications throughout. That is, our definitions have historically been
"Member, Associate Member, Interested Party" - with zero overlap. This
seems to redefine things to be "Full Member, Associate Member, Interested
Party", with using "Member" as the aggregate term for all three, and it's
unclear why that was necessary.

However, the biggest concern remains with the approach to the Chair / Vice
Chair making changes to "Informative" sections. We're tremendously
appreciative of your efforts here in finding a solution, and we're trying
to work through how best to propose changes that capture the intent. We're
very appreciative of the explicit attempt to limit the scope in sucha
manner.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:15 AM Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public <
public@cabforum.org> wrote:

>
>
> I just received a comment that Section 2.3 point 7 also needs to precede
> all occurrences of "Member" with "Full", as Interested Parties are
> sometimes able to participate in Forum Teleconferences, etc, and so may
> affect the quorum without a corresponding ability to vote.
>
> So, I updated this paragraph to:
>
> "7.A ballot result will be considered valid only when more than half
> of the number of currently active Full Members has participated. The
> number of currently active Full Members is the average number of Full Member
> organizations that have participated in the previous three (3) Forum
> Meetings and Forum Teleconferences."
>
> There is no need to circulate a new version yet. I'll wait for more
> feedback.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Dimitris.
>
> On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public wrote:
>
> Following up from the latest F2F meeting, I have prepared a ballot for a
> Bylaws update.
>
> I am looking for two endorsers.
>
> Thanks,
> Dimitris.
>
>
> *Purpose of Ballot:* The Forum has identified and discussed a number of
> improvements to be made to the current version of the Bylaws to improve
> clarity and allow the Forum to function more effectively. Most of these
> changes are described in the “Issues with Bylaws to be addressed
> ”
> document.
>
> Here is a list of major changes:
>
>1. Clarification of the use of the term “Member” so it is clear when
>we discuss about all Forum Members (which includes Associate Members and
>Interested Parties), and when we discuss about the “Full Members”.
>2. Adding the term “Voting Representative” which is designated by each
>Member. Only votes submitted by Voting Representatives will be considered
>3. Replacing of the term “Forum wiki” with the properly defined term
>“Member Web Site”
>4. Removing references for Webmaster in the definition of “Public Web
>Site” since it is repeated in section 5.2
>5. New Photography Policy in Exhibit D
>6. Clarification of 4.1 (2) that Forum Members nominate representatives
>7. Allowing informative changes to Guidelines by the Chair or Vice
>Chair
>8. In 5.3.1 require that a Certificate Issuer is trusted in the
>“latest” software produced by a Certificate Consumer
>
> *— MOTION BEGINS –*
>
> *Amendment to the Bylaws:* Replace the entire text of the Bylaws of the
> CA/Browser Forum with the attached version (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws draft
> v2.3.pdf).
>
>
> *— MOTION ENDS –*
>
> A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws draft v2.3
> redline.pdf).
>
> The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:
>
> Formal discussion period:  (14+ days)
>
> Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC
>
> Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC
>
> Vote for approval (7 days)
>
> Ballot Vote Begins: TBD
>
> Ballot Vote Ends: TBD
>
> ___
> Public mailing 
> listPublic@cabforum.orghttps://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public
>
>
> ___
> Public mailing list
> Public@cabforum.org
> https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public
>
___
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Re: [cabfpub] Ballot Forum-XX: Update CA/B Forum Bylaws to version 2.3

[Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public]

I just received a comment that Section 2.3 point 7 also needs to precede 
all occurrences of "Member" with "Full", as Interested Parties are 
sometimes able to participate in Forum Teleconferences, etc, and so may 
affect the quorum without a corresponding ability to vote.


So, I updated this paragraph to:

"7.    A ballot result will be considered valid only when more than half 
of the number of currently active Full Members has participated. The 
number of currently active Full Members is the average number of Full 
Member organizations that have participated in the previous three (3) 
Forum Meetings and Forum Teleconferences."


There is no need to circulate a new version yet. I'll wait for more 
feedback.



Thanks,
Dimitris.

On 2020-02-27 8:51 μ.μ., Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA) via Public wrote:
Following up from the latest F2F meeting, I have prepared a ballot for 
a Bylaws update.


I am looking for two endorsers.

Thanks,
Dimitris.


*Purpose of Ballot:* The Forum has identified and discussed a number 
of improvements to be made to the current version of the Bylaws to 
improve clarity and allow the Forum to function more effectively. Most 
of these changes are described in the “Issues with Bylaws to be 
addressed 
” 
document.


Here is a list of major changes:

 1. Clarification of the use of the term “Member” so it is clear when
we discuss about all Forum Members (which includes Associate
Members and Interested Parties), and when we discuss about the
“Full Members”.
 2. Adding the term “Voting Representative” which is designated by
each Member. Only votes submitted by Voting Representatives will
be considered
 3. Replacing of the term “Forum wiki” with the properly defined term
“Member Web Site”
 4. Removing references for Webmaster in the definition of “Public Web
Site” since it is repeated in section 5.2
 5. New Photography Policy in Exhibit D
 6. Clarification of 4.1 (2) that Forum Members nominate representatives
 7. Allowing informative changes to Guidelines by the Chair or Vice Chair
 8. In 5.3.1 require that a Certificate Issuer is trusted in the
“latest” software produced by a Certificate Consumer

*— MOTION BEGINS –*

*Amendment to the Bylaws:* Replace the entire text of the Bylaws of 
the CA/Browser Forum with the attached version (CA-Browser Forum 
Bylaws draft v2.3.pdf).


*
**— MOTION ENDS –*

A red-line is also attached (CA-Browser Forum Bylaws draft v2.3 
redline.pdf).


The procedure for approval of this ballot is as follows:

Formal discussion period:  (14+ days)

Ballot Discussion Begins: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC

Ballot Discussion Ends: March XX, 2020 19:00 UTC

Vote for approval (7 days)

Ballot Vote Begins: TBD

Ballot Vote Ends: TBD


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https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public


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