Re: CfC: add Quota API to WebApps' charter; deadline December 20

[Kinuko Yasuda]

Hi,

(Sorry for my slow response, I'm in a half-vacation status)

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Charles McCathieNevile
wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:10:45 +0100, Kinuko Yasuda 
> wrote:
>
>  On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Arthur Barstow > >wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Kinuko, All,
>>>
>>> Besides the Chromium team, I think it would be helpful if other browser
>>> vendors would state their level of interest for this API (e.g. would
>>> review drafts, prototype, deploy, etc.).
>>>
>>
> We will at least review - in principle this is really useful for
> application developers.
>

(Comment 1 - why does this need to use callbacks?)


Thanks for the comment!
This question could be interpreted two different ways:

1. Why this needs to be async?
We wanted to make them async operations since querying the usage or
updating the quota in the UA may require some blocking operations, like
examining the actual disk usage or querying the backend database.

2. Why we use callbacks instead of events?
I know there's a long history of callbacks vs events discussion, but the
reason in our case was simple:
The Quota API proposal was fleshed out along with the FileSystem API [1],
which is the first storage API draft that has the concept of 'temporary' vs
'persistent' storage we wanted to introduce in the Quota API, and this
motivated us to use the API notation similar to FileSystem API (i.e.
callbacks).

One of the obvious benefit of "events" is, in my understanding, in that way
we could naturally implement "progress" events or "abort" method, both
could be crucial in streaming processing, but in the quota case either one
doen't seem to be really necessary.  Events could also naturally allow
multiple listeners but again this doesn't seem crucial in the quota API.

I'm open to change this though if we have legitimate reasons strong enough
to change existing chrome code.
(I'll fork a new thread if this discussion could become longer)

[1] dev.w3.org/2009/dap/file-system/file-dir-sys.html

 Kinuko - do you have a commitment for the Editor role and testing related
>>> tasks e.g. creating a test suite?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yes I'm willing to play the Editor role.
>> As for the testing related tasks I'm not fully sure the necessary steps
>> and deliverables,
>>
>
> Making sure there are tests for the specification so it can be completed
> and anyone can use them to demonstrate interoperability between any two
> implementations...
>

Thanks, several people also kindly told me what'd be the expected tasks.


> Given the basic nature of the spec I guess it doesn't need to be an
> enormous test suite - the most complex question is probably checking that
> it really works as advertised with different types of storage. (Although I
> am not sure what the quota would actually *mean* for a database).


For database we have no way to express 'temporary' or 'persistent' in the
current spec, so the UA needs to store its data either in temporary or
persistent.  In the current chrome implementation we treat all the data of
Web SQL, IndexedDB and AppCache as 'temporary' storage data, i.e. they can
store some data without showing user prompting but the data could get
deleted when the remaining space becomes low.  (I'm aware that this part
needs to be fleshed out more in terms of interoperability.)

 but yes I'm willing to do the tasks that need to be done to
>> move this forward.
>>
>
> In light of the above explanation?
>

Yes.

cheers
>
> Chaals
>
>  -AB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/13/11 7:23 AM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:
>>>
>>>  Subject corrected ...

 On 12/13/11 7:22 AM, Arthur Barstow wrote:

  As IanF mentioned before, Google would like to add a Quota API to
> WebApps' charter and Kinuko has now provided a link to a document that
> provides some details about this API:
>
>  
> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Quota
> 
> >
>
>
> As such, this is a Call for Consensus to add this API to WebApps'
> charter (see [CharterChanges] for latest data on WebApps' charter
> update).
>
> If you have any comments or concerns about this proposal, please send
> them to public-webapps by December 20 at the latest.
>
> As with all of our CfCs, positive response is preferred and encouraged
> and silence will be assumed to be agreement with the proposal.
>
> -AB
>
> [CharterChanges] http://www.w3.org/2008/
> webapps/wiki/CharterChanges
> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/CharterChanges>
> >
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: Quota API and WebApps [Was: Re: Consolidating charter
> changes]
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:22:38 +0900
> From: ext Kinuko Yasuda 
> To: Arthur Barstow 
> CC: public-webapps , Ian Fette <
> ife..

Re: CfC: add Quota API to WebApps' charter; deadline December 20

[Charles McCathieNevile]

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:10:45 +0100, Kinuko Yasuda   
wrote:


On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Arthur Barstow  
wrote:



Hi Kinuko, All,

Besides the Chromium team, I think it would be helpful if other browser
vendors would state their level of interest for this API (e.g. would  
review drafts, prototype, deploy, etc.).


We will at least review - in principle this is really useful for  
application developers.


(Comment 1 - why does this need to use callbacks?)

Kinuko - do you have a commitment for the Editor role and testing  
related tasks e.g. creating a test suite?



Yes I'm willing to play the Editor role.
As for the testing related tasks I'm not fully sure the necessary steps  
and deliverables,


Making sure there are tests for the specification so it can be completed  
and anyone can use them to demonstrate interoperability between any two  
implementations...


Given the basic nature of the spec I guess it doesn't need to be an  
enormous test suite - the most complex question is probably checking that  
it really works as advertised with different types of storage. (Although I  
am not sure what the quota would actually *mean* for a database).



but yes I'm willing to do the tasks that need to be done to
move this forward.


In light of the above explanation?

cheers

Chaals


-AB



On 12/13/11 7:23 AM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:


Subject corrected ...

On 12/13/11 7:22 AM, Arthur Barstow wrote:


As IanF mentioned before, Google would like to add a Quota API to
WebApps' charter and Kinuko has now provided a link to a document that
provides some details about this API:

  http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/**Quota

As such, this is a Call for Consensus to add this API to WebApps'
charter (see [CharterChanges] for latest data on WebApps' charter  
update).


If you have any comments or concerns about this proposal, please send
them to public-webapps by December 20 at the latest.

As with all of our CfCs, positive response is preferred and encouraged
and silence will be assumed to be agreement with the proposal.

-AB

[CharterChanges]  
http://www.w3.org/2008/**webapps/wiki/CharterChanges



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Quota API and WebApps [Was: Re: Consolidating charter
changes]
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:22:38 +0900
From: ext Kinuko Yasuda 
To: Arthur Barstow 
CC: public-webapps , Ian Fette <
ife...@google.com>



Hi Arthur,

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Arthur Barstow  

art.bars...@nokia.com>**> wrote:

  Hi IanF, All,

  Following up on Quota API vis-à-visCharterChanges wiki [1] ...

  Does the group want to add Quota API to the group's charter? If yes,
  where is a draft/strawman proposal?


We have an early draft for Quota API spec here:
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/**Quota  



I think we want to add it to the group's charter.

  -AB

  [1]  
http://www.w3.org/2008/**webapps/wiki/CharterChanges


  On 11/8/11 12:37 PM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:

  During the October 31 meeting, we discussed [1] various
  additions, changes and deletions for WebApps' current charter
  [2]. To consolidate the various proposals, I created the
  following doc:


>

  My expectation is that Doug will this information when he drafts
  our updated charter.

  Comments on this doc and our future charter welcome. However, if
  we are going to add any new deliverables, I think there should
  be broad agreement on the spec, including prior commitment to
  drive the spec through all of the phases of the process
  including testing and implementations.

  Chaals, IanF - I included some actions/questions for you (mostly
  recorded at the f2f meeting).

  -AB

  [1]  
http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-**webapps-minutes.html
  [2]  
http://www.w3.org/2010/**webapps/charter/











--
Charles 'chaals' McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg kan litt norsk
http://my.opera.com/chaals   Try Opera: http://www.opera.com

Re: CfC: add Quota API to WebApps' charter; deadline December 20

[Kinuko Yasuda]

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Arthur Barstow wrote:

> Hi Kinuko, All,
>
> Besides the Chromium team, I think it would be helpful if other browser
> vendors would state their level of interest for this API (e.g. would review
> drafts, prototype, deploy, etc.).
>
> Kinuko - do you have a commitment for the Editor role and testing related
> tasks e.g. creating a test suite?


Yes I'm willing to play the Editor role.
As for the testing related tasks I'm not fully sure the necessary steps and
deliverables, but yes I'm willing to do the tasks that need to be done to
move this forward.


> -AB
>
>
>
> On 12/13/11 7:23 AM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:
>
>> Subject corrected ...
>>
>> On 12/13/11 7:22 AM, Arthur Barstow wrote:
>>
>>> As IanF mentioned before, Google would like to add a Quota API to
>>> WebApps' charter and Kinuko has now provided a link to a document that
>>> provides some details about this API:
>>>
>>>   http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/**Quota
>>>
>>> As such, this is a Call for Consensus to add this API to WebApps'
>>> charter (see [CharterChanges] for latest data on WebApps' charter update).
>>>
>>> If you have any comments or concerns about this proposal, please send
>>> them to public-webapps by December 20 at the latest.
>>>
>>> As with all of our CfCs, positive response is preferred and encouraged
>>> and silence will be assumed to be agreement with the proposal.
>>>
>>> -AB
>>>
>>> [CharterChanges] 
>>> http://www.w3.org/2008/**webapps/wiki/CharterChanges
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>> Subject: Re: Quota API and WebApps [Was: Re: Consolidating charter
>>> changes]
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:22:38 +0900
>>> From: ext Kinuko Yasuda 
>>> To: Arthur Barstow 
>>> CC: public-webapps , Ian Fette <
>>> ife...@google.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Arthur,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Arthur Barstow 
>>> >> art.bars...@nokia.com>**> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hi IanF, All,
>>>
>>>   Following up on Quota API vis-à-visCharterChanges wiki [1] ...
>>>
>>>   Does the group want to add Quota API to the group's charter? If yes,
>>>   where is a draft/strawman proposal?
>>>
>>>
>>> We have an early draft for Quota API spec here:
>>> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/**Quota 
>>>
>>> I think we want to add it to the group's charter.
>>>
>>>   -AB
>>>
>>>   [1] 
>>> http://www.w3.org/2008/**webapps/wiki/CharterChanges
>>>
>>>   On 11/8/11 12:37 PM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:
>>>
>>>   During the October 31 meeting, we discussed [1] various
>>>   additions, changes and deletions for WebApps' current charter
>>>   [2]. To consolidate the various proposals, I created the
>>>   following doc:
>>>
>>> 
>>> >
>>>
>>>   My expectation is that Doug will this information when he drafts
>>>   our updated charter.
>>>
>>>   Comments on this doc and our future charter welcome. However, if
>>>   we are going to add any new deliverables, I think there should
>>>   be broad agreement on the spec, including prior commitment to
>>>   drive the spec through all of the phases of the process
>>>   including testing and implementations.
>>>
>>>   Chaals, IanF - I included some actions/questions for you (mostly
>>>   recorded at the f2f meeting).
>>>
>>>   -AB
>>>
>>>   [1] 
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-**webapps-minutes.html
>>>   [2] 
>>> http://www.w3.org/2010/**webapps/charter/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: CfC: add Quota API to WebApps' charter; deadline December 20

[Arthur Barstow]

Hi Kinuko, All,

Besides the Chromium team, I think it would be helpful if other browser 
vendors would state their level of interest for this API (e.g. would 
review drafts, prototype, deploy, etc.).


Kinuko - do you have a commitment for the Editor role and testing 
related tasks e.g. creating a test suite?


-AB


On 12/13/11 7:23 AM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:

Subject corrected ...

On 12/13/11 7:22 AM, Arthur Barstow wrote:
As IanF mentioned before, Google would like to add a Quota API to 
WebApps' charter and Kinuko has now provided a link to a document 
that provides some details about this API:


   http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Quota

As such, this is a Call for Consensus to add this API to WebApps' 
charter (see [CharterChanges] for latest data on WebApps' charter 
update).


If you have any comments or concerns about this proposal, please send 
them to public-webapps by December 20 at the latest.


As with all of our CfCs, positive response is preferred and 
encouraged and silence will be assumed to be agreement with the 
proposal.


-AB

[CharterChanges] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/CharterChanges


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Quota API and WebApps [Was: Re: Consolidating 
charter changes]

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:22:38 +0900
From: ext Kinuko Yasuda 
To: Arthur Barstow 
CC: public-webapps , Ian Fette 





Hi Arthur,

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Arthur Barstow 
mailto:art.bars...@nokia.com>> wrote:


   Hi IanF, All,

   Following up on Quota API vis-à-visCharterChanges wiki [1] ...

   Does the group want to add Quota API to the group's charter? If yes,
   where is a draft/strawman proposal?


We have an early draft for Quota API spec here:
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Quota

I think we want to add it to the group's charter.

   -AB

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/CharterChanges

   On 11/8/11 12:37 PM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:

   During the October 31 meeting, we discussed [1] various
   additions, changes and deletions for WebApps' current charter
   [2]. To consolidate the various proposals, I created the
   following doc:



   My expectation is that Doug will this information when he drafts
   our updated charter.

   Comments on this doc and our future charter welcome. However, if
   we are going to add any new deliverables, I think there should
   be broad agreement on the spec, including prior commitment to
   drive the spec through all of the phases of the process
   including testing and implementations.

   Chaals, IanF - I included some actions/questions for you (mostly
   recorded at the f2f meeting).

   -AB

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-webapps-minutes.html
   [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/webapps/charter/

CfC: add Quota API to WebApps' charter; deadline December 20

[Arthur Barstow]

Subject corrected ...

On 12/13/11 7:22 AM, Arthur Barstow wrote:
As IanF mentioned before, Google would like to add a Quota API to 
WebApps' charter and Kinuko has now provided a link to a document that 
provides some details about this API:


   http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Quota

As such, this is a Call for Consensus to add this API to WebApps' 
charter (see [CharterChanges] for latest data on WebApps' charter 
update).


If you have any comments or concerns about this proposal, please send 
them to public-webapps by December 20 at the latest.


As with all of our CfCs, positive response is preferred and encouraged 
and silence will be assumed to be agreement with the proposal.


-AB

[CharterChanges] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/CharterChanges


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Quota API and WebApps [Was: Re: Consolidating charter 
changes]

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:22:38 +0900
From: ext Kinuko Yasuda 
To: Arthur Barstow 
CC: public-webapps , Ian Fette 





Hi Arthur,

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Arthur Barstow 
mailto:art.bars...@nokia.com>> wrote:


   Hi IanF, All,

   Following up on Quota API vis-à-visCharterChanges wiki [1] ...

   Does the group want to add Quota API to the group's charter? If yes,
   where is a draft/strawman proposal?


We have an early draft for Quota API spec here:
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Quota

I think we want to add it to the group's charter.

   -AB

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/CharterChanges

   On 11/8/11 12:37 PM, ext Arthur Barstow wrote:

   During the October 31 meeting, we discussed [1] various
   additions, changes and deletions for WebApps' current charter
   [2]. To consolidate the various proposals, I created the
   following doc:



   My expectation is that Doug will this information when he drafts
   our updated charter.

   Comments on this doc and our future charter welcome. However, if
   we are going to add any new deliverables, I think there should
   be broad agreement on the spec, including prior commitment to
   drive the spec through all of the phases of the process
   including testing and implementations.

   Chaals, IanF - I included some actions/questions for you (mostly
   recorded at the f2f meeting).

   -AB

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-webapps-minutes.html
   [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/webapps/charter/