[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

I just tried to run IDLE from the command line as a (UNIX) user would. And then 
I grepped. :)

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Thanks.  Did you grep the whole repository for 'idlelib' or did you think to 
look for the latter two?

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 5dcc52d6829f by Ned Deily in branch 'default':
Issue #24225: Fix additional renamed module references.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/5dcc52d6829f

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I brought IDLE news entries up to date 2 days ago.  This patch updates 
README.txt with the new names and many new entries for event handlers.  A 
What's New entry needs to wait for more patches, and is the subject of #27163.  
This completes the 'still to do' list in msg266572.

--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: needs patch -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 20bd4c23cfe4 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'default':
Issue # 24225: Update idlelib.README.txt with new file names and event handlers.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/20bd4c23cfe4

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I have a new idea for public interfaces: keep most of idlelib private and add a 
new 'interface' module containing public interfaces.  It could be backported to 
3.5 and even 2.7.

This was prompted by working with turtledemo.  It currently imports textview, 
percolator, and colorizer to create a colorized code viewer.  At the moment, 
changing the names in the three imports worked, but that could change if any of 
the files are refactored.  (And what about people who have trouble hooking the 
three components together correctly?)

Instead, lets create, say, class ColorCodeview (or maybe a function) in 
interface and have turtledemo do one import, say 'from idlelib.interface import 
ColorCodeview'.  The internal code code would be slilghtly different in each of 
2.7, 3.5, and 3.6 (and maybe different again sometime after the initial 
commit).  But the import and basic use should be the same.

The only thing I might put in the main idlelib doc would be something like 'See 
the interface module for currently supported external uses of idlelib 
components."

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Revision should definitely be tested on Mac by running IDLE from a console to 
check for any Mac-specific warnings and check that the menu looks 'right', 
which is to say, same as with 3.5.

Still to do: news entries, What's New section, README.txt revision with new 
names.

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stage: test needed -> needs patch

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 6ecd4db71b88 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'default':
Issue #24225: Rename many idlelib/*.py and idlelib/idle_test/test_*.py files.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/6ecd4db71b88

New changeset 0c3fdb161901 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'default':
Issue #24225: Within idlelib files, update idlelib module names.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/0c3fdb161901

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

The only external uses I know of currently are the imports of 
percolator/colorizer and textview in turtledemo.  There is currently a coloring 
glitch in 3.5 which continues in 3.6 after the renames.  See #27117.  I won't 
be surprised if making the colorizer easier to test (by adding an option to 
explicity pass a color scheme, for instance) makes it easier to use.

I will keep other uses in mind if informed about them.

My careful use tests also pinned down an existing and bizarre glitch in 
tkinter.simpledialog, reported in #27115.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

To add to Terry's points: folks that would like to keep using the idlelib APIs 
as they exist in Python 3.5 will be free to create an idlelib35 project on 
PyPI, and bundle that or depend on it, depending on how their application 
manages dependencies.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Serhiy, and anyone else: I am *painfully* aware that any change to idlelib 
could break 3rd party imports.  Efforts to improve IDLE have been crippled by 
the restriction of not doing so for years. But idlelib exists to implement IDLE 
and change is necessary to modernize IDLE.

In June/July 2010, after KBK left IDLE development, there was a long pydev 
discussion (50-100? posts) based on agreement that IDLE was somewhat old and 
crusty.  The question was whether to removed it from the stdlib or modernize 
it.  The latter meant: use ttk widgets, more to a modern single window, 
multi-pane, multi-tab design, and (I am sure) modernize the code.  As a Python 
user on Windows, I urged keeping IDLE.  The response, and the end of the 
discussion, were decisions to a) keep IDLE, at least for awhile, and b) to hand 
me commit privileges so I could try to help modernize IDLE.

I subsequently added 'a comprehensive test suite' as part of 'modernize'.  With 
GSOC student help, a start has been made.  What have not been added -- yet -- 
are tests that require refactoring and api changes -- because such changes 
could possibly break some person's use of the module.  I am no longer willing 
to apply significant patches without being able to freely write needed tests.

In February 2013, I helped write PEP 434, which mostly formalized points that 
were more or less informally true before.  One is the purpose of idlelib.  
Another is that idlelib should be regarded as private in that it should be 
allowed to change, and even break 3rd party use (sometime in the undefined 
future) as needed to improve IDLE.

[Insert first 4 paragraphs and other bits of #26993, as well as the posts on 
this issue from a year ago.]

Why this patch, now.  1. a consistent set of PEP 8 module names, distinct from 
class names, is already beneficial to me.  Also see Al's and my comments above. 
 Note that Al independently came to the same conclusion as I after writing a 
few IDLE patches.  Others who have worked with the code have said the same.  2. 
Consolidation and splitting of files will require new names anyway.  3.  Even 
if we kept the current nasty hodgepodge of naming styles, I expect that changes 
withing files would eventually break most 3rd party imports anyway.  4. I think 
it better to break 3rd party imports all at once, in an early alpha release, 
than haphazardly over the course of 3.6 releases.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Ned, the rename (only) patch is useless to read as it is hg's bloated expansion 
of the rename commands in i3rename.bat.

The main update is based on my review of Al's patch.  In user testing, I 
discovered that the debugger depended on 'RemoteDebugger.py' being prefix + 
'Debugger.py', so that its code needed more than a simple name replacement when 
I changed to 'debugger.py' and 'debugger_r.py'.  We both missed "from idlelib 
import PathBrowser" buried in EditorWindow.open_path_browser.  I plan to 
collapse the update patches after I finish live user testing.  I am now using 
patched IDLE for further editing.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

> Ned, do you want me to post the patches first?

Terry, at this stage of the release cycle, I think that's up to you and whether 
you want someone to do a code review prior to pushing upstream.  Since this 
sounds like a fairly major change, though, it might be the prudent thing to do. 
 I would be happy to take a quick look at the patches myself but I'm not in a 
position to do a detailed review of IDLE code; hopefully, others more familiar 
with it would be.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

'De-extensionizing' issue is #27099.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I have privately committed 3 patches.  Patch 1 is a renaming patch equivalent 
to Al's 2 renaming patches.  Patch 2 updates filesnames within code, equivalent 
to Al's third patch.  At this point, 'python -m test.test_idle' ran with all 
188 test_methods passing.  (I added several more test files last week.)  IDLE 
started, but loading of the 9 extension files failed, entries with old names in 
.idlerc/config-extensions.cfg caused warning messages.  The htests more or less 
work.

Patch 3 results in IDLE starting without warnings and with all extensions 
loaded.  It a) updated the file names in config-extensions.def.  It b) added 
' = ', for example 'runscript = ScriptBinding', where 
'ScriptBinding' is still the name of the class defined in the file, to meet the 
extension requirement that extension files have a callable entry point with the 
same name as the file.

It also c) temporarily blocks reading from and writing to 
.idlerc/config-extensions.cfg.  Reading old file names in existing 
customizations results in failed imports.  This could be fixed in 3.6 by 
filtering old names, but there would still be the problem that writing 
customizations with new names would result in failed import warnings in all 
older versions, and we cannot patch existing releases.  This is another example 
of how all-version config files are fragile to change.

At this point, IDLE starts normally, with no warnings.  I will retry the 
htests, work through the menus, and test the shell and editor windows, looking 
for other name related problems.  Once this is done, and any fixes made, this 
issue will be complete, and I would like to push the three or four patches.

Ned, do you want me to post the patches first?

I will open another issue about turning extensions into normal code, so 
config-extensions will only be for external extensions.  Then 
config-extensions.cfg can be read (with filtering) and written (but there will 
be nothing to write without added extensions).

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Attached are my current renames, with just a few changes from before  Most are 
lower case versions of the current names, perhaps shortened.  I expect names 
with '_' to disappear in future file merges.  I may change 'outwin' before 3.6 
is released.

The biggest changes are the 3 xyzBindings files.  In tk, bind methods connect 
an event to an event handler.  Bindings.py defines the menu of the main 
windows, and the associated pseudoevents, but not the event bindings.  Hence, 
'mainmenu'.  (I considered just 'menu', but 'menu' is used as a local name in 
multiple places.)  The other two may have bindings, but that is a fairly 
trivial implementatin detail and I would rather have name that reflect what the 
files do or implement.  If 'iomenu' is expanded to implement more of the file 
menu, I may rename it 'filemenu' or 'files'.

I have an independent clone of 3.6 with no connection to my normal working 
repositories.  We can discuss squashing commits or not when I am ready to push.

Al's 'idle_updating_imports.patch' missed a couple of renames in comments, but 
its code changes seem complete and correct as of a year ago.  (The main change 
is replacing some code with the new help.py.) It will be very useful.  I 
replaced his new names with mine with a short program and expect only a couple 
of chunks to fail.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file42951/i3rename.bat

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

turtledemo.__main__ imports from idlelib will also need fixing.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


--
superseder: Idlelib: changing file names -> 

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


--
resolution: later -> 
stage:  -> test needed
superseder:  -> Idlelib: changing file names

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

The conclusion of issue 26993 is that we should apply this issue to 3.6.  My 
target for inclusion is alpha2, scheduled for June 12.

I am aware that this will require changing file names in existing patches on 
the tracker.  But they nearly all have the much larger problem of needing the 
new tests that I will now start to require.

Nick suggested above that breaking code should be more palatable if introduced 
in a context of overall improvement, including better clarity in supported 
APIs.  Here is a start on the IDLE What's New entry that should be part of this 
issue.

"Idlelib is being revamped to make IDLE look better and work better and to make 
it easier to maintain and improve IDLE.

Part of looking better is the use of ttk widgets.  As a result, IDLE no longer 
runs with tcl/tk 8.4.  It now requires tcl/tk 8.5 or 8.6.  We recommend running 
the latest release of either.

'Revamping' includes renaming, refactoring, and consolidation of idlelib 
modules. As a result, imports of idlelib files that worked in 3.5 will usually 
not work in 3.6.  At least a module name change will be needed, sometimes more. 
 Information will be added to idlelib.  In compensation, the eventual result 
with be that some idlelib classes will be easier to use, with better APIs and 
docstrings explaining them."

--
nosy: +ned.deily
versions:  -Python 3.5

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Alternate proposal is #26993.

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versions:  -Python 2.7

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

For back compatibility reasons, I rejected a 'simple renaming', much as I would 
like to do it for reasons already given, and closed *this* issue in msg250451.  
As I said then here and elsewhere, I instead propose to add new files with new 
names.  As I said above, I will propose a specific, revised plan in a new issue 
that I will open after some sleep. Please wait for that to discuss anything 
other than specific new names.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

I don't think that simple renaming will give us any benefits, but if that will 
be made, please don't forgot to use the "hg mv" command for this for keeping 
the history. And please rename 2.7 files too, otherwise the backporting changes 
will be turned in hell.

--
stage: resolved -> 
status: closed -> open

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Uploading slightly revised version.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file42678/@newnames.txt

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file42677/@newnames.txt

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Since I posted the message above, I have decided that there should be a new 
version of every currently used idlelib .py file and that all additions, with 
new names of course, should be done at once, but only to 3.5 and 3.6.  I will 
soon open a new issue to explain why and post the number here.

To prepare the patch for the new issue, I will try to use file 
idle_updating_imports.patch after replacing some of the new names with ones I 
prefer.  The attached @newnames.txt is the list from msg243572 with the 
addition of the new names I currently favor.  Some notes:

1. idlever.py and ToolTip.py are not currently used, and will be deleted from 
the patch.

2. help.py is new in 3.5.1 and currently only has the help viewer.  It starts 
by declaring itself subject to change.  I plan to move all other help menu code 
into this file and want to keep the name for the new file.  I plan to rename 
the current file 'helpviewer.py' and change the imports in EditorWindow.py and 
macosxSupport.py accordingly

3. Most of the changes I made were to delete underscores that Al inserted.  
They are not usually used in module names, even when they might be otherwise 
(example: tkinter.scrolledtext).

4. Other changes should make related files easier to find.

5. Some new names will disappear when files are combined.

Any further discussion here should be limited to the new names.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file42677/@newnames.txt

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

A new factor has entered the picture: the opportunity to move dialogs from 
using tk widgets to ttk widgets.  However, we cannot yet drop support for 
systems that do not have ttk widgets.  We could accommodate using both sets of 
dialog widgets by adding lots of conditional code within each file as needed, 
but that would only solve the ttk or not issue.

I decided instead to have separate files.  This way, the ttk files can have pep 
8 names and style and refactorings. New files will be declared private in 
docstrings. When a new file is written, corresponding old files, if imported 
(by an extension or non-idle program) when ttk *is* being used , will raise a 
Deprecation Warning.  The same idea will be used for the text window files for 
shell, edit, and output, which badly need refactoring both as they are and to 
allow tabbed windows with multiple files.

Overall, the plan is to gradually add new files to all current versions 
(except, probably, 3.4) and delete old files in the future (possibly in 3.6, 
but not decided now).  The transition overlap will be messier than a simple 
rename, but will avoid the problems of patch merges and immediately breaking 
3rd-party code.  And the result will be much more and much better than a simple 
rename.

--
assignee:  -> terry.reedy
resolution:  -> later
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Mark Roseman]

Changes by Mark Roseman m...@markroseman.com:


--
nosy: +markroseman

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

One path you may want to consider is progressively factoring out a public 
idlelib.extensions API, and treat everything else in idlelib as fair game for 
renaming. Folks tend to be more tolerant of disruption if the new state of 
affairs is also clearly better for them, not just the folks making the change.

In terms of supporting legacy module names without retaining all that 
complexity in the main source code, I'd suggest looking into the way the 
six.moves module works.

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Al, I meant to add that msg243612 better expresses the proper rationale for 
disruptive changes: making it easier for people (newcomers and this 
no-longer-newcomer) to learn idlelib, fix bugs, and make improvements

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[issue24225] Idlelib: changing file names

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Nick, as PEP 434 approver, I would like your comments on this issue.

The pep says that other than the startup modules, the modules are undocumented 
and effectively private implementations.  It also says that the documented 
extension API should be respected but is vague about the extent to which the 
existence of extensions should otherwise be reasons to block changes to idlelib.

While this issue is about module names, changes to names and behavior within 
modules could also break extensions. We have in fact made such changes without 
worring about this.

Fedora 22 replaced yum with dnf as its package managater.  Accordig to
http://dnf.baseurl.org/2015/05/11/yum-is-dead-long-live-dnf/
one of the reasons is problems with extensions. Yum plugins are using any 
method from Yum code base thus any change there would cause the sudden crash of 
the Yum utility.  (What yum and idlelib have is common is mostly being 
undocumented.)  In a comment, the author summed up my feelings with respect to 
idlelib: It really hard to maintain a project where you can’t change anything.

An example is #24199. I want to remove a zombie module, idlever.  Can I?  At 
least for 2.7 and 3.4, I think I will add a deprecation warning.

If we rename and refactor modules for 3.6, I would propose to add stub files to 
2.7 and 3.5 with imports and a deprecation warning.  A combined completions 
module, for example, would get two stub files.  (An alternative for 2.7 could 
be to fix the worst bugs, declare Idle 2.7 frozen, and stop backporting.)

During the PEP 434 discussion, some core developers said that they would like 
to drop Idle completely.  This would break extensions much more thoroughly than 
changes proposed here.

Al: some research into extension practices would be helpful.  But keep in mind 
that idlex is much more than a set of extension modules. I believe it adds its 
own ui. 

Al: the current discrepancies between module and test names are intentional. 
The 'controversy' is entirely about idlelib, hence the title change.  When 
idlelib modules get 'nice' names, test names can be changed to match.

--
nosy: +ncoghlan
title: IDLE test filenames don't match script filenames. - Idlelib: changing 
file names
versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.6

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