ANN: Leo 4.4 b4 released
Leo 4.4 beta 4 is now available at: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458package_id=29106 This version fixes a long-standing MacOS bug. It is likely to be the last beta release before 4.4 rc1. This release also adds several new commands and contains a script for updating leoSettings.leo. Warning: The previous beta was not widely distributed. Please do some testing in your environment before recommending this version of Leo to others, (such as your students). Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more. See: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html The highlights of Leo 4.4: -- - An Emacs-like mini-buffer: you can now execute any command by typing its long name, with tab completion. - Many new commands, including cursor and screen movement, basic character, word and paragraph manipulation, and commands to manipulate buffers, the kill ring, regions and rectangles. You can use Leo without using a mouse. - Flexible key bindings and input modes. You can emulate the operation of Emacs, Vim, or any other editor. - A tabbed log pane. The Find and Spell Check commands now use tabs instead of dialogs, making those commands much easier to use. Plugins or scripts can easily create new tabs. The Completion tab shows possible typing completions. - Autocompletion and calltips. - Dozens of other new features and bug fixes since Leo 4.3.3. Links: -- Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html Home: http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/ Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458 CVS: http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=3458 Quotes: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html Edward Edward K. Ream email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
ANN: Pyrex 0.9.4.1
Pyrex 0.9.4.1 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/ This is a very minor update to correct a tab/space problem in the distutils extension. What is Pyrex? -- Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules. It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with all Python reference counting and error checking handled automatically. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
Re: Strategy Design Pattern
Daniel Santa Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I'm at a loss at how I can do this with Python, any pointers would be more than welcomed! Check out my homepage, www.aleax.it, you'll find several PDFs for my various presentations over the years: many have to do with DPs and Python, and I specifically addressed Strategy in a couple of them. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Activating Batch Files from Python
Jeff Groves wrote: How would I do that? As I've said, I haven't found a Python command that lets you send multiple commands to the same shell yet. If I could, my problem would be solved. any reason why you cannot create a temp .bat, consisting of: setvar.bat prog1.exe prog2.exe and then execute it form perl? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: perspective on ruby
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Edward Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact that even numeric literals are objects make me suspicious of Ruby as a general-purpose language though. Isn't Python going that way? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How should multiple (related) projects be arranged (structured) and configured so that they can share code, have a related package structure and enable proper unittesting, and ensuring no namespac
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ie does the first instance of the package a.b.c effectively mask out the others so that if a.b.c.common occurs first in the PYTHONPATH then a.b.c.project1 will never be found as the a.b.c package is only loaded from the a.b.c.common folder? By default, yes. But there's a way around this limitation: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-pkgutil.html Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: newbie OO question
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Winters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from SegmentValue import * I remember in the old days a computing support guy saying he refused to help any users with FORTRAN questions unless they had an IMPLICIT NONE in every program block. The corresponding rule nowadays would be no help to Java or Python programmers who use wildcard imports. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How can I call a python method from the XML-RPC client in Java?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have created a XML-RPC model (with server and client) written in Java. I want to call the methods in another XML-RPC model written in Python. I know that in Java, I can use like xmlrpc_client.excute(handler_name.method, param) to call the methods in my xml-rpc server written in java. But how can I call the methods in Python? I cannot creat a handler in my Python XML-RPC server. Not sure what you mean by 'creating a handler in your Python RPC server', but if you just want to use the Python XMLRPC library to make a call to an XMLRPC server, there's an example in the documentation: http://docs.python.org/lib/xmlrpc-client-example.html Hope that helps. Cheers, Guido -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Tobis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this the right room for an argument? http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~tobis/snake.png Too rigid-looking somehow. I think get rid of the straight right-angle lines. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Activating Batch Files from Python
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Groves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about sourcing it from a shell, then using that same shell instance to run the programs? How would I do that? As I've said, I haven't found a Python command that lets you send multiple commands to the same shell yet. If I could, my problem would be solved. What about os.popen? Otherwise there's the usual fork/exec thing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How can I call a python method from the XML-RPC client in Java?
On 20 Apr 2006 11:31:23 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have created a XML-RPC model (with server and client) written in Java. I want to call the methods in another XML-RPC model written in Python. I know that in Java, I can use like xmlrpc_client.excute(handler_name.method, param) to call the methods in my xml-rpc server written in java. But how can I call the methods in Python? I cannot creat a handler in my Python XML-RPC server. I'm not quite sure I understand the question. You seem to say that you have both a client and a server in Java, and Python server. That means one client and 2 servers, right? Are both servers up and running? IOW, do you have a problem to *call* the Python server from the Java client, or to *write* the Python server? Can you post some code (maybe not the full one, but a simpler version showing what you're trying to do and what does not work)? -- python -c print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in 'U(17zX(%,5.zmz5(17l8(%,5.Z*(93-965$l7+-']) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: a subprocess qns
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i wanted to start execute a command and put it in the background. i am using Unix. Usually i start this command using something like this : /path/somecmd with the to put it to background. Even if it's in the background with , it is still liable to get killed with a SIGHUP signal when you log off. To stop this, you need to make sure the process is in its own process session group, by using the setsid system call. Not sure if there's any standard Python binding for this: but there is a setsid command that you could use from the shell. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: py.test munging strings in asserts?
Timothy Grant wrote: granted the left side of that equality could be messed up due to create_output() NOT doing the right thing. But the right side is simply the contents of the variable text so WHY is the first part of the path being substituted with ...? Some grepping on '...' revealed that there's some string munging going on in py/code/safe_repr.py, In py/test/terminal/terminal.py, in TerminalSession, there's a method 'repr_locals' that uses it, I guess you have to override that or something if you want to change this behaviour... Cheers, Guido Wesdorp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT: Mozart (was Re: perspective on ruby)
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Alex Martelli wrote: Edward Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... course in C++ doesn't cut it, the curriculum should either use different languages fitted to each task or emphasize a single language with broad abilities (picking the best programming model for each task). Java is The only single language I could see fitting that role is Mozart, deliberately designed to be SUPER-multi-paradigm -- not even Lisp and Scheme (the only real competition) can compare. I agree that Mozart/Oz is probably the most ambitiously multi-paradigm language out there, and anyone interested in some real mind expansion should really check out the excellent book, Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming by Peter Van Roy and Seif Haridi. However, my impression of Mozart/Oz so far can be summed up like this: You can have any paradigm you want, as long as it's concurrent. The degree to which out-parameters are used (in the form of dataflow variables) is very unusual for OO or FP, and this is a source of both amazement and confusion for me. It's clearly possible to program in many styles, but you still need to adapt your thinking to the Mozart way. Also worth a mention is Alice ML, which runs on the Mozart system but is statically typed, type-inferred, very similar to SML but with concurrency support (lazies and futures), typesafe marshalling, and packages, which allow for dynamically-typed interfaces between modules. -- .:[ dave benjamin -( ramen/sp00 )- http://spoomusic.com/ ]:. one man's constant is another man's variable - alan perlis -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python-mysql on Windows -- How to?
Can anybody provide any guidance on what I will need to do get mysql-python setup on my win xp workstation? I have Mysql 4.1 installed and activepython 2.4.3 installed. What do I need to do to install/setup mysql-python? Thanks. Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Strategy Design Pattern
Daniel Santa Cruz wrote: Hello all, I've been trying to go over my OO Patterns book, and I decided to try to implement them in Python this time around. I figured this would help me learn the language better. I guess it might help clarifying what OO is about since you see what happens when you try to transform solutions across languages with very different type systems. Well, I've gotten stuck with my first go at OO patterns with Python. I guess it goes without say that some of the stuff that are taken for granted in most of the books (ie. Interfaces, Abstract classes) don't really apply to Python per say, but the idea behind the patterns can be extracted out still. In the specific case of the Strategy pattern, I think the goal is to abstract out of the class an algorithm that can then be reused by some of the inherited classes. This way we don't repeat ourselves. Maybe I got this all wrong... Well, yes, I disagree ;) From my point of view the StrategyPattern is used to decouple the consumer/client/user of an algorithm from it's implementation. If you need variations of the implementation of your algo you don't want variations in the user. It's not about a tower of abstractions in the Strategy itself. Those abstractions are there for the purpose of enabling polymorphism. If you want a straightforward translation you start with a Strategy class and derive strategies from it: class Strategy(object): def Evaluate(self): raise NotImplementedError# making it abstract class StrategyA(Strategy): def Evaluate(self): print Evaluate StrategyA class StrategyB(Strategy): def Evaluate(self): print Evaluate StrategyB This is very clean OO but you don't actually need the Strategy base class because Pythons type system does not enforce a well known type at compile time. In some sense also the StrategyX classes are overhead because you can pass the Evaluate methods directly to the consumer: functions are always first class objects. So the Strategy might be reduced to: def EvaluateA(self): print Evaluate StrategyA def EvaluateB(self): print Evaluate StrategyB def consumer(evaluate): evaluate() consumer(EvaluateB) Evaluate StrategyB -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Property In Python
Hi, I want to know how we can write Properties in Pyhton.Any one knows good doc for this one? Thanks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Property In Python
class person(object): def _get_age(self): return self.__age age = property(_get_age) # a read-only property def _get_name(self): return self.__name def _set_name(self, value): self.__name = value name = property(_get_name, _set_name) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: a subprocess qns
On 2006-04-21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi i wanted to start execute a command and put it in the background. i am using Unix. If you use subprocess, or even os.spawn, it should be portable and work on all systems (although the docs list some restrictions). Usually i start this command using something like this : /path/somecmd with the to put it to background. You can still do that: os.system(/bin/mycmd ), or use subprocess.Popen with True in its shell parameter. os.system invokes the shell, so this is not portable-- you must have a shell in which means what you want (it works at least on bash and probably on some other Unix shells). i looked at the subprocess module docs and came across this statement Replacing os.spawn* --- P_NOWAIT example: pid = os.spawnlp(os.P_NOWAIT, /bin/mycmd, mycmd, myarg) == pid = Popen([/bin/mycmd, myarg]).pid Can i ask if P_NOWAIT means the same as ?? so if it is, then this statement I think it does. pid = os.spawnlp(os.P_NOWAIT, /bin/mycmd, mycmd, myarg) will put mycmd into background and return to the caller...? Should do. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Strategy Design Pattern
Daniel Santa Cruz wrote: Well, I've gotten stuck with my first go at OO patterns with Python. I guess it goes without say that some of the stuff that are taken for granted in most of the books (ie. Interfaces, Abstract classes) don't really apply to Python per say, but the idea behind the patterns can be extracted out still. In the original Design Patterns book, the authors pointed out that although patterns are generally language-agnostic, the need for formalised patterns to achieve a given goal is not. One example is inheritance - if you're programming in C then you'd need a formal pattern to model inheritance effectively, but in many other languages it's built in. It may be the case that Python gives you the tools to make some other patterns effectively redundant. In the specific case of the Strategy pattern, I think the goal is to abstract out of the class an algorithm that can then be reused by some of the inherited classes. This way we don't repeat ourselves. Maybe I got this all wrong... The goal is to allow an object to have a certain behaviour which uses an algorithm you can change by changing the object that performs that algorithm. It essentially means you can change the algorithm later without changing the object. In Python, this is quite simple - decide upon an interface that the algorithm should provide, and then assign an object that implements that interface to your object. The object will then pass its data to the interface methods on whichever algorithm object it's been given. To aid commenters... we can use the example used in Head First Design Patterns. I've implemented this simple patter in Java and .NET... now in python. I can't draw UML here, so I'll try to pseudo talk what the example has: Abstract Base Class: Duck + FlyBehavior _fly + swim() + fly() - calls _fly.fly() Interface: FlyBehavior + fly() Concrete Interface FlyHigh (implements FlyBehavior): + fly() Concrete Class Duck1 (Inherits Duck): + Constructor: _fly = new FlyHigh() In this example, you can just assign a FlyHigh function to your Duck1 - no Duck or FlyBehavior classes needed. The pattern is almost pointless in situations like this when your language allows you to quickly and easily assign functions between objects. However if, as is common, you need more than 1 function in the interface, you can put them in an object and assign that. class FlyHigh(object): def TakeOff(self, bird): print take off to fly high def Land(self, bird): print land from flying high class FlyLow(object): def TakeOff(self, bird): print take off to fly low def Land(self, bird): print land from flying low class Duck(object): def __init__(self, flyingBehavior): self.flyBehavior = flyingBehavior def TakeOff(self): self.flyBehavior.TakeOff(self) def Land(self): self.flyBehavior.Land(self) lowFlyingDuck = Duck(FlyLow()) highFlyingDuck = Duck(FlyHigh()) Note that I don't claim the above code is necessarily optimal (or even correct!) but it should show that half of the Strategy pattern boilerplate is unnecessary in Python. You can even use certain Python tricks to automatically delegate calls on Duck to the behavior classes without typing those out individually, for example. -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Strategy Design Pattern
Daniel Santa Cruz wrote: Hello all, I've been trying to go over my OO Patterns book, and I decided to try to implement them in Python this time around. I figured this would help me learn the language better. Well, I've gotten stuck with my first go at OO patterns with Python. I guess it goes without say that some of the stuff that are taken for granted in most of the books (ie. Interfaces, Abstract classes) don't really apply to Python per say, but the idea behind the patterns can be extracted out still. In the specific case of the Strategy pattern, I think the goal is to abstract out of the class an algorithm that can then be reused by some of the inherited classes. This way we don't repeat ourselves. Maybe I got this all wrong... I'm at a loss at how I can do this with Python, any pointers would be more than welcomed! This is my understanding of the Strategy Pattern: (Perhaps I have a SudokuSolver class that will solve *any* Sudoku puzzle, but it's very slow for simple puzzles because of some unavoidable overhead related only to the more difficult puzzles - so I want to try a simpler but faster method first, if it doesn't succeed then use the more complex method.) class SudokuGrid(object): def __init__(self, solver=None): self.grid = [[-1]*9]*9 if solver is not None: self.solver = solver else: self.solver = SimpleSudokuSolver() def solve(self): self.solver.sudoku = self self.solver.solve() class SimpleSudokuSolver(object): sudoku = None def solve(self): print 'solving %s ...simple algorithm...' % repr(self.sudoku) class DifficultSudokuSolver(object): sudoku = None def solve(self): print 'solving %s ...difficult algorithm...' % repr(self.sudoku) s = SudokuGrid() s.solve() s.solver = DifficultSudokuSolver() s.solve() solving __main__.SudokuGrid object at 0x0117D390 ...simple algorithm... solving __main__.SudokuGrid object at 0x0117D390 ...difficult algorithm... HTH Gerard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How should multiple (related) projects be arranged (structured) and configured so that they can share code, have a related package structure and enable proper unittesting, and ensuring no namespac
alisonken1 wrote:
As to the question fail to see how version control relates to
code/test separation, the original poster asked several questions, one
of which was production/testing code separation.
Along with the separation (so while you're testing new functionality,
you don't break production files), a properly setup CVS allows you to
do this by importing files from a production branch into your testing
branch
Ok, get it - you're talking about branching, when the OP talked about
unit testing, which is something totally different.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
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Re: search files in a directory
Gary Herron wrote:
david brochu jr wrote:
Hello,
I need to open every file in a directory and search for a string. What
module is needed to do this and how would I go about searching each file?
[bash] find /path/to/dir -exec grep -le searched string {} \;
Ho, you meant : doing this in Python ?-)
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
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Re: Property In Python
print property.__doc__ property(fget=None, fset=None, fdel=None, doc=None) - property attribute fget is a function to be used for getting an attribute value, and likewise fset is a function for setting, and fdel a function for del'ing, an attribute. Typical use is to define a managed attribute x: class C(object): def getx(self): return self.__x def setx(self, value): self.__x = value def delx(self): del self.__x x = property(getx, setx, delx, I'm the 'x' property.) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Strategy Design Pattern
Daniel Santa Cruz wrote:
Hello all,
I've been trying to go over my OO Patterns book, and I decided to try
to implement them in Python this time around. I figured this would
help me learn the language better.
Well, I've gotten stuck with my first go at OO patterns with Python. I
guess it goes without say that some of the stuff that are taken for
granted in most of the books (ie. Interfaces, Abstract classes) don't
really apply to Python per say, but the idea behind the patterns can be
extracted out still.
A good part of the GoF patterns are meant to add flexibility to static
languages - translating them directly in a dynamic language may not be
such a good idea. Regarding abstract base classes (Java's interfaces
being a special case of abc), they are mostly used in static languages
to provide support for polymorphic dispatch. This is not needed in
Python, where polymorphic dispatch is not tied to inheritance.
FWIW, it's still possible to have abc in Python:
class Abc(object):
def abstractMethod(self, args):
raise NotImplementedError(Abc is an abstract class)
In the specific case of the Strategy pattern, I
think the goal is to abstract out of the class an algorithm that can
then be reused by some of the inherited classes. This way we don't
repeat ourselves. Maybe I got this all wrong...
The first part (abstract an algorithm out of the class) is ok. The real
goal is to allow to dynamically select the algorithm to use based on
runtime conditions (ie: user prefs, platform-specific stuff, size of a
file, phase of the moon, whatnot...).
I'm at a loss at how I can do this with Python, any pointers would be
more than welcomed!
Hint 1: Python's functions are objects
Hint 2: Dynamically attaching a method to an object (ie : not to the
whole class) is easy as pie (search this group...).
Hint 3: Any object having a __call__() method is callable.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
threading, how to?
Hi, I am trying to understand how to use threading in Python. I get threading as a concept, but not the implementation. In order to start threading, do you call it as a separate function, which will then be applied to the rest of the code (functions) or do you open threading in each function. This all can probably be answered by 'How python threads different functions'? Hope if somebody can drop me a few lines. I've been trying with different tutorials, but still do not understand. Cheers, Stevan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the whole 'batteries included' idea
John Salerno wrote: Pardon my naivety, you would think maybe I'd understand this by now, but I've always kind of wondered about it. I've been curious why one of the biggest points used to promote Python is that it has batteries included. True, this is a great feature, but the way it's been used seems to suggest that other languages *don't* have this benefit. And maybe they don't, in their own way. So my question is, what is the difference between Python's 'batteries' (standard modules), and C#'s framework? I can't speak for C#'s framework but Python has a lot of modules that other languages may not, such as zip/bzip archive handling, unit testing, database interface modules, pretty much any network protocol you might need, both types of XML handling, etc. For many tasks, it's complete as-is, and that's a point worth selling. I don't think it's as good as some people make out, though. Multimedia support is poor - OpenGL support should have gone in many, many versions ago, and presumably one of the trillion incarnations of libraries for fast mathematics should have gone in too in order to enable that. PyGame could possibly have gone in too (not sure about the license however). -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Thanks from the Java Developer
Alex Martelli wrote: Ant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Python ruined my life. Python ruined me for Java coding too. At least in the Bay Area, the jobmarket for Python programmers is wild, right now -- firms such as Google, Pixar, BitTorrent, IronPort, etc, etc, all hungry for Pythonistas -- BayPIGgies mailing list bitching over too many job-offer posts, and the nuisance of all those recruiters haunting our monthly meetings and how much time they take, ...!!! Hmm...eagerly awaiting this phenomenon to reach the Boston area. Python seems to be mostly used for QA around here. Kent -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
Sorry dude, but it looks like a hairdryer! Imagine it at 16x16 pixels or smaller, and it'll look like little more than a circle with two sticks. The current image scales well. I think that the current logo is fine. Much more professional than the old image. The + formation is positive enough, and it has a yin-yang feel to it which to me conjures up the image of balance, not divisiveness. JM2PW -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: threading, how to?
akrapus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, I am trying to understand how to use threading in Python. I get threading as a concept, but not the implementation. In order to start threading, do you call it as a separate function, which will then be applied to the rest of the code (functions) or do you open threading in each function. This all can probably be answered by 'How python threads different functions'? Python doesn't automatically thread anything. Threading in Python is manual. The idea is that you run your own function in a separate thread of execution that you create. All the functions that you call from the mentioned function (and those that they call, etc.) will then run in those thread of execution. You can create as many threads (probably up to some limit) as you wish and call either the same function from them, or different functions, depending on your application requirements. -- Sergei. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
That's basically the idea...
Often i find myself annotating what variables actually stand for, so to
refer back to the code in half a year or so.
# check if ID's or coords
self.pointIDs = ptIDs
self.coords = [tuple(RS.PointCoordinates(i)) for i in ptIDs]
# map ids/coords and coords/ids
self.pointID_2_Coord, self.coord_2_pointID = {}, {}
for id, coord in zip(self.pointIDs,self.coords):
self.coord_2_pointID[coord] = id
self.pointID_2_Coord[id]= coord
# initiate kdtree
self.kdTREE = kdtree.kdtree(3)
for i in self.coords:
self.kdTREE.addPoint(i)
# break down interfaceCrvID
self.segments = list(RS.ExplodeCurves(interfaceCrvID))
# dictionary with a midpoint for each segment
self.segmentCoords = {}
for i in self.segments:
self.segmentCoords[i] = list(RS.CurveMidPoint(i))
and so on...
Please don't say that naming variables properly suffices for any
skilled programmer... really...
When programming a more complex class, it would be quite helpful that
these annotations would pop-up as a docstring.
Often I find myself referring back to a module containing the class to
read back what data the variable holds exactly. A time consuming
activity that could be seriously sped up by a proper IDE
(I'm on SPE, thanks Stani!)
Would that make sense to anyone?
cheers,
-jelle
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: threading, how to?
Thanks for reply. So would it be implemented as follows: Func 1 Func 2 Func 3 Thread for Func 1 Thread for Func 2 Thread for Func 3 Cheers Stevan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: threading, how to?
akrapus wrote: Thanks for reply. So would it be implemented as follows: Func 1 Func 2 Func 3 Thread for Func 1 Thread for Func 2 Thread for Func 3 Could be, but the you woul most probably subclass threading.Thread and override the run-method. However, often it is done like this: def some_threaded_function(): while though_shalt_work(): do_work() for i in xrange(THRAD_NUM): t = threading.Thread(target=some_threaded_function) t.start() Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: threading, how to?
akrapus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for reply. So would it be implemented as follows: Func 1 Func 2 Func 3 Thread for Func 1 Thread for Func 2 Thread for Func 3 Yes, if you wish to run every of your 3 functions in a separate thread. -- Sergei. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
jelle wrote: That's basically the idea... Often i find myself annotating what variables actually stand for, so to refer back to the code in half a year or so. # check if ID's or coords self.pointIDs = ptIDs self.coords = [tuple(RS.PointCoordinates(i)) for i in ptIDs] You aren't annotating variables - you describe what the next lines are supposed to do, possibly involving new variables. Nothing new here... I don't know for sure what you mean by pop up as doc-string - I guess you want them magically merged into the functions doc string, at least inside your editor? That sure could be done - but I personally don't think that is too useful. Because you lose context. It might be that a particular comment only applies inside an if-statement. So at least indention should be preserved. But then - why not just look at the source... IMHO commenting the parameters and results of a function is what someone needs who skims the docs for enlightenment. I don't care _how_ a function works, but _what_ it does. If I need the former, there is nothing that works beside looking at the source - of course good comments ease the task of understanding what's going on. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Joining stdout stderr of subprocess ?
when I run a command myapp 21 yet: #!python print os.popen(myapp 21).read() the stderr stuff comes all after the stdout stuff. How can I get ahold of all the out and err joined synchronously in the order, it is created ? robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a programming resource for newbees
bambooforest wrote:
Hi all,
I'm from a Linguistics background and am new(er) to programming. Could
someone recommend a book or resource that teaches programming aspects
with Python? Python I hear is a very appropriate language for handling
text and language processing.
You may want to have a look at David Mertz's Text Processing in Python
I'm searching for a resource that examines programming from a case
study like perspective. Such as, you're faced with problem of type X -
and here's how you should look at it to break it down to form an
optimal solution (e.g. because this type or problem is handled well
with this type of data structure, etc.).
I've looked at the online Python tutorial at python.org and resources
like O'Reilly's Python in a Nutshell, but they seem to teach you
language syntax and concepts like data types, or assume you already
know how to program. I'm searching for something that teaches
programming.
Learning to program usually imply learning the syntax and concepts of at
least one language.
Like with natural languages, there are some concepts that are difficult
if not impossible to express in some languages - so sometime you need to
learn a new language if you want to grasp the concept. Some other
concepts you'll find, one way of another, in almost any language, so for
more advanced books/tutorials/whatever, knowledge of these concepts is a
prerequisite - just like a book on grammar suppose that the reader knows
at least how to read and write, what's a verb, a sentence, a word, etc...
Also, like natural languages, programming languages also have idioms,
and learning these idioms is a non-trivial part of learning a language.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: send cookie on request with urllib2
ok. i will explain what exactly i wanna do. i want to simulate the following client-side script with python: body img name=Pic script document.cookie=name=tom; document.images[Pic].src=temp2.html /script what that happen here, is when this page loading, the browser loads temp2.html with HTTP header: Cookie: name=tom; this cookie does not come for the server, this is temporary cookie that sending from the client to the server. this cookie doesnt save on disk at all. is it possible to implements this at python?? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-mysql on Windows -- How to?
Chris, I'm no expert, but this keeps coming up and the last several people have had better luck with mxODBC. http://tinyurl.com/fmp3y But if you're set on MySql-Python someone will jump in to help. rick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: threading, how to?
akrapus wrote: Thanks for reply. So would it be implemented as follows: Func 1 Func 2 Func 3 Thread for Func 1 Thread for Func 2 Thread for Func 3 Cheers Stevan Here's how I'm doing it, using the thread module (there's a higher level class-based module: threading, but I'm more comfortable with the simple one): import thread, time class ThreadDemo: def __init__(self): self.data = [] self.lock = thread.allocate_lock() self.alive = False def Start(self): self.alive = True thread.start_new_thread(self.Process, (None,)) def Stop(self): self.alive = False def Process(self, dummy=None): while self.alive: self.lock.acquire() self.data.sort() self.lock.release() time.sleep(0.05) def Add(self, value): self.lock.acquire() self.data.append(value) self.lock.release() from ThreadDemo import ThreadDemo demo = ThreadDemo() demo.Start() demo.Add(1) demo.Add(5) demo.Add(2) demo.data [1, 2, 5] demo.Add(3) demo.data [1, 2, 3, 5] demo.Stop() demo.Add(4) demo.data [1, 2, 3, 5, 4] Use the lock whenever you are going to modify data which is shared between more than one thread. Using time.sleep stops the thread from hogging CPU cycles. You only need to sleep a few milliseconds. The thread will clean itself up as soon as it's function (in this case Process) finishes. The ugly (None,) tuple in the start_new_thread / dummy=None Process parameter are because the start_new_thread function demands a tuple of arguments, even when none are required. see http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-thread.html for more info. Iain -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: threading, how to?
Here's a recipe I used a lot: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65448 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PyLint 0.11 / astng 0.16
It does. In my case I'm thinking of embedding pylint to check user scripts which are written in python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: proposed Python logo
How about having something from Monty Python in the logo rather than something snakelike. Python was named after Monty Python and not the snake. Snakes also don't appear friendly to me. I used to have rats as pets. Snakes are murderers of rats. Which I do find strange that there is a rat on the cover of Learning Python by Oreilly but a Python snake on the Progamming Python by Oreilly book. I think something from Monty Python (I haven't watched it recently to know what would be ideal) would be more appropriate than an ugly reptile which is usually associated with evil and our reason for leaving the Garden of Eden. (Take me serious or not, I don't care, this is just my opinion, but with a little humor.) Thanks in advance: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ant Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 6:31 AM To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: proposed Python logo Sorry dude, but it looks like a hairdryer! Imagine it at 16x16 pixels or smaller, and it'll look like little more than a circle with two sticks. The current image scales well. I think that the current logo is fine. Much more professional than the old image. The + formation is positive enough, and it has a yin-yang feel to it which to me conjures up the image of balance, not divisiveness. JM2PW I would like to see a Python Logo -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
BackgroundCall as Pythonic Thread - Re: threading, how to?
akrapus wrote: Hi, I am trying to understand how to use threading in Python. I get threading as a concept, but not the implementation. In order to start threading, do you call it as a separate function, which will then be applied to the rest of the code (functions) or do you open threading in each function. This all can probably be answered by 'How python threads different functions'? Hope if somebody can drop me a few lines. I've been trying with different tutorials, but still do not understand. It think many Python newcomers have similar questions (and confusion worries about those other answers). Maybe thats because they bought the thread/threading.Thread/Queue stuff and confusion from Java, C++ and that like.( And even encourages that throw-and-pray .join() This recipe offers BackgroundCall, which (example) you can probably understand fuildly within a second: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/491280 Thus, you could forget about the technical term thread. As you write yoursef ..call it as a separate function..: Thats how (new) Python programmers think naturally ? -robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Pyrr 0.1 - Lexer and LR(1)-Parser Generator for Python
Hi list!
Not long ago I was looking for an easy to use, but powerful parser and lexer
generating tool for Python, and to my dismay, I found quite a number of
Python projects implementing an (LA)LR(1) parser generator, but none of them
seemed quite finished, or even pythonic.
As I required a parser generator for Python for one of my work projects, I set
out to write (yet another one), and currently am at (release-)version 0.1 for
Pyrr.ltk and ptk.
An example for Pyrr.ltk and ptk usage implementing a (very) simple calculator:
# -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
from ltk import LexerBase, IgnoreMatch
from ptk import ParserBase
from operator import add, sub, mul, div
class NumLexer(LexerBase):
def number(self,value):
number - r/[0-9]+/
return float(value)
def ws(self,*args):
ws - r/\\s+/
raise IgnoreMatch
def ops(self,op):
addop - /+/
- /-/
mulop - /*/
- r/\\//
return op
class NumParser(ParserBase):
/mulop/: left
/addop/: left
__start__ = term
def term(self,value1,op,value2):
term - term /addop/ term
- term /mulop/ term
return {+:add,-:sub,*:mul,/:div}[op](value1,value2)
def value(self,value):
term - /number/
return value
print NumParser.parse(NumLexer.tokenize(3 + 4 - 123 / 23))
Grammar rules and lexemes are specified in docstrings, where lines not
matching a definition of a rule or lexeme are ignored. The resulting lexer
and parser class is, thus, very much self-documenting, which was one of my
biggest goals for the project.
I'm currently in the process of writing documentation for both packages (and
especially documenting the extensions to BNF-grammars that Pyrr.ptk allows,
such as your usual RE-operators ?, *, + and {x,y}, and forward arguments, and
documenting the stateful lexer support that Pyrr.ltk implements), but I
thought that I'd release early and often, so that people interested in this
project might have a look at it now to input suggestions and extensions that
they'd like me to add to make this a fully featured Python parser generating
toolkit which might be offered as a Python package.
Anyway, the sources can be downloaded (via subversion) from:
http://svn.modelnine.org/svn/Pyrr/trunk
where I'll check in the documentation that I've written so far and a Python
distutils distribution over the weekend, and make sure that I don't check in
brocken code from now on. And, Pyrr.* is Python 2.4 only at the moment, and I
have no plans to make it backwards-compatible, but if you're interested in
backporting it, feel free to mail me patches.
--- Heiko.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python equivalent of VB code sample
Situation is this: 1) must write application that does the following: a) creates an xml document, the contents of which, is a request transaction b) send xml document to destination; I am assuming that a process at destination side processes the request and sends back a response c) the application I'm writing must receive response and then examine contents of response 2) hope to write client application in python 3) was provided VB code sample that does steps 1a, 1b and 1c; the sample code is: ' section of code that builds the string sXML; the contents of which is a request transaction set objXML = Server.CreateObject(MSXML2.ServerXMLHTTP) 'Bank table image address field, location of Comm Admin. sServer = Session(ImageAddress) 'NT AUTH ' note: I believe the next 2 lines in this post are really one line in VB code that wrapped ' because they didn't fit on one line in the post objXML.open POST,sServer,false,Session(WebServerUserAuth),Session(WebServerPassword) objXML.send sXML sXMLRs = objXML.responseText It appears as though much of the work is handled within methods and properties of the objXML object: a) the open method appears to establish the connection with the destination side b) the send method appears to handle both sending the request and not returning control back to program until a response has been provided c) the .responseText property appears to be the contents of the response My questions are: 1) is it possible to develop a python script that does the equivalent of the code sample above? 2) is the code sample above an example of what's referred to as an 'HTTP POST'? 3) I looked in the python documentation that describes urllib, urllib2 and httplib; am I looking in the right place? 4) are there other places I should be looking, particularly if I am seeking samples of python code that are functionally similar to the sample code above? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Joining stdout stderr of subprocess ?
robert wrote: when I run a command myapp 21 [ I guess you meant to say here that the stdout, stderr output was interleaved ] yet: #!python print os.popen(myapp 21).read() the stderr stuff comes all after the stdout stuff. How can I get ahold of all the out and err joined synchronously in the order, it is created ? I think what is happening here is that in the first case the output is to a terminal, so myapp doesn't buffer its output. In the second case the output isn't going to a terminal so myapp is buffering it and only produces output when the buffer is full. Probably there isn't sufficient stderr output to force any out until myapp terminates, so you get it all at the end. Probably the only way to get the output interleaved is to change myapp so that it doesn't buffer its output or so it sends all of its output to a single stream. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: quick surface plots
Thanks folks... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How should multiple (related) projects be arranged (structured) and configured so that they can share code, have a related package structure and enable proper unittesting, and ensuring no namespac
COMMONsrca.b.c.commontesta.b.c.common Ok, first thing... it won't work becaus as soon as python finds the first a.b.c.common it will bail on the other... That's the default approach for java, becase it will give you access to module-level things declared as 'default', that otherwise you wouldn't have access (in python all are grown-ups, so that's not necessary) and it won't bail out in the first match. So, in python, you'd probably do something as: test/test.a.b.c.common or create a tests dir as src/a.b.c.common.tests (I guess there are other solutions, but those 2 seem more appealing to me -- coming from a java background). I believe you'd be able to keep that structure and play with the pythonpath if you wanted, but it could be too brittle in the end, and lead to hard-to-discover problems.Cheers,Fabio -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Joining stdout stderr of subprocess ?
robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R) wrote: R when I run a command R myapp 21 R yet: R #!python R print os.popen(myapp 21).read() R the stderr stuff comes all after the stdout stuff. R How can I get ahold of all the out and err joined synchronously in the R order, it is created ? Make sure that myapp writes it synchronously. Probably myapp has it buffered, so it writes out at the end of the run. It is not caused by python. -- Piet van Oostrum [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
---I don't know for sure what you mean by pop up as doc-string - I guess you want them magically merged into the functions doc string, at least inside your editor? That sure could be done - but I personally don't think that is too useful. Because you lose context.--- point taken. perhaps only variables declared in the __init__ should be made available as a doc string. ---IMHO commenting the parameters and results of a function is what someone needs who skims the docs for enlightenment--- these are two completely different things: f = instanceSomeClass() - 'pops up the __init__ doc string in your IDE' now, when this class is instanced, i think this could be useful: f.someComplexMethod - 'pops up the variable docstring' I'm all for DRY -dont repeat yourself-, but DHORYEBNPTMTRYCEBPTSWTITDS -don't have others repeat your efforts by not providing the means to reuse your code efficiently by providing them sparsely with the information to do so- could have some place in complex classes that are often subclassed. having the right information at the right time to do so would be quite a help. be fair: do you perfectly well know how to subclass a class without (extensively) reading it back? perhaps a variable doc here and there would make this slightly easier. -jelle -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
Michael Yanowitz wrote: How about having something from Monty Python in the logo rather than something snakelike. Python was named after Monty Python and not the snake. Snakes also don't appear friendly to me. I used to have rats as pets. Snakes are murderers of rats. Which I Never mind rats, have you seen the Google ads for this thread? http://www.salfordadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/211/211961_goodness_snake.html http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16959435method=fullsiteid=66633headline=python-back-on-the-telly--name_page.html !!!-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python equivalent of VB code sample
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Situation is this:
1) must write application that does the following:
a) creates an xml document, the contents of which, is a request
transaction
b) send xml document to destination; I am assuming that a process
at destination side processes the request and sends back a response
c) the application I'm writing must receive response and then
examine contents of response
2) hope to write client application in python
3) was provided VB code sample that does steps 1a, 1b and 1c; the
sample code is:
' section of code that builds the string sXML; the contents of which
is a request transaction
set objXML = Server.CreateObject(MSXML2.ServerXMLHTTP)
'Bank table image address field, location of Comm Admin.
sServer = Session(ImageAddress)
'NT AUTH
' note: I believe the next 2 lines in this post are really one line in
VB code that wrapped
' because they didn't fit on one line in the post
objXML.open
POST,sServer,false,Session(WebServerUserAuth),Session(WebServerPassword)
objXML.send sXML
sXMLRs = objXML.responseText
This code is dealing with XMLHTTP request.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
Docstrings for variables seems a new interesting idea to me, but I don't know how much useful it can be. Do you mean something like this? rcar_speed = 25 print rcar_speed 25 print rcar_speed.__doc__ int(x[, base]) - integer ... rcar_speed.__ndoc__ = Speed of the red car, km/h ... Can you show me some examples of its possible usefulness? Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
No matter what you do, Python is going to sum up the image of a powerful snake. I suppose you could change the name to Monty, if you wanted more humor and more of a reference to Monty Python, or maybe Bring Out Your Dead. Personally I like the snake associations and the notion that you're joining a cult where everybody speaks in Parseltongue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priori_Incantatem#Speaking_parseltongue rd -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Read and extract text from pdf
Hi, I have a problem :), I just want to extract text from pdf file with python. There is differents libraries for that but it doesn't work... pyPdf and pdfTools, I don't know why but it doesn't works with some pdf... For example space chars are delete in the text.. Pdf playground : I don't understand how it work. If you have an idea, a tutorial, a library or anything who can help me to do that. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
jelle wrote: ---I don't know for sure what you mean by pop up as doc-string - I guess you want them magically merged into the functions doc string, at least inside your editor? That sure could be done - but I personally don't think that is too useful. Because you lose context.--- point taken. perhaps only variables declared in the __init__ should be made available as a doc string. ---IMHO commenting the parameters and results of a function is what someone needs who skims the docs for enlightenment--- On a related note: for someone who's goal is more clarity in coding, your style of quoting is thwarting that efforts. these are two completely different things: f = instanceSomeClass() - 'pops up the __init__ doc string in your IDE' now, when this class is instanced, i think this could be useful: f.someComplexMethod - 'pops up the variable docstring' I feared that you meant that - but wasn't sure. This is one of the often-requested-yet-they-will-never-come features of IDEs for python, as this would mean that you'd have type-information available on f. Consider this simple example: f = someRandomlyInstatiatedObject() Now what is e.g. f.C-space to show? Additionally, if you typed f.foo yourself, is it foo of Foo, or foo of FooSubclass, or foo of the totally unrelated Badabum? I'm all for DRY -dont repeat yourself-, but DHORYEBNPTMTRYCEBPTSWTITDS -don't have others repeat your efforts by not providing the means to reuse your code efficiently by providing them sparsely with the information to do so- could have some place in complex classes that are often subclassed. having the right information at the right time to do so would be quite a help. This is sort of a tautology and applies to pretty much everything in life :) be fair: do you perfectly well know how to subclass a class without (extensively) reading it back? Sure you have to. but then you read the source. perhaps a variable doc here and there would make this slightly easier. I'm still not seeing what you are really after. Python has no variable declarations, so there is no natural point to put these, as it is e.g. in JAVA. Gathering inline comments by some heuristics like the following statement has a assignment might be feasible to implement, yet I fail to see the usefulness for that, at least for methods in general. The exception from this would be the constructor, as sensible design usually makes all instance variables known there - so something that mangles def __init__(self): # know where your foo is self.foo = 'here' might be of interest. But then - it often enough happens that in some method after some obscure logic some instance variable gets created. Don't get me wrong: I'm all in favor of commenting code. But your wish for semi-automatic doc-generation doesn't appeal to me. Now as I'm not the one and only one to decide about this, if you come up with a reasonable proposal how to document variables how to make this available (in way more technical terms than just wouldn't it be nice to have) you might convince some IDE-authors to adopt I gues. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Read and extract text from pdf
Julien ARNOUX: I have a problem :), I just want to extract text from pdf file with python. There is differents libraries for that but it doesn't work... pyPdf and pdfTools, I don't know why but it doesn't works with some pdf... Text can be represented in different ways in PDF: as tagged text, bitmap and vector images, and even algorithms (IIRC). Most tools will only be able to retrieve text represented as tagged text. So some tools may work on some texts in some files and fail on others. -- René Pijlman Wat wil jij leren? http://www.leren.nl -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ;)
Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? wildemar -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Leo 4.4 b4 released
Leo 4.4 beta 4 is now available at: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458package_id=29106 This version fixes a long-standing MacOS bug. It is likely to be the last beta release before 4.4 rc1. This release also adds several new commands and contains a script for updating leoSettings.leo. Warning: The previous beta was not widely distributed. Please do some testing in your environment before recommending this version of Leo to others, (such as your students). Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more. See: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html The highlights of Leo 4.4: -- - An Emacs-like mini-buffer: you can now execute any command by typing its long name, with tab completion. - Many new commands, including cursor and screen movement, basic character, word and paragraph manipulation, and commands to manipulate buffers, the kill ring, regions and rectangles. You can use Leo without using a mouse. - Flexible key bindings and input modes. You can emulate the operation of Emacs, Vim, or any other editor. - A tabbed log pane. The Find and Spell Check commands now use tabs instead of dialogs, making those commands much easier to use. Plugins or scripts can easily create new tabs. The Completion tab shows possible typing completions. - Autocompletion and calltips. - Dozens of other new features and bug fixes since Leo 4.3.3. Links: -- Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html Home: http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/ Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458 CVS: http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=3458 Quotes: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html Edward Edward K. Ream email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leo 4.4 b4 released
Correction: Leo's cvs repository has been moved to tigris: http://leo.tigris.org/source/browse/leo/ Edward Edward K. Ream email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
didn't you just do that ;') such variables docstrings would help one to speed up understanding an API, and more importantly, could reduce assumptions you make on what a variable means. who's the mother of assumptions again? i'm not evangalizing at all that each and every variable should be documented! but one cannot deny there is a certain degree of entropy in the understanding of classes you even wrote yourself. so variables docstrings could be very helpful notes to oneself and others. imagine you wrote a python script that runs a FEM simlation overnight, relating drag to speed. rcar.speed - 'resulting velocity to rcar.drag' these little notes could help you not to make the same false assumption you've overcome a year ago, and are likely to make again. also in cases (most) where you are not the sole operator on a class, these little hints can be appreciated. a variables doctring should never be longer than 2 lines to be any good likely. ok. 3 -jelle -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], jelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When programming a more complex class, it would be quite helpful that these annotations would pop-up as a docstring. I'm currently working with a OO database system that lets you attach a doc string not just to classes, but also to attributes, relationships, pretty much anything. It's very useful. That being said, I'm not sure how such a thing would work in Python. In what I'm used to, the doc strings are attached to the variable declarations in the class definition, so there's just one copy of the string per class. Python doesn't work that way. In Python, if I were to write: class GeographicCoordinate: def __init__ (self, lat, long): self.lat = lat Latitude in degrees (positive North), per WGS84 self.long = long Longitude in degrees (positive West), per WGS84 each *instance* of GeographicCoordinate gets a self.lat and a self.long created in it, with no relationship between the attributes of one instance and another. Where would the doc strings go? The only logical place would be to have one copy per instance, which would be very wasteful. On the other hand, since strings get interned, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. On the third hand, I guess the doc strings could get attached to the class's __slots__, which would immediately lead to more but that's not what __slots__ was intended for arguments :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? wildemar 1. One of the strenght of Python is that it does not try to be particularly original, most of the times it just borrows the good features from other languages without borrowing the warts. 2. If you ask in a Lisp newsgroup, they will tell you that they invented everything that it is cool now (in any language) over 40 years ago. They are also mostly right ;) Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python-mysql on Windows -- How to?
HI Rick, I did some searching on SourceForge and found a Windows installer for the mysql-python 1.2.0. (MySQL-python.exe-1.2.0.win32-py2.4.zip). I unzipped and ran this installer and seem to be all set. I will keep testing. Thanks. Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
Hi Diez, please take note, this suggestion does not nessecarily apply to programmers such as you myself of course for whom any python code is as transparant as the API's we write ;') I feared that you meant that - but wasn't sure. This is one of the often-requested-yet-they-will-never-come features of IDEs for python, as this would mean that you'd have type-information available on f. Consider this simple example: f = someRandomlyInstatiatedObject() Now what is e.g. f.C-space to show? why is this ambigious at all? am i seriously overlooking something? class jelle: def __init__(self): ''' we've been having this for a while, just the helpful constructor docstring ''' '''relates drag to speed''' self.terribleNamedMethod = 'of a programmer i will not disclose' j = jelle() shows the proper docstring al'right -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Does wxWindow.MakeModal(True) work for all Windows or just frames?
I am using wxPython 2.6.3.0 As far as I can tell from the documentation (www.wxpython.org), MakeModal() should work for all windows, but when I do some practical tests, I can only get it to work for frames. Can anyone confirm what the status of this method is. Is it intended to work for all windows or just for frames? If it is intended to work for all windows, does anyone have some sample code to make a window within a frame modal (personally, I want to make a grid modal). /Magnus -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
Notice that class attributes can already be annoted (properties have a docstring). BTW in Python 2.5 you have a convenient way to define readonly attributes (for instance constants) and give them a docstring. Here is an example: class C(object): @property def pi(self): 'pi is 3.14159' return 3.14159 c = C() print c.pi help(C.pi) # gives you the docstring Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? Nesting by indentation Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
It's true that most features of python are intentionally borrowed from other languages. If I can think of anything that I believe to be specific to python, I would say it is the combination of high level datatypes together with an extremely simple syntax. Actually, this combination often results in idioms that --- although adapted from other languages --- are seldom as clear as in python. Examples for this are one-liners like x,y = y,x a,b,c = f(x) for key in my_dict : do_some_thing_with(my_dict[key]) It might be that Guido adapted such notations from ABC, a language I am not familiar with, but as far as I know, the syntactic sugar for high level datatypes is one thing that distinguishes python from other languages. - harold - -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
class GeographicCoordinate: def __init__ (self, lat, long): self.lat = lat Latitude in degrees (positive North), per WGS84 self.long = long Longitude in degrees (positive West), per WGS84 Thanks for your example Roy, that illustrates well what I'm after: self.lat = lat ellipsoid reference: WGS84\nGRS 80 no longer supported It does exactly what its intended to do: i had no clue what the World Geodetic System and would have asserted my input with a GRS80_2_WGS84 function Little notes to avoid major mistakes. class landClimateOrbiter(NASA): self.speed = self.unit * x Just imagine 'feet' would have popped up when typing self.unit -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: Pyrex 0.9.4.1
Pyrex 0.9.4.1 is now available: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/ This is a very minor update to correct a tab/space problem in the distutils extension. What is Pyrex? -- Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules. It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with all Python reference counting and error checking handled automatically. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
Hi Michele, Thanks for pointing that out, cool! I would argue -even- that is too much programming effort. Like method docstring, variables docstrings should be effortless to write. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
jelle wrote: why is this ambigious at all? am i seriously overlooking something? Yes. A full example is this: import random class A: I'm A pass class B: I'm B pass def factory(): if random.random() = .5: return A() return B() o = factory() Now what is the IDE to show at o for the docstring? The point is: pythons dynamic nature allows for _runtime_ checks of this only. Now the special-case of classes can be worked around with a static analyzer to some extent - because ususally, import statements are easy enough to spot and resolve statically. But using __import__ even that can be obfuscated. Now I'm not saying that this should suppress all efforts to have IDEs more supportive. Yet a class is a declaration, as is a method - can be parsed easily. But e.g. setting an instance variable by means of setattr(self, name, value) instead of self.name = value is perfectly legal, often wanted and totally opaque to any IDE trying to give support. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? wildemar I find slice notation consistent and elegant - did it come form another language? Iain -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets beesoteric, shall we ; )
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Examples for this are one-liners like x,y = y,x a,b,c = f(x) for key in my_dict : do_some_thing_with(my_dict[key]) It might be that Guido adapted such notations from ABC, a language I am not familiar with something like: PUT (x, y) IN y, x PUT f x y IN y, x FOR key IN keys my_dict: DO_SOME_THING_WITH my_dict[key] /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does wxWindow.MakeModal(True) work for all Windows or just frames?
I found a post Re: modal controls that addresses more or less the same issue: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.wxpython/month=20041101 Still, any additional input would be more than welcome. /Magnus -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
In the Tutorial, the BFDL says: Strings can be subscripted (indexed); like in C, the first character of a string has subscript (index) 0. There is no separate character type; a character is simply a string of size one. Like in Icon, substrings can be specified with the slice notation: two indices separated by a colon. http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION00512 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
Too rigid-looking somehow. Hey, I'm an amateur... There are lots of variations on the concept I can think of. I want someone with a lot of design talent *and a little familiarity with the language* to take enough interest to have a go at it. At least (unlike the tadpoles) it has some resonance with the product it's trying to represent. mt -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
On 2006-04-21, Michael Tobis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too rigid-looking somehow. Hey, I'm an amateur... There are lots of variations on the concept I can think of. I want someone with a lot of design talent *and a little familiarity with the language* to take enough interest to have a go at it. At least (unlike the tadpoles) it has some resonance with the product it's trying to represent. Not that I'm disagreeing, but how to you rate resonance with the product? -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! ... the MYSTERIANS at are in here with my visi.comCORDUROY SOAP DISH!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets beesoteric, shall we ; )
Iain King wrote: I find slice notation consistent and elegant - did it come form another language? Icon: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/icon/ see e.g. http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/lang/icon/substring.html http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/lang/icon/positions.html /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Joining stdout stderr of subprocess ?
robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when I run a command myapp 21 Try myapp 21 | cat and see what you get. You should get the same output as the python. #!python print os.popen(myapp 21).read() the stderr stuff comes all after the stdout stuff. How can I get ahold of all the out and err joined synchronously in the order, it is created ? You need to either 1) change myapp to fflush() more often 2) investigate the python pty module to fool the app into thinking it is talking to a terminal -- Nick Craig-Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: are docstrings for variables a bad idea?
jelle wrote:
Hi Michele,
Thanks for pointing that out, cool!
I would argue -even- that is too much programming effort.
Like method docstring, variables docstrings should be effortless to
write.
I don't know what exactly do you mean with variable docstrings, but
if you just want to add docstrings to instance's data attributes, you
can use something like this:
This module is useful for documenting data attributes. Example:
class C(object):
... foo = attr('a common attribute in examples')
... bar = attr('this one has a name for nicer errors', 'bar')
... baz = attr('and this one has a default value', default=1)
... def __init__(self, foo=None, bar=None, baz=None):
... if foo is not None:
... self.foo = foo
... if bar is not None:
... self.bar = bar
... if baz is not None:
... self.baz = baz
...
C.foo
attr(doc='a common attribute in examples', name='', default=NoDefault)
C.foo.__doc__
'a common attribute in examples'
C.bar.__doc__
'this one has a name for nicer errors'
C.baz.__doc__
'and this one has a default value'
c = C()
c.foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
...
AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute ''
c.bar
Traceback (most recent call last):
...
AttributeError: 'C' object has no attribute 'bar'
c.baz
1
d = C(1, 2, 3)
d.foo
1
d.bar
2
d.baz
3
class Marker(object):
def __init__(self, representation):
self.representation = representation
def __repr__(self):
return self.representation
_NoDefault = Marker('NoDefault')
class attr(object):
def __init__(self, doc='', name='', default=_NoDefault):
self.__doc__ = doc
self.name = name
self.default = default
def __repr__(self):
s = attr(doc=%r, name=%r, default=%r)
return s % (self.__doc__, self.name, self.default)
def __get__(self, obj, objtype):
if obj is None:
return self
if self.default is _NoDefault:
msg = %r object has no attribute %r
raise AttributeError(msg % (objtype.__name__, self.name))
return self.default
if __name__ == '__main__':
import doctest
doctest.testmod()
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How should multiple (related) projects be arranged (structured) and configured so that they can share code, have a related package structure and enable proper unittesting, and ensuring no namespac
Thanks everyone for their assistance. I have managed to achieve all that I set out to do: - separation between src and test folders - now successfully sharing code between projects - running unittest s and suites - avoiding namespace collisions The solution involved the following (if anyone else is interested) - ammending all my __init__.py packages so that they included the following: from pkgutil import extend_path __path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__) as per Peter Otten's suggestion - refactoring all the code so that the imports and froms conformed to the new package structure (a.b.c.common, a.b.c.app1 etc) and physically moving all the required files - ammending the PYTHONPATH so that the src and test directories for each project is included at the time of running ie PYTHONPATH=COMMON/src;COMMON/test;APP1/src;APP1/test;APP2/src;APP2/test Of course the /test entries are only required for testing and not runtime but you get the idea. I understand that flatter package structures are apparently the python way (http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html) but I like a nice little small little related package of functionality when I am l carving up a complex problem so I'm happy to incur any extra performance penalty in dict lookups. thanks again Todd -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Since Python was released well before Java, saying that a feature in Python is like a feature in Java normally doesn't mean that Python imitated Java there -- it's either separate reinvention, or both of them imitating another language. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
how to append to a list twice?
If I want to create a list of the form [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97...] (where each item is repeated twice after the first one), how might I do that most efficiently? Right now I have this: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.append(series[-1] - 1) But of course that only does it once, and I don't want to have to copy and paste the append line. Perhaps there's a better way than this. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: win32com.client.constants - AttributeError
how do I do this? Where is the Word object library? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
That's a good try... Can we get some street pros? http://www.graffitifonts.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
John Salerno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If I want to create a list of the form [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97...] (where each item is repeated twice after the first one), how might I do that most efficiently? Right now I have this: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.append(series[-1] - 1) But of course that only does it once, and I don't want to have to copy and paste the append line. Perhaps there's a better way than this. Thanks. series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.extend([series[-1] - 1]*2) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
John Salerno wrote: If I want to create a list of the form [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97...] (where each item is repeated twice after the first one), how might I do that most efficiently? Right now I have this: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.append(series[-1] - 1) But of course that only does it once, and I don't want to have to copy and paste the append line. Perhaps there's a better way than this. Thanks. series = [100] for i in range(1,10): series.extend([100-i]*2) print series [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97, 96, 96, 95, 95, 94, 94, 93, 93, 92, 92, 91, 91] Gerard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
John Salerno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I want to create a list of the form [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97...] (where each item is repeated twice after the first one), how might I do that most efficiently? Right now I have this: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.append(series[-1] - 1) But of course that only does it once, and I don't want to have to copy and paste the append line. Perhaps there's a better way than this. def makeseries(N): series = [N] append = series.append for tailer in xrange(N-1, -1, -1): append(tailer) append(tailer) return series series = makeseries(100) assuming that by most efficiently you mean fastest, this might come close; you'll want to also time an alternative where makeseries is a generator which just yields the values, and the last assignment becomes series=list(makeseries(100)). Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
If I want to create a list of the form [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97...] (where each item is repeated twice after the first one), how might I do that most efficiently? Right now I have this: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.append(series[-1] - 1) Well, you can do something like def foo(start): count = 0 while 1: yield start - ((count + 1) / 2) count += 1 which is pretty efficient in the matter. If you just need the results, you can do something like series = [100] for _ in range(10): series.extend([x[-1]-1]*2) Both should get you what you want, and one or the other may be better depending on the scenario in which you want to use it. -tkc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Although somewhat more elegant, Python slices follow Matlab's slice notation. In simpler cases they are identical. mt -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
Not sure if this is simpler or better, but here's a way to do it with a generator: value = 100 count = 0 def valueGen(): global value global count while(value = 0): if(value == 100): yield value value -= 1 else: if(count 1): yield value else: yield value value -= 1 count = count + 1 series = [] gen= valueGen() for item in gen: print item series.append(item) print series -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: Pyrr 0.1 - Lexer and LR(1)-Parser Generator for Python
FWIW: This has a similiar look/feel to how sabbey wrapped dparser.
http://staff.washington.edu/sabbey/py_dparser/
Heiko Wundram wrote:
Hi list!
Not long ago I was looking for an easy to use, but powerful parser and lexer
generating tool for Python, and to my dismay, I found quite a number of
Python projects implementing an (LA)LR(1) parser generator, but none of them
seemed quite finished, or even pythonic.
As I required a parser generator for Python for one of my work projects, I
set
out to write (yet another one), and currently am at (release-)version 0.1 for
Pyrr.ltk and ptk.
An example for Pyrr.ltk and ptk usage implementing a (very) simple calculator:
# -*- coding: iso-8859-15 -*-
from ltk import LexerBase, IgnoreMatch
from ptk import ParserBase
from operator import add, sub, mul, div
class NumLexer(LexerBase):
def number(self,value):
number - r/[0-9]+/
return float(value)
def ws(self,*args):
ws - r/\\s+/
raise IgnoreMatch
def ops(self,op):
addop - /+/
- /-/
mulop - /*/
- r/\\//
return op
class NumParser(ParserBase):
/mulop/: left
/addop/: left
__start__ = term
def term(self,value1,op,value2):
term - term /addop/ term
- term /mulop/ term
return {+:add,-:sub,*:mul,/:div}[op](value1,value2)
def value(self,value):
term - /number/
return value
print NumParser.parse(NumLexer.tokenize(3 + 4 - 123 / 23))
Grammar rules and lexemes are specified in docstrings, where lines not
matching a definition of a rule or lexeme are ignored. The resulting lexer
and parser class is, thus, very much self-documenting, which was one of my
biggest goals for the project.
I'm currently in the process of writing documentation for both packages (and
especially documenting the extensions to BNF-grammars that Pyrr.ptk allows,
such as your usual RE-operators ?, *, + and {x,y}, and forward arguments, and
documenting the stateful lexer support that Pyrr.ltk implements), but I
thought that I'd release early and often, so that people interested in this
project might have a look at it now to input suggestions and extensions that
they'd like me to add to make this a fully featured Python parser generating
toolkit which might be offered as a Python package.
Anyway, the sources can be downloaded (via subversion) from:
http://svn.modelnine.org/svn/Pyrr/trunk
where I'll check in the documentation that I've written so far and a Python
distutils distribution over the weekend, and make sure that I don't check in
brocken code from now on. And, Pyrr.* is Python 2.4 only at the moment, and I
have no plans to make it backwards-compatible, but if you're interested in
backporting it, feel free to mail me patches.
--- Heiko.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proposed Python logo
On 4/21/06, Michael Yanowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think something from Monty Python (I haven't watched it recently to know what would be ideal) would be more appropriate than an ugly reptile which is usually associated with evil and our reason for leaving the Garden of Eden. +1. I'd like some variation of http://tinyurl.com/gj74k used as a logo. -- Cheers, Simon B, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
Paul McGuire wrote: John Salerno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If I want to create a list of the form [100, 99, 99, 98, 98, 97, 97...] (where each item is repeated twice after the first one), how might I do that most efficiently? Right now I have this: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.append(series[-1] - 1) But of course that only does it once, and I don't want to have to copy and paste the append line. Perhaps there's a better way than this. Thanks. series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.extend([series[-1] - 1]*2) Interesting. I tried the *2 method twice, but I kept getting weird results, I guess because I was using append and not extend. I thought extend added lists to lists, but obviously that's not the case here. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Why does Python have to add anything, if it makes that which came before more easily accessible/usable? Perhaps that is its innovation. Is that not sufficient? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
Alex Martelli wrote: But of course that only does it once, and I don't want to have to copy and paste the append line. Perhaps there's a better way than this. def makeseries(N): series = [N] append = series.append for tailer in xrange(N-1, -1, -1): append(tailer) append(tailer) But Now You've Violated The DRY Principle!!! /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to append to a list twice?
Interesting. I tried the *2 method twice, but I kept getting weird results, I guess because I was using append and not extend. I thought extend added lists to lists, but obviously that's not the case here. In the above example, it *is* add[ing] lists to lists. Note the set of brackets: series = [100] for x in range(10): # just for testing series.extend([series[-1] - 1]*2) You have a one-element series: [series[-1] - 1] that gets duplicated using the overloading of the multiplication (duplication) operator: [...] * 2 This yields a two-element list. This list then gets passed to extend(), to add those two elements to the original list. If you used append() instead of extend(), it would be something like [100, [99, 99], [98, 98],...] -tkc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
