Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me, I find it easier to read code which is displayed or printed with monospaced fonts. Note, however, that I've been programming for 30 years. I started with IBM punch cards, so I might be a bit biased. I normally use monospaced fonts for Python, but in my Think Pascal days I wrote most of my Pascal in Geneva. I thought it actually looked quite nice that way, especially with TP's auto-formatting. It depends a lot on the font, though -- I don't think I'd like to program in Times, for instance. -- Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--+ University of Canterbury, | Carpe post meridiem! | Christchurch, New Zealand | (I'm not a morning person.) | [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--+ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
Pete Forman wrote: Why do programming languages continue to assume use of a monospaced font? Programming *languages* don't -- I know of no (serious[1]) language that requires a monospaced font in order to work correctly. Even in Python, as long as you don't mix tabs and spaces, indentation still works since it's all at the beginning of a line. Certain *conventions* sometimes used by programmers might require it, but that's a different thing. [1] Brainf**k is an obvious exception. -- Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--+ University of Canterbury, | Carpe post meridiem! | Christchurch, New Zealand | (I'm not a morning person.) | [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--+ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pete That points towards a way forward. Why do programming languages Pete continue to assume use of a monospaced font? It was natural when Pete we used punch cards and line printers, but now? Python relies on Pete the indentation but could be flexible about other textual Pete attributes. Nothing in Python assumes anything about fonts. That's all a function of the text editor you use and your editing preferences. Me, I find it easier to read code which is displayed or printed with monospaced fonts. Note, however, that I've been programming for 30 years. I started with IBM punch cards, so I might be a bit biased. I started in '98, and I also find monospaced fonts easier to read in various circumstances (email, code, shells, etc.). But indeed, Python makes no assumption about fonts. A person could use Wingdings for all Python cares. - Josiah ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
Pete That points towards a way forward. Why do programming languages Pete continue to assume use of a monospaced font? It was natural when Pete we used punch cards and line printers, but now? Python relies on Pete the indentation but could be flexible about other textual Pete attributes. Nothing in Python assumes anything about fonts. That's all a function of the text editor you use and your editing preferences. Me, I find it easier to read code which is displayed or printed with monospaced fonts. Note, however, that I've been programming for 30 years. I started with IBM punch cards, so I might be a bit biased. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I started with IBM punch cards Definitely a character cell format. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
The term French Spacing is used for two spaces after a period ending a sentence, for those wishing to do more research. I have not found any authoritative answer. This phrase sounded to me like one of the slurs the English invented during their various wars with the Dutch and the French (e.g. Dutch courage), so I looked into it a bit. The practice of double-spacing after a period was standard even with proportional fonts before the advent of the Linotype machine, the mechanical design of which didn't accommodate it. See http://webword.com/reports/period.html. ``If the [Linotype machine] operator typed two spaces in a row, you had two wedges next to each other, and that tended to gum up the operation. Clients who insisted could be accommodated by typing an en-space followed by a justifier-space, but printers charged extra for it and ridiculed it as 'French Spacing, oo-la-la, you want it all fancy, huh? Well it'll cost ya, bub, and plenty too...' and soon it became unfashionable in the US.'' Bill ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
The term French Spacing is used for two spaces after a period ending a sentence, for those wishing to do more research. I have not found any authoritative answer. The balance has been towards two spaces when using a monospaced font. That points towards a way forward. Why do programming languages continue to assume use of a monospaced font? It was natural when we used punch cards and line printers, but now? Python relies on the indentation but could be flexible about other textual attributes. -- Pete Forman-./\.- Disclaimer: This post is originated WesternGeco -./\.- by myself and does not represent [EMAIL PROTECTED]-./\.- the opinion of Schlumberger or http://petef.port5.com -./\.- WesternGeco. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
Talin schrieb: In PEP 9 there's a requirement that PEPs must follow the emacs convention of 2 spaces after a period. (I didn't know this was an emacs convention, I thought it was a convention of people who used typewriters.) It's an Emacs convention in the sense that its auto-filling function expects that; it will not break lines after a period which is followed by a single space only. (These are the default settings, this being Emacs you can customize it.) Georg -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 23, 2007, at 10:18 PM, Talin wrote: In PEP 9 there's a requirement that PEPs must follow the emacs convention of 2 spaces after a period. (I didn't know this was an emacs convention, I thought it was a convention of people who used typewriters.) [...] So if we're not going to enforce the rule consistently (and it seems as if we're not), can we then just remove it from PEP 9? I'm not saying that we should change the rule to one space, I'm suggesting that we just drop the requirement and let people use whatever they prefer. As an emacs dinosaur, I'd prefer to keep the recommendation, but I also acknowledge that the smaller mammals nipping at my heals will eventually take over the world. I've recently had similar discussions in another community and I was actually kind of amazed to learn that auto-refilling of paragraphs itself was somewhat of an anachronism. Emacs will probably go the way of the vinyl record (though the latter is seeing a resurgence lately :). Changing must to should in PEP 9 would encourage but not enforce consistency, and I think that would be fine. - -Barry -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRqXs7nEjvBPtnXfVAQLZWAP/UGGslCnGukFXJOvXoOyQE34baFAxKEyY NmXmZnpGfnhNOgASG1zxpAzPd6PtHQUMzwk0FXwlHVHpwg9Lb+IxFGZlRAgY2Tya KspvunDYlRFGAlG13Zg+GsQZI6cOOLqjKqwPsAcNXe9NIQhTA8hJ6vYcGSbE/I3q 73INGJg5uU4= =keXE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
I'm with Barry. I still use Emacs. Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm, whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode, distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following them. Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences. One space (for example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable space. Skip ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with Barry. I still use Emacs. Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm, whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode, distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following them. Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences. One space (for example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable space. There's no need to invoke Emacs to argue for the superiority of two spaces after each sentence, according to this vi user. -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects with useful practice. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with Barry. I still use Emacs. Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm, whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode, distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following them. Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences. One space (for example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable space. How very twentieth-century :-) regards Steve -- Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden --- Asciimercial -- Get on the web: Blog, lens and tag the Internet Many services currently offer free registration --- Thank You for Reading - ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
Emacs will probably go the way of the vinyl record (though the latter is seeing a resurgence lately :). Doubt it. Even as we speak, there's probably a student planning to implement Python 3 in ELisp as a SOC project... Bill ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
Bill Janssen wrote: Someone wrote: Emacs will probably go the way of the vinyl record (though the latter is seeing a resurgence lately :). Doubt it. Even as we speak, there's probably a student planning to implement Python 3 in ELisp as a SOC project... And run it on a computer built out of valves. (You get much better sound out of your MP3s on a valve computer, you know...:-) -- Greg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?
Talin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In PEP 9 there's a requirement that PEPs must follow the emacs convention of 2 spaces after a period. (I didn't know this was an emacs convention, I thought it was a convention of people who used typewriters.) If the PEP is displayed as HTML, then one or two spaces after a period in plain text might not matter; any browser that I've bothered to check visually merges space characters unless they are intermixed/replaced with non-breaking space (nbsp;). If ReStructured Text converts to non-breaking space, then they matter. In terms of text text editing, I think that as long as one is consistant within a document, that's good enough. - Josiah ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
