Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
On 20/05/10 08:13, Yaniv Aknin wrote: Hi, I wanted to let python-dev know about a series of articles about CPython's internals I'm publishing under the collective title Guido's Python* (http://tech.blog.aknin.name/tag/guidos-python/). A resource that may be useful to you is a 2.5 focused manuscript I put together a few years ago trying to bridge the gap between the library reference and the language reference: http://svn.python.org/projects/sandbox/trunk/userref/ It's obviously a little dated in some areas and doesn't delve as deeply into the source code as you apparently plan to, but hopefully it may prove useful as a resource (I still have vague intentions of exporting that document to ReST markup and updating it to current Python, but that doesn't look like actually happening any time soon) Cheers, Nick. P.S. For the record, the relevant URL is now http://tech.blog.aknin.name/tag/pythons-innards/ -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia --- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
On 05/21/10 15:18, Yaniv Aknin wrote: I would if I were qualified, but I an mot. One way to get people to help with details is to publish mistakes. This happens all the time on python-list ;-). Pre-review would be nice though. I don't mind so much the 'humiliation' of published mistakes, but since I want this to be perceived as reference grade material, I prefer pre-review. Yesterday my first mistake was found (ugh), I published an 'Errata Policy' and will stick to it from now on (see the blog itself for details of the mistake). Thankfully, I've been approached already about pre-review, we'll see how this develops (this doesn't mean other people can't also offer themselves, six eyeballs are better than four). How about a separate blog (or wiki) for alpha-quality articles? After an article is written, it is first posted to the alpha blog, and after some time and eyeballs, moved to the original blog. Of course with an open comment system, so people can easily suggest corrections. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
On 21/05/2010 13:42, Lie Ryan wrote: On 05/21/10 15:18, Yaniv Aknin wrote: I would if I were qualified, but I an mot. One way to get people to help with details is to publish mistakes. This happens all the time on python-list ;-). Pre-review would be nice though. I don't mind so much the 'humiliation' of published mistakes, but since I want this to be perceived as reference grade material, I prefer pre-review. Yesterday my first mistake was found (ugh), I published an 'Errata Policy' and will stick to it from now on (see the blog itself for details of the mistake). Thankfully, I've been approached already about pre-review, we'll see how this develops (this doesn't mean other people can't also offer themselves, six eyeballs are better than four). How about a separate blog (or wiki) for alpha-quality articles? After an article is written, it is first posted to the alpha blog, and after some time and eyeballs, moved to the original blog. Of course with an open comment system, so people can easily suggest corrections. Separate blog is confusing I think - you then duplicate your content and people are just as likely to be referred to the alpha quality version as the final version. Just publish and improve the articles based on feedback - I think your current approach with an established errata policy is well beyond what most people do or expect. When you have established the sort of coverage of the topic you are aiming for you can then take your blog articles, along with all feedback, and turn them into documentation. All the best, Michael ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
This link has all post concatenated together in reverse order of how they should be read. The tags link returns the same page. Does your blog software allow you to make a master post and update with new links as available? Ugh, either it doesn't or I couldn't find the feature (I'm using wordpress.com, if someone has advice, let me know). I can clumsily suggest scrolling from the end. Also see below about reworking this into a single multi-chapter document with coherent form. I would if I were qualified, but I an mot. One way to get people to help with details is to publish mistakes. This happens all the time on python-list ;-). Pre-review would be nice though. I don't mind so much the 'humiliation' of published mistakes, but since I want this to be perceived as reference grade material, I prefer pre-review. Yesterday my first mistake was found (ugh), I published an 'Errata Policy' and will stick to it from now on (see the blog itself for details of the mistake). Thankfully, I've been approached already about pre-review, we'll see how this develops (this doesn't mean other people can't also offer themselves, six eyeballs are better than four). People have asked for an internals-doc since I started over a decade ago. A coherent CPython3.2 Internals would be nice to have with the 3.2 release next December or so, whether or not it was made 'official'. I'm targeting py3k anyway, and while I expect a bug lull in my writing between early June and early September, I think December is a realistic date for me to have good coverage CPython 3.2's core and rework the content into a more reference-material-ish form. That said, working things into reference-material form could be significant work, so if python-dev doesn't show interest in this I think the blog posts are good enough. Other people, this is your queue to chime in and state your opinion about this appearing on python.org somewhere. Cheers! - Yaniv ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
Hi, I wanted to let python-dev know about a series of articles about CPython's internals I'm publishing under the collective title Guido's Python* ( http://tech.blog.aknin.name/tag/guidos-python/). Three articles already were published already, more are planned (mainly focused on CPython/py3k, but comparisons with other implementations may also be covered; we'll see). So far I've done an introduction/whirlwind tour of Py_Main and a two-article in-depth review of the (new-style) object system. I'm sharing this with you (and hope you care) due to three reasons, probably in escalating importance: (a) Maybe some of python-dev's readers would be interested (possibly the newer and more silent members). (b) Maybe my scales are wrong, but I was a bit surprised by the number of readers (20,000 in the past two weeks); I wouldn't want to mislead such a reader base and would be happy if a veteran here would be interested in aiding by technically proofing the material (shan't be too hard I hope, feel free to contact me directly if qualified and interested). (c) While the content is currently geared to be blog-oriented, if it's found worthy by the group I'd be delighted to formulate it into something more 'reference-material-ish' and give it back to the community. I found no centrally organized CPython-internals material other than bits and pieces (descrintro, eclectic blog posts, lectures, C-API reference, etc), and I hope maybe something like this could be featured more officially on python.org, with the relevant 'this is subject to change' disclaimers (can be a document for new contributors, for pure Python programmers who're just interested, or for whatever we decide). Questions? Comments? - Yaniv * think Tim Berners-Lee's Web or Keanu Reeves' Green Gibberish, see the first post for details ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
On 19/05/2010 23:13, Yaniv Aknin wrote: Hi, I wanted to let python-dev know about a series of articles about CPython's internals I'm publishing under the collective title Guido's Python* (http://tech.blog.aknin.name/tag/guidos-python/). Three articles already were published already, more are planned (mainly focused on CPython/py3k, but comparisons with other implementations may also be covered; we'll see). So far I've done an introduction/whirlwind tour of Py_Main and a two-article in-depth review of the (new-style) object system. Whether or not they become part of the Python documentation I have very much enjoyed and appreciated this series of blog entries. I still covet the ability to contribute to Python in C and these articles are a great introduction to the underlying Python interpreter and object system. Please continue! All the best, Michael Foord I'm sharing this with you (and hope you care) due to three reasons, probably in escalating importance: (a) Maybe some of python-dev's readers would be interested (possibly the newer and more silent members). (b) Maybe my scales are wrong, but I was a bit surprised by the number of readers (20,000 in the past two weeks); I wouldn't want to mislead such a reader base and would be happy if a veteran here would be interested in aiding by technically proofing the material (shan't be too hard I hope, feel free to contact me directly if qualified and interested). (c) While the content is currently geared to be blog-oriented, if it's found worthy by the group I'd be delighted to formulate it into something more 'reference-material-ish' and give it back to the community. I found no centrally organized CPython-internals material other than bits and pieces (descrintro, eclectic blog posts, lectures, C-API reference, etc), and I hope maybe something like this could be featured more officially on python.org http://python.org, with the relevant 'this is subject to change' disclaimers (can be a document for new contributors, for pure Python programmers who're just interested, or for whatever we decide). Questions? Comments? - Yaniv * think Tim Berners-Lee's Web or Keanu Reeves' Green Gibberish, see the first post for details ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/fuzzyman%40voidspace.org.uk -- http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/ http://www.voidspace.org.uk/blog READ CAREFULLY. By accepting and reading this email you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies (”BOGUS AGREEMENTS”) that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
2010/5/20 Yaniv Aknin ya...@aknin.name: Hi, I wanted to let python-dev know about a series of articles about CPython's internals I'm publishing under the collective title Guido's Python* (http://tech.blog.aknin.name/tag/guidos-python/). Three articles already were published already, more are planned (mainly focused on CPython/py3k, but comparisons with other implementations may also be covered; we'll see). So far I've done an introduction/whirlwind tour of Py_Main and a two-article in-depth review of the (new-style) object system. I'm sharing this with you (and hope you care) due to three reasons, probably in escalating importance: (a) Maybe some of python-dev's readers would be interested (possibly the newer and more silent members). (b) Maybe my scales are wrong, but I was a bit surprised by the number of readers (20,000 in the past two weeks); I wouldn't want to mislead such a reader base and would be happy if a veteran here would be interested in aiding by technically proofing the material (shan't be too hard I hope, feel free to contact me directly if qualified and interested). (c) While the content is currently geared to be blog-oriented, if it's found worthy by the group I'd be delighted to formulate it into something more 'reference-material-ish' and give it back to the community. I found no centrally organized CPython-internals material other than bits and pieces (descrintro, eclectic blog posts, lectures, C-API reference, etc), and I hope maybe something like this could be featured more officially on python.org, with the relevant 'this is subject to change' disclaimers (can be a document for new contributors, for pure Python programmers who're just interested, or for whatever we decide). Questions? Comments? - Yaniv * think Tim Berners-Lee's Web or Keanu Reeves' Green Gibberish, see the first post for details ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/g.rodola%40gmail.com Great! This can be *extremely* useful for new developers like me who still haven't took a look at cPython internals. Thanks for the effort. --- Giampaolo http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib http://code.google.com/p/psutil ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting [C]Python's Internals
On 5/19/2010 6:13 PM, Yaniv Aknin wrote: Hi, I wanted to let python-dev know about a series of articles about CPython's internals I'm publishing under the collective title Guido's Python* (http://tech.blog.aknin.name/tag/guidos-python/). This link has all post concatenated together in reverse order of how they should be read. The tags link returns the same page. Does your blog software allow you to make a master post and update with new links as available? Three articles already were published already, more are planned (mainly focused on CPython/py3k, but comparisons with other implementations may also be covered; we'll see). So far I've done an introduction/whirlwind tour of Py_Main and a two-article in-depth review of the (new-style) object system. I'm sharing this with you (and hope you care) due to three reasons, probably in escalating importance: (a) Maybe some of python-dev's readers would be interested (possibly the newer and more silent members). (b) Maybe my scales are wrong, but I was a bit surprised by the number of readers (20,000 in the past two weeks); I wouldn't want to mislead such a reader base and would be happy if a veteran here would be interested in aiding by technically proofing the material (shan't be too hard I hope, feel free to contact me directly if qualified and interested). I would if I were qualified, but I an mot. One way to get people to help with details is to publish mistakes. This happens all the time on python-list ;-). Pre-review would be nice though. (c) While the content is currently geared to be blog-oriented, if it's found worthy by the group I'd be delighted to formulate it into something more 'reference-material-ish' and give it back to the community. I found no centrally organized CPython-internals material other than bits and pieces (descrintro, eclectic blog posts, lectures, C-API reference, etc), and I hope maybe something like this could be featured more officially on python.org http://python.org, with the relevant 'this is subject to change' disclaimers (can be a document for new contributors, for pure Python programmers who're just interested, or for whatever we decide). People have asked for an internals-doc since I started over a decade ago. A coherent CPython3.2 Internals would be nice to have with the 3.2 release next December or so, whether or not it was made 'official'. Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
