[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Mariatta Wijaya  added the comment:

Thanks all. I've backported the change to 3.7. I think this is good to be 
closed.

--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> closed
versions: +Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 740a7cde9c0af5a237a7f6525b38d65a83f4fbf1 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.7':
bpo-36908: 'This module is always available' isn't helpful. (GH-13297)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/740a7cde9c0af5a237a7f6525b38d65a83f4fbf1


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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Kushal Das]

Kushal Das  added the comment:


New changeset 6faad355db6c2bd4a0ade7868f245b42c04f5337 by Kushal Das (Ned 
Batchelder) in branch 'master':
bpo-36908: 'This module is always available' isn't helpful. (#13297)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/6faad355db6c2bd4a0ade7868f245b42c04f5337


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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Kushal Das]

Kushal Das  added the comment:

In future we should do the similar change for any module. This will be helpful 
for new beginners.

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Emmanuel Arias]

Emmanuel Arias  added the comment:

> More useful would be to annotate those modules that might not be importable, 
> with a reason why.

yes, that is more reasonable. :-D

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Emmanuel Arias]

Emmanuel Arias  added the comment:

I agree. What about create a section (or subsection?) or  note with 
the text:


```
The next modules: sys, math ...  are always available. This
mean that ...
```

?

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Ned Batchelder]

Ned Batchelder  added the comment:

There are hundreds of modules that are always importable.  The majority of the 
standard library is always importable.  More useful would be to annotate those 
modules that might not be importable, with a reason why.

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Ned Batchelder]

Ned Batchelder  added the comment:

Looks like these modules describe themselves as always available: _thread, sys, 
threading, time.

Notice that the built-ins are also described as "always available", which is 
the meaning we're trying to move math away from (you can use them without 
importing anything).

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Ned Batchelder]

Ned Batchelder  added the comment:

If we want to keep it, how about "it can always be imported."? Though I still 
wonder whether this is worth it.  Are we going to annotate all of the 
always-available modules with this notation?

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Mariatta Wijaya]

Mariatta Wijaya  added the comment:

I agree the wording "is always available" is quite ambiguous. It's just that we 
use this phrase pretty much everywhere...

Example:
First paragraph of https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html
"It is always available."

https://docs.python.org/3/library/threading.html?highlight=threading#module-threading
 "This module used to be optional, it is now always available."

I wonder if it will be clearer if it says "is available across all platforms"?

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Ned Batchelder]

Change by Ned Batchelder :


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pull_requests: +13207
stage:  -> patch review

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[issue36908] "This module is always available" is confusing

[Ned Batchelder]

New submission from Ned Batchelder :

The math and cmath modules say this in their docs: "This module is always 
available."  This lead a beginner to believe they didn't need to be imported.

Nearly the entire standard library is always available in this sense (they can 
be imported).  This sentence isn't useful.

Can we change the first paragraph of the math module to be:

"This module provides access to the mathematical functions defined by the C 
standard."

(and similarly for the cmath module.)

--
assignee: docs@python
components: Documentation
messages: 342386
nosy: docs@python, nedbat
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: "This module is always available" is confusing

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