[Python-Dev] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Barry Warsaw

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Wow, I bet this one crept up on you as quickly as it did me!

We have our second planned beta releases for 2.6 and 3.0 tomorrow.  As  
usual I will start looking at blockers and buildbots tomorrow  
afternoon (UTC-4 time) with a plan to start building things at about  
6pm.  Also, I will of course be in #python-dev on freenode to answer  
any questions, or get second opinions.


PEP 361 claims that these will be the last betas.  Whether that's true  
or not depends on how well the beta2's go.  Please help review code or  
fix bugs.  If you know of things that absolutely must go into beta2,  
be sure there is an open release-blocker bug on the issue.


Thanks,
- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Guido van Rossum
I think we should put this one off. The previous betas were done on June 18,
and IMO the next beta should be about a month afterwards, not 2 weeks.

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Wow, I bet this one crept up on you as quickly as it did me!
>
> We have our second planned beta releases for 2.6 and 3.0 tomorrow.  As
> usual I will start looking at blockers and buildbots tomorrow afternoon
> (UTC-4 time) with a plan to start building things at about 6pm.  Also, I
> will of course be in #python-dev on freenode to answer any questions, or get
> second opinions.
>
> PEP 361 claims that these will be the last betas.  Whether that's true or
> not depends on how well the beta2's go.  Please help review code or fix
> bugs.  If you know of things that absolutely must go into beta2, be sure
> there is an open release-blocker bug on the issue.
>
> Thanks,
> - -Barry
>
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--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Jesse Noller
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Barry Warsaw schrieb:
>>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Wow, I bet this one crept up on you as quickly as it did me!
>>
>> We have our second planned beta releases for 2.6 and 3.0 tomorrow.  As
>>  usual I will start looking at blockers and buildbots tomorrow  afternoon
>> (UTC-4 time) with a plan to start building things at about  6pm.  Also, I
>> will of course be in #python-dev on freenode to answer  any questions, or
>> get second opinions.
>>
>> PEP 361 claims that these will be the last betas.  Whether that's true  or
>> not depends on how well the beta2's go.  Please help review code or  fix
>> bugs.  If you know of things that absolutely must go into beta2,  be sure
>> there is an open release-blocker bug on the issue.
>
> May I ask if it really makes sense to release the beta tomorrow? Looking
> at the Misc/NEWS files for 2.6 and 3.0, there are around 3-5 entries
> for each release. I know it's good to follow the release plan, but it
> also may save you, the release manager, work for the third beta (which
> I think will be necessary if beta2 is released tomorrow).
>
> Georg
>

Speaking from my minor perspective - I've been sick and MIA, so there
has not been a lot of movement on the pep 371 issues / multiprocessing
bugs since Beta 1, there's still a fair amount of issues to close out.

-jesse
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Barry Warsaw

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On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:

I think we should put this one off. The previous betas were done on  
June 18, and IMO the next beta should be about a month afterwards,  
not 2 weeks.


I will not be able to make releases the weeks of July 21st and 28th.   
The next scheduled beta is August 6th.


There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and  
do the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.   
That would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.


- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:40 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and do the
> next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.  That would
> mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.

I vote for shifting things 2 weeks forward.

-- 
Cheers,
Benjamin Peterson
"There's no place like 127.0.0.1."
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Raymond Hettinger

From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and  
do the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.   
That would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.


+1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.


Raymond
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and  do
>> the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.   That
>> would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.
>>
>
> +1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.
>

In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and one in 6
weeks.

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Barry Warsaw

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On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks  
and  do the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August  
6th.   That would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me  
either way.


+1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.

In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and  
one in 6 weeks.


Okay.  I can't actually do it on July 16th, so the revised schedule  
will be:


15-Jul-2008 beta 2
23-Aug-2008 beta 3
03-Sep-2008 rc1
17-Sep-2008 rc2
01-Oct-2008 final releases

I will update PEP 361 now.

- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and  do
>> the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.   That
>> would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.
>>
>> +1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.
>>
>> In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and one in
>> 6 weeks.
>
> Okay.  I can't actually do it on July 16th, so the revised schedule will be:
>
> 15-Jul-2008 beta 2
> 23-Aug-2008 beta 3
> 03-Sep-2008 rc1
> 17-Sep-2008 rc2
> 01-Oct-2008 final releases
>
> I will update PEP 361 now.

+1

Thanks for being flexible!

-- 
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Barry Warsaw

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On Jul 1, 2008, at 7:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:


On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks  
and  do
the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.
That

would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.

+1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.

In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and  
one in

6 weeks.


Okay.  I can't actually do it on July 16th, so the revised schedule  
will be:


15-Jul-2008 beta 2
23-Aug-2008 beta 3
03-Sep-2008 rc1
17-Sep-2008 rc2
01-Oct-2008 final releases

I will update PEP 361 now.


+1

Thanks for being flexible!


Anything for a great release!
- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and  do
>> the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.   That
>> would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.
>>
>> +1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.
>>
>> In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and one in
>> 6 weeks.
>
> Okay.  I can't actually do it on July 16th, so the revised schedule will be:
>
> 15-Jul-2008 beta 2
> 23-Aug-2008 beta 3
> 03-Sep-2008 rc1
> 17-Sep-2008 rc2
> 01-Oct-2008 final releases
>
> I will update PEP 361 now.

Is a Google Calendar kept by anyone that lists stuff like planned
release dates, etc.?

-Brett
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is a Google Calendar kept by anyone that lists stuff like planned
> release dates, etc.?

It's on my personal one. :)



-- 
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Benjamin Peterson
"There's no place like 127.0.0.1."
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Barry Warsaw

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Hash: SHA1

On Jul 1, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:


On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks  
and  do
the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.
That

would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.

+1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.

In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and  
one in

6 weeks.


Okay.  I can't actually do it on July 16th, so the revised schedule  
will be:


15-Jul-2008 beta 2
23-Aug-2008 beta 3
03-Sep-2008 rc1
17-Sep-2008 rc2
01-Oct-2008 final releases

I will update PEP 361 now.


Is a Google Calendar kept by anyone that lists stuff like planned
release dates, etc.?


http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics

- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Jul 1, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>
 On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 wrote:
 From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 There are two options.  I could shift everything forward 2 weeks and  do
 the next betas on July 16th.  Or we could wait until August 6th.   That
 would mean 6 weeks between betas.  It's fine with me either way.

 +1 for six weeks to allow the code to be more thoroughly exercised.

 In that case I'd rather insert an extra beta -- one in 2 weeks and one
 in
 6 weeks.
>>>
>>> Okay.  I can't actually do it on July 16th, so the revised schedule will
>>> be:
>>>
>>> 15-Jul-2008 beta 2
>>> 23-Aug-2008 beta 3
>>> 03-Sep-2008 rc1
>>> 17-Sep-2008 rc2
>>> 01-Oct-2008 final releases
>>>
>>> I will update PEP 361 now.
>>
>> Is a Google Calendar kept by anyone that lists stuff like planned
>> release dates, etc.?
>
> http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics

Thanks, Barry!

-Brett
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[Python-Dev] Can someone check my lib2to3 change for fix_imports?

2008-07-01 Thread Brett Cannon
I just committed r64651 which is my attempt to add support to
fix_imports so that modules that have been split up in 3.0 can be
properly fixed. 2to3's test suite passes and all, but I am not sure if
I botched it somehow since I did the change slightly blind. Can
someone just do a quick check to make sure I did it properly? Also,
what order should renames be declared to give priority to certain
renames (e.g., urllib should probably be renamed to urllib.requeste
over urllib.error when not used in a ``from ... import`` statement).

-Brett
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Re: [Python-Dev] Can someone check my lib2to3 change for fix_imports?

2008-07-01 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just committed r64651 which is my attempt to add support to
> fix_imports so that modules that have been split up in 3.0 can be
> properly fixed. 2to3's test suite passes and all, but I am not sure if
> I botched it somehow since I did the change slightly blind. Can
> someone just do a quick check to make sure I did it properly? Also,
> what order should renames be declared to give priority to certain
> renames (e.g., urllib should probably be renamed to urllib.requeste
> over urllib.error when not used in a ``from ... import`` statement).

Well for starters, you know the test for fix_imports is disabled, right?

-- 
Cheers,
Benjamin Peterson
"There's no place like 127.0.0.1."
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Jul 1, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>>
>> Is a Google Calendar kept by anyone that lists stuff like planned
>> release dates, etc.?
>
> http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics

Can I get the non-iCal version?


-- 
Cheers,
Benjamin Peterson
"There's no place like 127.0.0.1."
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Second betas tomorrow

2008-07-01 Thread Barry Warsaw

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On Jul 1, 2008, at 10:42 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:


On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Jul 1, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:


Is a Google Calendar kept by anyone that lists stuff like planned
release dates, etc.?


http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics


Can I get the non-iCal version?


http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic

http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=b6v58qvojllt0i6ql654r1vh00%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York

- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] Can someone check my lib2to3 change for fix_imports?

2008-07-01 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Benjamin Peterson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I just committed r64651 which is my attempt to add support to
>> fix_imports so that modules that have been split up in 3.0 can be
>> properly fixed. 2to3's test suite passes and all, but I am not sure if
>> I botched it somehow since I did the change slightly blind. Can
>> someone just do a quick check to make sure I did it properly? Also,
>> what order should renames be declared to give priority to certain
>> renames (e.g., urllib should probably be renamed to urllib.requeste
>> over urllib.error when not used in a ``from ... import`` statement).
>
> Well for starters, you know the test for fix_imports is disabled, right?
>

Nope, I forgot and turning it on has it failing running under 2.5.

-Brett
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[Python-Dev] py3k branch still using -fno-strict-aliasing

2008-07-01 Thread İsmail Dönmez
Hi,

I remember discussing this before and coming to conclusion that
-fno-strict-aliasing would be removed from py3k CFLAGS. But as of now
its still used.

I tested with gcc 4.3.1 on Linux x86_64 and there is no strict
aliasing warning when this flag is removed. Also make testall passes.
Is there any reason to keep this flag? If not see the attached patch.

Regards,
ismail

-- 
Programmer Excuses number 45: I do object-oriented programming - if
the customer objects, I do more programming.
Index: configure.in
===
--- configure.in	(revision 64653)
+++ configure.in	(working copy)
@@ -785,23 +785,6 @@
 # tweak BASECFLAGS based on compiler and platform
 case $GCC in
 yes)
-# Python violates C99 rules, by casting between incompatible
-# pointer types. GCC may generate bad code as a result of that,
-# so use -fno-strict-aliasing if supported.
-AC_MSG_CHECKING(whether $CC accepts -fno-strict-aliasing)
- ac_save_cc="$CC"
- CC="$CC -fno-strict-aliasing"
- AC_TRY_RUN([int main() { return 0; }],
- ac_cv_no_strict_aliasing_ok=yes,
- ac_cv_no_strict_aliasing_ok=no,
- ac_cv_no_strict_aliasing_ok=no)
- CC="$ac_save_cc"
-AC_MSG_RESULT($ac_cv_no_strict_aliasing_ok)
-if test $ac_cv_no_strict_aliasing_ok = yes
-then
-  BASECFLAGS="$BASECFLAGS -fno-strict-aliasing"
-fi
-
 # if using gcc on alpha, use -mieee to get (near) full IEEE 754
 # support.  Without this, treatment of subnormals doesn't follow
 # the standard.
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[Python-Dev] [issue3214] Suggest change to glossary explanation: "Duck Typing"

2008-07-01 Thread Paddy 3118
Hi,
I'd like extra opinions on this issue please:
 http://bugs.python.org/issue3214

It's about changing the definition of Duck typing to remove hasattr and
leave just EAFP in the enablers - more detail is in the issue log.

Thanks, Paddy.
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Re: [Python-Dev] Can someone check my lib2to3 change for fix_imports?

2008-07-01 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Benjamin Peterson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I just committed r64651 which is my attempt to add support to
>>> fix_imports so that modules that have been split up in 3.0 can be
>>> properly fixed. 2to3's test suite passes and all, but I am not sure if
>>> I botched it somehow since I did the change slightly blind. Can
>>> someone just do a quick check to make sure I did it properly? Also,
>>> what order should renames be declared to give priority to certain
>>> renames (e.g., urllib should probably be renamed to urllib.requeste
>>> over urllib.error when not used in a ``from ... import`` statement).
>>
>> Well for starters, you know the test for fix_imports is disabled, right?
>>
>
> Nope, I forgot and turning it on has it failing running under 2.5.
>

And refactor.py cannot be run directly from 2.5 because of a relative
import and in 2.6 (where runpy has extra smarts) it still doesn't work
thanks to main() not being passed an argument is needs (Issue3131).
Looks like 2to3 needs some TLC.

-Brett
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