[Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
As a member of the Puppet Labs docs team, I would like to second what Nick said. We are a small team with a big backlog and we could not get our jobs done if it were not for the engagement and and assiduousness of our users. Thanks for your help and your patience. As we grow the team and move ahead, I'll look forward to getting your comments and feedback. Fred Lifton On Friday, December 6, 2013 1:24:53 PM UTC-8, Nick Fagerlund wrote: > > > > Hi all, I'm the one who closed that ticket. Sorry, my bad. > > First off, WE STILL PLAN TO IMPROVE THE TYPE AND PROVIDER DOCS. They can & > should & will be better, and we don't consider the O'Reilly "Puppet Types > and Providers" book to be an acceptable replacement for free documentation > on our website. > > That's going to take a big chunk of time, though, and we (the Puppet Labs > docs team, hi) will have to schedule it as planned work. > > Anyway, here's what happened with that ticket: > > >- We're moving ticketing systems. The new one will be publicly visible >at tickets.puppetlabs.com in a matter of days. >- The docs team is already tracking work in the new system. We are not >tracking ANY work in Redmine. The stuff in Redmine is old and out of date. >- So now I have to do a mass cleanup on the old stuff in Redmine in >preparation for the complete switch-over. > - Some things I'm fixing now, some things I'm making new tickets > for, some things aren't relevant anymore, and some things are so > well-known > in my team that we don't really need a ticket as a reminder; instead, > we'll > be hashing them out in our planning sessions once we've dealt with the > stuff we're currently working on (at which point they'll turn into like > a > dozen related tickets). "Overhaul the type/provider docs" is in that > last > group. >- I marked some tickets as "rejected" that I should have marked as >"closed." (Since we're still planning to do the work, but we aren't >tracking it in that Redmine ticket anymore.) Sorry! >- On some of those, I also made a note or two about related >developments that may have changed the relative priority of the issue. (In >this case, the fact that there's a good reference *somewhere* out there >means we have a small bit of breathing room, even though we still need to >improve our version.) >- I *should* have also pasted in some boilerplate about WHY I was >closing 50 tickets at once, and what to do if you were following one of >them. > > > So yeah, sorry for implying we weren't going to improve type/provider > docs; that's not what I was trying to say at all. Closing that ticket was > about housekeeping, not about rejecting the work it represented. There will > be a bit of an awkward stage as we switch ticketing systems; sorry about > that, and thank you for staying vocal about what needs work. > > NF > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/20738625-991e-4b8c-ba98-c0c56ebaffc1%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
On Thursday, December 5, 2013 5:35:13 PM UTC-8, Philip Brown wrote: > > > Summary: > > (We dont need to improve our public documentation, because people can go > BUY documentation for puppet) > > I can understand changing it to low priority or something. > But *Rejecting* this issue? > > Hi all, I'm the one who closed that ticket. Sorry, my bad. First off, WE STILL PLAN TO IMPROVE THE TYPE AND PROVIDER DOCS. They can & should & will be better, and we don't consider the O'Reilly "Puppet Types and Providers" book to be an acceptable replacement for free documentation on our website. That's going to take a big chunk of time, though, and we (the Puppet Labs docs team, hi) will have to schedule it as planned work. Anyway, here's what happened with that ticket: - We're moving ticketing systems. The new one will be publicly visible at tickets.puppetlabs.com in a matter of days. - The docs team is already tracking work in the new system. We are not tracking ANY work in Redmine. The stuff in Redmine is old and out of date. - So now I have to do a mass cleanup on the old stuff in Redmine in preparation for the complete switch-over. - Some things I'm fixing now, some things I'm making new tickets for, some things aren't relevant anymore, and some things are so well-known in my team that we don't really need a ticket as a reminder; instead, we'll be hashing them out in our planning sessions once we've dealt with the stuff we're currently working on (at which point they'll turn into like a dozen related tickets). "Overhaul the type/provider docs" is in that last group. - I marked some tickets as "rejected" that I should have marked as "closed." (Since we're still planning to do the work, but we aren't tracking it in that Redmine ticket anymore.) Sorry! - On some of those, I also made a note or two about related developments that may have changed the relative priority of the issue. (In this case, the fact that there's a good reference *somewhere* out there means we have a small bit of breathing room, even though we still need to improve our version.) - I *should* have also pasted in some boilerplate about WHY I was closing 50 tickets at once, and what to do if you were following one of them. So yeah, sorry for implying we weren't going to improve type/provider docs; that's not what I was trying to say at all. Closing that ticket was about housekeeping, not about rejecting the work it represented. There will be a bit of an awkward stage as we switch ticketing systems; sorry about that, and thank you for staying vocal about what needs work. NF -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/81075a71-bff4-4efd-ae48-7ac60e723a07%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppet-docs On 12/06/2013 03:36 PM, kaustubh chaudhari wrote: > Hey, > > Option a) is good! > > Just curious, how do we submit the updated doc to Puppet Lab so that > they can publish it on the website! > > -Kaustubh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/52A1E345.1060805%40alumni.tu-berlin.de. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
Hey, Option a) is good! Just curious, how do we submit the updated doc to Puppet Lab so that they can publish it on the website! -Kaustubh On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:03:04 AM UTC-5, Felix.Frank wrote: > > Not really. Seeing as this is a documentation header, there's only two > things you can do > a) write the docs yourself if you can or > b) wait for someone else to do so > > On 12/06/2013 01:58 PM, kaustubh chaudhari wrote: > > Rejecting is not a solution, at least you can redirect to some other > > links where its used/fixed/configured, and say try this for now and we > > will look into it when we have time! > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/65445c24-b2f3-4987-bd82-4ec8ec29df55%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
Hi, I Agree with Philip and Felix!! Some one might have implemented it with his own experience/try and error. But if its not documented, than its like re-inventing the wheel again and again! Rejecting is not a solution, at least you can redirect to some other links where its used/fixed/configured, and say try this for now and we will look into it when we have time! :) On the other hand i understand Seg/Developers are already loaded !! -Kaustubh On Friday, December 6, 2013 7:27:29 AM UTC-5, Felix.Frank wrote: > > I do feel that Redmine's backlogging facilities leave much to be > desired, but I don't really agree with your conclusion. > > I'm with Philip insofar that rejecting a bug is saying "won't fix" or > "not an issue anymore". Neither is apparently the case, so I consider > this at least a misuse of the tool. > > I wouldn't go so far as to claim hostility towards the community. I > suggest re-opening the ticket and discussing the proper course of > action, i.e. perhaps adding the backlog keyword or similar. > > Cheers, > Felix > > On 12/06/2013 08:32 AM, William Leese wrote: > > Seems to me more like: > > After a year we still haven't found time for this. Let's keep our bug > > database manageable but only keeping the stuff we can do within a > > reasonable time or the bug reports that contain some troubleshooting > > effort we don't want to redo. > > > > Quite a reasonable approach I'd say. With open bug databases, it's easy > > for the tool to lose it's value due to unmanageable backlogs. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/631741fe-acdc-4b8b-b1d0-ef1a9366341d%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
I do feel that Redmine's backlogging facilities leave much to be desired, but I don't really agree with your conclusion. I'm with Philip insofar that rejecting a bug is saying "won't fix" or "not an issue anymore". Neither is apparently the case, so I consider this at least a misuse of the tool. I wouldn't go so far as to claim hostility towards the community. I suggest re-opening the ticket and discussing the proper course of action, i.e. perhaps adding the backlog keyword or similar. Cheers, Felix On 12/06/2013 08:32 AM, William Leese wrote: > Seems to me more like: > After a year we still haven't found time for this. Let's keep our bug > database manageable but only keeping the stuff we can do within a > reasonable time or the bug reports that contain some troubleshooting > effort we don't want to redo. > > Quite a reasonable approach I'd say. With open bug databases, it's easy > for the tool to lose it's value due to unmanageable backlogs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/52A1C2B1.8080401%40alumni.tu-berlin.de. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[Puppet Users] Re: Unpleasant puppetlabs experience
Seems to me more like: After a year we still haven't found time for this. Let's keep our bug database manageable but only keeping the stuff we can do within a reasonable time or the bug reports that contain some troubleshooting effort we don't want to redo. Quite a reasonable approach I'd say. With open bug databases, it's easy for the tool to lose it's value due to unmanageable backlogs. On Friday, December 6, 2013 10:35:13 AM UTC+9, Philip Brown wrote: > > > https://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/14368#change-101086 > > Summary: > > (We dont need to improve our public documentation, because people can go > BUY documentation for puppet) > > I can understand changing it to low priority or something. > But *Rejecting* this issue? > For a supposedly "free, open source" project? Really? > > This does not motivate me to continue advocating for use of puppet, let > alone developing for it. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/puppet-users/9b1cb696-4aa6-4a24-acd0-6728f626c0a8%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
