Re: [Python-Dev] Add a -z interpreter flag to execute a zip file

2007-07-24 Thread David Gowers
On 7/24/07, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/12/07, Daniel Stutzbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 7/11/07, Andy C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > The good thing about this is that it's extremely simple -- basically
> > > 20 lines of C code to add a -z flag that calls a 3-line Python
> > > function in the runpy module.
> >
> > Instead of requiring a -z flag, why not have the interpreter peak at
> > the file to see if it starts with one of the ZIP magic numbers?
> >
> > That way it Just Works.
>
> I guess you wouldn't recognize a zip file if it hits you in the face.
> Literally. :-)
>
> Zip files don't start with a magic number.

ZIP files *do* start with a magic number; either PK\03\04 (non-empty
archive) or PK\05\06 (empty archive). This is rather easy to notice,
as I did in the bad old days of DOS, and i recently doubly verified it
('zip'+'khexedit', and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_%28file_format%29; I tried the
infozip website too, but it seems to be down.)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread Barry Warsaw
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Jul 23, 2007, at 10:18 PM, Talin wrote:

> In PEP 9 there's a requirement that PEPs must follow the "emacs
> convention" of 2 spaces after a period. (I didn't know this was an  
> emacs
> convention, I thought it was a convention of people who used  
> typewriters.)
>
[...]
> So if we're not going to enforce the rule consistently (and it  
> seems as
> if we're not), can we then just remove it from PEP 9? I'm not saying
> that we should change the rule to one space, I'm suggesting that we  
> just
> drop the requirement and let people use whatever they prefer.

As an emacs dinosaur, I'd prefer to keep the recommendation, but I  
also acknowledge that the smaller mammals nipping at my heals will  
eventually take over the world.  I've recently had similar  
discussions in another community and I was actually kind of amazed to  
learn that auto-refilling of paragraphs itself was somewhat of an  
anachronism.

Emacs will probably go the way of the vinyl record (though the latter  
is seeing a resurgence lately :).  Changing "must" to "should" in PEP  
9 would encourage but not enforce consistency, and I think that would  
be fine.

- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread skip
I'm with Barry.  I still use Emacs.  Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm,
whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode,
distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following
them.  Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences.  One space (for
example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable
space.

Skip
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Re: [Python-Dev] -z, -i and -m, maybe bug in runpy?

2007-07-24 Thread Nick Coghlan
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
> While trying to get my -z replacement patch to work, I stumbled 
> across a bug in the -m implementation (and in runpy).  It seems that 
> when you run the code of a -m module, it is *not* run in the __main__ 
> module namespace!
> 
> So even though __name__=='__main__', globals() is not 
> sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__.  This seems wrong to me.  Does 
> anybody know why runpy doesn't actually run the code in the target module?

After implementing the runpy explicit relative import tests over the 
last couple of days, it actually occurred to me earlier today that I 
didn't have a test for this scenario. When I thought of the test, I was 
also pretty sure it would fail - it appears I was right :)

> One consequence of this is that the -i option is much less useful 
> when you use -m, because the script's globals have disappeared before 
> you get to the interpreter prompt.
> 
> At this point, I've successfully gotten a -z replacement patch, 
> except that it inherits this apparent bug from -m, which for a while 
> led me to believe my patch was broken (when in fact it works fine, 
> apart from inheriting the -m behavior).
> 
> Does anybody know if this behavior is intended, and if so, why?  And 
> what are the consequences of changing/fixing it?

I think it's a bug - when fiddling with the sys module 
runpy.run_module() only uses the real module name, and not the requested 
run_name. It should actually modify both so that the assertion 
"globals() is sys.modules[__name__].__dict__" is correct when running 
the module.

So, I propose that if runpy.run_module is told it has permission to 
modify the sys module, and run_name is specified and exists in 
sys.modules, then runpy will use that module to execute the code, 
instead of creating a new temporary module.

If run_name isn't in sys.modules, then the temporary module used to 
execute the code will be stored in both places.

This is a semantic change so we can't really backport it, but we can at 
least fix it for 2.6.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread Aahz
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'm with Barry.  I still use Emacs.  Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm,
> whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode,
> distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following
> them.  Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences.  One space (for
> example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable
> space.

There's no need to invoke Emacs to argue for the superiority of two
spaces after each sentence, according to this vi user.
-- 
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  
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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread Steve Holden
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm with Barry.  I still use Emacs.  Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm,
> whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode,
> distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following
> them.  Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences.  One space (for
> example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable
> space.
> 
How very twentieth-century :-)

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Skype: holdenweb  http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
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Re: [Python-Dev] -z, -i and -m, maybe bug in runpy?

2007-07-24 Thread Nick Coghlan
Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Phillip J. Eby wrote:
>> While trying to get my -z replacement patch to work, I stumbled across 
>> a bug in the -m implementation (and in runpy).  It seems that when you 
>> run the code of a -m module, it is *not* run in the __main__ module 
>> namespace!
>>
>> So even though __name__=='__main__', globals() is not 
>> sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__.  This seems wrong to me.  Does 
>> anybody know why runpy doesn't actually run the code in the target 
>> module?
> 
> After implementing the runpy explicit relative import tests over the 
> last couple of days, it actually occurred to me earlier today that I 
> didn't have a test for this scenario. When I thought of the test, I was 
> also pretty sure it would fail - it appears I was right :)

OK, I've now had a closer look, and the problem isn't what I initially 
thought when I read your message (the test which I expected to fail 
actually passed without changing the current implementation). It turns 
out that while the module is actually executing it does the right thing 
- the problem only arises when the run_module function attempts to clean 
up after itself by reverting some of the changes it makes to the sys module.

The specific problem is this sentence from the run_module docs:
   "Both sys.argv[0] and sys.modules[__name__] are restored to their 
original values before the function returns."

It looks like those semantics are a mistake - the changes to the sys 
module should persist after the function terminates, leaving it to the 
calling code to decide whether or not it wants to restore the original 
state.

>> One consequence of this is that the -i option is much less useful when 
>> you use -m, because the script's globals have disappeared before you 
>> get to the interpreter prompt.

See above - the problem is that the function is cleaning up after itself 
and deleting things that may still be of interest when -i is also specified.

>> At this point, I've successfully gotten a -z replacement patch, except 
>> that it inherits this apparent bug from -m, which for a while led me 
>> to believe my patch was broken (when in fact it works fine, apart from 
>> inheriting the -m behavior).
>>
>> Does anybody know if this behavior is intended, and if so, why?  And 
>> what are the consequences of changing/fixing it?

It was intended enough to be documented that way, but I don't recall 
putting any significant thought into that aspect of the implementation, 
and nor do I remember anyone else questioning it.

The fact that it completely breaks the -i switch seems more than enough 
reason to consider it a bug, though.

I've changed the behaviour in r56520 to simply leave the alterations to 
sys in place when the function terminates. While this is a definite 
change to the interface (and hence not a candidate for direct 
backporting), I think the difference is small enough for the 2.5 to 2.6 
transition.

If enough people prefer, I can switch the code to an approach which 
fixes -m while leaving the semantics of runpy.run_module alone. This 
would involve renaming the version of run_module I just checked into SVN 
have -m invoke that version directly. run_module would be changed to 
wrap the function used by -m in the necessary code to restore the sys 
module to something more closely resembling its original state. That 
would also be the approach to take if we decided we wanted to backport 
this fix to the 2.5 maintenance branch.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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[Python-Dev] Calling back into python from C

2007-07-24 Thread Andrew McNamara
I realise I'm going to get slapped for asking a userish question here -
sorry in advance.  I'm looking for an explanation for why things are the
way they are, the doco and py source aren't providing the missing info,
and it looks like I'm bumping into an old Python bug (fixed in r38830
by mwh on 2005-04-18).

I'm working on an C extension that needs to call back into python.
Generally the GIL has been released when I need to do the callback,
but I can't be sure. So I need to save the GIL state, get the lock,
then restore it at the end.

As far as I can tell from the doco, the recommended way to do this is to
use PyGILState_Ensure() and PyGILState_Release(), but prior to r38830,
PyGILState_Release incorrectly used PyEval_ReleaseThread when it
should have been using PyEval_SaveThread() (I think), and the result is
SEGV. This poses a problem, as I need to support Python versions back
to 2.3.

Am I correct in using PyGILState_Ensure() and PyGILState_Release()? If
so, how do I support back to Py 2.3? Copy the current fixed
PyGILState_Release() into my code (ick)?

-- 
Andrew McNamara, Senior Developer, Object Craft
http://www.object-craft.com.au/
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[Python-Dev] Failure on assorted buildbots - Address already in use

2007-07-24 Thread Nick Coghlan
A lot of the buildbots are red at the moment, which makes it harder to 
tell if a checkin broke anything new on other platforms.

I've checked in a change to test_resource that should hopefully make 
some of the Debian buildbots happier, but several of the other buildbots 
are reporting a variety of "Address already in use" errors in the 
subthreads created by test_urllib2.

Anyone have any ideas?

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 7/24/07, Aahz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > I'm with Barry.  I still use Emacs.  Emacs's paragraph filling algorithm,
> > whether invoked explicitly via M-q or implicitly via auto-wrap mode,
> > distinguishes the usage of periods based on the number of spaces following
> > them.  Two or more spaces are used to separate sentences.  One space (for
> > example, G. D. Montanaro) following a period is considered a non-breakable
> > space.

I made this argument in private to Talin before he went here for a
second opinion. Apparently it wasn't strong enough. :-)

> There's no need to invoke Emacs to argue for the superiority of two
> spaces after each sentence, according to this vi user.

Indeed. After all, we're talking about PEP 9, which is a *plaintext*
format. Check out http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0009/ and you'll
see that it is rendered in a fixed-width font with line breaks exactly
where they are in the source, and the two spaces make a difference for
readability.

How about in PEP 9 we keep the recommendation, perhaps weakened to
"should" or "ought"; but in PEP 12 (the ReST equivalent) we remove it
altogether because it doesn't affect the rendering.

And let's please not make this into a bikeshed discussion than it already is.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Failure on assorted buildbots - Address already in use

2007-07-24 Thread Facundo Batista
2007/7/24, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> some of the Debian buildbots happier, but several of the other buildbots
> are reporting a variety of "Address already in use" errors in the
> subthreads created by test_urllib2.

Test pass ok in my machine.

However, if in another terminal I make...

>>> import socket
>>> s = socket.socket()
>>> s.bind(("127.0.0.1", 8080))

...the test fails exactly like in the buildbot.

Maybe the tests should be changed to use a not-so-standard port.

Regards,

-- 
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PyAr: http://www.python.org/ar/
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[Python-Dev] Py3k: error byte-compiling with distutils

2007-07-24 Thread Lisandro Dalcin
I'm porting some of my code to py3k, and I started from the C size.
After this, all extensions compiled fine, but after a 'setup.py
install', I got the following:

  File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/distutils/util.py", line
498, in byte_compile
compile(file, cfile, dfile)
  File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/py_compile.py", line 127, in compile
py_exc = PyCompileError(err.__class__,err.args,dfile or file)
  File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/py_compile.py", line 48, in __init__
tbtext = ''.join(traceback.format_exception_only(exc_type, exc_value))
  File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/traceback.py", line 196,
in format_exception_only
lines.append("%s: %s\n" % (stype, str(msg)))
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'msg' referenced before assignment


At this point, I had not updated my python code, so it surelly had
some py3k-invalid things. Looking at 'traceback.py', it seems there is
something wrong in 'format_exception_only', so this error.


-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread Bill Janssen
> Emacs will probably go the way of the vinyl record (though the latter  
> is seeing a resurgence lately :).

Doubt it.  Even as we speak, there's probably a student planning to
implement Python 3 in ELisp as a SOC project...

Bill

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Re: [Python-Dev] Py3k: error byte-compiling with distutils

2007-07-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 7/24/07, Lisandro Dalcin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm porting some of my code to py3k, and I started from the C size.
> After this, all extensions compiled fine, but after a 'setup.py
> install', I got the following:
>
>   File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/distutils/util.py", line
> 498, in byte_compile
> compile(file, cfile, dfile)
>   File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/py_compile.py", line 127, in 
> compile
> py_exc = PyCompileError(err.__class__,err.args,dfile or file)
>   File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/py_compile.py", line 48, in 
> __init__
> tbtext = ''.join(traceback.format_exception_only(exc_type, exc_value))
>   File "/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/traceback.py", line 196,
> in format_exception_only
> lines.append("%s: %s\n" % (stype, str(msg)))
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'msg' referenced before assignment
>
>
> At this point, I had not updated my python code, so it surelly had
> some py3k-invalid things. Looking at 'traceback.py', it seems there is
> something wrong in 'format_exception_only', so this error.

Try again -- I think this bug was introduced a few days ago. Kurt
Kaiser promised to roll it bck, but it hasn't happened yet it seems.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] Add a -z interpreter flag to execute a zip file

2007-07-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 7/24/07, David Gowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/24/07, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 7/12/07, Daniel Stutzbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On 7/11/07, Andy C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > The good thing about this is that it's extremely simple -- basically
> > > > 20 lines of C code to add a -z flag that calls a 3-line Python
> > > > function in the runpy module.
> > >
> > > Instead of requiring a -z flag, why not have the interpreter peak at
> > > the file to see if it starts with one of the ZIP magic numbers?
> > >
> > > That way it Just Works.
> >
> > I guess you wouldn't recognize a zip file if it hits you in the face.
> > Literally. :-)
> >
> > Zip files don't start with a magic number.
>
> ZIP files *do* start with a magic number; either PK\03\04 (non-empty
> archive) or PK\05\06 (empty archive). This is rather easy to notice,
> as I did in the bad old days of DOS, and i recently doubly verified it
> ('zip'+'khexedit', and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_%28file_format%29; I tried the
> infozip website too, but it seems to be down.)

You can believe that, but it's not the whole story. You can *prepend*
arbitrary data and the zip tools can still read the archive.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] -z, -i and -m, maybe bug in runpy?

2007-07-24 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 12:16 AM 7/25/2007 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>I've changed the behaviour in r56520 to simply leave the alterations to
>sys in place when the function terminates. While this is a definite
>change to the interface (and hence not a candidate for direct
>backporting), I think the difference is small enough for the 2.5 to 2.6
>transition.

Your fix is a definite improvement for me, my "run any importable" 
patch is looking a lot better.  There's just one problem left, which 
is that runpy is overwriting sys.argv[0] even if it doesn't need 
to.  So, when running from a zipfile, sys.argv[0] ends up None, which 
is wrong.

However, if I ask runpy not to mess with sys, it creates a new module 
namespace to run the code in, bringing me right back to square one 
(i.e., not being run in __main__).  Any thoughts?

My fallback at this point would be to add an option to run_module() 
to request that sys.argv[0] be used in place of calling 
_get_filename().  It seems ugly to do that, though, if only because 
there are already so many arguments to that function.

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[Python-Dev] Py3k: 'range' fail

2007-07-24 Thread Lisandro Dalcin
I did a fresh checkout as below (is p3yk the right branch?)

$ svn co http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/p3yk python-3k

after building and installing, I get

$ python3.0
Python 3.0x (p3yk:56529, Jul 24 2007, 15:58:59)
[GCC 4.1.1 20061011 (Red Hat 4.1.1-30)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> range(0,10,2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
SystemError: NULL result without error in PyObject_Call
>>>




-- 
Lisandro Dalcín
---
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Re: [Python-Dev] Py3k: 'range' fail

2007-07-24 Thread Alexandre Vassalotti
Yes, range() on the p3yk branch seems broken. However, this bug has
been fixed in the py3k-struni, the branch where most the development
for Python 3000 is taking place.

-- Alexandre

On 7/24/07, Lisandro Dalcin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I did a fresh checkout as below (is p3yk the right branch?)
>
> $ svn co http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/p3yk python-3k
>
> after building and installing, I get
>
> $ python3.0
> Python 3.0x (p3yk:56529, Jul 24 2007, 15:58:59)
> [GCC 4.1.1 20061011 (Red Hat 4.1.1-30)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> range(0,10,2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> SystemError: NULL result without error in PyObject_Call
> >>>
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[Python-Dev] Py3k: error during 'make install' in py3k-struni ?

2007-07-24 Thread Lisandro Dalcin
Afther checking out the py3k-struni branch, 'make install' issued this:

Compiling /usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/test/test_tarfile.py ...
*** SyntaxError: ('expected string, bytes found',
('/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/test/test_tarfile.py', 0, 0,
None))

If this is expected to fail, please forget this.

-- 
Lisandro Dalcín
---
Centro Internacional de Métodos Computacionales en Ingeniería (CIMEC)
Instituto de Desarrollo Tecnológico para la Industria Química (INTEC)
Consejo Nacional de Investigaciones Científicas y Técnicas (CONICET)
PTLC - Güemes 3450, (3000) Santa Fe, Argentina
Tel/Fax: +54-(0)342-451.1594
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Re: [Python-Dev] Py3k: error during 'make install' in py3k-struni ?

2007-07-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
Yeah, that particular test is not yet working. (Fixes are welcome --
see http://wiki.python.org/moin/Py3kStrUniTests for how to help.)

I believe I rigged "make install" to continue after this error -- did
the rest of the install complete?

FWIW, a better place to discuss Py3k bleeding edge stuff is
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign up at the usual place. (I've CC'ed that
list now -- please remove python-dev from followups.)

--Guido

On 7/24/07, Lisandro Dalcin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Afther checking out the py3k-struni branch, 'make install' issued this:
>
> Compiling /usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/test/test_tarfile.py ...
> *** SyntaxError: ('expected string, bytes found',
> ('/usr/local/python/3.0/lib/python3.0/test/test_tarfile.py', 0, 0,
> None))
>
> If this is expected to fail, please forget this.
>
> --
> Lisandro Dalcín
> ---
> Centro Internacional de Métodos Computacionales en Ingeniería (CIMEC)
> Instituto de Desarrollo Tecnológico para la Industria Química (INTEC)
> Consejo Nacional de Investigaciones Científicas y Técnicas (CONICET)
> PTLC - Güemes 3450, (3000) Santa Fe, Argentina
> Tel/Fax: +54-(0)342-451.1594
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-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Re: [Python-Dev] Two spaces or one?

2007-07-24 Thread Greg Ewing
Bill Janssen wrote:
 > Someone wrote:
> >Emacs will probably go the way of the vinyl record (though the latter  
> > is seeing a resurgence lately :).
> 
> Doubt it.  Even as we speak, there's probably a student planning to
> implement Python 3 in ELisp as a SOC project...

And run it on a computer built out of valves.
(You get much better sound out of your MP3s
on a valve computer, you know...:-)

--
Greg
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Re: [Python-Dev] Failure on assorted buildbots - Address already in use

2007-07-24 Thread Andrew Bennetts
Facundo Batista wrote:
> 2007/7/24, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > some of the Debian buildbots happier, but several of the other buildbots
> > are reporting a variety of "Address already in use" errors in the
> > subthreads created by test_urllib2.
> 
> Test pass ok in my machine.
> 
> However, if in another terminal I make...
> 
> >>> import socket
> >>> s = socket.socket()
> >>> s.bind(("127.0.0.1", 8080))
> 
> ...the test fails exactly like in the buildbot.
> 
> Maybe the tests should be changed to use a not-so-standard port.

Or use port 0 to let the operating system pick a free port:

>>> import socket
>>> s = socket.socket()
>>> s.bind(("127.0.0.1", 0))
>>> s.getsockname()
('127.0.0.1', 42669)

-Andrew.

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