[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Since uipreferences.py was written, in 2015, configdialog uses ttk widgets, 
including Notebook.  We have factored out a class for each notebook pane plus 
one for help sources and one for traced variables.

I have in mind something like highlight3.png and will look at the Listbox and 
Combobox code while experimenting with a couple of things.

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nosy:  -kbk

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


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versions: +Python 3.10 -Python 3.5, Python 3.6

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

Have added the 'apply changes to other elements with same background?' feature 
in my private copy. To save constantly uploading new versions on every tweak, 
when we're ready to evaluate/integrate, I'll pass it along.

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

OK, will ask before review.

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

Attached uipreferences.py, which is a newer and more complete version of the 
one in prefs-wip.patch

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40276/uipreferences.py

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

Regarding the setting background for the multiple elements.. one possibility is 
that the first time in a session they change the background of an element that 
was same as the background, we ask if they'd like to apply that change to the 
other program elements that have the same background.

I hope that wouldn't be too You seem to be writing a letter... :-)

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

I am admittedly not a fan of skinnable user interfaces, especially for 
non-entertainment applications. It doesn't add anything to the usability, and 
makes support harder. It always says to me hello, 2002 called and wants it's 
user interface back. I think the actual changing themes part of ttk is the 
least useful piece.

However, I've no grand objection to adding a setting in the general pane for 
this, perhaps called User Interface Skin. 

I'm still very fond of themes for the syntax coloring tab. The two most 
commonly used terms seem to be themes (e.g. TextMate, Eclipse), and color 
schemes (e.g. Sublime, UltraEdit).

On the matter of changing background color, what I mean is that to modify the 
background color so that e.g. it's off-white instead of white, you need to 
change I think it's nine different theme elements.

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

So you mean text background as opposed to widget background.  I changed the 
background of non-user-entered shell, stdout, and stderr text in my personal 
highlight theme to light versions of the foreground, and like the result so 
much I have considered proposing changing the defaults. The result in Shell is 
to separate user entries from prompts and output and the latter three from each 
other.

This leaves the 6 user-entry text items with white background. This would be 
helpful since most people would want all 6 backgrounds in the editor the same 
and it is tedious to get all 6 the same 1 at a time and even worse to 
experiment with different settings. The explanation might be a bit tricky, but 
the idea is simple enough once seen.  However, I would not want the 
individualized colors for non-user text altered.

It seems that you want to be able to collectively define 'background white' to 
an off-white that would either apply to all user-entered

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

Looking to get some feedback on a large chunk of new code (not yet complete), 
for the 'new' preferences dialog. Not so much UI things as if I've made any 
glaring structural errors which aren't obvious to this Python sorta-newbie.

For lack of a better place, I've attached prefs-wip.patch, which just contains 
code for four entirely new files (querydialog.py, tkextras.py, uifactory.py, 
and uipreferences.py), no changes to existing files. You should be able to run 
it standalone just with e.g. python -m idlelib.uipreferences

There's some comments at the start of uipreferences.py regarding structural 
changes from the code in the original configDialog.py.

Thanks!

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keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40198/prefs-wip.patch

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

As I think I said elsewhere, I want myself and others to be able to select 
among the style themes provided with ttk, as well as any other themes (a dark 
theme?) that we or users devise.  A custom theme would be a good project for a 
UI design class.

I do not understand the background color question.

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

The squares next to foreground/background are placeholders for those controls I 
can't remember what they're called (colour wells?) where it shows the current 
colour, and clicking it brings up a colour picker allowing you to change. So 
separate ones for foreground/background rather than a radio button to say what 
you'll set and then a button to set it. Sorry for the confusion.

Any reason that you'd want to actually include a choice of ttk themes? Not sure 
that would really add anything positive to the overall UX (especially on Mac 
and Windows).

Worth discussing more about the name 'theme' (which seems to be common in other 
code editors) vs. 'text highlighting' vs. other alternatives.

Btw, is there a way to change the background colour and/or has that topic come 
up before?

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I find the new arrangement more confusing.

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

I would make theme element chooser a list box and move the sample to the right.

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

One of the other options I was playing with previously was a listbox for 
choosing the theme (what I'd suspect is the main user activity here).

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40110/cfg_highlight_alt.png

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

New submission from Mark Roseman:

Placeholder for improvements to the syntax highlighting tab in IDLE config 
dialog.

I've attached cfg_highlight.png which shows a before and after I'm suggesting 
as a starting point. It would have the same functionality but uses a lot less 
pieces to implement it. Thoughts?

--
components: IDLE
files: cfg_highlight.png
messages: 247897
nosy: kbk, markroseman, roger.serwy, terry.reedy
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab
type: enhancement
versions: Python 3.5, Python 3.6
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40109/cfg_highlight.png

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Mark Roseman]

Mark Roseman added the comment:

cfg_highlight_alt.png shows with the listbox for choosing a theme

Also added highlight3.png... same kind of thing, but by renaming the tab as 
'Themes' you no longer even need the row of labels at the top. And it parallels 
the fonts/tabs design suggestion somewhat too.

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40111/highlight3.png

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[issue24781] Improve UX of IDLE Highlighting configuration tab

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

After I added a custom Terry theme, my main activity has been tweaking it. 
Version 3 is an clear improvement over the existing tab.  With the example box 
on top, I think the comment should be
# Click here or dropbox
# below to change item.

0 Foregound 0 Background are supposed to be radio buttons.  The black and white 
squares look like anything but.

'Theme' is ambiguous as to Idle's text highlighting themes versus ttk's widget 
style themes. I think the current grouping should be labeled 'Text 
Highlighting'.  This will pave the way to add, to the ttk version, a 'Widget 
Style' listbox allowing users to choose among those available.

With these items resolved, I would be inclined to apply a tk patch to all 
versions.

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