[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Chris Satterlee]

Chris Satterlee  added the comment:

FYI, it appears that 8.6.11 works ok with MacOS 12.1 (released on 13-Dec-2021). 
8.6.12 also works with MacOS 12.1. I have not tested either extensively, 
however.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Thanks everyone, especially Marc! python.org macOS installers for 3.9.8, 
3.10.0, and 3.11.0a2 with patched versions of Tk to avoid the filedialog 
problems on macOS 12 Monterey are now released and available for download. We 
can now close this issue and move on :)

https://discuss.python.org/t/python-3-9-8-and-3-11-0a2-are-now-available/11763

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Well, not exactly ...

culler@abner ~ % export SYSTEM_VERSION_COMPAT=1
culler@abner ~ % sw_vers
ProductName:Mac OS X
ProductVersion: 10.16
BuildVersion:   20G224
culler@abner ~ % export SYSTEM_VERSION_COMPAT=0
culler@abner ~ % sw_vers   
ProductName:macOS
ProductVersion: 11.6.1
BuildVersion:   20G224

But that would only be helpful to me if the operatingSystemVersion
property of an NSProcessInfo object also depended on that environment
variable.  Feel free to check the docs for an answer to that question:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsprocessinfo/1410906-operatingsystemversion

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren  added the comment:

> Where do you think that "feature" is documented?

I'd have to check, but I didn't learn this from Twitter, although it wouldn't 
surprise me if I learned this from a WWDC talk.

The beta for Big Sur never identified itself as 10.16 other than through this 
feature.  I guess Apple determined that too many applications only looked at 
the minor version determine if the current system is new enough. 

Applications compiled with/linked against a 11.0 or 12.0 SDK will always just 
see the real system version.

Note that this also affects programs just opening the SystemVersion.plist file, 
that will get substituted by an alternative version when the opening process 
links against an older SDK.  Calling sw_vers and parsing the output does return 
the right version though.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Łukasz Langa]

Łukasz Langa  added the comment:


New changeset 10b0c671580a2f8dd013b6345c1dc9789d5bd95c by Ned Deily in branch 
'3.8':
bpo-44828: Avoid leaving a zombie Save panel (GH-29372)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/10b0c671580a2f8dd013b6345c1dc9789d5bd95c


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Zack McCauley]

Zack McCauley  added the comment:

If you use the older methods to detect OSVersion, Monterey will also
identify as 10.16. iirc there’s an environment variable to enable or
disable that.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:54 AM Marc Culler  wrote:

>
> Marc Culler  added the comment:
>
> According to wikipedia, it was only the Big Sur beta that identified
> itself as 10.16.  (And I observed this with the beta).  But the release
> and, I think, the later Big Sur betas stopped doing that.
>
> But I did eventually find a page showing a tweet that "documents" this
> behavior:
>
> https://eclecticlight.co/2020/07/21/big-sur-is-both-10-16-and-11-0-its-official/
>
> I guess obscure tweets have replaced documentation.
>
> --
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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

According to wikipedia, it was only the Big Sur beta that identified
itself as 10.16.  (And I observed this with the beta).  But the release
and, I think, the later Big Sur betas stopped doing that.

But I did eventually find a page showing a tweet that "documents" this behavior:
https://eclecticlight.co/2020/07/21/big-sur-is-both-10-16-and-11-0-its-official/

I guess obscure tweets have replaced documentation.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Where do you think that "feature" is documented?

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren  added the comment:

> Heads up!  A strange Apple quirk has been identified which could affect the 
> file dialog behavior if the Tk library is compiled on macOS 10.XX and used on 
> macOS 11 or 12.  (I am not sure if this applies here.)

I'm pretty sure that's a documented feature. Any code compiled with a 10.15 or 
earlier SDK will never see version 11.0 or later when using regular in process 
APIs (and IIRC that includes usage of @available/__builtin_available)

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Zack McCauley]

Zack McCauley  added the comment:

Awesome, thanks for the clear update reason. Makes more sense now. I was
able to get our software to patch around.

An API to get the installer urls would be super helpful.

Thanks Ned!

On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 4:19 PM Ned Deily  wrote:

>
> Ned Deily  added the comment:
>
> After I posted the previous reply, I saw that there have been other users
> affected by this, so I have now also made the updated installer available
> under the old URL.
>
> --
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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

After I posted the previous reply, I saw that there have been other users 
affected by this, so I have now also made the updated installer available under 
the old URL.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

> Could this be bumped to a version update to like 3.10.1 or just replace the 
> old package with this updated one?

I'm sorry that this caused problems for you. We rarely update the artifacts for 
a release but, in this case, 3.10.1 was not scheduled for release until the 
beginning of December (the normal 2-month release cycle) and there have been no 
problems identified so far with 3.10.0 that warrant expediting 3.10.1, 
something that would affect all platforms and downstream users and suppliers. 
On the other hand, this issue was a critical one but only for IDLE and tkinter 
users of the python.org macOS installer who have upgraded to macOS 12 Monterey, 
a very much smaller group and there was no easy workaround for those users. 
Simply replacing the installer without changing the URL file name, a so-called 
stealth update, is, in general, a very bad practice; it leads to even more 
confusion and we also want to make sure that the obsoleted installer is no 
longer being downloaded. As far as I know, we have never made any guarantees 
about the format of the URL of our download files; and, in fact, the fil
 e name format for the default python.org macOS installers *has* changed over 
the years as we have introduced new installer variants, stopped producing old 
ones, and changed the default variant, something that is planned to happen 
again in the upcoming 3.9.8 release. So the only reliable way to automatically 
find file names is from one of the python.org web pages, like for the release 
or for the platform (i.e. https://www.python.org/downloads/macos/). It would be 
better to fully support a REST API to provide access to release file data. 
There is an open website issue about that: 
https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/1352

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Zack McCauley]

Zack McCauley  added the comment:

Could this be bumped to a version update to like 3.10.1 or just replace the old 
package with this updated one? The package name and format now break 
automations that relied on matching version names in the url. This pattern has 
worked since 2.7 releases. For example: 

https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.10.0/python-3.10.0-macos11.pkg no longer 
works

https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.9.7/python-3.9.7-macos11.pkg works

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

OK, thanks to Marc's quick response, it looks like we have conquered the 
elusive zombie dialog window. So let's try again. Note that the download file 
name has changed to avoid any confusion:

As of 2021-11-03, the macOS installer file on python.org for the 3.10.0 release 
has been updated to include an updated Tk library that includes this fix. All 
other files installed by the installer are the same as in the original 3.10.0 
installer, other than the Tk libraries and the installer ReadMe file. This 
updated installer pkg, at 
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.10.0/python-3.10.0post2-macos11.pkg, is now 
the default download for macOS from python.org and appears on the 3.10.0 
release page (https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3100/). If you 
have already installed the original 3.10.0 universal2 installer pkg from 
python.org and are encountering this problem with file dialog windows on macOS 
12 Monterey, you can download and run the updated installer pkg to obtain the 
updated Tk libraries.

The updated Tk will also be included in the macOS installers provided with the 
next Python releases: 3.9.8 (expected to be released this week) and 3.10.1 
(planned for 2021-12-06), as well as the 3.11.0a2 development preview.

--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> pending

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:


New changeset d53d9e7f4f1656a13b030b17baca743455e511fd by Ned Deily in branch 
'3.9':
bpo-44828: Avoid leaving a zombie Save panel. (GH-29371)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/d53d9e7f4f1656a13b030b17baca743455e511fd


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Fahim Faisal]

Change by Fahim Faisal :


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:


New changeset 6681a77c52df41636feb213d63ba27a759c7e5f4 by Ned Deily in branch 
'3.10':
bpo-44828: Avoid leaving a zombie Save panel. (GH-29369)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/6681a77c52df41636feb213d63ba27a759c7e5f4


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

A (hypothetical) explanation: I think that each NSWindow maintains a queue of 
attached sheets.  Failing to call the [parent endSheet] method left the file 
dialogue NSPanel in the queue, although it had been ordered offscreen and so 
was not visible. Opening the NSAlert added it to the top of the queue.  Closing 
the alert caused it to be removed from the queue. But, since the queue was not 
empty, the window manager was supposed to orderFront the next sheet in the 
queue. That sheet was the file dialog, which had not been destroyed since 
adding it to the queue had incremented its reference count, and failing to 
remove it had not decremented its reference count.  But the separate process 
that handles events for the file dialog had exited long ago.  So that made the 
newly re-opened file dialog NSPanel into a zombie.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:


New changeset 4a8b4051734fd2ce46e15e6369811132ac3a5697 by Ned Deily in branch 
'main':
bpo-44828: macOS installer: avoid leaving a zombie Save panel in Tk 8.6.12rc1 
(GH-29367)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/4a8b4051734fd2ce46e15e6369811132ac3a5697


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
pull_requests: +27630
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29367

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


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pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29372

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
pull_requests: +27628
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29371

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
pull_requests: +27627
stage: needs patch -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29369

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

OK.  Shift-Command-S works.  I will attach the fossil diff which
should have enough context to indicate where to add the one new line.
Then I will merge this change into the 8.6.12 release candidate

--
Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file50420/endsheet.patch

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

> When you press Command-S on a non-new edit window you do see the flash
of the Save menu, so it would appear that a dialog was meant to appear,
and there is no indication of why it did not.

Yes, that is long-standing behavior of IDLE on macOS; I just verified that the 
Save menu flash also happens with the legacy 8.6.8 Tk. I have never noticed it 
as a problem before and I'm not aware of any user reports of it so I think we 
can live with that :)

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Yes that is what I meant.  So I guess everything may be OK now.  I did
verify that the Tk demo can repeatedly open file save dialogs.


When you press Command-S on a non-new edit window you do see the flash
of the Save menu, so it would appear that a dialog was meant to appear,
and there is no indication of why it did not.  But that is an IDLE UX
issue and in any case it sounds like Tk is not doing anything wrong.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

> Subsequent Command-S presses do not cause the file dialog to reappear.

Do you mean Command-S after modifying an IDLE edit window that has already been 
Save (or was Opened, not New)? In that case, the file dialog shouldn't appear: 
it saves to the existing file. To change the file, you'd need to do a Save As 
... (Shift-Command-S). Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

I found the cause of the zombie dialog window.  I was supposed to call
[parent endSheet] after calling [parent beginSheet].  Adding that stops
the window from reappearing.  But it does not solve the whole problem.
Subsequent Command-S presses do not cause the file dialog to reappear.
In fact, they do not even generate a call to showOpenSavePanel, which
is supposed to present the dialog, and is also the function where all
of the changes have been made.  So this would seem to be a different bug.

I see that if I open a new editor with Command-N and enter some text
then Command-S works for the new editor.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Alas, the celebration was premature. Shortly after posting msg405488 above, I 
installed the updated 3.10.0 on yet another macOS system and, on this one, I 
observed a problem: under some circumstances at least, the Save dialog window 
becomes orphaned and does not disappear until IDLE terminates. Here is one 
sequence of commands I've used:
- launch IDLE -> IDLE opens an IDLE shell window
- press CMD-N to open a new IDLE edit window
- type Python text into the window with a syntax error:
   x = $1
   print(x)
- press CMD-S to save the text into a file -> file Save window opens
- enter a file name and click on Save -> file is saved and IDLE edit window 
regains focus
- press F5 to run the script -> "Invalid syntax" popup appears
- click on OK to dismiss popup -> the popup disappears and the edit window 
regains focus. BUT sometimes (and not always) the Save window reappears behind 
the edit window and does not respond to Cancel or Save buttons, remaining 
orphaned until IDLE is exited.

This happens on both Monterey and Big Sur, I haven't tried earlier systems. So, 
while the current fix does make IDLE file dialogs usable on Monterey, it 
introduces an orphaned (though seemingly harmless) window on presumably all 
systems.

The big question is why didn't we see this during earlier testing? In my case, 
the answer is that on all the systems I tested with, the Save dialog window was 
in its default "compact" form and thus was completely hidden by the IDLE 
windows. Plus it doesn't seem to always happen if you vary the sequence of 
events slightly, not surprisingly. I only noticed the orphaned Save window now 
because on this latest system the Save window defaulted to the fully expanded 
version (with the side bar etc) and that Save window was wide enough to not be 
fully hidden behind the other IDLE windows. Sigh!

Until we can resolve this, I have reverted the changes to the website so that 
the default macOS download is again the original 3.10.0 installer.  The patched 
installer is still downloadable for testing at 
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.10.0/python-3.10.0post1-macos11.pkg.

--
resolution: fixed -> 
stage: resolved -> needs patch
status: pending -> open

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

As of 2021-11-02, the macOS installer file on python.org for the 3.10.0 release 
has been updated to include an updated Tk library that includes this fix. All 
other files installed by the installer are the same as in the original 3.10.0 
installer, other than the Tk libraries and the installer ReadMe file. This 
updated installer pkg, at 
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.10.0/python-3.10.0post1-macos11.pkg, is now 
the default download for macOS from python.org and appears on the 3.10.0 
release page (https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3100/). If you 
have already installed the original 3.10.0 universal2 installer pkg from 
python.org and are encountering this problem with file dialog windows on macOS 
12 Monterey, you can download and run the updated installer pkg to obtain the 
updated Tk libraries.

The updated Tk will also be included in the macOS installers provided with the 
next Python releases: 3.9.8 (expected to be released this week) and 3.10.1 
(planned for 2021-12-06), as well as the 3.11.0a2 development preview.

--
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stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> pending

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Thanks for the heads-up about the "10.16" issue, Marc. Sorry I missed that 
aspect when reviewing your fix as we had run into that "feature" before. I 
guess the idea was that it made it easier during the early days of Big Sur to 
build some products that were not expecting the version numbering change. In 
any case, it isn't an issue for the python.org macOS installer builds; we 
currently support two variants: universal2 which builds on 11 Big Sur (or 
later) with Tk 8.6.11 (or later); and the deprecated Intel-only variant which 
builds on 10.9 with Tk 8.6.8. After all the testing we've done, I'd prefer to 
not disturb the patches in place for the imminent release of 3.9.8 and a 
patched 3.10.0 installer; we will pick up the final versions when 8.6.12 
releases. I am planning to use 8.6.12rc1 with the also imminent 3.11.0a2 to 
give it a little exposure but the 10.16 fix is also not an issue for it.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Heads up!  A strange Apple quirk has been identified which could affect the 
file dialog behavior if the Tk library is compiled on macOS 10.XX and used on 
macOS 11 or 12.  (I am not sure if this applies here.)

The fix for the broken file dialog was to use different calls to display the 
dialog, depending on the OS version.

The quirk is that code compiled on 10.XX and run on 11 or 12 will report the 
host OS version as 10.16 (which does not exist) no matter whether the actual 
version is 11 or 12.  The simplest workaround is to replace
the condition OSVersion < 11 by the condition OSVersion < 101600.

Since tests like this occur in many places, a more robust workaround has been 
implemented in the Tk fossil repository and will appear in 8.6.12.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Sam James]

Change by Sam James :


--
nosy: +thesamesam

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Łukasz Langa]

Łukasz Langa  added the comment:


New changeset f19c1a115f782036edac306de0f3f9968c1e1fd6 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.8':
bpo-44828: Avoid tkinter file dialog failure on macOS 12 Monterey (GH-29276) 
(GH-29279)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/f19c1a115f782036edac306de0f3f9968c1e1fd6


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 8e5e74e3049875e9d834fe4408263676fe21e890 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.9':
bpo-44828: Avoid tkinter file dialog failure on macOS 12 Monterey (GH-29276)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/8e5e74e3049875e9d834fe4408263676fe21e890


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 54579087c69f95531cbe7a97401c67f104a3e52f by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.10':
bpo-44828: Avoid tkinter file dialog failure on macOS 12 Monterey (GH-29276)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/54579087c69f95531cbe7a97401c67f104a3e52f


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +27542
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29279

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
nosy: +miss-islington
nosy_count: 16.0 -> 17.0
pull_requests: +27540
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29277

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:


New changeset be8318be05e1a874215fa75b8845ede74b2c69b6 by Ned Deily in branch 
'main':
bpo-44828: Avoid tkinter file dialog failure on macOS 12 Monterey (GH-29276)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/be8318be05e1a874215fa75b8845ede74b2c69b6


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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


--
pull_requests: +27541
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29278

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

That is great news!  I will now merge the changes into the Tk core-8-6-branch 
and core-8-6-12-rc branches.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
pull_requests: +27539
stage:  -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29276

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

> Here is one more attempt, hopefully the final one.

I think we have a winner! The issues I've seen all seem to be resolved in this 
latest round. Thank you, Marc! For the record, my testing for this has been 
very rudimentary manual testing so I'm certainly not saying there aren't other 
problems that we haven't run into yet but I'm reasonably confident that, with 
this Tk fix applied, IDLE behavior with python.org Pythons should be similar on 
macOS 12 Monterey to macOS 11 Big Sur.

I'm going to merge this Tk patch into our macOS installer build scripts and 
plan to release it in 3.9.8 which is scheduled for next week. And I'm working 
with the rest of the release team on how best to provide this fix for 3.10 
since 3.10.1 is not planned for another month. I'll also try to test with the 
Tk 8.6.12 branch soon.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Hi Ned.  Here is one more attempt, hopefully the final one.  I tested with IDLE 
on 10.14 (VM), 10.15(hard), 11(hard), 12(VM).  I used Python 3.10.0.  I 
replaced libtk8.6.dylib with the Tk lib compiled from the tip of the 
macosx_filedialog branch.  I could not reproduce any of the issues that you 
reported.  (But I hope you will retry as well, since just replacing the 
tkMacOSXDialog.c file in 8.6.11 is not the same as using the soon-to-be 8.6.12 
release candidate.)

I will attach the tkMacOSXDialog.c that I used.

--
Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file50408/tkMacOSXDialog.c

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Hmmm, the 10.15 segfault seems to occur when writing the filename into the 
entry widget on the dialog.  So maybe it is actually an issue with reference 
counting an NSString.  I will have to look at that more carefully.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Thanks for doing all the testing, Ned.  I guess that the path forward is now 
clear.  I will revert to the 8.6.11 code for 10.15 and earlier and use the new 
code for 11 and later.  Of course the 8.6.11 code already has two cases, for 
10.14 and earlier and 10.15 and later.  So I will have some code cleanup to do.

The UFO, by the way, was a standalone file dialog which was first being 
rendered as a separate window and then immediately attached to the parent 
window as a sheet.  This was easier to see on a slower machine, like a VMWare 
VM which does not have graphics acceleration.

Evidently the big change for 10.15 was that the file dialog was changed so that 
it became managed by a separate process, rather than just borrowing the current 
process's event queue.  The reason, supposedly, was to make it so that an app 
running in a sandbox could still read and write the user's files.  It seems 
that Apple had a hard time making this work, and the UFO as well as the 
assertion error suggest to me that they still haven't figured it out.  So I 
thnk we can expect more trouble with the next OS.  At least we have a year 
before that adventure starts.

Needless to say, having some documentation from Apple would be much more 
pleasant than the trial and error method that we are forced to use now.  But we 
know better than to expect that.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


Added file: 
https://bugs.python.org/file50401/Python_2021-10-27-231507_pyb15.crash

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


Added file: 
https://bugs.python.org/file50400/Python_2021-10-27-231308_pyb15.crash

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Thanks for the quick response, Marc. The results of testing were mixed. The 
good news: the new version did seem to solve the Monterey problem of the "UFO" 
and the loss of keyboard focus. However, the new version causes new problems on 
other releases.

- On 10.14 and earlier systems, I observed the following new behavior in IDLE: 
on doing a Save from an Edit Window (either with CMD-S or click on the Save 
menu item), the Save file pane appears as expected but, after entering the file 
name and clicking Save on the pane, the Save file pane is not dismissed 
although the file is actually saved under the expected file name. Clicking on 
the pane's Save button again brings up a "file already exists, do you want to 
overwrite" message and after clicking OK to that, both the "overwrite" pane and 
the underlying Save pane are dismissed.

- On 10.15 only, I stumbled across this behavior (and verified it did not occur 
with the unpatched 8.6.11 nor does it seem to occur anywhere but on 10.15): in 
a new IDLE edit window, type some text, then Save to a file (CMD-S). Now alter 
the text and then use Save As (CMD-SHIFT-S) to attempt to save to another file 
name. Upon entering CMD-SHIFT-S (or clicking on the Save As... menu item), Tk 
crashes. I've attached a few crash dumps.

--
Added file: 
https://bugs.python.org/file50399/Python_2021-10-27-231033_pyb15.crash

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Hi Ned,  I think this problem is fixed now in the tip of the Tk 
macosx_filedialog branch.  I am attaching the tkMacOSXDialog.c file from that 
branch.  I think you should be able to just replace the version in 8.6.11 and 
be able to build a working version.  I have tested on macOS 10.14, 10.15, 11 
and 12.  Can you please test on your systems?

If it looks OK I will merge the changes into 8.6.12-rc so they will appear in 
the 8.6.12 release when that happens.  It should be fairly soon.

--
Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file50398/tkMacOSXDialog.c

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Marc Culler]

Marc Culler  added the comment:

Thanks, Ned, for finding my mistake which you generously called a typo.
I have fixed the inequality in the Tk fossil repository.  Incidentally, there 
is now a core-8-6-12-rc branch of Tk, also containing the fix.  So it should 
not be too long before 8.6.12 is released.

I will look at the code and check whether I see the UFO that you report.  As 
you know, all that Tk does is to open an NSOpenPanel.  Once that is open it is 
completely handled by the OS.  Tk sees no events from the modal interaction and 
does not have any way of controlling any aspect of the dialog.  So the only 
hope would be that it is possible to set some configuration option before 
opening the NSOpenPanel which would somehow cause the OS to assign focus to the 
correct widget.  I will try to investigate what options are available.

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
assignee: terry.reedy -> ned.deily

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[issue44828] tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking IDLE saves

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Marc, thanks for providing the patch for Tk. There are some issues with it, 
though, at least when used with IDLE. I built a Python 3.10.0+ universal2 
installer, like what we provide on python.org, with just the updated Tk and 
tested it on macOS 10.9, 10.13, 10.14, 10.15, 11 and 12.

First, and most important, there seems to be a typo in the fix that causes the 
dialog panel to break on macOS 10.14: 

-   if ([NSApp macOSVersion] > 101400) {
+   if ( osVersion >= 101400 && osVersion < 12) {

That ">=" should be just an ">" as before, I think. At least, making that 
change unbreaks 10.14.

Second, while the filedialog panel now works on macOS 12 (Monterey) with the 
patch, there are some side effects, at least when using CMD-S (Save) in a new 
IDLE edit window. After pressing CMD-S, some small object appears on the screen 
very briefly (too quickly for me to recognize what it is) and then the expected 
Save filedialog panel appears; however, unlike on all the other operating 
system levels tested, the keyboard focus is not on the filename text field in 
the panel. So when the user starts typing the file name, nothing happens until 
they do something, like clicking on the file name field, to manually move the 
keyboard focus to that field. I think most users would find that confusing. I 
don't know if there's any way to change that, either in Tk, tkinter, or IDLE. 
But it does seem to be a regression. The same binaries work fine on all of the 
other macOS versions I tested.

Any ideas?

(Although it's not an IDLE bug, I've added IDLE to the components list since it 
is impacted by this issue.)

--
assignee:  -> terry.reedy
components: +IDLE
nosy: +lukasz.langa, pablogsal, terry.reedy
priority: normal -> release blocker
title: Using tkinter.filedialog crashes on macOS Python 3.9.6 -> 
tkinter.filedialog linked with Tk 8.6.11 crashes on macOS 12 Monterey, breaking 
IDLE saves
versions: +Python 3.11, Python 3.9

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