Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Victor Stinner]

Would it be too verbose to display two frames or more by default?
Maybe depending on the action (ex: only if the warning is emitted only
once).

Victor

2015-09-20 8:44 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :
> For now the default value of the stacklevel parameter in warnings.warn() is
> 1. But in most cases stacklevel=2 is required, sometimes >2, and I don't
> know cases that need stacklevel=1. I propose to make the default value of
> stacklevel to be 2. I think that unlikely this will break existing code. But
> rather can fix existing bugs. If stacklevel=1 is required (I don't know
> cases), it can be explicitly specified.
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Nathaniel Smith]

On Sep 21, 2015 12:15 AM, "Victor Stinner"  wrote:
>
> Would it be too verbose to display two frames or more by default?
> Maybe depending on the action (ex: only if the warning is emitted only
> once).

It's not just about how it gets displayed -- the frame that it gets
"attributed" to is also used when comparing against the warnings filters to
determine what action to take. What if stacklevel=1 makes it match a filter
with action "ignore", and stacklevel=2 makes it match a filter with action
"raise"?

(This is a common example I've encountered in the context of wanting to set
up CI tests so that if *my* code uses deprecated functionality then I want
to fail the test so I notice, but if some library I'm using uses deprecated
functionality internally then that's not my problem. This breaks down when
the library makes the common error of issuing DeprecationWarnings with
stacklevel=1, because that makes python think that they are deprecating
themselves, not warning that I did something deprecated.)

-n
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Victor Stinner]

2015-09-20 8:44 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :
> I propose to make the default value of stacklevel to be 2.
> I think that unlikely this will break existing code.

Consider this simple script:
---
import warnings
warnings.warn("here")
---

Currrent output:
---
x.py:3: UserWarning: here
  warnings.warn("here")
---

=> it shows the script name (x.py), the line number and the line, as expected.

Now try stacklevel=2:
---
import warnings
warnings.warn("here", stacklevel=2)
---

New output:
---
sys:1: UserWarning: here
---

"sys:1" is not really useful :-/

I would describe this as a regression, not an enhancement.

It's hard to find a "good" default value. It's better to always
specify stacklevel :-)

Victor
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Nathaniel Smith]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:
> stacklevel=2 is correct argument for module level warnings, but as Nathaniel
> noted not all packages use it. When your run correctly written module as
> script you get the same "sys:1:". And this issue can be solved in general
> case.

Point of information: for module deprecations, stacklevel=2 is correct
in 2.7 and 3.5, but in 3.4 the correct value is stacklevel=8 (see
https://bugs.python.org/issue24305#msg249981). I'm inclined to think
that this is a bug that should be fixed in 3.4.4, but Larry disagrees
and I don't really care enough to argue about it either way :-).

-n

-- 
Nathaniel J. Smith -- http://vorpus.org
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Nick Coghlan]

On 22 Sep 2015 03:16, "Serhiy Storchaka"  wrote:
>
> On 21.09.15 12:05, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>
>> As Victor notes, though, that's not the right default for *scripts*
>> that are issuing deprecation warnings to end users - there, they
>> really are deprecating themselves. It's also not the right default for
>> pretty much any warning other than DeprecationWarning - for those,
>> you're generally wanting to say "we hit this problematic code path",
>> not report anything about your caller.
>
>
> If a warning is emitted in library function, user can't do anything with
function's code and should change his code that calls the function. In this
case the warning should point to the line where the function is used.
>
> If a warning is emitted in user's code, he is able to add explicit
stacklevel=1 if needed.
>
> stacklevel=2 is correct argument for module level warnings, but as
Nathaniel noted not all packages use it. When your run correctly written
module as script you get the same "sys:1:". And this issue can be solved in
general case.

Aye, combined with your suggestion of not going beyond the top of the stack
when issuing warnings, I've been persuaded that changing the default stack
level to 2 makes sense.

The other relevant thing I recalled is the guidance in
https://docs.python.org/3/howto/logging.html#logging-basic-tutorial, which
suggests using warnings.warn if you want the caller to change their code,
logging.warn otherwise.

Cheers,
Nick.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Serhiy Storchaka]

On 21.09.15 12:05, Nick Coghlan wrote:

As Victor notes, though, that's not the right default for *scripts*
that are issuing deprecation warnings to end users - there, they
really are deprecating themselves. It's also not the right default for
pretty much any warning other than DeprecationWarning - for those,
you're generally wanting to say "we hit this problematic code path",
not report anything about your caller.


If a warning is emitted in library function, user can't do anything with 
function's code and should change his code that calls the function. In 
this case the warning should point to the line where the function is used.


If a warning is emitted in user's code, he is able to add explicit 
stacklevel=1 if needed.


stacklevel=2 is correct argument for module level warnings, but as 
Nathaniel noted not all packages use it. When your run correctly written 
module as script you get the same "sys:1:". And this issue can be solved 
in general case.


not allecause the user wants to get a warning at the place where the 
module is imported.



Passing "stacklevel=2" for API deprecations is by no means obvious
though, so perhaps it makes sense to add a
"warnings.warn_deprecated(message)" function that's implemented as:

 def warn_deprecated(message, stacklevel=1):
 return warnings.warn(message, DeprecationWarning,
stacklevel=(2+stacklevel)).


This will not fix tons of modules that are not aware of correct stacklevel.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Brett Cannon]

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 at 10:15 Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:

> On 21.09.15 12:05, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> > As Victor notes, though, that's not the right default for *scripts*
> > that are issuing deprecation warnings to end users - there, they
> > really are deprecating themselves. It's also not the right default for
> > pretty much any warning other than DeprecationWarning - for those,
> > you're generally wanting to say "we hit this problematic code path",
> > not report anything about your caller.
>
> If a warning is emitted in library function, user can't do anything with
> function's code and should change his code that calls the function. In
> this case the warning should point to the line where the function is used.
>
> If a warning is emitted in user's code, he is able to add explicit
> stacklevel=1 if needed.
>
> stacklevel=2 is correct argument for module level warnings, but as
> Nathaniel noted not all packages use it. When your run correctly written
> module as script you get the same "sys:1:". And this issue can be solved
> in general case.
>
> not allecause the user wants to get a warning at the place where the
> module is imported.
>
> > Passing "stacklevel=2" for API deprecations is by no means obvious
> > though, so perhaps it makes sense to add a
> > "warnings.warn_deprecated(message)" function that's implemented as:
> >
> >  def warn_deprecated(message, stacklevel=1):
> >  return warnings.warn(message, DeprecationWarning,
> > stacklevel=(2+stacklevel)).
>
> This will not fix tons of modules that are not aware of correct stacklevel.
>

The long-term solution to this is to add a warnings.deprecate_module()
function which does the right thing and simply not expose the stacklevel
argument to users. We can then consider warnings.warn() more of a power
user function and make the stacklevel a keyword-only argument with no
default value (although I can already hear Raymond saying "but the Python 2
users" for that part of the idea =).
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Serhiy Storchaka]

On 21.09.15 10:18, Victor Stinner wrote:

2015-09-20 8:44 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :

I propose to make the default value of stacklevel to be 2.
I think that unlikely this will break existing code.


Consider this simple script:
---
import warnings
warnings.warn("here")
---

Currrent output:
---
x.py:3: UserWarning: here
   warnings.warn("here")
---

=> it shows the script name (x.py), the line number and the line, as expected.

Now try stacklevel=2:
---
import warnings
warnings.warn("here", stacklevel=2)
---

New output:
---
sys:1: UserWarning: here
---

"sys:1" is not really useful :-/


This is not new. The same output we get when run a module that correctly 
emits a warning at module level (with explicit stacklevel=2).


$ ./python -Wa Lib/imp.py
sys:1: PendingDeprecationWarning: the imp module is deprecated in favour 
of importlib; see the module's documentation for alternative uses


If this message looks confusing for you, we can avoid it if stop 
skipping frames further if frame.f_back is None. This will got rid of 
"sys:1:" in both cases, explicit and implicit stacklevel=2.



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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Guido van Rossum]

I think it's been conclusively shown that we should not change the default.
Instead I recommend updating the docs with an example showing when
stacklevel=2 is appropriate.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 2:05 AM, Nick Coghlan  wrote:

> On 21 September 2015 at 17:21, Nathaniel Smith  wrote:
> > On Sep 21, 2015 12:15 AM, "Victor Stinner" 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Would it be too verbose to display two frames or more by default?
> >> Maybe depending on the action (ex: only if the warning is emitted only
> >> once).
> >
> > It's not just about how it gets displayed -- the frame that it gets
> > "attributed" to is also used when comparing against the warnings filters
> to
> > determine what action to take. What if stacklevel=1 makes it match a
> filter
> > with action "ignore", and stacklevel=2 makes it match a filter with
> action
> > "raise"?
> >
> > (This is a common example I've encountered in the context of wanting to
> set
> > up CI tests so that if *my* code uses deprecated functionality then I
> want
> > to fail the test so I notice, but if some library I'm using uses
> deprecated
> > functionality internally then that's not my problem. This breaks down
> when
> > the library makes the common error of issuing DeprecationWarnings with
> > stacklevel=1, because that makes python think that they are deprecating
> > themselves, not warning that I did something deprecated.)
>
> As Victor notes, though, that's not the right default for *scripts*
> that are issuing deprecation warnings to end users - there, they
> really are deprecating themselves. It's also not the right default for
> pretty much any warning other than DeprecationWarning - for those,
> you're generally wanting to say "we hit this problematic code path",
> not report anything about your caller.
>
> Passing "stacklevel=2" for API deprecations is by no means obvious
> though, so perhaps it makes sense to add a
> "warnings.warn_deprecated(message)" function that's implemented as:
>
> def warn_deprecated(message, stacklevel=1):
> return warnings.warn(message, DeprecationWarning,
> stacklevel=(2+stacklevel)).
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Walter Dörwald]

On 21 Sep 2015, at 9:18, Victor Stinner wrote:


2015-09-20 8:44 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka :

I propose to make the default value of stacklevel to be 2.
I think that unlikely this will break existing code.


Consider this simple script:
---
import warnings
warnings.warn("here")
---

Currrent output:
---
x.py:3: UserWarning: here
warnings.warn("here")
---

=> it shows the script name (x.py), the line number and the line, as 
expected.


Now try stacklevel=2:
---
import warnings
warnings.warn("here", stacklevel=2)
---

New output:
---
sys:1: UserWarning: here
---

"sys:1" is not really useful :-/

I would describe this as a regression, not an enhancement.

It's hard to find a "good" default value. It's better to always
specify stacklevel :-)


A "dynamic" stacklevel might help. Normally when you implement a call to 
warning.warn() inside a module, you want to report the innermost 
stacklevel that is outside of your module, because that's the spot where 
the error likely is. This could be done automatically (report the first 
module that is different from the one where the call to warning.warn() 
is), or by specifying a base package name or regular expression, i.e. 
report the innermost stackframe that is not from 
"mypackage.mysubpackage").


See http://bugs.python.org/issue850482

Bye,
   Walter Dörwald
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Serhiy Storchaka]

On 21.09.15 20:00, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:

On 21.09.15 10:18, Victor Stinner wrote:

---
sys:1: UserWarning: here
---

"sys:1" is not really useful :-/


This is not new. The same output we get when run a module that correctly
emits a warning at module level (with explicit stacklevel=2).

$ ./python -Wa Lib/imp.py
sys:1: PendingDeprecationWarning: the imp module is deprecated in favour
of importlib; see the module's documentation for alternative uses

If this message looks confusing for you, we can avoid it if stop
skipping frames further if frame.f_back is None. This will got rid of
"sys:1:" in both cases, explicit and implicit stacklevel=2.


The patch is provided in http://bugs.python.org/issue25204.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Serhiy Storchaka]

On 21.09.15 20:32, Brett Cannon wrote:



On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 at 10:15 Serhiy Storchaka > wrote:

On 21.09.15 12:05, Nick Coghlan wrote:
 > Passing "stacklevel=2" for API deprecations is by no means obvious
 > though, so perhaps it makes sense to add a
 > "warnings.warn_deprecated(message)" function that's implemented as:
 >
 >  def warn_deprecated(message, stacklevel=1):
 >  return warnings.warn(message, DeprecationWarning,
 > stacklevel=(2+stacklevel)).

This will not fix tons of modules that are not aware of correct
stacklevel.


The long-term solution to this is to add a warnings.deprecate_module()
function which does the right thing and simply not expose the stacklevel
argument to users. We can then consider warnings.warn() more of a power
user function and make the stacklevel a keyword-only argument with no
default value (although I can already hear Raymond saying "but the
Python 2 users" for that part of the idea =).


warnings.deprecate_module() will do the right thing only for deprecated 
modules, but most deprecations refer to separate functions.



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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Brett Cannon]

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 at 11:29 Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:

> On 21.09.15 20:32, Brett Cannon wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 at 10:15 Serhiy Storchaka  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 21.09.15 12:05, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> >  > Passing "stacklevel=2" for API deprecations is by no means obvious
> >  > though, so perhaps it makes sense to add a
> >  > "warnings.warn_deprecated(message)" function that's implemented
> as:
> >  >
> >  >  def warn_deprecated(message, stacklevel=1):
> >  >  return warnings.warn(message, DeprecationWarning,
> >  > stacklevel=(2+stacklevel)).
> >
> > This will not fix tons of modules that are not aware of correct
> > stacklevel.
> >
> >
> > The long-term solution to this is to add a warnings.deprecate_module()
> > function which does the right thing and simply not expose the stacklevel
> > argument to users. We can then consider warnings.warn() more of a power
> > user function and make the stacklevel a keyword-only argument with no
> > default value (although I can already hear Raymond saying "but the
> > Python 2 users" for that part of the idea =).
>
> warnings.deprecate_module() will do the right thing only for deprecated
> modules, but most deprecations refer to separate functions.
>

And we can add one for functions as well. My point is that people seem to
not fully comprehend how to properly use the stacklevel argument and so I'm
suggesting we have functions for the common cases (modules, functions,
methods, classes).
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Nick Coghlan]

On 21 September 2015 at 17:21, Nathaniel Smith  wrote:
> On Sep 21, 2015 12:15 AM, "Victor Stinner"  wrote:
>>
>> Would it be too verbose to display two frames or more by default?
>> Maybe depending on the action (ex: only if the warning is emitted only
>> once).
>
> It's not just about how it gets displayed -- the frame that it gets
> "attributed" to is also used when comparing against the warnings filters to
> determine what action to take. What if stacklevel=1 makes it match a filter
> with action "ignore", and stacklevel=2 makes it match a filter with action
> "raise"?
>
> (This is a common example I've encountered in the context of wanting to set
> up CI tests so that if *my* code uses deprecated functionality then I want
> to fail the test so I notice, but if some library I'm using uses deprecated
> functionality internally then that's not my problem. This breaks down when
> the library makes the common error of issuing DeprecationWarnings with
> stacklevel=1, because that makes python think that they are deprecating
> themselves, not warning that I did something deprecated.)

As Victor notes, though, that's not the right default for *scripts*
that are issuing deprecation warnings to end users - there, they
really are deprecating themselves. It's also not the right default for
pretty much any warning other than DeprecationWarning - for those,
you're generally wanting to say "we hit this problematic code path",
not report anything about your caller.

Passing "stacklevel=2" for API deprecations is by no means obvious
though, so perhaps it makes sense to add a
"warnings.warn_deprecated(message)" function that's implemented as:

def warn_deprecated(message, stacklevel=1):
return warnings.warn(message, DeprecationWarning,
stacklevel=(2+stacklevel)).

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Nathaniel Smith]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Serhiy Storchaka  wrote:
> For now the default value of the stacklevel parameter in warnings.warn() is
> 1. But in most cases stacklevel=2 is required, sometimes >2, and I don't
> know cases that need stacklevel=1. I propose to make the default value of
> stacklevel to be 2. I think that unlikely this will break existing code. But
> rather can fix existing bugs. If stacklevel=1 is required (I don't know
> cases), it can be explicitly specified.

+1

I don't have enough fingers to count how many times I've had to
explain how stacklevel= works to maintainers of widely-used packages
-- they had no idea that this was even a thing they were getting
wrong.

OTOH I guess if there is anyone out there who's intentionally using
stacklevel=1 they might be reasonably surprised at this change. I
guess for some kinds of warnings stacklevel=2 is not obviously correct
-- the one that comes to mind is "warning: the computer on the other
end of this network connection did something weird, continuing
anyway". OTOOH in this case I'm not sure stacklevel=1 is any better
either, since the thing being warned about has nothing to do with the
current call stack at all.

-n

-- 
Nathaniel J. Smith -- http://vorpus.org
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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Gustavo Carneiro]

On 20 September 2015 at 07:55, Nathaniel Smith  wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Serhiy Storchaka 
> wrote:
> > For now the default value of the stacklevel parameter in warnings.warn()
> is
> > 1. But in most cases stacklevel=2 is required, sometimes >2, and I don't
> > know cases that need stacklevel=1. I propose to make the default value of
> > stacklevel to be 2. I think that unlikely this will break existing code.
> But
> > rather can fix existing bugs. If stacklevel=1 is required (I don't know
> > cases), it can be explicitly specified.
>
> +1
>
> I don't have enough fingers to count how many times I've had to
> explain how stacklevel= works to maintainers of widely-used packages
> -- they had no idea that this was even a thing they were getting
> wrong.
>
> OTOH I guess if there is anyone out there who's intentionally using
> stacklevel=1 they might be reasonably surprised at this change. I
> guess for some kinds of warnings stacklevel=2 is not obviously correct
> -- the one that comes to mind is "warning: the computer on the other
> end of this network connection did something weird, continuing
> anyway". OTOOH in this case I'm not sure stacklevel=1 is any better
> either, since the thing being warned about has nothing to do with the
> current call stack at all.
>

In this case you should use the logging module instead.

-- 
Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro
Gambit Research
"The universe is always one step beyond logic." -- Frank Herbert
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[Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Serhiy Storchaka]

For now the default value of the stacklevel parameter in warnings.warn() 
is 1. But in most cases stacklevel=2 is required, sometimes >2, and I 
don't know cases that need stacklevel=1. I propose to make the default 
value of stacklevel to be 2. I think that unlikely this will break 
existing code. But rather can fix existing bugs. If stacklevel=1 is 
required (I don't know cases), it can be explicitly specified.


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Re: [Python-Dev] Make stacklevel=2 by default in warnings.warn()

[Serhiy Storchaka]

субота, 19-вер-2015 23:55:44 Nathaniel Smith написано:
> OTOH I guess if there is anyone out there who's intentionally using
> stacklevel=1 they might be reasonably surprised at this change.

That is why I ask on Python-Dev instead of just open an issue.

But I doubt that there is such case.
 
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