Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Andrew Svetlov wrote: > Let's wait a bit. > > On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >> From his response to me he seems to be unaware that there is a problem... >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Andrew Svetlov >> wrote: >>> >>> I've sent email to Anatoly in Russian describing current situation. >>> CC'ed Eli Bendersky and Łukasz Langa as humans who understand Russian >>> well enough to be witness for my words. Did anything come of this? There are now a few more threads on python-ideas that are almost pure Anatoly-instigated noise :P I'm well and truly to the point of caring far more about the feelings of people who get frustrated trying to deal with his obtuseness (whether that arises deliberately or through genuine cluelessness) than I care about his feelings. He has the entire internet to play on, we don't have to allow him access to python.org controlled resources. Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
Am 25.12.2012 13:37, schrieb Nick Coghlan: > I'm well and truly to the point of caring far more about the feelings > of people who get frustrated trying to deal with his obtuseness > (whether that arises deliberately or through genuine cluelessness) > than I care about his feelings. He has the entire internet to play on, > we don't have to allow him access to python.org controlled resources. +1 He is so far beyond the point of political correctness and respectability that I'm unable to find any words for his behavior in my dictionary. His attitude hasn't improved, too. For example in bug http://bugs.python.org/issue16689 he used an offensive title and re-opened the ticket *twice* although it was closed by two different and highly respectable core devs. I hate to kick out people but I see no other way to deal with the issue anymore. :( Christian ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Andrew Svetlov > wrote: >> Let's wait a bit. >> >> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >>> From his response to me he seems to be unaware that there is a problem... >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Andrew Svetlov >>> wrote: I've sent email to Anatoly in Russian describing current situation. CC'ed Eli Bendersky and Łukasz Langa as humans who understand Russian well enough to be witness for my words. > > Did anything come of this? There are now a few more threads on > python-ideas that are almost pure Anatoly-instigated noise :P > I got reply from Anatoly. Short summary is: 1. He don't want to sign Licence Agreement by some reasons (not clean to me. Looks like his objections are not showstopper for every another contributor). 2. He don't want to work on patches due lack of free time/interest and not enough experience level. 3. He like to protect hard his opinion unless 100% sure he is wrong. and 4. He want to be helpful for Python and community Looks like points 1-3 are opposite to point 4 :) > I'm well and truly to the point of caring far more about the feelings > of people who get frustrated trying to deal with his obtuseness > (whether that arises deliberately or through genuine cluelessness) > than I care about his feelings. He has the entire internet to play on, > we don't have to allow him access to python.org controlled resources. > > Regards, > Nick. > > -- > Nick Coghlan | [email protected] | Brisbane, Australia -- Thanks, Andrew Svetlov ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Commit privs for Serhiy Storchaka?
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Trent Nelson wrote: > He's pretty active on IRC and the tracker. I haven't dealt with any > of his patches personally, but I know lots of others have. Thoughts? +1 from me. 'pretty active' is something of an understatement. :-) Mark ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Commit privs for Serhiy Storchaka?
+1. I committed a lot of Serhiy's patches. On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Trent Nelson wrote: >> He's pretty active on IRC and the tracker. I haven't dealt with any >> of his patches personally, but I know lots of others have. Thoughts? > > +1 from me. 'pretty active' is something of an understatement. :-) > > Mark > ___ > python-committers mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers -- Thanks, Andrew Svetlov ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
Le mardi 25 décembre 2012, Christian Heimes a écrit : > His attitude hasn't improved, too. For example in bug > http://bugs.python.org/issue16689 he used an offensive title and > re-opened the ticket *twice* although it was closed by two different and > highly respectable core devs. > Oh, I missed that one. I worked on the previous issue: 16656. I wrote a long message to explain him that his issue is a Windows issue, it cannot be solved and using Unicode works correctly. I closed the issue but he reopened it quickly without trying to understand. He just ignored my message. He is very annoying. Victor ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Andrew Svetlov > wrote: >> Let's wait a bit. >> >> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >>> From his response to me he seems to be unaware that there is a problem... >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Andrew Svetlov >>> wrote: I've sent email to Anatoly in Russian describing current situation. CC'ed Eli Bendersky and Łukasz Langa as humans who understand Russian well enough to be witness for my words. > > Did anything come of this? There are now a few more threads on > python-ideas that are almost pure Anatoly-instigated noise :P Back in November, I had asked if anyone had ever given him an official/explicit warning that he would be kicked out if he continued certain behavior, and it didn't seem that anyone had ever had. Out of curiosity, has that been done since then? I think it is good practice to issue a warning before kicking someone out. --Chris ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
> > Did anything come of this? There are now a few more threads on > > python-ideas that are almost pure Anatoly-instigated noise :P > > Back in November, I had asked if anyone had ever given him an > official/explicit warning that he would be kicked out if he continued > certain behavior, and it didn't seem that anyone had ever had. Out of > curiosity, has that been done since then? I think it is good practice > to issue a warning before kicking someone out. > I'd say that the email sent by Andrew Svetlov certainly counts as a warning. I also recall Guido mentioned he'll speak with Anatoly over Skype. Eli ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >> > Did anything come of this? There are now a few more threads on >> > python-ideas that are almost pure Anatoly-instigated noise :P >> >> Back in November, I had asked if anyone had ever given him an >> official/explicit warning that he would be kicked out if he continued >> certain behavior, and it didn't seem that anyone had ever had. Out of >> curiosity, has that been done since then? I think it is good practice >> to issue a warning before kicking someone out. > > > I'd say that the email sent by Andrew Svetlov certainly counts as a warning. > I also recall Guido mentioned he'll speak with Anatoly over Skype. Then I guess I'm asking if he was explicitly warned in either that e-mail or Skype conversation. You can tell someone, "people don't like your behavior" without saying "we will kick you off if you continue." One states the consequence. --Chris ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Commit privs for Serhiy Storchaka?
On 12/25/2012 11:51 AM, Andrew Svetlov wrote: On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Trent Nelson wrote: He's pretty active on IRC and the tracker. I haven't dealt with any of his patches personally, but I know lots of others have. Thoughts? +1 from me. 'pretty active' is something of an understatement. :-) I believe he was offered push privileges before and declined because of a +-0 vote and personal preferences. I can imagine any of 1) he is nervous about making a mistake (I was); 2) he does not like the mechanics of hg commit and push; 3) he loves writing patches, even of the type that many of us would find tedious. I think he should be reminded that he can have push access when he wants it, but not pushed hard to accept it ;-). > +1. I committed a lot of Serhiy's patches. You two have been extremely productive, and you end up with more than half the credit. Are you willing to continue? Terry ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
Dnia 25 gru 2012 o godz. 13:37 Nick Coghlan napisał(a): > I'm well and truly to the point of caring far more about the feelings > of people who get frustrated trying to deal with his obtuseness > (whether that arises deliberately or through genuine cluelessness) > than I care about his feelings. He has the entire internet to play on, > we don't have to allow him access to python.org controlled resources. +1 I opened this thread so I feel somewhat responsible to carry this out to finish. Give me a day or two to contemplate on how to achieve the following: 1. Communicate what happened clearly and openly to our community. 2. Communicate to Anatoly the decision to cut him off. 3. Arrange for feasible technological ways to execute the ban on python.org resources, preparing also for vengeful action (which given the history is unfortunately likely). 4. Prepare for rectifying unjust PR by the banned person, etc. I'm seriously considering writing all this as a PEP (most likely without any personal details). I hope this won't be useful in the future but it might help having this gathered as written policy, if only for transparency reasons. What do you think? I feel very bad that it has come to this but I strongly believe this is necessary to protect us as a community. ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Commit privs for Serhiy Storchaka?
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 1:10 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > You two have been extremely productive, and you end up with more than half > the credit. Are you willing to continue? Sure, will do! -- Thanks, Andrew Svetlov ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
On 12/25/2012 8:01 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: Am 25.12.2012 13:37, schrieb Nick Coghlan: I'm well and truly to the point of caring far more about the feelings of people who get frustrated trying to deal with his obtuseness (whether that arises deliberately or through genuine cluelessness) I believe it is cluelessness mixed with an idiosyncratic nacissistic obstinacy that seems to block him from learning. I no longer take anything he says personally. than I care about his feelings. He has the entire internet to play on, we don't have to allow him access to python.org controlled resources. I personally see his signal-noise ratio as about 1/2, but can understand if others put it lower (though still above 0/infinity). The issue Christian mentions below was at most 1/10. On the other hand, another recent issue was close to 1/1 and lead to a doc patch. He is so far beyond the point of political correctness and respectability that I'm unable to find any words for his behavior in my dictionary. His attitude hasn't improved, too. For example in bug http://bugs.python.org/issue16689 he used an offensive title and re-opened the ticket *twice* although it was closed by two different and highly respectable core devs. I hate to kick out people but I see no other way to deal with the issue anymore. :( The third close message said clearly 'Do not reopen again.'. If he ignores that, then I think his tracker access should be suspended for at least a month. (IE, I think that message constituted 'warning'.) Terry Jan Reedy ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
Re: [python-committers] Anatoly Techtonik's contribution
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Łukasz Langa wrote: > Dnia 25 gru 2012 o godz. 13:37 Nick Coghlan napisał(a): > >> I'm well and truly to the point of caring far more about the feelings >> of people who get frustrated trying to deal with his obtuseness >> (whether that arises deliberately or through genuine cluelessness) >> than I care about his feelings. He has the entire internet to play on, >> we don't have to allow him access to python.org controlled resources. > > +1 > > I opened this thread so I feel somewhat responsible to carry this out to > finish. Give me a day or two to contemplate on how to achieve the following: > > 1. Communicate what happened clearly and openly to our community. > > 2. Communicate to Anatoly the decision to cut him off. > > 3. Arrange for feasible technological ways to execute the ban on python.org > resources, preparing also for vengeful action (which given the history is > unfortunately likely). > > 4. Prepare for rectifying unjust PR by the banned person, etc. > > I'm seriously considering writing all this as a PEP (most likely without any > personal details). I hope this won't be useful in the future but it might > help having this gathered as written policy, if only for transparency reasons. > > What do you think? > > I feel very bad that it has come to this but I strongly believe this is > necessary to protect us as a community. I think #2 is going to be hard to safely write if you intend to send it to python-dev addressed to Anatoly (which I got from #1). The shorter the better is my tip. I'm available to review/bikeshed about this email if you intend to write it. Also, please only post this to one list, preferably -dev and not -ideas. #3 can be handled pretty swiftly since the appropriate people are all involved in this conversation. On #4, whatever you do, please don't get involved in some back-and-forth post war and don't go around Reddit trying to further justify anything. If people talk, and they will, let them. Please don't write this up in a PEP. We're getting flak from all directions for code of conduct things on the PyCon/PSF side of things, and that's along the lines of what this would be. I actually do have some ideas in that area, but that's for another list and another time. This should just be an email. ___ python-committers mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
