Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:30 PM, C. Titus Brown c...@msu.edu wrote: I would vote for allowing student work on community infrastructure tasks. Tracker, Wiki, Web site management tools are all outdated and everybody who cares agrees that they've seen a better tools. As long as it's programming, it's allowed by Google. So let's find a good student or two, and outline a few good projects! I do worry that that kind of work is difficult to evaluate, and requires really great communication on both sides... First we need to compile a list of things to do into one big list. I see the major problem that there is no dashboard that gives an overview of available/supported community services and their status. Services that are parts of python.org and those that linked and often used, but not parts. Status of service is the amount of opened/languishing bugs/enhancements. Some services don't have trackers at all. For example, infrastructure proposals, web site patches is nowhere to track. Service on a dashboard should be accompanied by contact points info. Service should list location of primary repository and mirrors. Feature creep: - Service can be monitored for online/offline status. - Service may have maintenance scripts, which community members can see, inspect scheduled times for the next run and results of execution. - Service may publish stats for further analysis. After dashboard is ready, it would be nice to unify all Services: 1. Add OpenID/Google support 2. Add searchable Google Groups mirrors 3. Add Google search form to Mailman web interface for hosted groups 4. Register services search with Google (see attach) Then we need to find a contact point - a person who could be most helpful for each service and help other students with other specific tasks. I am not such person for neither service, but I am interested to help push progress forward. -- anatoly t. attachment: search_search_form.png___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
anatoly techtonik writes: I would vote for allowing student work on community infrastructure tasks. Tracker, Wiki, Web site management tools are all outdated and everybody who cares agrees that they've seen a better tools. I've also seen *much* worse tools in actual use. You don't have to look any farther than macports.org and GNU Savannah for examples of implementations of individual tools that are much worse, and overall usability that is clearly worse, than Python's environment. Over and over again I have seen short-term volunteers pick the best- reputed software of the day, run out of steam just getting the old data ported over to the new host software, leaving behind a disgrace. (This is what happened to MacPorts Trac, it would seem -- it took 4 years for them to get an explanation of how to search for bugs on a given port on the top page of the issue tracker, and you still have to type queries like ?PORT=python26 by hand in the browser address field![1]) In other cases, the old data is never successfully ported at all (a common way to migrate from one VCS to another). So while improving the infrastructure is clearly a good thing, it is not a good idea to have people without *long-term* commitment to maintenance *changing the tools themselves*. I would recommend changing the tools only if *current* maintainers are either planning to step down (and so we face the problem of how to support maintenance in the future in any case), or are willing to supervise (ie, the people who will come back and fix problems in the future find the proposed improvements to be real improvements). Eg, MvL should be intimately involved in any move to use different software for the tracker. If the GSoC student(s) is (are) willing to work within the constraints of the existing software (ie, incremental improvements), then the constraints on mentors could be substantially relaxed to any of the senior folks who have recently contributed in those areas. Footnotes: [1] Actually, it may be even worse than it looks -- IIUC, macosforge has paid staff! ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 05:41:47PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: anatoly techtonik writes: I would vote for allowing student work on community infrastructure tasks. Tracker, Wiki, Web site management tools are all outdated and everybody who cares agrees that they've seen a better tools. [ munch ] I would recommend changing the tools only if *current* maintainers are either planning to step down (and so we face the problem of how to support maintenance in the future in any case), or are willing to supervise (ie, the people who will come back and fix problems in the future find the proposed improvements to be real improvements). Eg, MvL should be intimately involved in any move to use different software for the tracker. If the GSoC student(s) is (are) willing to work within the constraints of the existing software (ie, incremental improvements), then the constraints on mentors could be substantially relaxed to any of the senior folks who have recently contributed in those areas. Agreed. It'd be great to have students work on prototyping improvements, with an eye to making changes that can then be evaluated in terms of maintainability, extensibility, etc. Having them actually change the infrastructure itself seems to me like a bad idea :) --titus -- C. Titus Brown, c...@msu.edu ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
I would vote for allowing student work on community infrastructure tasks. Tracker, Wiki, Web site management tools are all outdated and everybody who cares agrees that they've seen a better tools. -- anatoly t. On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:36 AM, C. Titus Brown c...@msu.edu wrote: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. Please submit ideas for projects as soon as possible, as students will be able to start applying soon. You can add them to this page: http://wiki.python.org/moin/SummerOfCode/2010 You can subscribe to the mentors list here, http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/soc2010-mentors and the general discussion list (students included) here: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/soc2010-general thanks, --titus -- C. Titus Brown, c...@msu.edu ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/techtonik%40gmail.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:40:06AM +0300, anatoly techtonik wrote: I would vote for allowing student work on community infrastructure tasks. Tracker, Wiki, Web site management tools are all outdated and everybody who cares agrees that they've seen a better tools. As long as it's programming, it's allowed by Google. So let's find a good student or two, and outline a few good projects! I do worry that that kind of work is difficult to evaluate, and requires really great communication on both sides... --titus ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 3/19/2010 2:23 AM, Laurent Gautier wrote: On 3/19/10 3:36 AM, C. Titus Brown wrote: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. Hi, Does this mean that any other python project could potentially see itself ported to Python 3 in the course of this SoC ? The theme should include both general porting tools and specific projects, especially infrastructure projects like numeric, which are blocking the porting of other projects. It would be nice if those doing specific projects contributed their experience/knowledge to a central pool. If so, can any project owner submit a request for help, Any project owner is *always* free to ask for help (on python-list, but now here in this thread). Those who can also mentor might be more likely to get it. If I were a student, I would consider serious interest from a project owner (and a promise to distribute a port, when ready), a prerequisite. or is there going to be a list of projects that would nice to port, or will a voting system of some sort be put in place ? Like most contributors, students choose projects, within the limits of what they can get mentors for, that scratch their itches. They may or may not otherwise be swayed by requests and opinions. My views. Terry Jan Reedy Would anyone be interested in mentoring further lib3to2 work? I'm planning on applying again as a student. --Joe Amenta ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
I'm sure we can find you a mentor. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Joe Amenta ament...@msu.edu wrote: On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 3/19/2010 2:23 AM, Laurent Gautier wrote: On 3/19/10 3:36 AM, C. Titus Brown wrote: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. Hi, Does this mean that any other python project could potentially see itself ported to Python 3 in the course of this SoC ? The theme should include both general porting tools and specific projects, especially infrastructure projects like numeric, which are blocking the porting of other projects. It would be nice if those doing specific projects contributed their experience/knowledge to a central pool. If so, can any project owner submit a request for help, Any project owner is *always* free to ask for help (on python-list, but now here in this thread). Those who can also mentor might be more likely to get it. If I were a student, I would consider serious interest from a project owner (and a promise to distribute a port, when ready), a prerequisite. or is there going to be a list of projects that would nice to port, or will a voting system of some sort be put in place ? Like most contributors, students choose projects, within the limits of what they can get mentors for, that scratch their itches. They may or may not otherwise be swayed by requests and opinions. My views. Terry Jan Reedy Would anyone be interested in mentoring further lib3to2 work? I'm planning on applying again as a student. --Joe Amenta ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/arcriley%40gmail.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On 3/20/10 4:13 AM, C. Titus Brown wrote: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 12:00:48AM +0100, Martin v. L?wis wrote: Whether this is worth weeks of work or not will depend on a given student's knowledge about Python 3, and I'd suspect that the GSoC would be an opportunity for a number of applicant to actually learn the intricacies of Python 3. Developing Python 3-specific features could be used to increase the amount of work on the project, but I am uncertain of whether this is worth a full GSoC. I'd say this would definitely make a GSoC project; any non-trivial porting will be. Sounds good to me. Line up a good student and bob's your uncle. --titus I may have a student that is looking interested, and I have inserted the porting project to the Wiki table. Laurent. PS: Editing that table felt like a test in disguise ;-) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On 3/19/10 3:36 AM, C. Titus Brown wrote: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. Hi, Does this mean that any other python project could potentially see itself ported to Python 3 in the course of this SoC ? If so, can any project owner submit a request for help, or is there going to be a list of projects that would nice to port, or will a voting system of some sort be put in place ? Best, Laurent ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On 3/19/2010 2:23 AM, Laurent Gautier wrote: On 3/19/10 3:36 AM, C. Titus Brown wrote: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. Hi, Does this mean that any other python project could potentially see itself ported to Python 3 in the course of this SoC ? The theme should include both general porting tools and specific projects, especially infrastructure projects like numeric, which are blocking the porting of other projects. It would be nice if those doing specific projects contributed their experience/knowledge to a central pool. If so, can any project owner submit a request for help, Any project owner is *always* free to ask for help (on python-list, but now here in this thread). Those who can also mentor might be more likely to get it. If I were a student, I would consider serious interest from a project owner (and a promise to distribute a port, when ready), a prerequisite. or is there going to be a list of projects that would nice to port, or will a voting system of some sort be put in place ? Like most contributors, students choose projects, within the limits of what they can get mentors for, that scratch their itches. They may or may not otherwise be swayed by requests and opinions. My views. Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
Hi Laurent If your community project would like help porting to Python 3, and you feel this work is enough for a student to work full time for several weeks on, then please do add it to the GSoC ideas page on the wiki. There will be another program running for high school students which is more suitable for smaller tasks (2-3 days each), more on-par with the actual time it takes to port most Python packages. On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Laurent Gautier lgaut...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Does this mean that any other python project could potentially see itself ported to Python 3 in the course of this SoC ? If so, can any project owner submit a request for help, or is there going to be a list of projects that would nice to port, or will a voting system of some sort be put in place ? Best, Laurent ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/arcriley%40gmail.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On 3/19/10 12:57 PM, Arc Riley wrote: Hi Laurent If your community project would like help porting to Python 3, and you feel this work is enough for a student to work full time for several weeks on, then please do add it to the GSoC ideas page on the wiki. Whether this is worth weeks of work or not will depend on a given student's knowledge about Python 3, and I'd suspect that the GSoC would be an opportunity for a number of applicant to actually learn the intricacies of Python 3. Developing Python 3-specific features could be used to increase the amount of work on the project, but I am uncertain of whether this is worth a full GSoC. There will be another program running for high school students which is more suitable for smaller tasks (2-3 days each), more on-par with the actual time it takes to port most Python packages. My project is roughly 6000 lines of Python and 6000 lines of C (Mostly C-level Python API bindings). I tried porting to Python 3 in the past, and it went fast (less than a day). The hurdle is that this resulted in segfaults for a lot of string-related features (You know, the byte/string thing). Tracing issues at the C level can be time-consuming, so I am hesitating to claim that 2-3 days of an high-school student would be enough. Could several ports be bundled in a GSoC (the target projects would be grouped by theme, somehow). L. On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Laurent Gautier lgaut...@gmail.com mailto:lgaut...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Does this mean that any other python project could potentially see itself ported to Python 3 in the course of this SoC ? If so, can any project owner submit a request for help, or is there going to be a list of projects that would nice to port, or will a voting system of some sort be put in place ? Best, Laurent ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org mailto:Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/arcriley%40gmail.com ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
Whether this is worth weeks of work or not will depend on a given student's knowledge about Python 3, and I'd suspect that the GSoC would be an opportunity for a number of applicant to actually learn the intricacies of Python 3. Developing Python 3-specific features could be used to increase the amount of work on the project, but I am uncertain of whether this is worth a full GSoC. I'd say this would definitely make a GSoC project; any non-trivial porting will be. As you get experienced with porting, it can indeed go fairly quickly. However, the learning curve is not to be underestimated: the first few changes will rather be in the one change per week range. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 12:00:48AM +0100, Martin v. L?wis wrote: Whether this is worth weeks of work or not will depend on a given student's knowledge about Python 3, and I'd suspect that the GSoC would be an opportunity for a number of applicant to actually learn the intricacies of Python 3. Developing Python 3-specific features could be used to increase the amount of work on the project, but I am uncertain of whether this is worth a full GSoC. I'd say this would definitely make a GSoC project; any non-trivial porting will be. Sounds good to me. Line up a good student and bob's your uncle. --titus -- C. Titus Brown, c...@msu.edu ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
2010/3/18 C. Titus Brown c...@msu.edu: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. This is not completely to the exclusion of other, projects, though, correct? For example, I think building a 64 bit PyPy backend would be a very worthy task. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:13:42PM -0500, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2010/3/18 C. Titus Brown c...@msu.edu: Hi all, once again, the PSF has been accepted as a mentoring foundation for the Google Summer of Code! ??This year, we're going to emphasize python 3 porting, so please think of projects you'd like to see tackled. This is not completely to the exclusion of other, projects, though, correct? For example, I think building a 64 bit PyPy backend would be a very worthy task. Right -- emphasize only ;). Good projects + good students + good mentors are always welcome (and, actually, we'd like to focus on good students -- better that something get done than that something particularly relevant get chosen but NOT done by a poor student). thanks, --titus -- C. Titus Brown, c...@msu.edu ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
