[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Posting an alternate draft that takes the approach MAL suggested, emphasising 
the personal motivation side of things.

This one doesn't attempt to pre-categories the list of contributors - instead, 
I'd expect us to do that based on analysis of the raw text.

The opening section also makes it clear that we're not shifting the goal posts 
on becoming a core contributor - the only required disclosure remains that 
which is needed to sign the CLA and submit the signed copy to the PSF.

I like this version a lot better then the previous draft, but am still open to 
suggestions for improving both the formatting and the content.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40591/motives.diff

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


--
nosy: +terry.reedy

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

I think the change in tone that MAL suggested will go a long way towards 
clarifying the opt-in nature of the idea - my initial draft took too much of 
its phrasing from contexts where disclosure is required rather than optional.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger added the comment:

Please make it clear that any listings are optional.  No core developer is 
required to write anything about themselves that they don't want to make public.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

Antoine: think that's exactly what Nick has in mind, exposing that kind of 
information.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou added the comment:

What would be the rules for how to fill this up?

For example, I work for Continuum, which develops Conda and Anaconda, but I'm 
not paid to work on CPython (I work on Numba). However, perhaps someone might 
want to ask for CPython work that aligns with Continuum's interests, and then 
I'd obviously be in the loop for the actual work.

--
nosy: +pitrou

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Right, I'm in a similar situation at Red Hat to the one Antoine's in at 
Continuum Analytics - I'm not personally part of Red Hat's Python maintenance 
team (I used to work on internal Engineering tools, and now work on Fedora's 
overall developer experience), but I do sometimes spend work time helping our 
Python maintainers negotiate the upstream contribution and collaboration 
process. I also have quite a bit of leeway when it comes to getting sidetracked 
on upstream activities related to CPython, distutils-sig or the PSF.

Disclosing that affiliation aims to address a few things:

* it lets other community members know that Red Hat's interests are something 
I'm considering in community discussions - core development isn't a purely 
volunteer activity for me any more (and hasn't been for a number of years)
* it lets other Red Hatters know they have at least one colleague that may be 
able to help them out if they need particular CPython issues looked at more 
closely
* it (hopefully) helps nudge other commercial organisations towards the notion 
of either paying commercial redistributors or hiring current core developers to 
address their Python support needs, rather than expecting community volunteers 
to support their business activities for free
* inverting that last motivation, I'm hoping to help encourage commercial 
redistributors and other folks with a vested interest in the long term 
sustainability of CPython core development to engage professionally with 
current core contributors, and also allow their existing staff to spend work 
time on *becoming* core contributors

As far as more specific guidelines go, I'm thinking it may be worth including 
some notes on "Why might a core contributor want to publicly disclose their 
affiliations?" and "Why might a core contributor want to preserve their 
privacy?". I'm not sure exactly what that would look like yet, but I'll come up 
with something for the next draft.

For the final section on availability for consulting, training, and contract 
work, I think David makes a good point regarding folks potentially *wanting* to 
broadcast their availability, so I'll draft that such that "Contact via the 
PSF" is an option that core contributors can choose to take up. That way folks 
can choose between "available for direct contact" and "available for screened 
PSF referrals".

I'll aim to put that next draft together this coming Sunday.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan added the comment:

Ezio's right I ended up mixing together a few different objectives here, which 
is an artifact of how the idea came about:

* my starting point was wanting a list of folks that already have commit access 
(and hence are demonstrably familiar to the core development community) that 
the PSF can either contract with directly for work on the toolchain (and 
perhaps for devoting time to the tracker patch backlog), or else refer 
companies to. At the moment we do this based on personal knowledge, which means 
there are going to be missed opportunities to make connections with folks the 
current Board of Directors don't know personally.

* in the ensuing discussion, I realised the "we're all volunteers here" 
disclaimer isn't true at the moment, and is unlikely to ever be true again, and 
that's something that would be good to disclose to help folks understand the 
sustaining engineering model that has emerged around CPython

The draft patch ended up being framed as the latter, while still covering the 
former, which I agree is confusing.

As a result, I like the idea of making the page title "Motivations and 
Affiliations" to focus on the "Why are we here?" aspect.

At the end, we can then have a section "Availability for PSF Referrals" and ask 
core developers that are potentially able to take on contract and freelance 
work to let the PSF Board know. We can then maintain that list in confidence, 
rather than requiring people to broadcast their availability for contract work 
to the entire internet.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Ezio Melotti]

Ezio Melotti added the comment:

> Wouldn't it be better to put the emphasis on a) core devs who do this 
> in their free time, b) core devs who would be available for hired work, 
> and c) showing off which companies indirectly support Python via 
> employing core devs and giving them time to do core dev work as part of 
> their job ?

I still think that a) and c) should be separate from b).  Core devs might be 
contributing in their free time (i.e. a) or as part as their job (i.e. c), and 
on top of this they might or might not be available for hired work (i.e. b).

> Essentially replacing "disclosure" and "financial interests" with 
> "motivation" and "support".

Agreed.  Perhaps even "affiliation" could be used, even though that doesn't 
imply that the affiliated company supports CPython.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Marc-Andre Lemburg]

Marc-Andre Lemburg added the comment:

I like the idea, but the phrasings "disclosure" and "financial interests" sound 
too negative, IMO.

Wouldn't it be better to put the emphasis on a) core devs who do this in their 
free time, b) core devs who would be available for hired work, and c) showing 
off which companies indirectly support Python via employing core devs and 
giving them time to do core dev work as part of their job ?

Essentially replacing "disclosure" and "financial interests" with "motivation" 
and "support".

See e.g. the list of supporting companies we have for infrastructure 
(https://www.python.org/psf/league/) as example in a different area.

--
nosy: +lemburg

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Nick Coghlan]

New submission from Nick Coghlan:

As suggested at 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2015-September/003556.html, 
this is a draft patch for a new section in the developer guide that allows core 
contributors to declare our major financial interest (if any) in the core 
development process.

In addition to adding a paragraph suggesting new core developers consider 
filling in the register, I also rephrased the section regarding respecting 
people's time to reflect the fact that we're not all volunteers these days.

Based on the discussion in the python-committers thread, I made the disclosure 
of commercial interests potentially impacting Python's design & development the 
main aim of the register, with the creation of a public list of the core 
developers available for contract and consulting work as a positive side 
benefit.

--
assignee: ncoghlan
components: Devguide
files: register-of-interests.diff
keywords: patch
messages: 251158
nosy: ezio.melotti, ncoghlan, willingc
priority: normal
severity: normal
stage: patch review
status: open
title: Register of Financial Interests for core contributors
type: enhancement
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file40527/register-of-interests.diff

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger added the comment:

FWIW, I think this is bad idea and opens a can of worms.  Occasionally, I'm 
consulting and under NDA or my clients don't want they're doing disclosed.  
Also, I feel this is a transgression into my personal life.   My financial 
affairs are my own business and I want my contributions to be evaluated on 
their merits rather than on who I taught a Python course to or a commercial 
project that I may have participated in.

I'm already sensitive to this.  As a Certified Public Accountant, the state I'm 
live in thinks that "in the public interest" I am required to have my home 
address listed on a public website and that my fingerprints be kept on file in 
the U.S. criminal database.

I would sooner quit being a core developer that be required by you to register 
my financial interests.  That is too personal and I won't do it.

--
nosy: +rhettinger

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Ezio Melotti]

Ezio Melotti added the comment:

The "Consultants and Freelance Developers" seems to cover two different aspects:
  1) list devs that are consultants or freelance developers for a living;
  2) list devs that are available and can be hired to work on short term 
projects;

The second aspect seems orthogonal to the rest of the section (I could be 
working as educator/trainer, but also be available for short term projects).

IIUC the main goal here is to disclose who are we working for (if any).  
However, unless I'm misunderstanding, you also want to have a list of core 
developers that might be available to do paid work.  ISTM that this paid work 
could cover at least 3 different categories:
  1) work that won't directly benefit CPython (e.g. a company can hire me as a 
consultant for one of their project);
  2) work that will benefit CPython (e.g. a company can pay me to add an 
approved feature/bugfix to CPython);
  3) work on CPython paid by the PSF (e.g. the PSF can pay me to implement a 
PEP or to work on the infrastructure);

I'm not sure if this was your intention, but if it was, I would put it in a 
separate section.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Raymond Hettinger]

Changes by Raymond Hettinger :


--
Removed message: http://bugs.python.org/msg251186

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Ezio Melotti]

Ezio Melotti added the comment:

This is not a requirement though:

+CPython core contributors are encouraged, but not required, to disclose the
+means by which they fund their ability to contribute time to CPython core
+development.

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[issue25194] Register of Financial Interests for core contributors

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger added the comment:

I would object to any new requirement to disclose any information that I 
consider to be private or personal.

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