Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:59 AM, anatoly techtonik techto...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if there are many people here who don't use some kind of easy_install package for package management in their Python / virtualenv installations? I propose to include at least one such package that is capable to auto-update itself in Python 2.7 C:\~env\Python27python.exe -m easy_install C:\~env\Python27\python.exe: No module named easy_install C:\~env\Python27python.exe -m pip C:\~env\Python27\python.exe: No module named pip It bugs me when I have to troubleshoot things on yet another machine that doesn't have some kind of `setuptools` installed. Or when I have to test some bug in my package on different Python version with a clean install and need some dependencies. We are working on distutils2 right now to improve the situation, and Ian has proposed to work on the possible inclusion of virtualenv in the stldib as well. I'll talk for distutils2 : The plan is to provide a distutils2 standalone version that can be installed from 2.4 to 3.x, and that will provide a basic installer/uninstaller via -m. Distutils2 is planned to be reintegrated in the stdlib in Python 3.3, and my goal is to release it when Python 2.7 final is released. The open question is: do we want to include a full installer that takes care of installing / removing dependencies as well ? I think not. Pip already provides this feature on the top of distutils (and distutils2 later I guess) and is not hard to install on the top of Python. But the auto-update story seems interesting, can you expand on this ? Tarek -- Tarek Ziadé | http://ziade.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7
Sure. Package management tool should have an ability to update itself when required regardless of Python release. For example:: python.exe -m easy_install setuptools This should be: python -m easy_install -U setuptools P.S. Wave effect. =) -- anatoly t. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:20 PM, anatoly techtonik techto...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote: Distutils2 is planned to be reintegrated in the stdlib in Python 3.3, and my goal is to release it when Python 2.7 final is released. Does that means after Python 2.7, because I meant it to be before or at least with? The goal is to provide a first version by the time 2.7 is out. The open question is: do we want to include a full installer that takes care of installing / removing dependencies as well ? If there is a risk to get nothing at all in 2.7 distribution, because it just won't be ready/accepted by that time, then I it is certainly optional. Understand that the distutils2 project is happening outside the stdlib at this time, so you will have to install it on the top of Python in any case. Last, its release cycle will be shorter until it gets back in the stdlib, that will make it easy to add features. But the auto-update story seems interesting, can you expand on this ? Sure. Package management tool should have an ability to update itself when required regardless of Python release. For example:: python.exe -m easy_install setuptools This will get you new version of `setuptools` and `easy_install` module from it automagically. You do not need to install new version of `setuptools` manually or copy files from SVN if you want to see fixes before next Python release. The stuff you would likely need to do with distutils bugs, which I personally find awkward. Package management is orthogonal to Python releases, and it is more oriented at Python users who don't like to wait or follow PEPs. That's why package management tool such as 'easy_install' has shorter development cycle, and it should faster react to user feedback. What can be one of the reasons that no package management tool is included with Python. In various README you may often see requires setuptools 0.6c9 or similar. I can't see why package management tool can not detect this dependency and propose to update itself. If it is impossible to ship the whole package management system then at least Python distribution may carry small bootstrap script for it. When user tries to execute package management tools, it warns him that these are not installed and gives a hint where to get them:: python -m easy_install bla-bla-bla Error: easy_install module is not shipped with this Python release. Please execute the following command to install the latest version. python -m easy_bootstrap Interesting, can you start a new thread on distutils-SIG for this part, so we can discuss it there ? Regards Tarek -- Tarek Ziadé | http://ziade.org ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7
anatoly techtonik wrote: If it is impossible to ship the whole package management system then at least Python distribution may carry small bootstrap script for it. When user tries to execute package management tools, it warns him that these are not installed and gives a hint where to get them:: python -m easy_install bla-bla-bla Error: easy_install module is not shipped with this Python release. Please execute the following command to install the latest version. python -m easy_bootstrap Note that this idea has come up before and is *much* more likely to get traction than including a full package management system. The nature of package management is such that tying an installation system to the release cycle of the core interpreter is unlikely to end well. A bootstrapping tool that only knows how to download a single specific package would be much easier to keep stable. Even such a scaled back idea is still far from a certainty to be accepted though, given the number of people who vehemently object to duplicating any significant part of the functionality of the system package management tools (i.e. RPM, apt et al). At this point, the packaging story is in the hands of distutils-sig and they're pressing forward with several initiatives that will permit the construction of more robust and reliable Python-specific package management systems (such as supporting listing and uninstallation of installed packages). Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia --- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:23 AM, anatoly techtonik techto...@gmail.com wrote:
Sure. Package management tool should have an ability to update itself when
required regardless of Python release. For example::
python.exe -m easy_install setuptools
This should be:
python -m easy_install -U setuptools
JFTR
More precisely, what I use for CI is
{{{
#!sh
$ easy_install -U setuptools==dev
}}}
but the `python -m` part should work as well ;o)
PS: e.g. that allows to check out code from SVN in order to use
setuptools 0.7.x `test_runner` switch like this
{{{
python -W ignore::DeprecationWarning setup.py test -r ciutils:junitrunner
}}}
;o)
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Re: [Python-Dev] At least one package management tool for 2.7
anatoly techtonik techtonik at gmail.com writes: I wonder if there are many people here who don't use some kind of easy_install package for package management in their Python / virtualenv installations? I propose to include at least one such package that is capable to auto-update itself in Python 2.7 C:\~env\Python27python.exe -m easy_install C:\~env\Python27\python.exe: No module named easy_install C:\~env\Python27python.exe -m pip C:\~env\Python27\python.exe: No module named pip It will not happen in 2.7, which is almost in beta phase. Based on previous discussions, it will most likely not happen in 3.2 either. The consensus is that setuptools, which both pip and easy_install depend on, should not be included into the core. However, Tarek's work on distutils2 (a mostly forward-compatible replacement for distutils) will include features such as dependencies, and make it much easier to create and perhaps bundle a pip-like utility. So perhaps in 3.3 you have a chance ;) Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
