[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Should be: "I did't *try* elsewhere.", not "see elsewhere".

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

FTR, Raymond reports in a tweet 
(https://twitter.com/raymondh/status/1184667350953447424) that it is possible 
to get logged out if you ignore the warning and try to open a file in IDLE when 
the System Preference is set to always open documents in tabs.  I was able to 
reproduce with macOS 10.14.6 on real hardware (I didn't see elsewhere).  This 
is clearly a Tk issue and there has been a lot of work going on in Tk in this 
area since Tk 8.6.8.  We have been waiting for an official 8.6.10 release to 
again try to update the python.org built-in Tcl/Tk after the very 
unsatisfactory experience with 8.6.9; until then still best to heed the warning!

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Ned, the warning is non-specific as to what might go wrong.  I would not want 
to remove it until I had tested everything possibly relevant with tabbing set.  
And there is still the possibility that people will run IDLE with earlier tk 
releases.

The #33397 issue of the close button disappearing was solved by packing the 
close button first.  In the editor, the status bar is already packed into the 
ListedTopLevel first, before the text frame (perhaps for the same reason).

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

PR 6665, for #33397 (add font resizing to text view and help viewer) got listed 
because I discovered that increasing and decreasing font size with control 
wheel/+/- can cause the [close] button to disappear and reappear. (I hope to 
use FontSizer for editor texts as well, and don't want it to affect the status 
bar.)  I speculated that there might be some connection to this issue.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Cheryl Sabella]

Change by Cheryl Sabella :


--
pull_requests: +10414

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

FWIW: I did a quick check of the 3.7.2rc1 IDLE, that now has Tk 8.6.9.1, with 
the "prefer tabs" setting on.  The newly added check in IDLE does work as 
designed but it also looked like the original problem has been fixed in Tk, 
that is, the co-ordinates did seem to show up in the tabs.  It's probably fine 
to leave things as they are but I mention it in case anyone wants to revisit 
this :)

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 10665544a97b6616898faafc12ac9d06505d0690 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.6':
bpo-34864: warn if "Prefer tabs when opening documents" set to "Always" 
(GH-10464)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/10665544a97b6616898faafc12ac9d06505d0690


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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 2db190bb356d00422087e1286637887efb8d97c5 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.7':
bpo-34864: warn if "Prefer tabs when opening documents" set to "Always" 
(GH-10464)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/2db190bb356d00422087e1286637887efb8d97c5


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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +10249

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +10248

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset 9ebe8794f003dadfff578a066ea503a3e37ffe1d by Terry Jan Reedy (Tal 
Einat) in branch 'master':
bpo-34864: warn if "Prefer tabs when opening documents" set to "Always" (#10464)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/9ebe8794f003dadfff578a066ea503a3e37ffe1d


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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Changing only master could make backports difficult to impractical.  (Pure 
module name changes would be an exception if gits keep track of them and 
reverses them for a backport.)

If a module is touched, user changes to that module get wiped out when the 
module is replaced.  Aside from that, most of idlelib was declared private and 
'subject to change' to allow refactoring.  The only problem I have heard about 
is that 3.6 broke IDLEX (as I expected).  IDLEX which made changes far beyond 
the narrow extension protocol.  Roger solved that by incorporating a private 
copy of 3.5 IDLE with whatever modifications he wants.  This is exactly what 
Nick said people should do, in the 3.6 alpha discussion, if they wanted frozen 
IDLE.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

See #35213 for 'macOS' changes.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

By default, macOS installers just install the files included in a package.  For 
macOS Python installer packages, the problem arises if a particular file is 
deleted or renamed in a maintenance release and a user has already installed an 
earlier version of that release family.  It's possible for a post-install 
script to be added to the macOS installer to deal with particular files but 
that doesn't happen automatically.  On Linux and other OSes, it would depend 
how the third-party distributor's packaging system works; some would detect a 
changed or missing file name, some likely wouldn't.  And there's always the 
possibility that third-party packages or users are using or modifying standard 
library files.  It's just best to avoid the problem altogether unless there is 
some really compelling reason.  Of course renames or deletes for the initial 
release of a feature branch (e.g. 3.8.0) generally aren't a problem.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I will leave macosx alone at least until after 3.6.8.  But I plan to merge some 
modules and want to be able to rename others.  #33906 changed windows.py to 
window.py for 3.7.1 (and 3.6.7).  The 3.7.1 Windows installer deleted 
windows.py; the macOS installer did not.  Tal, do you have a Linux 3.7.1 
upgrade of 3.7.0?  What is the downside of the old, dead version?

I could, for the maintenance version, add back a file containing
"# renamed xyz.py" or "# merged into abc.py".  An possible example of the 
latter is merging autocomplete_w.py into autocomplete.py.  (I strongly suspect 
that the split was for a Java-esque one-class per module rule.)  Can modules be 
made system specific without great hassle?

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

See PR GH-10464, which warns if "Prefer tabs when opening documents" is set to 
"Always".

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Change by Tal Einat :


--
pull_requests: +9737

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

Can we detect whether this system preference is enabled? If so, perhaps
IDLE should display a prominent warning.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

I don’t think it’s worth changing the file name or other names, that just 
causes needless churn and the possibility for stranded files on an upgrade. I’d 
just update the docs and messages.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

OK, I will change doc references in the next doc patch, or maybe in a patch 
that also changes module macosx to macos.  (I want to keep it all lowercase.

--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> closed
type: behavior -> enhancement
versions:  -Python 2.7

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset a650493a4626c309b34a38919a41f5de32de3721 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.6':
bpo-34864: Document two IDLE on MacOS issues. (GH-10456)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/a650493a4626c309b34a38919a41f5de32de3721


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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset b91c27d89de83ee664e3726e066eb2e424d84bdf by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.7':
bpo-34864: Document two IDLE on MacOS issues. (GH-10456)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/b91c27d89de83ee664e3726e066eb2e424d84bdf


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nosy: +miss-islington

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Terry, FYI, according to Apple, the correct current styling for the Mac 
Operating System is "macOS".  We should be using that spelling in the 
documentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +9733

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +9732

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset 50ff02b43145f33f8e28ffbfcc6a9d15c4749a64 by Terry Jan Reedy in 
branch 'master':
bpo-34864: Document two IDLE on MacOS issues. (GH-10456)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/50ff02b43145f33f8e28ffbfcc6a9d15c4749a64


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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


--
keywords: +patch
pull_requests: +9731
stage:  -> patch review

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Change by Tal Einat :


--
type:  -> behavior

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Change by Tal Einat :


--
versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.8

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

I agree that mentioning that IDLE won't work 100% with that setting on is a 
good idea.  I also agree that at this point it's not worth the effort to do 
anything more than that.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

As part of revising the IDLE Docs, I want to add a section for running on MacOS 
(issue in preparation, section title undecided).  I already planned on 
mentioning this setting.  It seems it should be dis-recommended, at least at 
present.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Tal Einat]

Tal Einat  added the comment:

The search and replace dialogs are also broken by "Prefer tabs when opening 
documents" being active: they as separate tabs rather than a dialog window.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Kevin Walzer]

Kevin Walzer  added the comment:

The behavior outlined in the screenshot is, I believe, a component of the 
native Cocoa window that underlies Tk; it cannot be controlled or accessed from 
Tk. It's probably better to avoid altogether or re-implement somehow in IDLE.

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[issue34864] In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Optionally converting windows to tabs is an over-arching goal for IDLE.  To do 
it with IDLE code, IDLE must create a frame (and keep a reference) but not a 
toplevel.  I presume that  the Mac window manager extracts the window title and 
frame from the window, discards the window, and puts the title and frame on a 
tab.  Kevin, does tcl/tk know about or cooperate with this conversion?

IDLE's default editor size is configured as 40 lines of 80 characters.  On my 
MacBook Air, the windows are actually 38 lines; that is all that fits between 
the title bar and taskbar. Additional windows overlap, but are moved to the 
right.  If I set the window height to less than 38, say 30, the initial window 
does not fill the vertical space, showing some of the background beneath.  
Additional windows appear a bit down as well as to the right.

I found the setting under System Preferences Dock and more or less confirm 
Ned's report.  It appears that the status bar is hidden rather than deleted.  I 
set the initial window size to 36, 2 lines less than the actual maximum, hoping 
the status bar would remain in a larger window after opening a second window.  
No such luck. The size remains 36, with the bar hidden.  For the editor 
windows, grabbing the vertical resize made the status appear and stay.  For 
Shell, it disappeared either immediately or when tabbing away and back.  Since 
Shell subclasses EditorWindow, I don't know why the difference.

The resolution to this issue from IDLE's viewpoint should be a new IDLE doc 
subsection 'IDLE on MacOS', probably under 'Help and Preferences'.  It would 
explain differences from IDLE on Linux and Windows.  Besides this issue, there 
is the single title bar, menu differences, and zoom behavior (horizontal 
expansion as well as vertical).  Also, as far as I can tell so far (and someone 
correct me if this is wrong), only 1 instance of IDLE can run (for a given 
binary, at least), which means only 1 Shell.  (On Windows, I can run multiple 
instances of a given binary, and I presume the same is true on non-Mac *nix.)

--
title: In Idle, Mac tabs make bottom editor line with cursor location disappear 
-> In Idle, Mac tabs make editor status line disappear.
versions:  -Python 3.6, Python 3.8

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