[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as "universal"

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing added the comment:

Closing this out of date issue.

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resolution:  -> out of date
status: open -> closed

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[sorin]

sorin sorin.sbar...@gmail.com added the comment:

FYI, I got the above output from 10.7 from a friend, I do not have access to 
the seed, so the information could be wrong.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com added the comment:

I don't agree that distutils should autodetect architectures, that can result 
in silent behavior changes when you built extensions and assume ppc support 
will get compiled in.

We should probably start to mention the intel only builds more prominently 
though, that's the one that will be useful to most people at this time.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[sorin]

sorin sorin.sbar...@gmail.com added the comment:

Let's try to find a good compromise regarding this. I hope the we all agree 
that we should not put our personal needs or preferences on the first place, 
it's important to improve the overall experience for most users.

First, we do not want to fail to build and install a package if you are on 
specific case (xcode3, xcode4, ...).

I think that most people do not have `ARCHFLAGS` env var defined and they 
should not even care about it. Compilers are smart enough to pick the right 
architecture for them (xcode3 will build ppc/i386/x64 and xcode4 i386/x64, and 
who known maybe next version will include armX).

As for package maintainers and they build machines, they are more likely to be 
already aware about what they want to distribute. For this reason I consider 
that they can hack the build environment to meet their distribution needs 
(whatever env vars they want, blend xcode4 with xcode3,...). 

Still as stated in a previous comment, we do not want publish Universal 
binaries that will miss PPC architecture, in order to prevent this distutils 
should throw an warning if ppc architecture is not supported (xcode4).

Also if the ARCHFLAGS is defined and includes PPC, the build is supposed to 
fail.

Some other considerations: think that some people may want to install 
packages to their OS provided Python and in this case the python that comes 
with 10.6 doesn't have a PPC arch.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily n...@acm.org added the comment:

Compilers are smart enough to pick the right architecture for them (xcode3 
will build ppc/i386/x64 and xcode4 i386/x64

Actually, that's not the case for Python builds.  The architecture selection is 
based on what the builder of the Python interpreter specified on the 
./configure command and/or the defaults programmed into ./configure which look 
at other settings like deployment target. For extension module builds, 
Distutils attempts to use compile settings that are compatible with those the 
interpreter was built with, allowing some values to be influenced by 
environment variable settings.  In either case, the compiler has no say in the 
selection.

Some other considerations: think that some people may want to install 
packages to their OS provided Python and in this case the python that comes 
with 10.6 doesn't have a PPC arch.

Actually, that's also not the case.  The Apple-supplied Pythons in OS X 10.6 do 
have a PPC arch; try file /usr/bin/python2.6 in a shell and you'll see there 
are three archs.  It will even run on 10.6 in PPC emulation under Rosetta (try 
arch -ppc /usr/bin/python2.6),

But I sense a misconception here.  The python.org project has no say about what 
Apple does or doesn't do with regard to the system Pythons they supply in OS X. 
Python is an open-source project and many distributors (like Apple) build and 
release their own versions of Python. The PSF python.org project also builds 
and releases our own Windows and OS X binary installers.  But what is shipped 
with OS X is up to Apple.  For 10.6 the system python2.6 has a number of 
Apple-developed changes and add-ons.  The fact that Xcode 4 has complicated 
extension module builds with the system Python 2.6 is an issue to be taken up 
with Apple; there's nothing we here can do about that other than to suggest 
some workarounds.  And based on past experience, with the imminent release of 
10.7, it's highly unlikely Apple will be making any non-security related 
changes to their Pythons in 10.6.  We'll have to see what 10.7 brings.  For the 
system Pythons on 10.6, the choice seems clear: either stick wi
 th Xcode 3 or resort to workarounds.

What we can do here is try to make things better for users of the python.org 
source or binary installers for currently supported versions of Python.  
Documenting the tradeoffs of our current installer options is one step towards 
that.  Hope that makes things clearer!

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[sorin]

sorin sorin.sbar...@gmail.com added the comment:

You are right about Python from 10.6, it has PPC, but 10.7 doesn't.

bash-3.2$ file /Volumes/107/usr/bin/python2.6
/Volumes/107/usr/bin/python2.6: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures
/Volumes/107/usr/bin/python2.6 (for architecture x86_64):   Mach-O 64-bit 
executable x86_64
/Volumes/107/usr/bin/python2.6 (for architecture i386): Mach-O executable i386

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[sorin]

sorin sorin.sbar...@gmail.com added the comment:

And in addition to 2.5 and 2.6, 10.7 includes 2.7.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com added the comment:

What 10.7? ;-) Please remember 10.7 is under NDA, and as such shouldn't be 
discussed in public.

As I mentioned earlier: the 32-bit build should be deprecated and is only 
needed for older machines, anyone running modern machines can install OSX 10.6 
(or later) and can use the intel-only build.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[sorin]

sorin sorin.sbar...@gmail.com added the comment:

I think that distutils must me modified to auto detect supported architectures 
and use them, this without requiring you to hack ARCHFLAGS. 

The number of developers that need to build PPC binaries is at least one order 
of magnitude lower than the number of users in need of building/installing 
python packages.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily n...@acm.org added the comment:

All that said, the best solution to the problem is to use an appropriately 
configured Python for the task at hand.  If you want to build Python 
executables that are compatible with older OS X versions and Mac hardware (in 
particular, all machines capable of running OS X 10.4, 10.5, and 10.6), then 
you should be using something like the traditional python.org 32-bit-only 
installer configuration (i386/ppc, deployment target=10.3). And to build that 
Python or extension modules for it on OS X 10.6, you need to have Xcode 3 
installed.  End of story.

However, if you don't need that kind of backward compatibility - either you're 
just running on your own 10.6 (or later) system or are only targeting 10.6+ 
systems, then you should be using something like the python.org 64-/32- 
installer configuration (x86_64/i386, deployment target=10.6).  For that you 
should be able to build Python or extension modules with either Xcode 4 or 
Xcode 3.

If you are targeting for 10.5 Intel-only and above and want to use Xcode 4, you 
would need a Python with a slightly different configuration (i.e. with a 10.5 
deployment target); we don't currently supply an installer that meets that 
specialized (and presumably rapidly diminishing) need for x86_64 on 10.5 but it 
isn't that difficult to build yourself if you really need it.

So, if you choose the right binary installer for the task, there *shouldn't* be 
any issues with using Xcode 4.  If you need to build a Python from source, make 
sure you do not use the default ./configure values.  In particular, explicitly 
set --enable-universalsdk, --with-universal-archs, and 
MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET.  For example,

  ./configure \
  --enable-universalsdk=/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk \
  --with-universal-archs=intel \
  --enable-framework \
  MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.6

and any other options you might want like:
 --prefix=/path/to/bin
 --enable-framework=/path/to/framework
 --with-framework-name=whatever
 #which also influences the /Applications directory name

And, yes, longer term, we should do provide more appropriate defaults for these 
newer environments.  As we don't have a lot of experience yet with Xcode 4 and 
10.7 has not been released yet, feedback is appreciated.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[James Tatum]

Changes by James Tatum jta...@gmail.com:


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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily n...@acm.org added the comment:

A similar issue on StackOverflow reminded me that Distutils has support for the 
ARCHFLAGS environment variable on Mac OS X which you can use when building a C 
extension module to override the ARCH values that Python was built with.  I 
don't have Xcode 4 installed yet to verify this but you may be able to work 
around the problem by something like:

ARCHFLAGS='-arch i386 -arch x86_64' /usr/bin/python2.6 setup.py install

when using the Apple-supplied Python 2.6 or:

ARCHFLAGS='-arch i386' /usr/local/bin/pythonx.x setup.py install

when using a 32-bit-only python.org Python.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com added the comment:

Issue11485 is related to this.

As Ned noted Ned and I will look into this.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

Thanks for taking care of this.  I’ll be here to review distutils-related 
changes, if any are needed.

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com added the comment:

I haven't put much thought in a solution yet, but at this point I'd go for 
three changes:

1) Give a clear warning when python was configured for i386/ppc 
   and Xcode4 is installed (instead of giving a vague compiler crash 
   due to crapping out on ppc code)

2) Add an option that forces distutils to compile for i386 only

   This should not be the default because that would result in broken
   packages for users that want to redistribute binaries to ppc 
   machines.

3) The i386/ppc build should use the system headers instead of the
   10.4u SDK (change in configure.in), with a fallback to the 10.4u
   SDK when building extensions on a 10.4 machine (because the 
   -isysroot / cannot build universal binaries on all such machines)

BTW. distutils does not have code to work around OSX issues, it has code
to make use of OSX specific compilation features (such as having universal 
binaries and SDKs). ;-) ;-)

--
stage:  - needs patch

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Johannes Lindenbaum]

New submission from Johannes Lindenbaum johanneslindenb...@googlemail.com:

This bug is a crosspost from /setuptools.
(http://bugs.python.org/setuptools/issue122)

Summary:
OSX 10.6.x with Xcode 4 installed. Xcode 4 removes the PPC assembler from GCC. 
I attempted to install Fabric-1.0.0 which depended on pycrypto, during the 
pycrypto build there was a failure regarding Broken Pipe.

I downloaded the package separately and attempted to do the install there. Same 
error.

I was pointed in the right direction that the broken pipe error was coming from 
the '-arch ppc' flag during build.


Expected Result
10.6.x should not report itself as universal when it's no longer possible to 
compile for PPC.


Actual Result
Attempted PPC compilation fails.


More detail:
http://superuser.com/questions/259278/python-2-6-1-pycrypto-2-3-pypi-package-broken-pipe-during-build/260106#260106

Let me know if you require more information.

Kind Regards,
Johannes

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assignee: tarek
components: Distutils
messages: 131673
nosy: eric.araujo, jlindenbaum, tarek
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal
type: behavior
versions: Python 2.6

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Santoso Wijaya]

Changes by Santoso Wijaya santoso.wij...@gmail.com:


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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

Thanks for the report.  Can you try to reproduce the bug with a distutils setup 
script to confirm the bug and get an error log?  You may have to apply the 
patch from #11599 to get a complete error message.  (Also, superuser rights are 
not required for build, so let’s remove that too.)

I only know the basics about C compilation, and I only know that Mac OS is a 
strange and peculiar system, but let’s try to work on this bug :)  The 
distutils.unixccompiler module already has code to work around things in 
various Mac OS versions, so if there is an easy way to detect “when it’s no 
longer possible to compile for PPC”, there is hope.

--
versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.1, Python 3.2, Python 3.3 -Python 2.6

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[issue11623] Distutils is reporting OSX 10.6 w/ XCode 4 as universal

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily n...@acm.org added the comment:

The release of Xcode 4 for Mac OS X 10.6 has complicated things for Python 
builds.  We need to sort out what the problems are and possible solutions for 
them.  I suggest this issue be reassigned to Ronald and me.

In the meantime, the workaround is to continue to use Xcode 3 (which is still 
fully supported) on OS X 10.6.  If you feel you absolutely need to have Xcode 4 
installed *and* you still need to build C extension modules for the currently 
available Pythons for OS X (i.e. the python.org installers or even the 
Apple-supplied Pythons in 10.60), there are unofficial suggestions out on the 
web on how one can have Xcode 3 and 4 installed side-by-side, for example:
   http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20110318050811544
(Note, I have not tried this and am not recommending it.)

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