PyDev 0.9.8.4 released
Hi All, PyDev - Python IDE (Python Development Enviroment for Eclipse) version 0.9.8.4 has been released. Check the homepage (http://pydev.sourceforge.net/) for more details. Details for Release: 0.9.8.4 Major highlights: * The license was changed to EPL. It can be found at: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/eclipse-1.0.php * Code-completion information is now saved in deltas instead of saving only at shutdown (being so, it does not loose information if it does not have a regular shut-down). Others that are new and noteworthy: - * Added option for not using the smart-indent after opening brackets * Some step-by-step instructions of how to get started with pydev have been contributed by Jack Trainor. * Many bugfixes Cheers, Fabio -- Fabio Zadrozny -- Software Developer ESSS - Engineering Simulation and Scientific Software www.esss.com.br PyDev - Python Development Enviroment for Eclipse pydev.sf.net pydev.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Steve Holden schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] It is all according to how things have been in Python for a long time. Unsane behaviour for a long time is still unsane behaviour. As your continued contributions on this newsgroup so adequately demonstrate :-). Sorry, I *couldn't* resist. You asked for it. It was hanging there (in a containing namespace?) waiting to be posted. If I hadn't said it someone else would have. And other justifications for what I hope doesn't seem like too unpleasant a personal attack. Well I would argue that a lot of the defenders of python are not reacting very sane. My impression is that a lot of them react like zealots, blindly devoted to the language, rather intollerant of every criticism and prepared to defend anything as long as it happens to be a current characteristic of the language and where any such criticism sooner or later is met with something like: If you don't like it, use a different language, as if only those who are 100% perfectly happy with the language as it is, should use it. The real issue here is that you should propery name class variables so that there can't be any confusion about class or instance scope. I use all uppercase identifiers for class variables for example. The fact that this can be regarded as unwise coding, doesn't imply it is sane behaviour of python. Variable shadowing happens. I don't consider it sane behaviour if the same reference in a line gets resolved in different name spaces Well I'm sure Guido will be happy to know you think his design is insane. Now who's calling who names? I'm not calling anyone names. I'm just pointing to one specific behaviour in python and call that behaviour unsane. If you want to interpret that as me calling his (entire) design insane, I suggest you are two defensive with regards to python. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 04:30:09 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: class A: a = 1 b = A() b.a += 2 print b.a print A.a Which results in 3 1 I don't suppose you'd care to enlighten us on what you'd regard as the superior outcome? class A: a = [] b = A() b.append(3) print b.a print a.a Compare and contrast. I take it then that you believe that ints like 1 should be mutable like lists? Because that is what the suggested behaviour implies. No it isn't. One other way, to implement the += and likewise operators would be something like the following. Assume a getnsattr, which would work like getattr, but would also return the namespace where the name was found. The implementation of b.a += 2 could then be something like: ns, t = getnsattr(b, 'a') t = t + 2 setattr(ns, 'a') I'm not arguing that this is how it should be implemented. Just showing the implication doesn't follow. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:53:37 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: I don't suppose you'd care to enlighten us on what you'd regard as the superior outcome? No. I don't think a superior outcome is necessary to see that this is not sane behaviour. I don't care that much on how it gets fixed. It isn't broken, there is nothing to fix. The code does precisely what the inheritance model promises to do. That is not a contra argument. Delivering what is promissed says nothing about the sanity of what is promissed. It is even possible that a number of things that are sane in itself, produce something unsane when combined or in certain circumstances. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... Ah yes. Well, good luck with that. You seem to have decided that it is not sane and who am I to argue with that. It depends on your state of mind :-) I can just say the opposite, that you seem to have decided that it is sane. I have. I like the Python model. The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. And again this argument. Like it or leave it, as if one can't in general like the language, without being blind for a number of shortcomings. Personally I don't see it as a shortcoming. It is this kind of recations that make me think a number of people is blindly devoted to the language to the point that any criticism of the language becomes intollerable. No not at all. Just look at all the PEPs and the changes in the language that have been made in the past. Python is very much community driven and that shows in it's progress. You on the other hand keep talking about emo things like 'sane' and 'madness' without giving any technical backing about these problems that you are having with the language. Snap out of that, make it a real discussion and maybe something good will happen. Or not :-) S. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web automation with twill
BTW, O'Reilly just published an article of mines on twill: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2005/11/03/twill.html Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Magnus Lycka schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: There is no instance variable at that point. How can it add 2, to something that doesn't exist at the moment. Because 'a += 1' is only a shorthand for 'a = a + 1' if a is an immutable object? Anyway, the behaviour is well documented. http://docs.python.org/ref/augassign.html says: An augmented assignment expression like x += 1 can be rewritten as x = x + 1 to achieve a similar, but not exactly equal effect. In the augmented version, x is only evaluated once. Then couldn't we expect that the namespace resolution is also done only once? I say that if the introduction on += like operators implied that the same mentioning of a name would in some circumstances be resolved to two different namespaces, then such an introduction would better have not occured. Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Magnus Lycka schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are two possible fixes, either by prohibiting instance variables with the same name as class variables, which would allow any reference to an instance of the class assign/read the value of the variable. Or to only allow class variables to be accessed via the class name itself. There is also a third fix: understand Python's OO model, especially inheritance, so that normal behaviour no longer surprises you. No matter wat the OO model is, I don't think the following code exhibits sane behaviour: class A: a = 1 b = A() b.a += 2 print b.a print A.a Which results in 3 1 On the other hand: class C: ... a = [1] ... b=C() b.a += [2] b.a [1, 2] C.a [1, 2] I can understand that Guido was a bit reluctant to introduce += etc into Python, and it's important to understand that they typically behave differently for immutable and mutable objects. All fine by me. I won't be using python any less because of this, because I use class variable very little and you can avoid this problem by avoiding instance that shadow class variables and always refer to class variables by class name. But that doesn't mean we should consider this kind of behaviour as it should be, just because it is in python. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cheapest pocket device to code python on
Devan L enlightened us with: I would not recommend trying to code on a handheld device. Small screen size and [usually] small keyboards make it less-than-practical. Stick with a laptop, or write it in a notebook, if you must. Although it isn't the pinnacle of usability, I can program just fine on my Sharp Zaurus C3000. Having said that, a real PC is a lot nicer to work on. But then, if you want to have a really portable programming thiny, the Zaurus is great. Not too cheap though. Sybren -- The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[no subject]
On Thursday 03 November 2005 07:28 am, venk wrote: Microsoft can create a competing version of Windows. TCP/IP became a standard long before Microsoft even acknowledged it's existence. So did ASCII, the IBM BIOS, and serial ports, to name just a few. Does the term ISO standard mean anything to you? Regrettably, the assumption that ISO Standard = Open Standard seems not to hold. I have found a number of ISO standards that are not meaningfully open. I am still a little confused about why anyone would do that. Regarding whether Microsoft has committed a crime, I believe Tim Daneliuk was attempting to draw the distinction between criminal and civil offenses, and indeed, I do believe Microsoft has only ever been indicted with the latter. This is a pretty big distinction in the US, I don't know how other countries characterize offenses. For example, one of the big points about so-called software piracy is that the recording and movie industry has been trying very hard to conflate copyright violation with theft -- but the former is only a civil offense, and the latter criminal. Big difference. -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[no subject]
On Thursday 03 November 2005 04:29 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:56:44 -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: There is a difference between what is *illegal* and what constitutes a *crime*. Why thank you, you've really made my day. That's the funniest thing I've heard in months. Please, do tell, which brand of corn flakes was it that you got your law degree from? No, he's absolutely right there. At least in the US legal system. A civil violation is not a crime, only a criminal violation. We have two major systems of law, criminal law and civil law. Most of the crimes that Microsoft has been accused of are actually civil law violations and are therefore not properly called crimes. Generally, infringements on copyrights, contract violations, and a wide variety of so-called white collar offenses are really civil violations, and therefore not properly called crimes. So, for example, illegally downloading a copyrighted movie from the internet and giving it to your friends is a civil offense, copyright infringement and NOT crime of piracy, despite enormous propaganda budgets from the movie industry trying to convince you otherwise. This has nothing to do with exonerating Microsoft, though. It's just splitting hairs. And Microsoft itself has gotten on the copyright infringement=piracy bandwagon, so if they are called criminals by the conflation of the two concepts, then they are merely being hoisted by their own petard, so I can't feel any sympathy there. -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I Need Motivation Part 2
i m currently in a network (LAN). i started python because i heard that it has great ability for networking programs and/or scripts, but i m losing my motivation with python because there are sooo many modules, that i cant just learn them all, this deters from c or c++ in which there are only a limited number of header files. what loses my interest is that if i cant learn these modules, and there are lots and lots of python modules, how can i ever be a good enough programmer/scripter. -- * Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Beta 7 * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I need Motivation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin P. Hellwig wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I m not a python Expert or anythin i need help, i m losin my motivation to continue with python can anyone inspire me again.??? Ooh that is easy, start learning other programming languages, you'll go back continuing with python very soon after that! ;-) It seems that many people switch to Ruby and never look back, some other go to haskell as well. Yes that is also a possibility, however then the OP wouldn't wish to be motivated to continue pyhton :-) -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I Need Motivation Part 2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i m currently in a network (LAN). i started python because i heard that it has great ability for networking programs and/or scripts, but i m losing my motivation with python because there are sooo many modules, that i cant just learn them all, this deters from c or c++ in which there are only a limited number of header files. what loses my interest is that if i cant learn these modules, and there are lots and lots of python modules, how can i ever be a good enough programmer/scripter. Well, you better stick with python then. Forget about all those modules, you would know what to use when the needs come up or ask by then. Python definitely has the momentum behind it for solving this kind of real world problems and I would say the best overall environment/language right now. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:35:35 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: Suppose I have code like this: for i in xrange(1,11): b.a = b.a + i Now the b.a on the right hand side refers to A.a the first time through the loop but not the next times. I don't think it is sane that which object is refered to depends on how many times you already went through the loop. Well, then you must think this code is *completely* insane too: py x = 0 py for i in range(1, 5): ... x += i ... print id(x) ... 140838200 140840184 140843160 140847128 Look at that: the object which is referred to depends on how many times you've already been through the loop. How nuts is that? It is each time the 'x' from the same name space. In the code above the 'a' is not each time from the same namespace. I also think you new very well what I meant. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:01:40 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: Seems perfectly sane to me. What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. class RedList(list): colour = red L = RedList(()) What behaviour would you expect from len(L), given that L doesn't have a __len__ attribute? Since AFAICT there is no single reference to the __len__ attribute that will be resolved to two different namespace I don't see the relevance. Why do you expect b.a += 2 to give a different result? I didn't know I did. It seems to me that you do. You didn't appear to be objecting to a line like x = b.a assigning the value of 1 to x (although perhaps you do). If that was the case, then it is perfectly reasonable to expect b.a = x + 2 to store 3 into b.a, while leaving b.__class__.a untouched. Of course, if you object to inheritance, then you will object to x = b.a as well. What I object to is that the mentioning of one instance gets resolved to two different namespaces. Since ints are immutable objects, you shouldn't expect the value of b.a to be modified in place, and so there is an assignment to b.a, not A.a. You are now talking implementation details. I don't care about whatever explanation you give in terms of implementation details. I don't think it is sane that in a language multiple occurence of something like b.a in the same line can refer to different objects That's an implementation detail only in the sense that while condition is a loop is an implementation detail. It is a *design* detail. b is a name, and any reference to b (in the same namespace) will refer to the same object. At least until you rebind it to another object. But some namespaces take great care not to allow a rebinding that would result in the same name being resolved to a different namespace during this namespace's lifetime. But b.a is not a name, it is an attribute lookup, An other implementation detail. b.a is a name search of 'a' in the namespace b. and by Python's rules of inheritance that lookup will look up attributes in the instance, the class, and finally any superclasses. If you persist in thinking of b.a as a name referring to a single object, of course you will be confused by the behaviour. But that's not what attribute lookup does. On the right hand side of an assignment, it will return the first existing of b.__dict__['a'] or b.__class__.__dict__['a']. On the left hand of an assignment, it will store into b.__dict__['a']. That holly python does it this way, doesn't imply it is reasonable to do it this way or that all consequences of doing it this way are reasonable. I think it even less sane, if the same occurce of b.a refers to two different objects, like in b.a += 2 Then it seems to me you have some serious design problems. Which would you prefer to happen? # Scenario 1 # imaginary pseudo-Python code with no inheritance: class Paragraph: ls = '\n' # line separator para = Paragraph() para.ls = AttributeError - instance has no attribute 'ls' # Scenario 2 # imaginary pseudo-Python code with special inheritance: class Paragraph: ls = '\n' # line separator linux_para = Paragraph() windows_para = Paragraph() windows_para.ls = '\n\r' # magically assigns to the class attribute linux_para.ls = prints '\n\r' # Scenario 3 # Python code with standard inheritance: class Paragraph: ls = '\n' # line separator linux_para = Paragraph() windows_para = Paragraph() windows_para.ls = '\n\r' linux_para.ls = prints '\n' I don't see the relevance of these pieces of code. In none of them is there an occurence of an attribute lookup of the same attribute that resolves to different namespaces. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-03, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. Except they *don't*. This happens in any language that resolves references at run time. Python doesn't resolve references at run time. If it did the following should work. a = 1 def f(): a = a + 1 f() But letting that aside. There is still a difference between resolving reference at run time and having the same reference resolved twice with each resolution a different result. Changing that would be changing a fundamental - and *important* - feature of Python. Arbitrary restrictions to prevent a single case of this from doing something people who aren't used to suvh behavior are kludges, and would constitute a wart on the language, pure and simple. Python already has its warts. If you want to argue that fixing this would make a bigger wart then the wart it is now. Fine I will accept that. If you think this is bad, you should consider Jensen's device. It uses call-by-name, which Python doesn't have. Actually, I would have thought it very interesting should python have provided some choice in parameter semantics. I think it even less sane, if the same occurce of b.a refers to two different objects, like in b.a += 2 That's a wart in +=, nothing less. The fix to that is to remove += from the language, but it's a bit late for that. mike Well we agree that there is a wart somewhere. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Steve Holden schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... No matter wat the OO model is, I don't think the following code exhibits sane behaviour: class A: a = 1 b = A() b.a += 2 print b.a print A.a Which results in 3 1 I find it confusing at first, but I do understand what happens :-) I understand what happens too, that doesn't make it sane behaviour. But really, what should be done different here? I don't care what should be different. But a line with only one referent to an object in it, shouldn't be referring to two different objects. It doesn't. Yes it does. If the b.a refers to the instance variable, then an AttributeError should be raised, because the instance variable doesn't exist yet, so you can't add two to it. Excuse me. The statement a += 2 causes a to refer to a different object after the assignment than it did before. So does the statement But the 'a' is both times in the same namespace. self.a += 2 In this case the 'a' is not necessarily both times in the same name space. So why are you so concerned that the pre-assignment reference comes from a different scope to the post-assignment reference? The fact remains that after both assignments the rebound name can no longer (ever) be used to refer to its former referent without a further rebinding taking place. I concerned with the a refering to different variables. A variable being a name in a specific namespace. If the b.a refers to the class variable then two should be added to it. Wring, wring, wring. (Sorry, got that wrong :-) Neither happens instead we get some hybrid in which an instance varible is created that gets the value of class variable incrented by two. Yes. So does this mean you also have a problem with def f(x): x += 2 g = 3 print f(g) When the function call executes, the name x is bound to an object in the call's containing scope. Is it then your contention that the augmented assignment in the function should add two to that object, changing the value of g? Whether I have a problem with this specific behaviour or not is irrelevant. In this case we have only one namespace with an 'x'. So searching for 'x' will not result in different variables being found. It doesn't, it simply proceeds along the lines of all Python assignments and resolves the name as a reference to a specific object. It then computes a new value from the referenced object and the augmented assignment operator's right operand, and rebinds the name to the newly-computed value. Please stop talking about variables. No I think variable is the right term here. It refers to a name in a specific namespace. Although augmented assignment operators have the *option* of updating objects in place, surely not even you can require that they do so when they are bound to an immutable object such as an integer. No but I can require that the namespace to which a name is resolved, doesn't change during the operation. It doesn't touch the *class variable* A.a which is still 1. Why should it? Why, why, why? And gain, just for good measure, why? Augmented assignment to a function argument doesn't modify the passed object when immutable, and you have no problem with that (I know as I write that this is just asking for trouble, and it will turn out that you also find that behavior deeply controversial ...) But it accesses the class variable. Repeat after me: Python assignment binds values to names. But not just to a name, it binds a name in a specific namespace. When I write class something: a = 1 def __init__(self, val=None): if val: self.a += val then in the last statement the augmented assignment rebinds self.a from the class variable to a newly-created instance variable. I am of course using the word variable here in a Pythonic sense, rather than in the sense that, say, a C programmer would use. In Python I prefer to talk about binding names because talking of variables leads people to expect that a name is bound to an area of memory whose value is modified by assignment, but this is in fact not so. The initial access to self.a uses the defined name resolution order to locate a value that was bound to the name a in class scope. So what? This is a long-documented fact of Python life. It's *supposed* to be that way, dammit. That it is documented, doesn't make it sane behaviour. Otherwise all companies had to do was to document there bugs. In a line like b.a += 2, you only have one reference to a name to be resolved in a spefied namespace (hierarchy). Since there is only one reference I don't think it is sane that two resolutions are done with two different variables as a result. I fail to understand why this is such a problem for
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? This is starting to look more like a nagging contest than a real discussion imo. Consider changing the semantics of what you are proposing and think about all those Python projects that will break because they depend on the above behaviour and even take advantage of it. So in short: yes, it would be too much to ask :-) But, you can fix it in your own code. Simply make sure that your class variables have different names or a prefix. S. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Op 2005-11-03, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. Except they *don't*. This happens in any language that resolves references at run time. Python doesn't resolve references at run time. If it did the following should work. a = 1 def f(): a = a + 1 f() No that has nothing to do with resolving things at runtime. Your example does not work because the language is very specific about looking up global variables. Your programming error, not Python's shortcoming. S. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I Need Motivation Part 2
blahman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) enlightened us with: i m losing my motivation with python because there are sooo many modules, that i cant just learn them all, this deters from c or c++ in which there are only a limited number of header files. There are over 2800 header files on my system in /usr/include. What do you mean a limited number of header files? Sybren -- The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: help converting some perl code to python
[EMAIL PROTECTED] enlightened us with: the problem is the '..' operator in perl. Is there any equivalent in python? any suggestions ? I have a suggestion: stop assuming we know perl, and explain what this '..' operator does. Sybren -- The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I Need Motivation Part 2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i m currently in a network (LAN). i started python because i heard
that it has great ability for networking programs and/or scripts, but
i m losing my motivation with python because there are sooo many
modules, that i cant just learn them all,
Why would you learn them all ? Learn the one you need when you need them
- jus don't forget to have a quick look at the existings modules before
reinventing the square wheel (I wrote a QD CSV parser before realinzing
there was a pretty good one in the stdlib... But what, my QD solution
took me laess than one hour to write and did what it had to do, so...)
this deters from c or c++ in
which there are only a limited number of header files.
In the stdlib, yes. Now there are thousands of librairies/frameworks
each reimplenting all the basic datastructure and algorithm (strings,
lists, hashtables, trees and the like), so you almost have to learn a
new language each time you use a new library.
what loses my
interest is that if i cant learn these modules,
Once again : you don't have to.
and there are lots and
lots of python modules, how can i ever be a good enough
programmer/scripter.
Like everybody else: write programs. That's the only way to become a
programmer.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
NLTK
Hi! I´m beginning to useNLTK python libraries to make PLN (natural language processing). I have problems about how to do CFG (context free grammar) and about exactly what library I should use (ShiftReduce or ChartParser). I´d like to know if someone could help me. thanks Correo Yahoo!Comprueba qué es nuevo, aquíhttp://correo.yahoo.es-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... Ah yes. Well, good luck with that. You seem to have decided that it is not sane and who am I to argue with that. It depends on your state of mind :-) I can just say the opposite, that you seem to have decided that it is sane. I have. I like the Python model. Fine good for you. The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. And again this argument. Like it or leave it, as if one can't in general like the language, without being blind for a number of shortcomings. Personally I don't see it as a shortcoming. Which isn't the point. It is this kind of recations that make me think a number of people is blindly devoted to the language to the point that any criticism of the language becomes intollerable. No not at all. Just look at all the PEPs and the changes in the language that have been made in the past. Python is very much community driven and that shows in it's progress. You on the other hand keep talking about emo things like 'sane' and 'madness' without giving any technical backing about these problems that you are having with the language. That you took those emotionally, is not my responsibility. Would you prefered it, had I called it a wart? As far as I see it, any negative comment on python is reacted to in pretty much the same way. So don't blame it on me using emotional language. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Stefan Arentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? ... Consider changing the semantics of what you are proposing and think about all those Python projects that will break because they depend on the above behaviour and even take advantage of it. Are you seriously saying there's lots of Python projects that would break if this particular weirdness were fixed? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stefan Arentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? ... Consider changing the semantics of what you are proposing and think about all those Python projects that will break because they depend on the above behaviour and even take advantage of it. Are you seriously saying there's lots of Python projects that would break if this particular weirdness were fixed? I have no numbers of course. But, why is this a weirdness? S. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: help converting some perl code to python
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the problem is the '..' operator in perl. Is there any equivalent in python? I can't think of anything with a similar operation, to be honest. I'd try using while loops which look out for the next section delimiter. -- Ben Sizer. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: Because b.a += 2 expands to b.a = b.a + 2. Why would you want b.a = something to correspond to b.__class__.a = something? That is an implemantation detail. The only answer that you are given means nothing more than: because it is implemented that way. Something that is written in the language reference is not an implementation detail. Every implementation that aims to be Python must follow this. It's a design decision. Whether you like it or not, you will find out that the behaviour of Python is largely based on an idea of an underlying structure. A lot of the syntax is basically just convenient ways to access this structure, and there is a strong tradition to avoid magic. The explicit use of self might be the most obvious example of that, but you can find a lot of other things in Python that shows you this, __dict__ for instance. I agree that the behaviour you are questioning isn't completely unsurprising for someone who stumbles over it the first time, but considering how things work in Python classes, where the class scope is searched if a name isn't found in the instance scope (self.__dict__), any other solution would involve more magic, and be more surprising to someone who actually knows what is going on. It's possible that a oldie like me, who started coding Python in 1996 is just blind to the warts in Python by now, but no language is perfect, and whatever design decisions you make, they will have both positive and negative consequences. I frankly don't understand what you are after Antoon. Just to vent your frustrations? If you want to use Python in an effective way, try to learn how to use the language that actually exists. Asking questions in this forum is clearly a part of that, but your confrontational style, and idea that everything that bothers you is a language bug that needs to be fixed is not the most constructive approach. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't really solve your coding problems, instead it leads the discussion away from the practical solutions. If you really want to improve the Python language, your approach is completely off target. First of all, this isn't really the right forum for that, and secondly, improvements to Python requires a lot of cooperation and substantial contributions of work, not just complaints, even if you might have a point now and then. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Op 2005-11-03, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. Except they *don't*. This happens in any language that resolves references at run time. Python doesn't resolve references at run time. If it did the following should work. You left out a key word: all. a = 1 def f(): a = a + 1 f() If Python didn't resolve references at run time, the following wouldn't work: def f(): ... global a ... a = a + 1 ... a = 1 f() But letting that aside. There is still a difference between resolving reference at run time and having the same reference resolved twice with each resolution a different result. The second is a direct result of the first. The environment can change between the references, so they resolve to different results. Changing that would be changing a fundamental - and *important* - feature of Python. Arbitrary restrictions to prevent a single case of this from doing something people who aren't used to suvh behavior are kludges, and would constitute a wart on the language, pure and simple. Python already has its warts. If you want to argue that fixing this would make a bigger wart then the wart it is now. Fine I will accept that. I've already argued that the kludges suggested to solve this problem create worse problems than this. This is a simple case of something being unexpected to those used to less dynamic languages. The other solutions break useful functionality, and require adding special cases to the language - which aren't special enough to break the rules. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Most efficient way of storing 1024*1024 bits
Tom Anderson wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Dan Bishop wrote: Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote: I need a time and space efficient way of storing up to 6 million bits. The most space-efficient way of storing bits is to use the bitwise operators on an array of bytes: Actually, no, it's to xor all the bits together and store them in a single boolean. I'd use 'or' rather than 'xor'. The or operator is more likely to yield a '1' at the end of it, and a 1 is narrower than a 0, obviously making it more efficient to store. -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? Yes. That's to much bondage for programmers who've become accustomed to freedom. Explain why this should be illegal: class C: ... def __getattr__(self, name): ... x = 1 ... return locals()[name] ... def __setattr__(self, name, value): ... globals()[name] = value ... o = C() o.x = o.x + 1 x 2 mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Stefan Arentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you seriously saying there's lots of Python projects that would break if this particular weirdness were fixed? I have no numbers of course. But, why is this a weirdness? Do you seriously think the number is larger than zero? Do you think that's any good way to write code? Examples of the weirdness have already been given. My favorite is the one where b.a is a list instead of an integer, in which case the class variable gets updated instead of an instance variable getting created. If you don't find the inconsistency to be weird, then ducky for you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Magnus Lycka schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Because b.a += 2 expands to b.a = b.a + 2. Why would you want b.a = something to correspond to b.__class__.a = something? That is an implemantation detail. The only answer that you are given means nothing more than: because it is implemented that way. Something that is written in the language reference is not an implementation detail. Every implementation that aims to be Python must follow this. It's a design decision. I have looked and didn't find it in the language reference. This is what I have found: An augmented assignment expression like x += 1 can be rewritten as x = x + 1 to achieve a similar, but not exactly equal effect. I think one could argue that in the case of b.a += 1 and a being a class variable that incrementing the class variable was a similar effect in this case. But I can be and maybe a more strict definition is available that I looked over. Do happen to know one? Whether you like it or not, you will find out that the behaviour of Python is largely based on an idea of an underlying structure. A lot of the syntax is basically just convenient ways to access this structure, and there is a strong tradition to avoid magic. Fine. I already wrote that if people think that changing this behaviour would cause more problems than it solved or that solving it would cause more problems than it is worth, I would have no problem with that. That doesn't change the fact that the current behaviour is on occasions awkward or whatever you want to call it. The explicit use of self might be the most obvious example of that, but you can find a lot of other things in Python that shows you this, __dict__ for instance. I agree that the behaviour you are questioning isn't completely unsurprising for someone who stumbles over it the first time, but considering how things work in Python classes, where the class scope is searched if a name isn't found in the instance scope (self.__dict__), any other solution would involve more magic, and be more surprising to someone who actually knows what is going on. It would be more suprising to someone depending on what is now going on. I also find that people underestimate the magic that is going on in python. But just because you are familiar with the magic, doesn't make it less magic. IMO python shows its history a little. It's possible that a oldie like me, who started coding Python in 1996 is just blind to the warts in Python by now, but no language is perfect, and whatever design decisions you make, they will have both positive and negative consequences. I completely agree. Personnaly I find python has withstood its changes remarkebly well and I find the design in general still very consistent despite the changes it underwent. I frankly don't understand what you are after Antoon. Just to vent your frustrations? If you want to use Python in an effective way, try to learn how to use the language that actually exists. I'm after nothing particular. The only thing I'm frustrated about is the way in which some people seem willing to defend python just because it is python. If the only reaction I would have gotten would have been something like: Yeah that seems a bit awkward but fixing this would break more than it would cure, I would have left it as it is. Asking questions in this forum is clearly a part of that, but your confrontational style, and idea that everything that bothers you is a language bug that needs to be fixed is not the most constructive approach. I have rarely indicated I wanted things to be fixed. Sure I would like it if some things were different, but I recognize that there are more important things that needs to be resolved. Does that mean I shouldn't mention things that IMO could have been better or that I should only mention them in the softest of language that certainly can't be interpreted as emotional language. -- Antoon pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
how to compile c-extensions under WinXP?
What should I do to be able to compile C-extensions (with python 2.4, winXP)? I get an error message, approximately The .NET Framework SDK needs to be installed; I tried to get something from the Microsoft web site, but maybe not the right version (or didn't set some variables), since the error remains. Could you please help me (it will need some patience with a computer newbie)? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Most efficient way of storing 1024*1024 bits
On 4 Nov 2005, at 10:26, Ben Sizer wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Dan Bishop wrote: Tor Erik Sønvisen wrote: I need a time and space efficient way of storing up to 6 million bits. The most space-efficient way of storing bits is to use the bitwise operators on an array of bytes: Actually, no, it's to xor all the bits together and store them in a single boolean. I'd use 'or' rather than 'xor'. The or operator is more likely to yield a '1' at the end of it, and a 1 is narrower than a 0, obviously making it more efficient to store. xahlee Typical gas guzzling, SUV driving american logic. A would obviously use more POWER and hence INCREASE GLOBAL WARMING leading to the ultimate DEATH of EVERYBODY you know and LOVE! /xahlee -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? Yes. That's to much bondage for programmers who've become accustomed to freedom. Explain why this should be illegal: class C: ... def __getattr__(self, name): ... x = 1 ... return locals()[name] ... def __setattr__(self, name, value): ... globals()[name] = value ... o = C() o.x = o.x + 1 x 2 I'll answer with a contra question. Please explain why this is illegal. x = 1 def f(): x += 1 f() IMO your example and mine are essentially the same issue. A name in one namespace shadowing a name in a different namespace. So please explain how the same kind of bondage is no problem in the function but is too much for those who've become accustomed to freedom in the case of objects with class variables? -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python and Lotus Notes
The second line of your code is already a show stopper in my case:
from win32com.client import Dispatch
session = Dispatch('Lotus.NotesSession')
session.Initialize('my_secret_passwort')
When started, ends:
File
C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py,
line 310, in RunScript
exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
File C:\temp\notes_init.py, line 3, in ?
session.Initialize('my_secret_passwort')
File c:\Python24\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py, line
489, in __getattr__
raise AttributeError, %s.%s % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: Lotus.NotesSession.Initialize
It worked before though with Version 5.x of Notes. In Notes Version 6.X
they introduced the session.Initialize() - that was the point, when I
couldn't create an instance anymore. I found no hint on the net... Do you
have any idea what is going wrong here?
Regards,
Marco
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Op 2005-11-03, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. Except they *don't*. This happens in any language that resolves references at run time. Python doesn't resolve references at run time. If it did the following should work. a = 1 def f(): a = a + 1 f() No that has nothing to do with resolving things at runtime. Your example does not work because the language is very specific about looking up global variables. Your programming error, not Python's shortcoming. It has nothing to do with global variables, the same thing happens with nested scopes. def f(): a = 1 def g(): a = a + 1 g() f() -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've already argued that the kludges suggested to solve this problem create worse problems than this. The most obvious solution is to permit (or even require) the programmer to list the instance variables as part of the class definition. Anything not in the list is not an instance variable, i.e. they don't get created dynamically. That's what most other languages I can think of do. Some Python users incorrectly think this is what __slots__ does, and try to use __slots__ that way. That they try to do that suggests that the approach makes some sense. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python is like COBOL! was: Re: Getting Python Accepted in my Organisation
Steve Holden wrote: To put things into perspective, it's important to get beyond the very broad categories of programming languages. It's pointless to judge Python on the merits of Perl or AWK, just because a certain label is sometimes applied to all three. That would be like saying that Java is more or less like COBOL. (OO COBOL?) Quite. People have said exactly that, you know ;-) Anyone else besides you? ;^) Seriously, it really depends on what aspects of Java and COBOL you compare. As you noted, COBOL is better in some ways... http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=42242 Well, I've never coded a lot in either language, but I've worked fairly intimately with COBOL and Java developers in some projects, and my exposure to COBOL made me understand a lot about the bugs that haunt mainframe systems. (I actually wrote a Python program that generated COBOL and JCL for database export/import.) It's one thing that it's so verbose: We had one architect who wrote enough pseudo code and SQL statements to keep around 10 COBOL coders fully occupied (and we still had a team with as many testers as coders, so it wasn't that the coders spent half their time testing). Still, the really distinguishing factor I saw in COBOL on mainframes wasn't bloat, but this completely static world view. For other programmers, COBOL programmers appear as inhabitants in flatland, who haven't discovered that there is actually a third dimension. They still view memory as a punch card. They constantly run into things like: We didn't think anyone could possibly have more than 20 employments during a month, and it turns out that his whole category has, but we've upped it to 30, and that seems to work so far. As a non-COBOList, the natural response is obviously to write code that works with any number of employments, and doesn't allocate the same amount of memory for those with one employment as for those with 25. In COBOL this seems to be prohibitly complex in many cases. Heck, they even determine the full size of files when they create them. We had some special (probably very expensive) software system that allowed us to dynamically allocate new space to files as data was added, but that was considered black magic, that only a few wizards understood. From this perspective, Java is much closer to Python than to COBOL. Still, Python is more dynamic than Java. I'd say that going from Java to Python is similar to going from COBOL to Java. Maybe scary at first, but an eye-opener that makes you feel more powerful. A bit like a journey to a foreign continent. I do think the step from COBOL to Java is bigger then the step from Java to Python though. In one way, COBOL and Python are the similar languages, and Java is the odd one: While COBOL is archaic, and appears retarded for modern programmers, it's easy to learn--at least if you haven't programmed before... It was designed to be easy for non-programmers to use. Python is a great newbie language. Java has tried to avoid a lot of the traps of C/C++, but it's still much more difficult to get started there, than with Python or COBOL. COBOL has been very successful. It's still used a lot today, after all these decades, and while it lacks a lot of the abstractions in modern languages, it has for instance numeric types that don't give the kinds of surprises that floats do. While the perfect modern successor to COBOL would probably have some features that are lacking in Python 2.x, I think we're pretty close. With datetime and decimal, we have the fundamental types that were missing before. OO is available but not forced upon us. The initial threshold to become productive is low, but we won't hit the ceiling as we evolve. Sure, there isn't full standardized support for all things we need, such as message queueing systems or distributed transactions, but that's not too hard to fix. There are C APIs... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Learning multiple languages (question for general discussion)
Alex Martelli wrote: Yes, but I haven't found knowing (and using) Python dampens my enthusiasms for learning new languages. But you're more enthusiatic than most of us Alex. I wish I could say the same, but I must admit that I only did halfhearted attempts at learning new languages after Python. I've looked a bit at most of the ones you mentioned, but there was nothing that gave me the drive to really follow it through. I've somehow become content in this regard. This doesn't mean that I'm not evolving. I regularly program in three languages (Python, C++ and SQL) and I must learn new things the whole time to keep interested, whether it's in the current problem domain, in architectural matters, in regards to libraries or development tools or whatever. Now it's Twisted for instance. Still, finding Python was a lot like finding a permanent home (which doesn't exclude various excursions, or prevent another move or two in this life.) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Fork() and exec() dont work
i m using Windows XP, and by tomorrow i will have have fedora core installed too. the problem is, when i use these fork() and exec() my windows doesnt do anything, python gives an error about the module, the kind of error when u know u r wrong. is it because these commands work on linux? if so, is it better for me to stick with fedora for my python programs or use windows? -- * Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Beta 7 * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Op 2005-11-03, Mike Meyer schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. Except they *don't*. This happens in any language that resolves references at run time. Python doesn't resolve references at run time. If it did the following should work. You left out a key word: all. a = 1 def f(): a = a + 1 f() If Python didn't resolve references at run time, the following wouldn't work: def f(): ... global a ... a = a + 1 ... a = 1 f() Why do you think so? I see nothing here that couldn't work with a reference resolved during compile time. But letting that aside. There is still a difference between resolving reference at run time and having the same reference resolved twice with each resolution a different result. The second is a direct result of the first. The environment can change between the references, so they resolve to different results. No the second is not a direct result of the first. Since there is only one reference, I see nothing wrong with the environment remebering the reference and reusing it if it needs the reference a second time. Take the code: lst[f()] += 1 Now let f be a function with a side effect, that in succession produces the positive integers starting with one. What do you think this should be equivallent to: t = f() lst[t] = lst[t] + 1 or lst[f()] = lst[f()] + 1 If you think the environment can change between references then I suppose you prefer the second approach. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Fork() and exec() dont work
fork( ) Fork a child process. Return 0 in the child, the child's process id in the parent. Availability: (!!!) Unix (!!!). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I Need Motivation Part 2
Sybren Stuvel wrote: There are over 2800 header files on my system in /usr/include. What do you mean a limited number of header files? I assume he's saying that the number is ∞. (Of course, the same is true of Python modules unless you use a special __import__ hook or something...) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: help converting some perl code to python
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i need help with converting a piece of perl code to python the problem is the '..' operator in perl. Is there any equivalent in python? Here is a class that emulates the .. operator: code import sys import re start, files, end = map(re.escape, [[start], [files], [end]]) class Section(object): def __init__(self, start, end): self.start = re.compile(start).match self.end = re.compile(end).match self.inside = False def __contains__(self, line): result = self.inside if result: if self.end(line): self.inside = False else: if self.start(line): result = self.inside = True return result first = Section(start, files) second = Section(files, end) for line in sys.stdin: line = line[:-1] if line in first: # your code if line in second: # your code /code However, the simpler code #untested import sys start, files, end = [start], [files], [end] keys = set([start, files, end]) key = None for line in sys.stdin: line = line[:-1] if line in keys: key = line elif key == start: # your code elif key == files: # your code /code might work even better because 'your code' doesn't get to see the sections' begin/end markers. Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Graham schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Once again, many thanks, your explainations are very detailed and i think i'm in full understanding of the what/when/why of it all. And with further introspection i can see why its done this way from a language processing point of view rather than programming one. I also now realize that instance.classvarname is there so that you dont have to type instance.__class__.varname all the time. You still have to if you want to change the class variable. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to compile c-extensions under WinXP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What should I do to be able to compile C-extensions (with python 2.4, winXP)? I get an error message, approximately The .NET Framework SDK needs to be installed; I tried to get something from the Microsoft web site, but maybe not the right version (or didn't set some variables), since the error remains. Could you please help me (it will need some patience with a computer newbie)? I managed to do it with the instructions at http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit/ -- Gerhard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:31:46 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. And again this argument. Like it or leave it, as if one can't in general like the language, without being blind for a number of shortcomings. It is this kind of recations that make me think a number of people is blindly devoted to the language to the point that any criticism of the language becomes intollerable. There are good usage cases for the current inheritance behaviour. I asked before what usage case or cases you have for your desired behaviour, and you haven't answered. Perhaps you missed the question? Perhaps you haven't had a chance to reply yet? Or perhaps you have no usage case for the behaviour you want. Some things are a matter of taste: should CPython prefer or != for not equal? Some things are a matter of objective fact: should CPython use a byte-code compiler and virtual machine, or a 1970s style interpreter that interprets the source code directly? The behaviour you are calling insane is partly a matter of taste, but it is mostly a matter of objective fact. I believe that the standard model for inheritance that you call insane is rational because it is useful in far more potential and actual pieces of code than the behaviour you prefer -- and the designers of (almost?) all OO languages seem to agree with me. The standard behaviour makes it easy for code to do the right thing in more cases, without the developer taking any special steps, and in the few cases where it doesn't do the right thing (e.g. when the behaviour you want is for all instances to share state) it is easy to work around. By contrast, the behaviour you want seems to be of very limited usefulness, and it makes it difficult to do the expected thing in almost all cases, and work-arounds are complex and easy to get wrong. The standard behaviour makes it easy for objects to inherit state, and easy for them to over-ride defaults. The behaviour(s) you and Graham want have awkward side-effects: your proposed behaviour would mean that class attributes would mask instance attributes, or vice versa, meaning that the programmer would have to jump through hoops to get common types of behaviour like inheriting state. The behaviour you want would make it too easy to inadvertently have instances share state. Normally we want instances to share behaviour but have unique states -- you would change that. Why? If it is just a matter of taste, you are welcome to your opinion. But you don't say that the standard behaviour is ugly, you say it is insane, that is, irrational, and that the behaviour you want is rational. That's an objective claim: please explain what makes your behaviour more rational than the standard behaviour. Is your behaviour more useful? Does it make code easier to write? Does it result in more compact code? What usage cases? Or is it just a subjective judgement on your part that it would be neater? -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Fork() and exec() dont work
blahman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: i m using Windows XP, and by tomorrow i will have have fedora core installed too. the problem is, when i use these fork() and exec() my windows doesnt do anything, python gives an error about the module, the kind of error when u know u r wrong. is it because these commands work on linux? as documentation says: fork( ) Fork a child process. Return 0 in the child, the child's process id in the parent. Availability: Macintosh, Unix. if so, is it better for me to stick with fedora for my python programs or use windows? You can achive the same thing in windows by taking different approach, but i would say that Linux is way more programmer-friendly (especially Debian ;-) -- Maciej Fiedzia Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl) www.fiedzia.prv.pl When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-04, Steve Holden schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] I suppose ultimately I'm just more pragmatic than you. It has nothing to do with being more pragmatic. Being pragmatic is about how you handle things with real life projects. It has little to do with the degree in which you agree with the design of the tool you have to work with. I would say I am more pragmatic than most defenders of python, because when it comes done to do my work, I just use python as best as I can, while a lot of people here seem to think that every little criticism I have is enough to go and look for a different language. No, being pragmatic is to do with accepting what is rather than wasting time wishing it were otherwise, particularly when the insane behavior was actually a deliberate design choice. Which is why it doesn't work the same as non-local references in nested scopes. Plus I started using Icon, whose assignment semantics are very similar, back in the 1970's, so Python's way of doing things fits my brain quite nicely, thank you. So, people can probably say that about any language they started with. That a language suits a certain persons brain, may say more about the person than about the language. I wasn't trying to make a point about the language. I was merely (and I thought charitably) trying to explain why I appear to be blind to the insanity you see all around you. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to compile c-extensions under WinXP?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What should I do to be able to compile C-extensions (with python 2.4, winXP)? I get an error message, approximately The .NET Framework SDK needs to be installed; I tried to get something from the Microsoft web site, but maybe not the right version (or didn't set some variables), since the error remains. Could you please help me (it will need some patience with a computer newbie)? See http://www.vrplumber.com/programming/mstoolkit and say thanks to Mike Farmer. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Paul Rubin wrote: Stefan Arentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you seriously saying there's lots of Python projects that would break if this particular weirdness were fixed? I have no numbers of course. But, why is this a weirdness? Do you seriously think the number is larger than zero? Do you think that's any good way to write code? Well it would break the Medusa asyncore/asynchat-based server software, so I can confidently predict the number would be greater than zero, yes. Several fine programmers have relied on the (documented) behavior, I suspect, as it's a convenient way to install per-instance defaults, for example. Examples of the weirdness have already been given. My favorite is the one where b.a is a list instead of an integer, in which case the class variable gets updated instead of an instance variable getting created. If you don't find the inconsistency to be weird, then ducky for you. Ho, hum. -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Steve Holden schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-04, Steve Holden schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] I suppose ultimately I'm just more pragmatic than you. It has nothing to do with being more pragmatic. Being pragmatic is about how you handle things with real life projects. It has little to do with the degree in which you agree with the design of the tool you have to work with. I would say I am more pragmatic than most defenders of python, because when it comes done to do my work, I just use python as best as I can, while a lot of people here seem to think that every little criticism I have is enough to go and look for a different language. No, being pragmatic is to do with accepting what is rather than wasting time wishing it were otherwise, Just accepting what is, is not pragmatic. Not much progress would have been made if we just accepted what is. particularly when the insane behavior was actually a deliberate design choice. Which is why it doesn't work the same as non-local references in nested scopes. That b.a = b.a + 2 works as a result of a design choice, that I can accept. But IMO b.a += 2, working as it does, is more the result of earlier design and implementation decisions than it was a deliberate design decision. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Not Equal to Each Other?
How do I 'define' set? Is there something to include (like import
random)?
while (choice == 3) and len(set(cellboard[0:8]))==len(cellboard[0:8]):
# DEFINE TWO RANDOM VARIABLES (ONE FOR ARRAY, ONE FOR NUMBER
VALUE)
solvingrandom = random.randint(1,9)
cellboardrandom = random.randint(0,8)
set(cellboard[0:8])
# CHECK TO MAKE SURE THE RANDOMLY ASSIGNED CELL DOES NOT HAVE A
VALUE
if (cellboard[cellboardrandom] is not ('1' or '2' or '3' or '4'
or '5' or '6' or '7' or '8' or '9')):
cellboard[cellboardrandom] = solvingrandom
The above is my code (right now it will only work for the first row's
numbers). Anything else I need to add?
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Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are good usage cases for the current inheritance behaviour. Can you name one? Any code that relies on it seems extremely dangerous to me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:31:46 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. And again this argument. Like it or leave it, as if one can't in general like the language, without being blind for a number of shortcomings. It is this kind of recations that make me think a number of people is blindly devoted to the language to the point that any criticism of the language becomes intollerable. There are good usage cases for the current inheritance behaviour. I asked before what usage case or cases you have for your desired behaviour, and you haven't answered. Perhaps you missed the question? Perhaps you haven't had a chance to reply yet? Or perhaps you have no usage case for the behaviour you want. There are good use cases for a lot of things python doesn't provide. There are good use cases for writable closures, but python doesn't provide it, shrug, I can live with that. Use cases is a red herring here. Some things are a matter of taste: should CPython prefer or != for not equal? Some things are a matter of objective fact: should CPython use a byte-code compiler and virtual machine, or a 1970s style interpreter that interprets the source code directly? The behaviour you are calling insane is partly a matter of taste, but it is mostly a matter of objective fact. I believe that the standard model for inheritance that you call insane is rational because it is useful in far more potential and actual pieces of code than the behaviour you prefer -- and the designers of (almost?) all OO languages seem to agree with me. I didn't call the model for inheritance insane. The standard behaviour makes it easy for code to do the right thing in more cases, without the developer taking any special steps, and in the few cases where it doesn't do the right thing (e.g. when the behaviour you want is for all instances to share state) it is easy to work around. By contrast, the behaviour you want seems to be of very limited usefulness, and it makes it difficult to do the expected thing in almost all cases, and work-arounds are complex and easy to get wrong. Please don't make this about what I *want*. I don't want anything. I just noted that one and the same reference can be processed multiple times by the python machinery, resulting in that same reference referencing differnt variables at the same time and stated that that was unsane behaviour. The standard behaviour makes it easy for objects to inherit state, and easy for them to over-ride defaults. The behaviour(s) you and Graham want have awkward side-effects: your proposed behaviour would mean that class attributes would mask instance attributes, or vice versa, meaning that the programmer would have to jump through hoops to get common types of behaviour like inheriting state. You don't know what I want. You only know that I have my criticism of particular behaviour. You seem to have your idea about what the alternative would be like, and project that to what I would want. The behaviour you want would make it too easy to inadvertently have instances share state. Normally we want instances to share behaviour but have unique states -- you would change that. Why? If it is just a matter of taste, you are welcome to your opinion. But you don't say that the standard behaviour is ugly, you say it is insane, that is, irrational, and that the behaviour you want is rational. I called it unsane, not insane. I think I paid enough attention to never use the word insane, yes I once used madness but that was after you were already all over me for this. Even should I have used the word insane, I used it for a lot less than you are implying. That's an objective claim: please explain what makes your behaviour more rational than the standard behaviour. Is your behaviour more useful? Does it make code easier to write? Does it result in more compact code? What usage cases? What my behaviour? I don't need to specify alternative behaviour in order to judge specific behaviour. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? They always do Antoon. There is no such issue for local (or global) varibles. The issue has to do with c.x = c.x + 1. In this case it's clearly designed and documented that this corresponds to: setattr(c, 'x', getattr(c, 'x') + 1) The result of these operations depends on e.g. how the __setattr__ and __getattr__ methods in the class in question are defined. You need to understand that the dot-operaterator always involves a lookup-operation that can be implemented in various ways. It's well defined that you can do things like: class Counter: ... c=0 ... def __call__(self): ... self.c+=1 ... def __str__(self): ... return str(self.c) ... c=Counter() c() print c 1 c() print c 2 class C5(Counter): ... c=5 ... c5=C5() c5() print c5 6 Of course, you could design a language, say Pythoon or Parthon, where this is illegal, and you force the programmer to do something longer such as: class APCounter: ... c=0 ... def __init__(self): ... self.c = self.__class__.c ... def __call__(self): ... self.c+=1 ... def __str__(self): ... return str(self.c) ... I don't see this as an improvement though... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Filepath string manipulation help
Steve,
the os commands don't run through zope, it denies access to them to be
run at all through the webserver. So in turn, I had to use a work
around to fix the IE problem. Also qwwee's suggestion to use:
filepath.split('\\')[-1]
works well too. Zope is very finicky about running specific commands,
I'm sure this is due to security issues of running os commands through
a website/webserver.
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Re: Not Equal to Each Other?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How do I 'define' set? Is there something to include (like import
random)?
set is a built-in type in Python 2.4
If you use 2.3 you can use the sets module with import sets
while (choice == 3) and len(set(cellboard[0:8]))==len(cellboard[0:8]):
# DEFINE TWO RANDOM VARIABLES (ONE FOR ARRAY, ONE FOR NUMBER
VALUE)
solvingrandom = random.randint(1,9)
cellboardrandom = random.randint(0,8)
set(cellboard[0:8])
# CHECK TO MAKE SURE THE RANDOMLY ASSIGNED CELL DOES NOT HAVE A
VALUE
if (cellboard[cellboardrandom] is not ('1' or '2' or '3' or '4'
or '5' or '6' or '7' or '8' or '9')):
cellboard[cellboardrandom] = solvingrandom
The above is my code (right now it will only work for the first row's
numbers). Anything else I need to add?
Simplify your code a bit:
'2' is not ('1' or '2' or '3' or '4' or '5' or '6' or '7' or '8' or '9')
evaluates to True
'1' is not ('1' or '2' or '3' or '4' or '5' or '6' or '7' or '8' or '9')
evaluates to False
Somehow I do not believe you want that behavipur.
If cellboard contains characters, you could use:
if (cellboard[cellboardrandom] not in '123456789')
for integers, the following should work:
if not (1 = cellboard[cellboardrandom] = 9)
Using None to code empty cells, you could even have:
if (cellboard[cellboardrandom] is None)
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Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Magnus Lycka schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Would it be too much to ask that in a line like. x = x + 1. both x's would resolve to the same namespace? They always do Antoon. There is no such issue for local (or global) varibles. I meant those 'x' do be any general expression that refers to an object. Like a.b[c.f] = a.b[c.f] + 1 The issue has to do with c.x = c.x + 1. In this case it's clearly designed and documented that this corresponds to: setattr(c, 'x', getattr(c, 'x') + 1) The issue is with c.x += 1 Sure I find the fact that the same reference two times in the same line can reference variable in two different namespaces ugly. But that one single reference refers to two variables in two different namespaces that is IMO more than ugly. Suppose I have the following: class I: def __init__(self): self.v = 0 def __call__(self): t = self.v self.v += 1 return t i = I() lst = range(10) lst[i()] += 20 Nobody seems to find that this should be treated exactly the same as lst[i()] = lst[i()] + 20 People seem to think since lst[i()] only occurs once, it should be only refering to one entity. Well I think the same kind of reasoning can apply to c.x += 1. The result of these operations depends on e.g. how the __setattr__ and __getattr__ methods in the class in question are defined. You need to understand that the dot-operaterator always involves a lookup-operation that can be implemented in various ways. But there is no reason that two dot-operator are executed when only one dot-operator is in the text. Just as there is no reason that two i() calls should be made when only one call is in the text. It's well defined that you can do things like: class Counter: ... c=0 ... def __call__(self): ... self.c+=1 ... def __str__(self): ... return str(self.c) ... c=Counter() c() print c 1 c() print c 2 class C5(Counter): ... c=5 ... c5=C5() c5() print c5 6 Of course, you could design a language, say Pythoon or Parthon, where this is illegal, and you force the programmer to do something longer such as: class APCounter: ... c=0 ... def __init__(self): ... self.c = self.__class__.c ... def __call__(self): ... self.c+=1 ... def __str__(self): ... return str(self.c) ... I don't see this as an improvement though... Well I thought in python explicit was better than implicit. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: XML DOM: XML/XHTML inside a text node
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my program, I get input from the user and insert it into an XHTML
document. Sometimes, this input will contain XHTML, but since I'm
inserting it as a text node, xml.dom.minidom escapes the angle brackets
('' becomes 'lt;', '' becomes 'gt;'). I want to be able to
override this behavior cleanly. I know I could pipe the input through
a SAX parser and create nodes to insert into the tree, but that seems
kind of messy. Is there a better way?
You could try version 2.13 of XIST (http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist)
Code looks like this:
from ll.xist.ns import html, specials
text = Number 1 ... the blarch/b
e = html.div(
html.h1(And now for something completely different),
html.p(specials.literal(text))
)
print e.asBytes()
This prints:
divh1And now for something completely different/h1pNumber 1 ...
the blarch/b/p/div
I hope this is what you need.
Bye,
Walter Dörwald
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ExpatError attributes
According to the documentation the xml.parsers.expat module provides the exception ExpatError and this exception has 3 attributes, lineno, offset and code. I would like to use lineno, but can't. ExpatError itself works, for example if I do import sys from xml.dom import minidom from xml.parsers.expat import ExpatError try: minidom.parse(my.xml) except ExpatError: print 'The file my.xml is not well-formed.' and then if the file my.xml is not well-formed, the program says so. Now I would like to tell the user on which line the problem is in my.xml, and the attribute lineno is supposed to do just this. But if I have import sys from xml.dom import minidom from xml.parsers.expat import ExpatError try: minidom.parse(my.xml) except ExpatError: print 'The file my.xml is not well-formed.' print 'And the problem is here: ', ExpatError.lineno then I get an error message: Traceback (most recent call last): File ./test, line 11, in ? print 'And the problem is here: ', ExpatError.lineno AttributeError: class ExpatError has no attribute 'lineno' So how can I access the line number on which an xml error occured? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: UART parity setting as mark or space (using Pyserial???)
On 2005-11-03, Petr Jakes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Using Pyserial it is possible to set the parity bit as ODD, EVEN or NONE. Correct. Those are the parity settings supported by pretty much all platforms. [...] Does anybody here knows some tricks how to set up the mark and space parity on the UART (using pyserial???), What OS? Mark and space parity are not supported by the Unix termios API that is used to do serial port stuff. so I can simulate 9bit communication? (I know it sounds silly, but I would like to try to re-configure the UART parity before each byte transmission). I suspect you're going to have to talk to the UART yourself to do this. In addition to the problem with mark/space being unsupported, you have to wait until each byte is completely sent (including the parity bit) before changing the parity and loading the next byte into the data register. Many OSes drain functions are notoriously inaccurate. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Did I say I was a at sardine? Or a bus??? visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
strange sockets
Hi, I'm preparing a python server that sends java classes and resources to custom java class loader. In order to make it faster I don't want to use URLClassLoader that uses HTTP protocol 1.0 and for each class/resource creates own connection. Instead I'd like to use raw sockets with simple protocol: - class loader sends a line terminated with \n with resource to get - python server reads that line, gets the file and sends back an integer with file length and then the file itself - class loader reads a lenght integer and then reads the remainig data The problem is when I try to read several files the first one is read quite fast, but the rest is read 40 x slower. For example (time is in seconds): % python client.py client.py client.py client.py server.py server.py init 0.00066089630127 client.py 0.000954866409302 client.py 0.0408389568329 client.py 0.0409188270569 server.py 0.0409059524536 server.py 0.0409259796143 what's wrong here? thanks, skink client.py import socket, sys, struct, time HOST = 'localhost' PORT = 8080 t1 = time.time() s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) s.connect((HOST, PORT)) t2 = time.time() print init, t2-t1 for arg in sys.argv[1:]: t1 = time.time() s.send(arg + \n) len, = struct.unpack(!i, s.recv(4)) data = s.recv(len) t2 = time.time() print arg, t2-t1 s.close() server.py import socket, struct, binascii HOST = '' PORT = 8080 s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) s.bind((HOST, PORT)) while 1: s.listen(1) conn, addr = s.accept() print 'Connected by', addr f = conn.makefile() while 1: resource = f.readline().rstrip() print [%s] % resource if not resource: break data = open(resource, rb).read() conn.sendall(struct.pack(!i, len(data))) conn.sendall(data) conn.close() -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. And again this argument. Like it or leave it, as if one can't in general like the language, without being blind for a number of shortcomings. It is this kind of recations that make me think a number of people is blindly devoted to the language to the point that any criticism of the language becomes intollerable. No, it's just that a goodly number of people actually -like- the relatively simple conceputal model of Python. Why /shouldn't/ a.x = foo correspond exactly to setattr(a,'x',foo) #? Similarly, why shouldn't foo = a.x correspond exactly to foo = getattr(a,'x') #? With that in mind, the logical action for a.x = f(a.x) is setattr(a,'x',f(a,'x')) #, and since a.x += foo is equal to a.x = A.__iadd__(a.x,foo) # (at least for new-style classes # that have __iadd__ defined. Otherwise, it falls back on # __add__(self,other) to return a new object, making this # evern more clear), why shouldn't this translate into setattr(a,'x',A.__iadd__(getattr(a,'x'),foo)) #? Looking at it this way, it's obvious that the setattr and getattr may do different things, if the programmer understands that instances (can) look up object attributes, and (always) set instance attributes. In fact, it is always the case (so far as I can quickly check) that += ends up setting an instance attribute. Consider this code: class foo: x = [5] a = foo() a += [6] a.x [5,6] foo.x [5,6] foo.x = [7] a.x [5,6] In truth, this all does make perfect sense -- if you consider class variables mostly good for setting defaults on instances. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:13:13 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: Fine, we have the code: b.a += 2 We found the class variable, because there is no instance variable, then why is the class variable not incremented by two now? Because b.a += 2 expands to b.a = b.a + 2. Why would you want b.a = something to correspond to b.__class__.a = something? Small correction, it expands to b.a = B.a.__class__.__iadd__(b.a,2), assuming all relevant quantities are defined. For integers, you're perfectly right. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
pycrypto rsa inverse of p modulo q
Looking up into Crypto.PublicKey.RSA, I see there is a computed value named u for which I can't see the use. The value of u is the inverse of p modulo q, in the code: obj.u = pubkey.inverse(obj.p, obj.q) Can someone tell me where this value could be used in the RSA scheme? (it is not used in the code anyway) Thx, -- jt -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: __slots__ and class attributes
Steven Bethard wrote: But why do you want a class level attribute with the same name as an instance level attribute? I would have written your class as: class A(object): __slots__ = ['value'] def __init__(self, value=1): self.value = value where the default value you put in the class is simply expressed as a default value to the __init__ parameter. Thanks for your explanation. The reason why I was doing it was to have class-level defaults, so that one can easily adjust how new instances will be made. I'm doing it now with capitilized class attribute names to avoid the name clash. -- -- Ewald -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I Need Motivation Part 2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i m losing my motivation with python because there are sooo many modules If you think Python has too many modules, then you better stay away from Perl and CPAN. =) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: reading a config file
When I need something like this I have employed the following:
[server_001]
blah = some server
destination=some destination
[server_002]
blah = some other server
destination=some other destination
[server_linux1]
blah = some other server
destination=some other destination
Then I do something like this:
import ConfigParser
INI=ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
INI.read(inifilename)
serversections=[x for x in INI.sections if x.startswith('server_')]
for serversection in serversections:
servername=serversection.split('_')[1]
#
# Code to operate on the servers here
#
Larry Bates
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hi
i used ConfigParser to read a config file. I need the config file to
have identical sections. ie :
[server]
blah = some server
[destination]
blah = some destination
[end]
end= ''
[server]
blah = some other server
[destination]
blah = some other destination
[end]
end=''
and i need to check that every 'server' and 'destination' is followed
by 'end'
if i used the 'sections' method, it always show 'server' and
'destination' and 'end'. how can i iterate all the sections. ie..
for s in cfg.sections():
do something...
or is naming all the sections with different names is a better option?
thanks
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Re: ExpatError attributes
Daniel Nogradi wrote: According to the documentation the xml.parsers.expat module provides the exception ExpatError and this exception has 3 attributes, lineno, offset and code. I would like to use lineno, but can't. try: minidom.parse(my.xml) except ExpatError: print 'The file my.xml is not well-formed.' print 'And the problem is here: ', ExpatError.lineno you're supposed to look at the exception instance, not the class that defines it: try: minidom.parse(my.xml) except ExpatError, v: print 'The file my.xml is not well-formed.' print 'And the problem is here: ', v.lineno more here: http://docs.python.org/tut/node10.html /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Christopher Subich schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. And again this argument. Like it or leave it, as if one can't in general like the language, without being blind for a number of shortcomings. It is this kind of recations that make me think a number of people is blindly devoted to the language to the point that any criticism of the language becomes intollerable. No, it's just that a goodly number of people actually -like- the relatively simple conceputal model of Python. Why /shouldn't/ a.x = foo correspond exactly to setattr(a,'x',foo) #? Similarly, why shouldn't foo = a.x correspond exactly to foo = getattr(a,'x') #? With that in mind, the logical action for a.x = f(a.x) is setattr(a,'x',f(a,'x')) #, and since a.x += foo is equal to a.x = A.__iadd__(a.x,foo) # (at least for new-style classes # that have __iadd__ defined. Otherwise, it falls back on # __add__(self,other) to return a new object, making this # evern more clear), why shouldn't this translate into setattr(a,'x',A.__iadd__(getattr(a,'x'),foo)) #? Well maybe because as far as I understand the same kind of logic can be applied to something like lst[f()] += foo In order to decide that this should be equivallent to lst[f()] = lst[f()] + foo. But that isn't the case. So it seems applying augmented operators is not a matter of just substituting straight translations to get the right result. Looking at it this way, it's obvious that the setattr and getattr may do different things, if the programmer understands that instances (can) look up object attributes, and (always) set instance attributes. In fact, it is always the case (so far as I can quickly check) that += ends up setting an instance attribute. Consider this code: Looking at lists in a similar way, it would be obvious that the __setitem__ and __getitem__ can do different things and so we should expect lst[f()] += foo to behave exactly as lst[f()] = lst[f()] + foo. -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Threading- Stopping
Is there a way to stop a thread with some command like t.stop()? Or any other neat way to get around it? Thanks! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Op 2005-11-04, Christopher Subich schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Stefan Arentz schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The model makes sense in my opinion. If you don't like it then there are plenty of other languages to choose from that have decided to implement things differently. class foo: x = [5] a = foo() a += [6] a.x [5,6] foo.x [5,6] foo.x = [7] a.x [5,6] In truth, this all does make perfect sense -- if you consider class variables mostly good for setting defaults on instances. Except when your default is a list class foo: x = [] # default a = foo() a.x += [3] b = foo() b.x This results in [3]. So in this case using a class variable x to provide a default empty list doesn't work out in combination with augmented operators. This however would work: class foo: x = [] # default a = foo() a.x = a.x + [3] b = foo() b.x This results in [] -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:03:56 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: Op 2005-11-03, Steven D'Aprano schreef [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:01:40 +, Antoon Pardon wrote: Seems perfectly sane to me. What would you expect to get if you wrote b.a = b.a + 2? I would expect a result consistent with the fact that both times b.a would refer to the same object. class RedList(list): colour = red L = RedList(()) What behaviour would you expect from len(L), given that L doesn't have a __len__ attribute? Since AFAICT there is no single reference to the __len__ attribute that will be resolved to two different namespace I don't see the relevance. Compare: b.a += 2 Before the assignment, instance b does not have an attribute a, so class attribute a is accessed. You seem to be objecting to this inheritance. len(L) = L.__len__() Instance L also does not have an attribute __len__, so class attribute __len__ is accessed. You don't appear to object to this inheritance. Why object to one and not the other? If you object to b.a resolving to b.__class__.a, why don't you object to L.__len__ resolving to L.__class__.__len__ also? Perhaps you don't object to that half of the problem. Perhaps you object to the assignment: you expect that assigning to b.a should assign to b.__class__.a instead. Should assigning to L[0] assign to L.__class__[0] also, so that all lists share not only the same behaviour, but also the same data? [snip] b is a name, and any reference to b (in the same namespace) will refer to the same object. At least until you rebind it to another object. But some namespaces take great care not to allow a rebinding that would result in the same name being resolved to a different namespace during this namespace's lifetime. And some take great care to allow such a rebinding, because that is the right thing to do to make inheritance work correctly. But b.a is not a name, it is an attribute lookup, An other implementation detail. b.a is a name search of 'a' in the namespace b. Factually incorrect. b.a is the name search for 'a' in the namespaces [note plural] of b, b.__class__, and any superclasses of b, *in that order*. Do you object to import searching multiple directories? Why do you object to attribute resolution searching multiple namespaces? [snip] I think it even less sane, if the same occurce of b.a refers to two different objects, like in b.a += 2 Then it seems to me you have some serious design problems. Which would you prefer to happen? # Scenario 1 # imaginary pseudo-Python code with no inheritance: class Paragraph: ls = '\n' # line separator para = Paragraph() para.ls = AttributeError - instance has no attribute 'ls' # Scenario 2 # imaginary pseudo-Python code with special inheritance: class Paragraph: ls = '\n' # line separator linux_para = Paragraph() windows_para = Paragraph() windows_para.ls = '\n\r' # magically assigns to the class attribute linux_para.ls = prints '\n\r' # Scenario 3 # Python code with standard inheritance: class Paragraph: ls = '\n' # line separator linux_para = Paragraph() windows_para = Paragraph() windows_para.ls = '\n\r' linux_para.ls = prints '\n' I don't see the relevance of these pieces of code. In none of them is there an occurence of an attribute lookup of the same attribute that resolves to different namespaces. Look a little more closely. In all three pieces of code, you have a conflict between the class attribute 'ls' and an instance attribute 'ls'. In the first scenario, that conflict is resolved by insisting that instances explicitly define an attribute, in other words, by making instance attribute ONLY search the instance namespace and not the class namespace. In the second scenario, that conflict is resolved by insisting that instance.name assigns to instance.__class__.name, just as you asked for. The third scenario is the way Python actually operates. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web automation with twill
Hi Michele, I taught to be the smartest in town! But when the experts take the field it is better that us newbies retire in good order... Thank you for your article and, with respect to Grig Gheorghiu (another expert), I must apologize for having be a little rude. I hadn't discovered in Internet your contributions because I hardly read the first 10 hits of a search. I need web automation also for that (in order to elaborate more search results reducing then my help requests and mainly my useless posts). By the way, are you aware that C. Titus Brown (twill's author) tells peste e corna of Zope? Bye. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
How can I do this in Python?
Hi, I have a web program and a user can have access to a page only after he logged in. So, the program comes with a Login form and the user logins.But I do not know how to return the user back to where he came from, after a successful login. Something like this: PageWhereUserMustBeLogin UserSigned-- ^-| Thank you for help L. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: Since ints are immutable objects, you shouldn't expect the value of b.a to be modified in place, and so there is an assignment to b.a, not A.a. You are now talking implementation details. I don't care about whatever explanation you give in terms of implementation details. I don't think it is sane that in a language multiple occurence of something like b.a in the same line can refer to different objects This isn't an implementation detail; to leading order, anything that impacts the values of objects attached to names is a specification issue. An implementation detail is something like when garbage collection actually happens; what happens to: b.a += 2 is very much within the language specification. Indeed, the language specification dictates that an instance variable b.a is created if one didn't exist before; this is true no matter if type(b.a) == int, or if b.a is some esoteric mutable object that just happens to define __iadd__(self,type(other) == int). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: help converting some perl code to python
The '..' operator is the flip-flop operator in perl. (It is rarely used.) It is exactly the same as the 'range' type operator. It returns false until the first condition is met, then it returns true until the last condition met, then it returns false. You could create a flip-flop with a python closure (t_cond and f_cond are functions that take a value and return True of False) def make_flip_flop(t_cond, f_cond): state = [False] def flip_flop(val): if state[0] and f_cond(val): state[0] = False elif not state[0] and t_cond(val): state[0] = True return state[0] return flip_flop -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Web automation with twill
qwwwee: By the way, are you aware that C. Titus Brown (twill's author) tells peste e corna of Zope? No, but I am not surprised. I also say peste e corna of Zope ;) In general I am an anti-frameworks guy (in good company with many Pythonistas including Guido). Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: Well I wonder. Would the following code be considered a name binding operation: b.a = 5 Try it, it's not. Python 2.2.3 (#1, Nov 12 2004, 13:02:04) [GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-42)] on linux2 Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information. a Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? NameError: name 'a' is not defined b = object() b.a Traceback (most recent call last): File stdin, line 1, in ? AttributeError: 'object' object has no attribute 'a' Once it's attached to an object, it's an attribute, not a base name. The distinction is subtle and possibly something that could (should?) be unified for Py3k, but in cases like this the distinction is important. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Shareware in Python
I want to create some shareware program in Python. Can I distribute this program with python24.dll file from Python 2.4.2? I'm not sure if Python GPL compatible license allowing for doing it. Thanks, Ivan Sas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I Need Motivation Part 2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i m losing my motivation with python because there are sooo many modules, that i cant just learn them all, As other's have said, don't bother. If you ever need to use a module that you don't know, just go to http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html (easily accessable from the Documentation link on the Python Home page), or a local copy, and scrounge around. I might suggest skimming it once, to see what is possible, but it isn't nessasary to learn it. -- Knowing that there is a Python module in the standard library to do CSV/Date manipulation/MD5/etc is sufficient. You don't even need to know what the module is called - a minute skimming the TOC will point you in the right direction. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Learning multiple languages (question for general discussion)
Magnus Lycka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alex Martelli wrote: Yes, but I haven't found knowing (and using) Python dampens my enthusiasms for learning new languages. But you're more enthusiatic than most of us Alex. I wish I could say the same, but I must admit that I only did halfhearted attempts at learning new languages after Python. I've looked a bit at most of the ones you mentioned, but there was nothing that gave me the drive to really follow it through. I've somehow become content in this regard. I can't imagine NOT getting enthusiastic and stimulated by reading Van Roy and Hariri's book -- it IS quite as good and readable as SICP. Ruby's also blessed with good books (and the excellent Rails, too). This doesn't mean that I'm not evolving. I regularly program in three languages (Python, C++ and SQL) and I must learn new things the whole time to keep interested, whether it's in the current problem domain, in architectural matters, in regards to libraries or development tools or whatever. Now I agree, languages are not the only thing worth learning -- they just tend to be more fun (although big frameworks compete with them for this distinction;-). Knuth's latest work is always stimulating, too, even though the new RISC MIX isn't particularly so;-). it's Twisted for instance. Still, finding Python was a lot like finding a permanent home (which doesn't exclude various excursions, or prevent another move or two in this life.) Yes, good analogy, I think -- just the right mix of elegance and practicality one would look for in one's home!-) Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Graham wrote:
My question remains however, i suppose i'm not familiar with how this
functions in
other languages, but what is the common way of referring to a class
variable.
is class.var the norm?
or instance.var the norm.
It's not always that easy, due to inheritance. You might want
the var defined in the class where a method you define now
is implemented (A.var if we're in a method defined in class A),
or you might want var in the class of the instance object
(which could be a subclass of A). You can get that through
self.__class__.var, so I guess you could always manage without
Python searching in the class scope after searching the instance
scope, if it wasn't for the problem below...
I just seems to me that instance.var shouldn't defer to the class
variable if
an instance variable of the same name does not exists, it should, at
least how i
understand it raise an exception.
So, you want this:
class A:
... def f(self):
... print 'Hello'
...
a = A()
a.f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'f'
A bit boring that we need to make method calls
with a.__class__.f(a) in your Python...
Python is more consistent than you have thought...
You know, it could be that we want to assign the
method to another variable, as in:
o = A()
o_f = o.f # This might look as I'm getting a normal
# attribute, but f is a method
for i in range(gazillion):
o_f() # This is slightly faster than o.f()
Or, we might want to do:
o.f=len
o.f('Hello')
Here, o.f is no longer a method in o's class hierarchy, but
it's still callable.
If you think about it, you'll understand that in such a dynamic
language as Python, there is no way that the interpreter can
know before lookup whether it will find a method or a simple
attribute. If it's going to look in different places depending
on what it will find when it has looked...we have a Catch 22.
Normal methods in Python are defined in the scope of the class,
and they are passed the instance object as their first argument
when they are called. The call (where the instance object is
implicitly called in case of a bound method) is something that
comes after the lookup, as you can see in the a_f() example.
Python is *very* dynamic. The behaviour of the class can change
after the instance has been created.
class A:
... def f(self):
... print 'Hello'
...
a = A()
a.f()
Hello
del A.f
a.f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'f'
How would this work if 'a.f' doesn't cause a lookup in A if it's
missing in a? Do you want a.f to first search the instance a, then
the class A, and if it finds f in A, issue an AttributeError if it
turns out that f isn't a method?
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cheapest pocket device to code python on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the cheapest/affordable pocket device that I can code python on? I think the closest I have seen is pocketpc from this page: A used Fujitsu Lifebook running Linux and fairly large pockets? ;) There is some version of Python running on Palms, but it's stripped down, and I haven't tried it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Class Variable Access and Assignment
Antoon Pardon wrote: I have looked and didn't find it in the language reference. This is what I have found: An augmented assignment expression like x += 1 can be rewritten as x = x + 1 to achieve a similar, but not exactly equal effect. It's just a little further down. I'll post the quote once more (but this is the last time ;^): For targets which are attribute references, the initial value is retrieved with a getattr() and the result is assigned with a setattr(). Notice that the two methods do not necessarily refer to the same variable. When getattr() refers to a class variable, setattr() still writes to an instance variable. For example: class A: x = 3# class variable a = A() a.x += 1 # writes a.x as 4 leaving A.x as 3 I'd say it's documented... That doesn't change the fact that the current behaviour is on occasions awkward or whatever you want to call it. I fear that this has to do with the way reality works. Perhaps it's due to Gödel's incompleteness theorems... :) Sure, Python has evolved and grown for about 15 years, and backward compatibility has always been an issue, but the management and development of Python is dynamic and fairly open-minded. If there had been an obvious way to change this in a way that solved more problems than it caused, I suspect that change would have happened already. I also find that people underestimate the magic that is going on in python. But just because you are familiar with the magic, doesn't make it less magic. IMO python shows its history a little. If Guido would design a new language today, that was aiming at the kind of tasks Python solves, I'm sure it wouldn't be identical to the current Python. The languages I'm most experienced in besides Python are C++ and SQL. Compared to those beasts, Python is a wonder in clarity and consistency. I don't think a single vendor has managed to fully implement the SQL standard, and it's known that the standard contains bugs, inconsitencies and gaps, even though (or because) it's been worked on for more than 20 years. The C++ spec is marginally better. Of course, there isn't a formal specification for Python. I don't know if the language reference is so complete that someone could actually write another really compatible Python implementation based on just the reference manual. Still the difference is drastic. I suspect that only few people in the SQL standard committee fully understand the spec (maybe C.J. Date and Hugh Darwen does) and all the things happening under the hood in C++ is staggering, considering that this language is really just a fancy assmbler that can't even manage memory for the programmer! I'm after nothing particular. The only thing I'm frustrated about is the way in which some people seem willing to defend python just because it is python. If the only reaction I would have gotten would have been something like: Yeah that seems a bit awkward but fixing this would break more than it would cure, I would have left it as it is. That's probably what most people think, but we're not entirely rational. We're human. An emotional posting will probably attract equally emotional responses. I have rarely indicated I wanted things to be fixed. Sure I would like it if some things were different, but I recognize that there are more important things that needs to be resolved. Does that mean I shouldn't mention things that IMO could have been better or that I should only mention them in the softest of language that certainly can't be interpreted as emotional language. Personally, I want comp.lang.python to work as a way for me to learn new things about Python, to get help if I'm stuck with something, and as a way for me to inform others about Python stuff. It's also a part of the Python community--an arena where I communicate with other Pythonistas. This is something important for me, both professionally and personally. I try to think an extra time before I post messages. It this message meaningful? Does it add anything of value? Am I just repeating what is already said? Is this message likely to have some kind of positive impact or will it just be ignored? Might I hurt someone? Am I building useful relationships? When it works as it should, people you've never met before will buy you beer or lunch when you happen to be in their neighbourhood. At least they might come up to you and chat if you go to a Python conference. They might also offer you jobs or contracts etc. This is really nice and valuable. Something to handle with care. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Not Equal to Each Other?
will I have to write that out for each number? Not if you know how to use the 'for' statement. It will allow you to iterate through the rows or columns or whatnot. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Shareware in Python
Ivan Sas wrote: I want to create some shareware program in Python. Can I distribute this program with python24.dll file from Python 2.4.2? I'm not sure if Python GPL compatible license allowing for doing it. Thanks, Ivan Sas Python is distributed under its own license, not the GPL: see http://www.python.org/2.4.2/license.html for details. I've just skimmed it, and it looks like you're fine as long as you include the Python license agreement and copyright notice. -- David -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Threading- Stopping
Tuvas wrote: Is there a way to stop a thread with some command like t.stop()? Or any other neat way to get around it? Thanks! Sadly, no. While Java and many other programming languages have an interrupt() primitive, Python does not. You can approximate this by using a global variable to tell the thread when to stop, for example: shutdown = False class MyThread(Thread): def run(self): while not shutdown: # do whatever def kill_thread(): shutdown = True There's no general way to wake up a thread that's blocked--you have to satisfy the condition that's causing it to block. If it's waiting for input from a Queue, you have to push a dummy value down it to wake up the thread and give it a chance to check the shutdown flag. If it's blocking to do I/O, you'll have to use select() and provide a timeout value to check the flag periodically. -- David -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How can I do this in Python?
Lad wrote: Hi, I have a web program and a user can have access to a page only after he logged in. So, the program comes with a Login form and the user logins.But I do not know how to return the user back to where he came from, after a successful login. Something like this: PageWhereUserMustBeLogin UserSigned-- ^-| Thank you for help L. You'll need to either use a hidden form field or check the HTTP Referer header to determine the page the user was on. Then, just use an HTTP redirect to send them back to that page. Are you using a particular web application framework, or separate CGI scripts? -- David -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Cheapest pocket device to code python on
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sybren Stuvel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Devan L enlightened us with: I would not recommend trying to code on a handheld device. Small screen size and [usually] small keyboards make it less-than-practical. Stick with a laptop, or write it in a notebook, if you must. Although it isn't the pinnacle of usability, I can program just fine on my Sharp Zaurus C3000. Having said that, a real PC is a lot nicer to work on. But then, if you want to have a really portable programming thiny, the Zaurus is great. Not too cheap though. . . . A colleague who works with Tcl (for this purpose, think of it as Python, except different) achieves stunning results with his tiny PocketPC Magician. For inspiration, see URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/HTC%20Magician . Richard makes me want such a device, even though I orient exceedingly strongly to full-size keyboards. Incidentally, the Samsung 730 is another I'm considering. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: XML DOM: XML/XHTML inside a text node
In my program, I get input from the user and insert it into an XHTML
document. Sometimes, this input will contain XHTML, but since I'm
inserting it as a text node, xml.dom.minidom escapes the angle brackets
('' becomes 'lt;', '' becomes 'gt;'). I want to be able to
override this behavior cleanly. I know I could pipe the input through
a SAX parser and create nodes to insert into the tree, but that seems
kind of messy. Is there a better way?
Amara 1.1.6 supports inserting an XML fragment into a document or
element object. Many short examples here:
http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2005-09-21/Dare_s_XLI
excerpt:
Adding a phone element as a child of the contact element'
contacts.xml_append_fragment('phone%s/phone'%'206-555-0168'
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/4suite/amara
--
Uche Ogbuji Fourthought, Inc.
http://uche.ogbuji.nethttp://fourthought.com
http://copia.ogbuji.net http://4Suite.org
Articles: http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/publications/
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
exec behaviour
Hello, I can't understand some specific behaviour of the exec statment. For example, say that I create such a class A : class A: def __init__(self): self.n = 3 self.m = None def h(self, ini): n = self.n m = self.m if ini: exec(def m(x): return n+x); self.m=m else: m(7) Now : obj = A() obj.h(1) obj.h(0) I get : Traceback (most recent call last): File input, line 1, in ? File input, line 9, in h File string, line 1, in m NameError: global name 'n' is not defined Now, suppose I would like to make exactly the same without exec : class A: def __init__(self): self.n = 3 self.m = None def h(self, ini): n = self.n m = self.m if ini: def m(x): return n+x self.m=m else: return m(7) je lance : obj = A() obj.h(1) obj.h(0) This time, it works fine !!! If I knew why the first doesn't work, and the second does, it would be a great help for me for my program... Thank you very much ! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
how to open a windows folder?
I'd love to be able to open up a windows folder, like c:\temp, so that it pops up visually. I know how to drill down into a directory, but I can't figure out how to open one up on screen. Would I have to make a call to windows explorer in a similar way that I hit Excel with: from win32com.client import Dispatch Excel = Dispatch(Excel.Application) Any clues? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: how to open a windows folder?
[Bell, Kevin] I'd love to be able to open up a windows folder, like c:\temp, so that it pops up visually. I know how to drill down into a directory, but I can't figure out how to open one up on screen. Would I have to make a call to windows explorer in a similar way that I hit Excel with: Ummm. I may have misunderstood you, but would either of: import os os.startfile (c:/temp) # or import os os.system (rexplorer c:\temp) be what you wanted? TJG This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to open a windows folder?
Not elegant but this works: import os os.system(r'start explorer.exe C:\temp') -Larry Bates Bell, Kevin wrote: I'd love to be able to open up a windows folder, like c:\temp, so that it pops up visually. I know how to drill down into a directory, but I can't figure out how to open one up on screen. Would I have to make a call to windows explorer in a similar way that I hit Excel with: from win32com.client import Dispatch Excel = Dispatch(Excel.Application) Any clues? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: how to open a windows folder? THANKS!
import os os.startfile (c:/temp) That was painless and did the trick! Thanks Tim! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
