[Python-Dev] Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked
Hi Petr and Miro, Thanks for communicating your concerns regarding Fedora and the release schedule. >> It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and at least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would need to consider a revert. I am not sure if there is some typo, but the beta freeze is the first beta. The ABI is frozen in the first release candidate, not in beta freeze. We won't get stable ABI until the first RC is released. >> Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released, I'd be great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated the main Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd like not to miss. I understand that in the (still not decided) case that the release is delayed will be quite inconvenient for Fedora and other Linux distributions. I will surely take this into account when making a decision and I will try to avoid having to fall into this, but please understand that the Release Team's responsibility is ensuring a stable release, and given the events in the In past weeks, I do not feel comfortable with the current level of testing so we may require more betas. Thanks for your understanding, Pablo Galindo Salgado On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 18:21, Petr Viktorin wrote: > On 04. 07. 22 19:03, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 04. 07. 22 18:53, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: > >> Hi Miro, > >> > >> >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta? > >> > >> Yes. > >> > >> >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence > >> neither rc) > >> versions? > >> > >> Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so). > >> > >> >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed > >> blockers? > >> > >> No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those > >> need to be fixed. If these fixes > >> are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which > >> we want to avoid. The idea is that > >> the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on > >> beta x+1. > >> > >> At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the > >> release manager, and given how many > >> release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been > >> reported past week *after* several > >> attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait. > > > > Thanks. Understood. > > > >> Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in > >> the future to allow for more betas, given > >> how unstable 3.11 is currently. > > > > Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released, > > I'd be great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated > > the main Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd > > like not to miss. > > > > https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html > > 2022-08-23 - Fedora 37 Beta Freeze > > 2022-10-04 - Fedora 37 Final Freeze > > > > It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and > > at least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would > > need to consider a revert. > > Worse than a one-time revert. With the current schedule, the projects' > testing phases overlap so Fedora can test rebuilding all its Python > software with Python's alphas/betas. If the schedule is adjusted or made > unreliable, Fedora might need to add a six-month delay and rebuild with > final releases -- and find bugs much later. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FRAKKZNIVUL46JLPMRR76H24RSYRQMP7/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DLMOU6YL6WCFHIZYHAIZHWPYTSRT7EQI/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked
On 04. 07. 22 19:03, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 04. 07. 22 18:53, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Hi Miro, >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta? Yes. >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither rc) versions? Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so). >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed blockers? No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those need to be fixed. If these fixes are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which we want to avoid. The idea is that the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on beta x+1. At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the release manager, and given how many release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been reported past week *after* several attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait. Thanks. Understood. Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in the future to allow for more betas, given how unstable 3.11 is currently. Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released, I'd be great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated the main Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd like not to miss. https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html 2022-08-23 - Fedora 37 Beta Freeze 2022-10-04 - Fedora 37 Final Freeze It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and at least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would need to consider a revert. Worse than a one-time revert. With the current schedule, the projects' testing phases overlap so Fedora can test rebuilding all its Python software with Python's alphas/betas. If the schedule is adjusted or made unreliable, Fedora might need to add a six-month delay and rebuild with final releases -- and find bugs much later. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FRAKKZNIVUL46JLPMRR76H24RSYRQMP7/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked
On 04. 07. 22 18:53, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Hi Miro, >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta? Yes. >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither rc) versions? Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so). >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed blockers? No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those need to be fixed. If these fixes are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which we want to avoid. The idea is that the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on beta x+1. At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the release manager, and given how many release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been reported past week *after* several attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait. Thanks. Understood. Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in the future to allow for more betas, given how unstable 3.11 is currently. Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released, I'd be great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated the main Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd like not to miss. https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html 2022-08-23 - Fedora 37 Beta Freeze 2022-10-04 - Fedora 37 Final Freeze It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and at least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would need to consider a revert. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EP37TDGLFXE6TKQH6YBIQWSUGKWHC32U/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked
Hi Miro, >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta? Yes. >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither rc) versions? Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so). >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed blockers? No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those need to be fixed. If these fixes are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which we want to avoid. The idea is that the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on beta x+1. At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the release manager, and given how many release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been reported past week *after* several attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait. Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in the future to allow for more betas, given how unstable 3.11 is currently. Pablo Galindo Salgado On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 15:26, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 24. 06. 22 14:25, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > A small update since the last communication from the release team > regarding the > > status of Python 3.11.0b4. > > > > Unfortunately, even if we have fixed most of the original release > blockers and > > 4 more that appear during this week, we still have a bunch of release > blockers > > to deal with. One of them has been reported today. > > > > I would like to release the next beta next week if everything looks > good, but > > there are also some items that need discussion... > > I was thinking. Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next > beta? > Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither > rc) > versions? Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed > blockers? Assuming those are not regressions that happened after 3.11.0b3 > was > released. > > -- > Miro Hrončok > -- > Phone: +420777974800 > IRC: mhroncok > > ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/X7HRFQHFRA5C7CMSVFXOODG45WNRZ5UH/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
[Python-Dev] Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked
On 24. 06. 22 14:25, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: Hi everyone, A small update since the last communication from the release team regarding the status of Python 3.11.0b4. Unfortunately, even if we have fixed most of the original release blockers and 4 more that appear during this week, we still have a bunch of release blockers to deal with. One of them has been reported today. I would like to release the next beta next week if everything looks good, but there are also some items that need discussion... I was thinking. Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta? Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither rc) versions? Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed blockers? Assuming those are not regressions that happened after 3.11.0b3 was released. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MHTM5MREGJCCJPHLZZQF6W4FWDWGAIDU/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
