Re: [Python-Dev] Terminology for PEP 343

2005-07-05 Thread Greg Ewing
Michael Hudson wrote:

> (I think Raymond has identified the problem I have with resource
> manager more clearly then I did; I certainly don't think I'd realise
> what "decimal.Context() is a resource manager" meant at first
> reading).

I'm also worried that "resource manager" is too narrow
a term, and would only fit by considerable stretching
in many cases.

I'm thinking about something like "context manager",
or at least something with "context" in it.

Greg

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Re: [Python-Dev] Terminology for PEP 343

2005-07-05 Thread Greg Ewing
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> At 11:48 PM 7/3/2005 -0400, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> with context_expression as variable:
>  # perform actions within a context
> 
> The "with" statement establishes a context in which some operations are to 
> be performed.

I like this.

> The object produced by 'context_expression' must have __enter_context__ and 
> __exit_context__ methods, which will be invoked by the "with" statement 
> when the context is entered...

And we could call this the "context protocol".

Greg



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Re: [Python-Dev] Terminology for PEP 343

2005-07-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>>"""
>>With Statements and Suite Management
> 
> 
> 
> This is nicely done :-)
> 
> Nit:  Replace "e.g." with "such as".
> 
> BTW, do you support changing __exit__ to __leave__?  I think it provides
> a small but useful gain in usability.

I was initially -0 on the idea, and I've moved to a solid -1 after 
spending more time thinking about it.

The only real pro I can see for 'leave' is that it is more common than 
'exit' in conversational English, particularly when using the past 
tense. However, I've come to see significant pros for staying with 'exit':

1. 'Exit' is more precise than 'leave'. 'exit' has just the one real 
meaning - to go out of something. It has a couple of variants on the 
theme, and can be used as both a verb and a noun, but the basic 
meaning stays the same. However, the same cannot be said for 'leave'. 
In addition to its usage as a synonym for 'exit', it can be used in 
the sense of not taking something ('leave it behind'), not doing 
something ('leave the lights on') or handing over responsibility 
('leave it to me'). When used as a noun, it refers to permission ('you 
have my leave') and absences ('annual leave').
'Exit' covers just what we mean, while 'leave' covers that and a hell 
of a lot more, leading me to favour 'exit' as the more precise term.

2. Enter/exit and arrive/leave are the natural terminology pairings in 
English. The first pair are more specific, implying the existence of 
an 'inside' and an 'outside', while the latter pair are significantly 
less fussy (e.g. consider arriving at and leaving a picnic in the 
park, versus trying to enter and exit that same picnic). It is just a 
quirk of the language that the more general term 'leave' is 
substituted for many uses of 'exit' (particularly when the past tense 
is involved). I suspect the single syllable of 'left' tends to win out 
over the three syllable verbal gymnastics of 'exited' (try saying the 
two words out loud - I found the difference to be surprising, and 
significantly more marked than the difference between 'enter' and 
'arrive').
In our case, code is written and read far more often than it is 
spoken, again leading me to favour the use of 'exit', this time as the 
more natural counterpart to 'enter'.

3. The common starting letter gives a nice visual pairing for 
enter/exit. This is not the case for enter/leave, again leading to a 
preference for the use of 'exit'.

Using 'leave' instead of 'exit' is an interesting idea, but I think 
these are good reasons to stick with the PEP 343 terminology.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   Brisbane, Australia
---
 http://boredomandlaziness.blogspot.com
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Re: [Python-Dev] Terminology for PEP 343

2005-07-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> This is much improved.  I think we're getting close. So far, I like
>  Nick's most recent version the best, but this is in the ballpark.

I like some of Phillip's suggestions, particularly the 'context' term. 
I'll put some thought into combining the two over the next couple of 
days. I spent too much time today thinking about the differences 
between exit and leave ;)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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---
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Re: [Python-Dev] Terminology for PEP 343

2005-07-05 Thread Fred L. Drake, Jr.
On Tuesday 05 July 2005 02:57, Greg Ewing wrote:
 > I'm thinking about something like "context manager",
 > or at least something with "context" in it.

Oh, I like this one.  "Context manager" / "context protocol" work well for me.


  -Fred

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[Python-Dev] getch() in msvcrt does not accept extended characters.

2005-07-05 Thread Darryl Dixon
Hi,

I'm sorry, I don't seem to have done a very good job at explaining
the situation.  I'll try again:
'getch()' is a low-level function provided on Windows to capture a
single character of input from a user, /without echoing it to the
screen/.  As far as I can tell there's no other way of doing this with
Python on Windows.  The Python interface to this function is in the C
code in msvcrtmodule.c, which has a (very thin) wrapper around the raw
OS system call.  Microsoft provide a way of accepting both normal ASCII
codes, and extended characters via this system call.  Currently, the
Python wrapper in msvcrtmodule.c only supports the semantics of getting
the bare ASCII codes, and not the extended characters.  I would strongly
suggest that it should support both.

So, I guess in answer to the questions raised below;

1) I can't do it in Python code without getch() (hence the original
email)

2) I would argue that in fact getch() is 'broken' in its current Python
implementation, as it doesn't support what the OS implies /should/ be
supported (and, indeed, if I input an extended character in response to
a 'getch()' call, all I get back currently is an empty string).

Hope this helps,
D


Fredrik wrote:
>Darryl Dixon wrote:
>
>> Microsoft support capturing extended characters via _getch, but it requires 
>> making a
>> second call to getch() if one of the 'magic' returns is encountered in the 
>> first call (0x00
>> or 0xE0).
>
>so why not do that in your python code?
>
>> The relevant chunk of code in Python that would probably need to be
>> changed to support this appears to be in msvcrtmodule.c:
>
>if you change msvcrt, you'll break all the programs that uses getch() in
>the prescribed way...
>
> 
-- 
Darryl Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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[Python-Dev] List copy and clear (was Re: Inconsistent API for sets.Set and build-in set)

2005-07-05 Thread Arthur
>* and because Guido believes beginners tend to copy too much
>  (that is one reason why copy.copy is not a builtin) and that
>  the language should encourage correct behavior.


OTOH, beginners tend to copy not enough - when for example iterating over a 
list being acting upon.

Though my real argument for list.copy() as an aid to beginners is otherwise - a 
bit more obtuse/non-linear than that - 
so much so that it doesn't get much sympahty.  

It isn't realistic to expect beginners to pick up idioms near the outset of the 
learning process.
Now, copying lists is not something the beginner will often want to do, and the 
argument that once
they want to do so, they will also be comfortable with slicing and with more 
idiomatic Python is 
not an unreasonable argument.

But I believe it misses something more fundamental. It is a belief that is 
extracted from my own
experience in tackling Python as a first language - as an adult, being able - I 
think - to introspect
a bit better as to the process than I could if I were doing so at a younger 
age, and more in the
normal course.

The downside of Guido hiding "copy" to the extent it is - by not having a 
list.copy(), by not having
copy.copy as a built-in, by even rejecting the notion of a short blurb of the 
copy module in the
tutorial - is that the confrontation with the distinction between copying and 
"=" assignment gets delayed
and confusion on the point becomes frustrating - fundamentally so.

It doens't seem to me that this is an outlandish notion by any means. It can't 
be - as I seemed
to have experienced it.

Guido called this "one of my favorite subjects" in my last go around here on 
this issue.

Well, it is indeed an opinion I hold. Not of earthshaking importance.  But I 
hold it
firmly enough, nonetheless.  My flexiblity is more on the issue as to the 
extent that Python should
design itself around the needs of beginners. If the conclusion is that 
list.copy() is a distraction
to the experienced programmer, and that the motivated beginner will get to 
where they need to get,
in any case, with or without it - I'm on board.  

If the thought is that hiding "copy", or relying on idioms for a construct as 
fundamental as the list -
is a favor to the beginner, I very much am not.

Art

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Re: [Python-Dev] getch() in msvcrt does not accept extended characters.

2005-07-05 Thread Jeff Epler
Whatever it is that you need 'getch' to do, can't you incorporate it
first in an extension module you bundle with your application or
library, rather than using the (broken?) wrapper in the msvcrt module?

Jeff


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Re: [Python-Dev] using pyhon from the MSYS shell

2005-07-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Aahz wrote:
>>I was trying to compile a python plugin (for gimp) using the MSYS
>>shell and the MINGW compiler.
> 
> 
> python-dev is the wrong place for this question

Actually, it isn't - he is really asking what the best way of
porting Python to MSYS is.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] using pyhon from the MSYS shell

2005-07-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
lode leroy wrote:
> maybe someone could extend os.path to do this in the standard distribution:
> implement an msyspath.py, which calls ntpath for each function, and does a 
> replace at the end of the evaluation.

The chances are good that nobody else will work on this - so it is
likely that it is either you who are doing this, or nobody else. Then,
when you eventually come up with a patch, somebody will tell you that
you partially erred, and that it should have been done in a different
way. Still, I think this might be the only way to come to a solution
that gets integrated with Python.

I'm personally in favour of supporting "MSYS" as a target system.
If you want to do it, I'm willing to review patches, but I'm not
willing to do them myself, as I don't use MSYS.

If you believe that MSYS is a target system in a way similar to
mingw32, and to cygwin, I believe it should get the same treatment
as mingw32 and cygwin. That means all places that currently deal
with either of these two systems should also deal with MSYS in
a similar way. What this means in actual code, I don't know.

OTOH, I already fail to follow you in the very first assumption:
why is it that you need to change os.sep on MSYS?

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Possible C API problem?

2005-07-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Gary Robinson wrote:
> #include 
> static  double gfSumChiSquare = 123.0; 
> 
> static PyObject *
> getSumChiSquare(PyObject *self, PyObject *args){
> return Py_BuildValue("d", gfSumChiSquare);
> }
> 
> static PyMethodDef SimMethods[] = {
> {"getSumChiSquare", getSumChiSquare, METH_NOARGS, "Return 
> fSumChiSquare"},
> {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}/* Sentinel */
> };
> 
> PyMODINIT_FUNC
> inittestfloat(void)
> {
> (void) Py_InitModule("testfloat", SimMethods);
> }

> Could it be that this is a python bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

You are doing something wrong. As getSumChiSquare is a METH_NOARGS
method, it shouldn't have a PyObject*args argument.

However, python-dev really isn't the place to get urgent help if
"there is intense time pressure to get the next release of our product
(http://www.goombah.com) ready". Instead, if you need help in this
case, you should hire somebody.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] getch() in msvcrt does not accept extended characters.

2005-07-05 Thread Terry Reedy

"Darryl Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I'm sorry, I don't seem to have done a very good job at explaining
> the situation.  I'll try again:

Actually, I think you did fine the first time, and the second time, and I 
see nothing new here.  You, like thousands of others (including Guido 
himself), want at least one little bit of Python to be different.

But you seem more persistent in ignoring responses and not takinge 'no' for 
an answer.  So I suggest that you reread previous responses more carefully, 
and/or take your complaint to comp.lang.python.

> 'getch()' is a low-level function provided on Windows to capture a
> single character of input from a user, /without echoing it to the
> screen/.  As far as I can tell there's no other way of doing this with
> Python on Windows.  The Python interface to this function is in the C
> code in msvcrtmodule.c, which has a (very thin) wrapper around the raw
> OS system call.

How many people have to say how many times that the thinness is 
intentional.  The module was added some years ago to make life easier for 
Windows programmers to wanted to use the calls they were familiar with in 
the way they were familiar with, even though it makes their programs 
non-portable.

>  Microsoft provide a way of accepting both normal ASCII
> codes, and extended characters via this system call.

According to you, Microsoft requires two calls.  Quoting you:

>>> Microsoft support capturing extended characters via _getch,
>>> but it requires making a second call to getch() if one of the
>>> 'magic' returns is encountered in the first call (0x00 or 0xE0).

You seem to be complaining that Python mimics Microsoft too well.

>  Currently, the
> Python wrapper in msvcrtmodule.c only supports the semantics of getting
> the bare ASCII codes, and not the extended characters.

Based on the source code and your posts, the Python sematics is the same as 
the MS semantics with 'Python char' (string of length 1) substituted for 'C 
char'.  So it seems untrue that Microsoft supports something Python does 
not and I am baffled why you keep saying so.

If making a second call from Python somehow acts differently than making a 
second call from C, then you *have* failed to demonstrate or explain 
*that*, and that seems to me like itmight be a legitimate reason to 
complain.

Terry J. Reedy



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Re: [Python-Dev] Possible C API problem?

2005-07-05 Thread Gary Robinson
> You are doing something wrong. As getSumChiSquare is a METH_NOARGS
> method, it shouldn't have a PyObject*args argument.

While I am aware enough of your general expertise to be surprised if 
you were in error in your statement below about VAR_NOARGS, your 
statement obove does seem to contradict the docs:

METH_VARARGS
 This is the typical calling convention, where the methods have the  
type PyCFunction. The function expects two  PyObject* values. The first 
one is the self object for  methods; for module functions, it has the 
value given to  Py_InitModule4() (or NULL if  Py_InitModule() was 
used). The second parameter  (often called args) is a tuple object 
representing all  arguments. This parameter is typically processed 
using PyArg_ParseTuple() or PyArg_UnpackTuple.

...

 METH_NOARGS
 Methods without parameters don't need to check whether arguments are  
given if they are listed with the METH_NOARGS flag. They  need to be of 
type PyCFunction. When used with object  methods, the first parameter 
is typically named self and will  hold a reference to the object 
instance. In all cases the second parameter will be NULL.



(http://python.fyxm.net/doc/2.3.5/api/common-structs.html#l2h-832

In other words the docs seem to explicitly state that the args will be 
supplied and what they will contain, so I'd assume that the C method 
should have them in their declaration. Moreover, METH_NOARGS needs to 
correspond to type PyCFunction, and the definition of type PyCFunction 
states that it must receive two args of PyObject*.

Are the docs wrong or am I misreading them? Or are you wrong?

Re your other comments, as mentioned in my personal email, the word 
done by folks in a couple of python forums in running tests does seem 
to confirm that there is some kind of bug involving gcc 3.3. The bus 
error appears independently of whether VAR_METHARGS or VAR_VARARGS is 
used. Also, (again as mentioned in my personal email) I do have 4 F/T 
experienced people working on this project, none of whom has the 
expertise to resolve this. Given that it looks like a real bug was 
uncovered, I think it was appropriate to post on the python forums 
about this. I only posted to python-dev because it was suggested that I 
do so by someone on the C++ sig.

Gary



-- 

Gary Robinson
CTO
Emergent Music, LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
207-942-3463
Company: http://www.goombah.com
Blog:http://www.garyrobinson.net

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Re: [Python-Dev] getch() in msvcrt does not accept extended characters.

2005-07-05 Thread Darryl Dixon
Sorry all,

It seems that the list mods have finally released a duplicate
message that I wrote last week when I wasn't subscribed to the list.
Please ignore the message below if you have read the previous copy
already.

D


On Thu, 2005-06-30 at 09:43 +1200, Darryl Dixon wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't seem to have done a very good job at explaining
> the situation.  I'll try again:
> 'getch()' is a low-level function provided on Windows to capture a
> single character of input from a user, /without echoing it to the
> screen/.  As far as I can tell there's no other way of doing this with
> Python on Windows.  The Python interface to this function is in the C
> code in msvcrtmodule.c, which has a (very thin) wrapper around the raw
> OS system call.  Microsoft provide a way of accepting both normal ASCII
> codes, and extended characters via this system call.  Currently, the
> Python wrapper in msvcrtmodule.c only supports the semantics of getting
> the bare ASCII codes, and not the extended characters.  I would strongly
> suggest that it should support both.
> 
> So, I guess in answer to the questions raised below;
> 
> 1) I can't do it in Python code without getch() (hence the original
> email)
> 
> 2) I would argue that in fact getch() is 'broken' in its current Python
> implementation, as it doesn't support what the OS implies /should/ be
> supported (and, indeed, if I input an extended character in response to
> a 'getch()' call, all I get back currently is an empty string).
> 
> Hope this helps,
> D
> 
> 
> Fredrik wrote:
> >Darryl Dixon wrote:
> >
> >> Microsoft support capturing extended characters via _getch, but it 
> >> requires making a
> >> second call to getch() if one of the 'magic' returns is encountered in the 
> >> first call (0x00
> >> or 0xE0).
> >
> >so why not do that in your python code?
> >
> >> The relevant chunk of code in Python that would probably need to be
> >> changed to support this appears to be in msvcrtmodule.c:
> >
> >if you change msvcrt, you'll break all the programs that uses getch() in
> >the prescribed way...
> >
> > 
-- 
Darryl Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: [Python-Dev] using pyhon from the MSYS shell

2005-07-05 Thread Aahz
On Tue, Jul 05, 2005, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
>>Martin removed the attribution here:
>>>
>>>I was trying to compile a python plugin (for gimp) using the MSYS
>>>shell and the MINGW compiler.
>> 
>> python-dev is the wrong place for this question
> 
> Actually, it isn't - he is really asking what the best way of
> porting Python to MSYS is.

Hrm.  I thought we told people to start with comp.lang.python for
porting questions, but I'm happy to be corrected.
-- 
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n nx prgrmmng.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Possible C API problem?

2005-07-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Gary Robinson wrote:
> Are the docs wrong or am I misreading them? Or are you wrong?

It turns out that I am wrong. The NOARGS functions are indeed called
with an additional NULL argument; it's just that many functions with
NOARGS in Python itself are declared without the additional argument.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] using pyhon from the MSYS shell

2005-07-05 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Aahz wrote:
> Hrm.  I thought we told people to start with comp.lang.python for
> porting questions, but I'm happy to be corrected.

I'm unaware of such a policy, but I may have missed the relevant
discussion. I could understand that questions of the kind "I tried
to build Python on X, and the compiler gave me the error message
Y" are for comp.lang.python - these messages are really the of the
"I need help" kind.

The specific message was more of the "I would like to change
code fragment X to Y to make it work on platform Z" kind - although
in the end, he still indicated that he appreciated help.

Oh well,

Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] List copy and clear (was Re: Inconsistent API for sets.Set and build-in set)

2005-07-05 Thread Greg Ewing
Arthur wrote:

> If the thought is that hiding "copy", or relying on idioms for a 
 > construct as fundamental as the list - is a favor to the beginner,
 > I very much am not.

I don't think anyone believes that. It's more a feeling that
Python shouldn't be cluttered up with things that are *only*
for beginners.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--+
University of Canterbury,  | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a   |
Christchurch, New Zealand  | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc.  |
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  +--+
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Re: [Python-Dev] Terminology for PEP 343

2005-07-05 Thread Greg Ewing
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:

> Oh, I like this one.  "Context manager" / "context protocol" work well for me.

And it means we get to say "decimal.context supports the context
protocol", which sounds perfectly sensible, even obvious. :-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--+
University of Canterbury,  | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a   |
Christchurch, New Zealand  | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc.  |
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  +--+
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Re: [Python-Dev] using pyhon from the MSYS shell

2005-07-05 Thread Terry Reedy

""Martin v. Löwis"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aahz wrote:
>> Hrm.  I thought we told people to start with comp.lang.python for
>> porting questions, but I'm happy to be corrected.
>
> I'm unaware of such a policy, but I may have missed the relevant
> discussion. I could understand that questions of the kind "I tried
> to build Python on X, and the compiler gave me the error message
> Y" are for comp.lang.python - these messages are really the of the
> "I need help" kind.

I had the same impression as Aahz: questions about how to use the existing 
distribution should go to c.l.p.  Besides keeping pydev clear, someone once 
claimed (as I remember) that there are many people with experience building 
Python on various systems that read c.l.p but not pydev.  (Still true? 
don't know!)

On the otherhand, once that fails and someone thinks the codebase needs 
more #ifdefs, then it does become a pydev matter.  And you saw right off 
that MSYS support might need just that.

tjr



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[Python-Dev] Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary

2005-07-05 Thread Kurt B. Kaiser
Patch / Bug Summary
___

Patches :  348 open ( +4) /  2879 closed ( +4) /  3227 total ( +8)
Bugs:  898 open ( +1) /  5103 closed ( +9) /  6001 total (+10)
RFE :  193 open ( +2) /   170 closed ( +0) /   363 total ( +2)

New / Reopened Patches
__

tarfile.py: ExFileObject's tell() is wrong after readline()  (2005-06-30)
   http://python.org/sf/1230446  opened by  Lars Gustäbel

Patch for (Doc) #1168746  (2005-06-30)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1230615  opened by  Peter van Kampen

Patch for (Doc) #1162912  (2005-07-03)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1231890  opened by  Peter van Kampen

audioop - alaw encoding/decoding added, code updated  (2005-07-01)
   http://python.org/sf/1231053  opened by  Lars Immisch

Add unicode for sys.argv, os.environ, os.system  (2005-07-02)
   http://python.org/sf/1231336  opened by  Neil Hodgson

Typo fix in compiler/transformer.py (WalkerEror)  (2005-07-02)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1231538  opened by  Adrien Di Mascio

MS Windows - module search path fix  (2005-07-04)
   http://python.org/sf/1232023  opened by  K. Thananchayan

PyOS_Readline  (2005-07-04)
   http://python.org/sf/1232343  opened by  Lisandro Dalcin

Patches Closed
__

Patch for (Doc) #1168746  (2005-06-30)
   http://python.org/sf/1230615  closed by  birkenfeld

Patch for (Doc) #1162912  (2005-07-03)
   http://python.org/sf/1231890  closed by  birkenfeld

Patch for (Doc) bug #1228904  (2005-06-29)
   http://python.org/sf/1229935  closed by  birkenfeld

Typo fix in compiler/transformer.py (WalkerEror)  (2005-07-02)
   http://python.org/sf/1231538  closed by  birkenfeld

New / Reopened Bugs
___

Build failure  (2005-06-30)
   http://python.org/sf/1230161  opened by  L.M

tokenize bug  (2005-06-30)
   http://python.org/sf/1230484  opened by  Eduardo Aguiar

sys.excepthook doesn't work in threads  (2005-06-30)
   http://python.org/sf/1230540  opened by  Jonathan Ellis

decimal module is no longer 2.3 compatible  (2005-06-30)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1230553  opened by  Mike Orr

ioctl has problem with -ive request codes  (2005-07-01)
   http://python.org/sf/1231069  opened by  Barry Alan Scott

chr() returns ? when input > 127 in OS X  (2005-07-02)
   http://python.org/sf/1231488  opened by  Craig Howard

typesseq-mutable lacks note on combined key/cmp usage  (2005-03-14)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1162912  reopened by  birkenfeld

OverflowError in time.utime() causes strange traceback  (2005-07-04)
CLOSED http://python.org/sf/1232517  opened by  Joe Peterson

Mistakes in online docs under "5.3 Pure Embedding"  (2005-07-05)
   http://python.org/sf/1232768  opened by  Matt Smart

non-admin install may fail (win xp pro)  (2005-07-05)
   http://python.org/sf/1232947  opened by  pvrijlandt

openssl-0.9.8 requires _ssl.mak change  (2005-07-05)
   http://python.org/sf/1233049  opened by  Alan Meyer

Bugs Closed
___

Two requests to one file are not done in parallel  (2005-06-25)
   http://python.org/sf/1227480  closed by  jafo

usage of type "char*" instead of "const char*"  (2005-06-27)
   http://python.org/sf/1228053  closed by  tjreedy

decimal module is no longer 2.3 compatible  (2005-06-30)
   http://python.org/sf/1230553  closed by  rhettinger

frame.f_exc_type,value,traceback  (2005-03-23)
   http://python.org/sf/1168746  closed by  birkenfeld

__getattribute__ documentation error?  (2005-05-19)
   http://python.org/sf/1204734  closed by  birkenfeld

weakref example broken  (2005-06-28)
   http://python.org/sf/1228904  closed by  birkenfeld

typesseq-mutable lacks note on combined key/cmp usage  (2005-03-14)
   http://python.org/sf/1162912  closed by  birkenfeld

typesseq-mutable lacks note on combined key/cmp usage  (2005-03-14)
   http://python.org/sf/1162912  closed by  birkenfeld

random.py/os.urandom robustness  (2005-04-06)
   http://python.org/sf/1177468  closed by  birkenfeld

OverflowError in time.utime() causes strange traceback  (2005-07-05)
   http://python.org/sf/1232517  closed by  mwh

New / Reopened RFE
__

platform.processor() could be smarter  (2005-07-01)
   http://python.org/sf/1231081  opened by  Stephan Springer

Links to tutorials and howtos from references  (2005-07-04)
   http://python.org/sf/1232073  opened by  Michael Hoffman

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[Python-Dev] Triple-quoted strings and indentation

2005-07-05 Thread Andrew Durdin
In general, I find triple-quoted strings to be very handy,
particularly for standalone scripts. However, the fact that they have
to be written in the left-hand column to avoid leading whitespace
really grates, particularly when they're nested within a block or two
-- it's a wart:

try:
options, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "cf:s")
except getopt.GetoptError:
print """Usage: dostuff 

Options:
  -c  - blah blah
  -f   - do stuff with file "filename"
  -s  - more blah"""

sys.exit(1)

This really makes the code hard to read, as the indentation is all
mixed up (visually).

I have written a patch that changes the way triple-quoted strings are
scanned so that leading whitespace is ignored in much the same way
that pep 257 handles it for docstrings. Largely this was for a
learning experience in hacking the parser, but it would be very nice
IMO if something of this sort could be implemented in a future version
of Python. To this end, I have sketched out a draft PEP (which was
itself a good learning exercise in thinking out the issues of such a
change). Should I post it here for discussion?

Andrew
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Re: [Python-Dev] Triple-quoted strings and indentation

2005-07-05 Thread Steven Bethard
On 7/5/05, Andrew Durdin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> print """Usage: dostuff 
> 
> Options:
>   -c  - blah blah
>   -f   - do stuff with file "filename"
>   -s  - more blah"""

Isn't the standard idiom for this already:

import textwrap
...
print textwrap.dedent("""\
Usage: dostuff 

Options:
 -c  - blah blah
 -f   - do stuff with file "filename"
 -s  - more blah""")

STeVe
-- 
You can wordify anything if you just verb it.
--- Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy
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Re: [Python-Dev] Triple-quoted strings and indentation

2005-07-05 Thread Terry Reedy

"Andrew Durdin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In general, I find triple-quoted strings to be very handy,
> particularly for standalone scripts. However, the fact that they have
> to be written in the left-hand column to avoid leading whitespace
> really grates, particularly when they're nested within a block or two
> -- it's a wart:
>
>try:
>options, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "cf:s")
>except getopt.GetoptError:
>print """Usage: dostuff 
>
> Options:
>  -c  - blah blah
>  -f   - do stuff with file "filename"
>  -s  - more blah"""
>
>sys.exit(1)
>
> This really makes the code hard to read, as the indentation is all
> mixed up (visually).
>
> I have written a patch that changes the way triple-quoted strings are
> scanned so that leading whitespace is ignored in much the same way
> that pep 257 handles it for docstrings. Largely this was for a
> learning experience in hacking the parser, but it would be very nice
> IMO if something of this sort could be implemented in a future version
> of Python. To this end, I have sketched out a draft PEP (which was
> itself a good learning exercise in thinking out the issues of such a
> change). Should I post it here for discussion?
>
> Andrew
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Re: [Python-Dev] Triple-quoted strings and indentation

2005-07-05 Thread Terry Reedy

"Andrew Durdin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In general, I find triple-quoted strings to be very handy,
> particularly for standalone scripts. However, the fact that they have
> to be written in the left-hand column to avoid leading whitespace
> really grates, particularly when they're nested within a block or two

At present I think I would do
usage_text = '''\
text how I want it
'''
perhaps in global context or at top of function and then

>try:
>options, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "cf:s")
>except getopt.GetoptError:
 print usage_text

I long ago found it advantageous to pull message texts from scattered 
locations into a central place where easier to find and edit.  I also make 
program logic easier to read without a long block in the way.  YMMV
Doc strings, first meant for the code reader, need to be where they are.
They also come before the code itself, so don't interfere.

> -- it's a wart:

That is rather extreme, and is definitely an opinion.

> I have written a patch that changes the way triple-quoted strings are
> scanned so that leading whitespace is ignored.

And what if I want the leading whitespace left just the way I carefully put 
it?  And what of existing code dependent on literals being as literal as 
they currently are?  I think the soonest this could be considered is Python 
3.0.

Terry J. Reedy




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