[issue19407] PEP 453: update the "Installing Python Modules" documentation

[Jon Snoo]

Jon Snoo added the comment:

The link to the "quick recommendations section" in the Python 2.7 and 3.3 docs 
is broken. It appears that the PPUG has changed the path from

https://python-packaging-user-guide.readthedocs.org/en/latest/current.html

to

https://python-packaging-user-guide.readthedocs.org/en/latest/current/

Also, should the "Installing Python Modules" in Python 2.7.9 and 2.7.10 be the 
same as the one in Python 3.4? After all, pip is included in Python 2.7.9+, 
isn't it?

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset d22ef969cb82 by Nick Coghlan in branch 'default':
Close #19407: New installation  distribution guides
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/d22ef969cb82

--
resolution:  - fixed
stage:  - committed/rejected
status: open - closed

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Not sure how much I'll be online tomorrow or Saturday, so I went ahead and 
committed what I had.

The new guides definitely aren't perfect, but I think they're in acceptable 
shape for 3.4.0, and we can improve them in parallel with Python Packaging User 
Guide updates (e.g. there were some How do I...? questions I left unanswered 
because the relevant PPUG sections don't have answers yet. In particular, I 
completely punted on the non-PyPI distribution question for now)

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset f5be4ea5b43e by Nick Coghlan in branch 'default':
Issue #19407: fix link
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/f5be4ea5b43e

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 25dc02a2acae by Ned Deily in branch 'default':
Issue #19407: Fix typos in new distribution  installation guides.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/25dc02a2acae

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo added the comment:

Left some comments for Nick on Rietveld (the ever-useful CC name selection did 
not let me find you, so you may have not gotten a mail).

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Éric Araujo]

Changes by Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org:


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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Marcus Smith]

Marcus Smith added the comment:

about the hhgtp link, logged here: 
https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/268  (and already fixed)

also, pyvenv is more prominent now in PUG as of latest changes (see 
https://github.com/pypa/python-packaging-user-guide/pull/35)

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

After attempting to fix these docs in place, I now think that's a doomed 
effort. However, we can't just delete them, because they still contain details 
that haven't been moved to the distutils module docs or the Python Packaging 
User Guide yet.

So, what I'm planning to do instead is leave the existing Doc/install and 
Doc/distutils directories alone (including all their labels), changing the top 
level index page to point to new Doc/installing and Doc/distributing 
directories, and add a link to the old guides from the distutils docs page.

That will keep the legacy docs available, while removing all the confusing 
legacy cruft from the new end user facing docs (which can now just be very 
brief before redirecting to packaging.python.org).

--
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versions:  -Python 2.7, Python 3.3

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

I like the way the attached patch has worked out - I think it's complete from a 
structural point of view.

The two missing pieces are to fill in the contents for the new Installing and 
Distributing guides, and those will be kept deliberately short, since we want 
to minimise the duplicating of content from the Python Packaging User Guide.

--
keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file34307/issue19407_packaging_docs.diff

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Marcus Smith]

Marcus Smith added the comment:

Legacy version.  nice.   

btw, 
http://packaging.python.org/en/latest/tutorial.html#creating-and-using-virtual-environments;
 will certainly end up including pyvenv command examples as well.  currently 
just mentioned in a footnote.

like I mentioned on distutils-sig, I still hope to submit a patch to move 
critical content from the legacy pages to library/distutils.rst at some point.

also, btw, maybe you can fix this page real quick?  
http://www.python.org/documentation/.  not sure what repo/team is managing 
this, but it's referencing the old HHGTP.

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Thanks for the feedback!

Could you lob that last one at the pythondotorg issue tracker on GitHub (
https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues)?

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

And regarding moving the still-relevant content to the main distutils docs,
yeah that's still a good idea. However, that's going to take a fair bit
more work, since you'll need to evaluate the legacy content to decide what
needs preserving, and I don't know the technical details well enough to
make that call.

I figure the approach in my patch is a neat hack to move that task off the
Python 3.4 critical path, while still giving new Python 3.4 users a clean
and authoritative starting point for packaging issues :)

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Martin v . Löwis]

Martin v. Löwis added the comment:

I suggest that a documentation issue cannot be a release blocker. Most people 
read the documentation online, and will read an update once it is available.

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Agreed, this was set to ensure Larry followed up with a Please explain if
I didn't get it done in a timely manner.

I'll still try to get it done for the beta, but I still have
linux.conf.aupreparation to do, so it may slip to the first RC.

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com:


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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

After reviewing the Extending  Embedding docs recently, I think a 
disclaimer/redirect to the tool recommendations in the Python Packaging User 
Guide is appropriate there as well.

Marcus also added an issue to update the distutils docs themselves: 
https://bitbucket.org/pypa/python-packaging-user-guide/issue/29/modernize-distutils-docs

(The user guide tracker is currently serving as a metatracker for docs issues 
for all the core tools)

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset a9f91a38a265 by Nick Coghlan in branch '2.7':
Issue #19407: add Python Packaging User Guide notes
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/a9f91a38a265

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 16b7536e418b by Nick Coghlan in branch '3.3':
Issue #19407: add Python Packaging User Guide notes
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/16b7536e418b

New changeset bc21da9727ad by Nick Coghlan in branch 'default':
Issue #19407: merge PPUG notes from 3.3
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/bc21da9727ad

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com:


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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Larry, just a heads up that as a docs patch that isn't directly affected by the 
feature freeze, I likely won't get to this one until after beta 1.

We'll make sure issue 19406 and the other functional changes are resolved, 
though.

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Alternative (more sensible) option - leave the packaging user guide hosted on 
ReadTheDocs, and if we decide to add a python.org subdomain for it later, that 
won't break any existing links.

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Marcus Smith (aka @qwcode) has made good strides this week in getting the 
Python Packaging User Guide to a presentable state using the current Python 
docs theme.

Bootstrapping: 
https://python-packaging-user-guide.readthedocs.org/en/latest/setup.html
Usage: 
https://python-packaging-user-guide.readthedocs.org/en/latest/installation.html

Accordingly, I think it makes sense to:
1. Arrange for a copy of this guide to be hosted somewhere on docs.python.org
2. Refer to that from the per-version distutils guides rather than referring 
directly to pip-installer.org

Thoughts?

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Donald Stufft]

Changes by Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io:


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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

New submission from Nick Coghlan:

Updating the Installing Python Modules docs in 2.7, 3.3 and default to 
recommend pip as the default cross-platform installer.

--
assignee: ncoghlan
components: Documentation
messages: 201343
nosy: benjamin.peterson, georg.brandl, larry, ncoghlan
priority: release blocker
severity: normal
status: open
title: PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation
type: enhancement
versions: Python 2.7, Python 3.3, Python 3.4

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Once issue 19406 is implemented, this will need an additional update to 
indicate pip should be available by default in 3.4.

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dependencies: +PEP 453: add the ensurepip module

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Issue 19437 tracks overall PEP 453 implementation progress

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Issue 19347 tracks overall PEP 453 implementation progress

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[issue19407] PEP 453: update the Installing Python Modules documentation

[Nick Coghlan]

Changes by Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com:


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Removed message: http://bugs.python.org/msg201346

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