Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
Interesting to see discussion on supply and demand issues for Python programmers. You might be interested to learn that, after a few years of flirting with Python in various ways, the School of Computing at the University of Leeds has recently switched to teaching Python as the first and primary programming language for undergraduates on all of our degree programmes. I know we're not the only ones doing this, so perhaps the supply will rise to meet the demand in a few years! Nick -- Dr Nick Efford, School of | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computing, University of | T: +44 113 343 6809 Leeds, Leeds, LS2 9JT, UK | W: http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/nde/ --+- PGP fingerprint: 6ADF 16C2 4E2D 320B F537 8F3C 402D 1C78 A668 8492 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
2007/10/24, Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: using C++ and Java (and often C), but as far as I know there is no Stanford course (at least not within Symbolic Systems) that focuses specifically and exclusively on Python (there IS one course, In my constant try-to-push-Python-everywhere-I-go, I offered several times Python courses to educational institutions (sometimes even free). I succeeded some times, but then these courses not thrived year after year. Normally, this is because the people that is actually taking the decision of which language to teach in the courses do not know Python, so is easier to them to keep teaching C. And this happens even if it's not the better to the students, and even witht the students asking for the change. But this is a problem of educative system here in Argentina, not of Python itself (it surely get affected, though). Regards, -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python tickets summary
2007/10/24, Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Note that these items are *all* open. I think the page title should reflect this. Possible changing it from Python tickets to Python Open Tickets Good point! It's fixed now. Thank you! -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
Interesting to see discussion on supply and demand issues for Python programmers. You might be interested to learn that, after a few years of flirting with Python in various ways, the School of Computing at the University of Leeds has recently switched to teaching Python as the first and primary programming language for undergraduates on all of our degree programmes. I know we're not the only ones doing this, so perhaps the supply will rise to meet the demand in a few years! I was a researcher in the School of Computing at Leeds Uni about 4 years ago. Good to see them pushing Python! I keep my eyes open for Python Developer roles in the UK (particularly the North), since I would far prefer to develop in Python than Java. However, in the UK Python Jobs seem to be few and far between, and most of the ones that there are are either low paid sys admin type roles, or are based in London. Cheers, -- Anthony Roy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
Just to chime in from the other side of the coin. I'm actively trying to hire qualified scientific programmers with strong Python experience. Unfortunately, I've had little success finding candidates with actual Python knowledge, resorting mainly to hiring those who've seen it and can readily learn it on the job. So while it is encouraging that Python is being used as an introductory language, that trend has yet to trickle up to general availability of more advanced practitioners. (The other reason I am having trouble recruiting Pythonistas is that my field -- statistical genetics -- tends to be saturated with Perl folk. Retraining them is a blast...) ~Kevin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
I noticed at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing that several major universities in the US are starting to offer intro (CS1) courses based on Python, among them: Georgia Tech CMU Bryn Mawr Some of them are using: Introduction-Computing-Programming-Multimedia-Approach So, it's starting to get out there... -- cordially, Anna -- Walking through the water. Trying to get across. Just like everybody else. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
On Oct 25, 2007 7:59 AM, Anna Ravenscroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing that several major universities in the US are starting to offer intro (CS1) courses based on Python, among them: Georgia Tech CMU Bryn Mawr Some of them are using: Introduction to Computing and Programming in Python, A Multimedia Approach (Paperback) by Mark Guzdial (Author) So, it's starting to get out there... -- cordially, Anna -- Walking through the water. Trying to get across. Just like everybody else. -- cordially, Anna -- Walking through the water. Trying to get across. Just like everybody else. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python developers are in demand
On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 07:59:58AM -0700, Anna Ravenscroft wrote: - I noticed at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing that - several major universities in the US are starting to offer intro (CS1) - courses based on Python, among them: - Georgia Tech - CMU - Bryn Mawr It's been adopted at Michigan State U. this past year, and I'll be teaching a Web dev followup course *next* year. Python is also being used for bioinformatics at Caltech (not just me) and at Michigan State (with no connection to the intro course). The SciPy conferences have been eye opening as well: adoption here, there, and everywhere. Good to finally see this happening ;) --titus ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python tickets summary
Facundo Batista wrote: 2007/10/24, Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Note that these items are *all* open. I think the page title should reflect this. Possible changing it from Python tickets to Python Open Tickets Good point! It's fixed now. Thank you! Clicking on one of the filter links changes the title back. (No Keyword, Patch, P3K) I think the keyword and keywords interface can be improved. Do you have any plans in that direction? How do you get the data the page is built from? Cheers, Ron ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Deadlock by a second import in a thread
2007/10/19, Adam Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Whether this is a minor problem due to poor style or a major problem due to a language defect is a matter of perspective. I'm working on redesigning Python's threading support, expecting it to be used a great deal more, which'd push it into the major problem category. For now I'd leave it open. It's a matter of perspective, yes. But I'll close this bug, because he's hitting the problem through a weird way, doing something that he shouldn't. The real problem here, if any, is that you can not make a second import in another thread. Feel free to open a bug for this, but addressing this specifically. I'd prefer a PEP, though, ;) Regards, -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Deadlock by a second import in a thread
2007/10/20, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: bb.py is broken - importing a module should never spawn a new thread as a side effect (precisely because it will deadlock if the spawned thread tries to do an import, which can happen in a myriad of ways). Exactly, :(. I changed timeobject.c to import _strptime once at init time. But the problem still happened, because the function strptime needs to parse the format, and this involves a regex sub() call, which finish in a pattern_subx() call in _srec.c, which needs to call to _subx() in the re module through the call() function, which finally issues another import, creating the deadlock again. In short: you can not avoid a second import unless you rewrite *a lot* of internal code. BTW, I'll leave the optimization of importing strptime one time, there's no reason to try to import it everytime strptime() is called. Regards, -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Deadlock by a second import in a thread
Facundo Batista wrote: It's a matter of perspective, yes. But I'll close this bug, because he's hitting the problem through a weird way, doing something that he shouldn't. The real problem here, if any, is that you can not make a second import in another thread. Feel free to open a bug for this, but addressing this specifically. I had a look into the code. I think it's possible to get rid of most imports by caching the import in a static variable. For warnings, time and resource it's even possible to import the module in module initializer but not for strptime. It depends on a Python module that imports datetime and time. I could look into the matter and provide a patch for the trunk. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Deadlock by a second import in a thread
2007/10/25, Christian Heimes [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I could look into the matter and provide a patch for the trunk. Feel free to do it. But note, that some imports are inside the call() function, this could have more implications that you see (at least I saw) at first glance. Regards, -- .Facundo Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/ PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Deadlock by a second import in a thread
2007/10/25, Facundo Batista [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
BTW, I'll leave the optimization of importing strptime one time,
there's no reason to try to import it everytime strptime() is called.
No, I'm not. In consideration to the possible warning raised by Brett,
I won't commit the change (it does not fix anything, just a marginal
optimization, so there's no enough reason to bring a possible issue).
For the record, I'm attaching the would-be patch.
Thank you all!
Regards,
--
.Facundo
Blog: http://www.taniquetil.com.ar/plog/
PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/
Index: Modules/timemodule.c
===
--- Modules/timemodule.c (revisión: 58658)
+++ Modules/timemodule.c (copia de trabajo)
@@ -98,6 +98,9 @@
/* For Y2K check */
static PyObject *moddict;
+/* This will be initializied at module init time */
+static PyObject *strptime_module;
+
/* Exposed in timefuncs.h. */
time_t
_PyTime_DoubleToTimet(double x)
@@ -514,13 +517,11 @@
static PyObject *
time_strptime(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
-PyObject *strptime_module = PyImport_ImportModule(_strptime);
PyObject *strptime_result;
if (!strptime_module)
return NULL;
strptime_result = PyObject_CallMethod(strptime_module, strptime, O, args);
-Py_DECREF(strptime_module);
return strptime_result;
}
@@ -848,6 +849,8 @@
Py_INCREF(StructTimeType);
PyModule_AddObject(m, struct_time, (PyObject*) StructTimeType);
initialized = 1;
+
+strptime_module = PyImport_ImportModule(_strptime);
}
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Re: [Python-Dev] Does Python need a file locking module (slightly higher level)?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Oct 22, 2007, at 11:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not clear that any of these implementations is going to be perfect. Maybe none ever will be. I would agree with this. You write a program and know you need to implement some kind of resource locking, so you start looking for some OTS solution. But then you realize that your application needs somewhat different semantics or needs to work in platforms or environments that the OTS code doesn't handle. Just a few days ago, I was looking at some locking code that needed to work across multiple invocations of a script on multiple machines, and the only thing they shared was a PostgreSQL connection, so we ended up wanting to use its advisory locks. In his reply Jean-Paul made this comment: It might be nice to have something like that in the standard library, but it's very simple once you know what to do. I'm not so sure about the very simple part, especially if you aren't familiar with all the ins and outs of the different platforms. I'd totally agree with this. Locking seems simple, but it's got some really tricky aspects that need to be coded just right or you'll be in a world of hurt. Mailman's LockFile.py (which you're right is *nix only) is stable now, but has had some really subtle bugs in the past. The fact that the first three bits of code I was referred to were implemented by three significant Python tools/platforms and that all are different in some significant ways suggests that there is some both an underlying need for a file locking mechanism but with a lack of consensus about the best way to implement the mother-of-all-file-locking schemes for Python. Maybe the best place for this is in the distribution. PEP? I don't think any one solution will work for everybody. I'm not even sure we can define a common API a la the DBAPI, but if something were to make it into the standard distribution, that's the direction I'd go in. Then we can provide various implementations that support the LockingAPI under various environments, constraints, and platforms. If we wanted to distribute them in the stdlib, we could put them all in a package and let the user decide which features they need. I'm still planning on de-Mailman-ifying LockFile.py sometime soon. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRyFh4XEjvBPtnXfVAQIAgwQAk0Hf8df6zVGE0sMEfDGFqw6U5/w4TN07 Wiw4Gxq5mRh7jUGoscMrs7L0mjppC/yrv0xIey0u3uQAZqGKLvK2LRBSdC6vyaGY v9ExnI+q59ffe3oL6UTAmuiouTZspYxSv88wl6ATIPpK0SveAzlwu1c2Xnmw1MaR 5m0Mp+VUR9Q= =6FrA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Does Python need a file locking module (slightly higher level)?
I don't think file locking will ever work over NFS, since it's a stateless protocol by design NFS is stateless, but the NFS locking protocol (NLM) is not. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
