[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[MRAB]

On 2023-07-02 17:14, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

MRAB writes:

  > I would hope that if the maintainer knew that the package was on
  > the curated list, they would let the list know if they were going
  > to stop maintaining it. That would be part of being on the list -
  > informing the list's maintainers of any significant change of
  > status.

How do you enforce that that?  Yup, it's the responsibility of the
list curators because the package maintainers aren't always going to
do it.  Really, curating has to include removing packages that no
longer deserve listing as well as adding ones that do.

Well, you wouldn't be able to enforce it, but whether the maintainer 
shows a willingness to inform the list would be a factor in whether to 
include it.

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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

MRAB writes:

 > I would hope that if the maintainer knew that the package was on
 > the curated list, they would let the list know if they were going
 > to stop maintaining it. That would be part of being on the list -
 > informing the list's maintainers of any significant change of
 > status.

How do you enforce that that?  Yup, it's the responsibility of the
list curators because the package maintainers aren't always going to
do it.  Really, curating has to include removing packages that no
longer deserve listing as well as adding ones that do.

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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[MRAB]

On 2023-07-02 06:59, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 at 15:48, Christopher Barker  wrote:

Only re (the one in the stdlib)? What if you want PCREs -
there's no package called "pcre" but there's "pcre2", "python-pcre",
and probably others.



And are those three (and others?) actually useful maintained packages? Or 
someone's abandoned experiment?  Who the heck knows without digging into each 
one?

I would hope that if the maintainer knew that the package was on the 
curated list, they would let the list know if they were going to stop 
maintaining it. That would be part of being on the list - informing the 
list's maintainers of any significant change of status.


Would you know that even if they were on some official curated list?
Projects get abandoned at any time, and unless the curators are
constantly checking every package for currency, it's no different -
except that people will expect it to be different.


NOTE: I did a (very) quick google to see if someone had written a blog about 
PCREs in Python that might provide some guidance -- no luck. I like your 
decentralized blog idea, but I'm not sure how to get people to write them :-)



Indeed. But I expect it'd be easier to get one person to write one
blog post about their favourite packages than to create some sort of
comprehensive list of everything that's good :)



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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[Paul Moore]

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 at 06:11, Christopher Barker  wrote:

>
> The OP of this thread is not alone -- folks want an authoritative source
>

Authority is built over time. Unless someone starts doing this, there will
never be any authoritative source. In case it’s not obvious, none of the
projects or groups with existing authority have the resource (and/or the
interest) to take this on.

The best route to leverage existing authority is for someone to start a new
project, and then once it has reached a certain level of maturity, apply
for PyPA membership.

Unfortunately, too much of this discussion is framed as “someone should”,
or “it would be good if”. No-one is saying “I will”. Naming groups, like
“the PyPA should” doesn’t help either - groups don’t do things, people do.
Who in the PyPA? Me? Nope, sorry, I don’t have the time or interest - I’d
*use* a curated index, I sure as heck couldn’t *create* one.

Paul.

>
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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[Dom Grigonis]

Some automation could be done for adding new packages to already existing PRs, 
where correct addition would integrate nicely, align stats, such as last 
update, stack trends, benchmarks

> On 2 Jul 2023, at 09:36, Christopher Barker  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 11:01 PM Chris Angelico  > wrote:
> Would you know that even if they were on some official curated list?
> Projects get abandoned at any time, and unless the curators are
> constantly checking every package for currency, it's no different -
> except that people will expect it to be different.
> 
> It's quite different -- because at least the package was useful at SOME point.
> 
> But yes, maintenance would be required - back to the "it would take a lot of 
> work" problem -- I"m not pretending that that's not the case.
> 
> However, the amount of time the two of us have spent on this thread could 
> have been used to review the status of quite a few packages :-)
>  
> Indeed. But I expect it'd be easier to get one person to write one
> blog post about their favourite packages than to create some sort of
> comprehensive list of everything that's good :)
> 
> of course it would, but then you'd only know about a few packages -- not a 
> great comparison.
> 
> However, that's why I like the idea of a centralized package review site -- 
> then you get that one person to write one review of the PCRE packages and 
> post a PR. Then a couple hundred such people and you've got something! But 
> critical mass would be hard to get.
> 
> -CHB
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
> 
> Python Language Consulting
>   - Teaching
>   - Scientific Software Development
>   - Desktop GUI and Web Development
>   - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 at 16:36, Christopher Barker  wrote:
>
> However, the amount of time the two of us have spent on this thread could 
> have been used to review the status of quite a few packages :-)
>
>>
>> Indeed. But I expect it'd be easier to get one person to write one
>> blog post about their favourite packages than to create some sort of
>> comprehensive list of everything that's good :)
>
>
> of course it would, but then you'd only know about a few packages -- not a 
> great comparison.
>

And reviewing those few packages would be just as minimal as anything
else, because neither of us has any sort of comprehensive knowledge of
packages :) But maybe it'd be a start.

> However, that's why I like the idea of a centralized package review site -- 
> then you get that one person to write one review of the PCRE packages and 
> post a PR. Then a couple hundred such people and you've got something! But 
> critical mass would be hard to get.
>

Every review (where a "review" might cover multiple packages) would
have to have a date on it, so people know how useful the information
is likely to be. Which means your centralized review site is really
just a link to a bunch of separate things anyway.

ChrisA
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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[Christopher Barker]

On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 11:01 PM Chris Angelico  wrote:

> Would you know that even if they were on some official curated list?
> Projects get abandoned at any time, and unless the curators are
> constantly checking every package for currency, it's no different -
> except that people will expect it to be different.
>

It's quite different -- because at least the package was useful at SOME
point.

But yes, maintenance would be required - back to the "it would take a lot
of work" problem -- I"m not pretending that that's not the case.

However, the amount of time the two of us have spent on this thread could
have been used to review the status of quite a few packages :-)


> Indeed. But I expect it'd be easier to get one person to write one
> blog post about their favourite packages than to create some sort of
> comprehensive list of everything that's good :)
>

of course it would, but then you'd only know about a few packages -- not a
great comparison.

However, that's why I like the idea of a centralized package review site --
then you get that one person to write one review of the PCRE packages and
post a PR. Then a couple hundred such people and you've got something! But
critical mass would be hard to get.

-CHB



-- 
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)

Python Language Consulting
  - Teaching
  - Scientific Software Development
  - Desktop GUI and Web Development
  - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
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[Python-ideas] Re: dict method to retrieve a key from a value

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 at 15:48, Christopher Barker  wrote:
>> Only re (the one in the stdlib)? What if you want PCREs -
>> there's no package called "pcre" but there's "pcre2", "python-pcre",
>> and probably others.
>
>
> And are those three (and others?) actually useful maintained packages? Or 
> someone's abandoned experiment?  Who the heck knows without digging into each 
> one?
>

Would you know that even if they were on some official curated list?
Projects get abandoned at any time, and unless the curators are
constantly checking every package for currency, it's no different -
except that people will expect it to be different.

> NOTE: I did a (very) quick google to see if someone had written a blog about 
> PCREs in Python that might provide some guidance -- no luck. I like your 
> decentralized blog idea, but I'm not sure how to get people to write them :-)
>

Indeed. But I expect it'd be easier to get one person to write one
blog post about their favourite packages than to create some sort of
comprehensive list of everything that's good :)

ChrisA
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