[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Change by Mark Shannon :


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resolution:  -> fixed
stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:


New changeset 332e6b972567debfa9d8f3f9a4a966c7ad15eec9 by Brandt Bucher in 
branch 'main':
bpo-45256: Don't track the exact depth of each `InterpreterFrame` (GH-30372)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/332e6b972567debfa9d8f3f9a4a966c7ad15eec9


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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Brandt Bucher]

Change by Brandt Bucher :


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nosy: +brandtbucher
nosy_count: 10.0 -> 11.0
pull_requests: +28584
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/30372

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[STINNER Victor]

Change by STINNER Victor :


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nosy:  -vstinner

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[pmp-p]

Change by pmp-p :


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nosy: +pmpp

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:

https://bugs.python.org/issue45829 is the related issue for special methods

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Sam James]

Change by Sam James :


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nosy: +thesamesam

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:


New changeset 7f61d9d84843e3445f62eb00c47902f0daa30a72 by Mark Shannon in 
branch 'main':
bpo-45256: Rationalize code around Python-to-Python calls a bit. (GH-29235)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/7f61d9d84843e3445f62eb00c47902f0daa30a72


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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Pablo Galindo Salgado  added the comment:

Unfortunately, seems that https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28937 has 
broken the AMD64 FreeBSD Shared 3.x buildbot:

https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/483/builds/1003/steps/5/logs/stdio

The buildbot was green until we merged this

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Change by Mark Shannon :


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pull_requests: +27501
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29238

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Change by Mark Shannon :


--
pull_requests: +27498
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29235

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:


New changeset 70945d57e775b335eb58b734d82e68484063e835 by Mark Shannon in 
branch 'main':
bpo-45256: Avoid C calls for most Python to Python calls. (GH-28937)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/70945d57e775b335eb58b734d82e68484063e835


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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Change by Mark Shannon :


--
pull_requests: +27226
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28937

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:


New changeset 3901c081143ef29624f9c1cb49cc70a70321d139 by Pablo Galindo Salgado 
in branch 'main':
bpo-45256: Fix cleanup of stolen locals for Python-to-Python calls (GH-28905)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/3901c081143ef29624f9c1cb49cc70a70321d139


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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Change by Pablo Galindo Salgado :


--
pull_requests: +27196
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28905

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Pablo Galindo Salgado  added the comment:


New changeset 543acbce5a1e23633379a853f38dc55b12f6d931 by Pablo Galindo Salgado 
in branch 'main':
bpo-45256: Small cleanups for the code that inlines Python-to-Python calls in 
ceval.c (GH-28836)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/543acbce5a1e23633379a853f38dc55b12f6d931


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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Change by Pablo Galindo Salgado :


--
pull_requests: +27152
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/28836

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Pablo Galindo Salgado  added the comment:


New changeset b4903afd4debbbd71dc49a2c8fefa74a3b6c6832 by Pablo Galindo Salgado 
in branch 'main':
bpo-45256: Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls (GH-28488)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/b4903afd4debbbd71dc49a2c8fefa74a3b6c6832


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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Steve Dower]

Steve Dower  added the comment:

The goal is reduced stack depth, not reframing the entire call model around not 
having a C stack.

We can't even reasonably rewrite getattr() without supporting callbacks from C 
into Python, so further generalisation is very unlikely.

But if you inspect the native stack of most Python programs, you'll see that 
it's mostly taken up with calls within Python code. Compressing all of those is 
a significant advantage, akin to inlining the Python code at compile time, even 
if it doesn't see "through" native calls.

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Christian Tismer]

Christian Tismer  added the comment:

Very much appreciated approach. 
Too bad that things stop when people are writing extensions as usual. Or do you 
think we can teach them how to avoid the C stack? Anyway, good luck!

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Pablo Galindo Salgado  added the comment:

We are starting to optimize first the easy cases of CALL_FUNCTION and move 
slowly to add more and more calls into it. This approach has the advantage that 
allow us to take it in small increments.

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Christian Tismer]

Christian Tismer  added the comment:

FWIW, getting all function to avoid the C stack will most probably take a long 
time, if it happens at all. Especially functions which might call into Python 
multiple times must be re-designed heavily, turned into multiple pieces to be 
in tail position. Been there, long ago... :)

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:

PR 28488 has no NEWS entry, or What's New entry.

However, adding multiple entries will be confusing, so that's best left until 
all calls to Python functions and method don't use the C stack.

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Christian Tismer]

Christian Tismer  added the comment:

FYI., in Stackless Python I built a chain of frames by a double linked list. 
This was the replacement for the current frame/stack mix.
Debugging was still quite easy, following this frame chain.

Note that it is a rather easy step to add the capability to squirrel the whole 
current chain away and replace it by another one. Add some header to such a 
chain, and you can call it "Tasklet".

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Pablo Galindo Salgado  added the comment:

> Though I wouldn't like to lose the ability to extract the Python stack by 
> inspecting native memory alone.

Don't worry about it, I am personally making sure that keeps being possible. it 
will need some changes in the tools, but not any more that any other changes 
between minor versions of the interpreter

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Steve Dower]

Steve Dower  added the comment:

I fully support implementing the core idea of Stackless Python :)

I spent a whole EuroPython a couple of years back discussing the idea with 
(apparently) everyone except Mark.

Though I wouldn't like to lose the ability to extract the Python stack by 
inspecting native memory alone. That is very useful for debugging, particularly 
when you've only got a crash dump. So provided all the code objects are only an 
indirection or two away from a local (or better yet, parameter) value, it 
should be fine.

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nosy: +steve.dower

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Mark Shannon]

Mark Shannon  added the comment:

I've trying to do this since about 2011 :)

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[Christian Tismer]

Christian Tismer  added the comment:

Hey guys, you know that you are about to implement the core idea of Stackless 
Python, right? :-D

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nosy: +Christian.Tismer

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[issue45256] Remove the usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

[STINNER Victor]

Change by STINNER Victor :


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title: Remove the usage of the cstack in Python to Python calls -> Remove the 
usage of the C stack in Python to Python calls

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