Wing IDE 3.0 released

[Wingware]

Hi,

We're happy to announce the release of Wing IDE 3.0, an advanced
development environment for the Python programming language.
It is available from:

http://wingware.com/

Wing IDE provides powerful debugging, editing, code intelligence,
testing, and search capabilities that reduce development and debugging
time, cut down on coding errors, and make it easier to understand
and navigate Python code.

New features added in Wing 3.0 include:

* Multi-threaded debugger
* Debug value tooltips in editor, debug probe, and interactive shell
* Autocompletion and call tips in debug probe and interactive shell
* Automatically updating project directories
* Testing tool, currently supporting unittest derived tests (*)
* OS Commands tool for executing and interacting with external
   commands (*)
* Rewritten indentation analysis and conversion (*)
* Introduction of Wing IDE 101, a free edition for beginning
   programmers
* Available as a .deb package for Debian and Ubuntu
* Support for Stackless Python
* Support for 64 bit Python on Windows and Linux

(*)'d items are available in Wing IDE Professional only.

The CHANGELOG.txt file in the installation provides additional details.

System requirements are Windows 2000 or later, OS X 10.3.9 or later for
PPC or Intel (requires X11 Server), or a recent Linux system (either 32
or 64 bit).

Purchasing  Upgrading
--

Wing IDE Professional  Wing IDE Personal are commercial software and
require a license to run.  To upgrade a 2.x license or purchase a new
3.x license:

Upgradehttps://wingware.com/store/upgrade
Purchase   https://wingware.com/store/purchase

Any 2.x license sold after May 2nd 2006 is free to upgrade; others cost
1/2 the normal price to upgrade.

Thanks!

The Wingware Team
Wingware | Python IDE
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com

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cx_Logging 1.4

[Anthony Tuininga]

What is cx_Logging?

cx_Logging is a Python extension module which operates in a fashion
similar to the logging module that ships with Python 2.3 and higher.
It also has a C interface which allows applications to perform logging
independently of or in tandem with Python.


Where do I get it?

http://cx-logging.sourceforge.net


What's new?

1) On Windows, ensure that the log files are opened in such a way that
they are not inherited by subprocesses; otherwise, the existence of a
subprocess prevents log rotation.
2) Build an import library on Windows and change the shared object
name of the module on other platforms so that other projects can use
it directly at the C level.
3) Removed unnecessary dependency on the win32api package on Windows.
4) Tweaked setup script to build PKG-INFO and MANIFEST using metadata
in the setup script instead of separate files.
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Re: Using fractions instead of floats

[Rhamphoryncus]

On Sep 30, 7:35 pm, andresj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was doing some programming in Python, and the idea came to my mind:
 using fractions instead of floats when doing 2/5.

The core problem with rationals (other than the inability to handle
irrationals) is their tendency to require more and more memory as
calculations progress.  This means they get mysteriously slower and
slower.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-October/166630.html

My own pet numeric type is fixed point.  You get as much precision
as you specify.  Alas, 2/5 would likely result in 0. ;)

--
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Re: Using fractions instead of floats

[Robert Kern]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Oct 1, 8:17?pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Oct 1, 9:03 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Oct 1, 7:20 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Oct 1, 8:30 am, Nick Craig-Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
mpq(1,3)+0.6
   mpq(14,15)
 Golly!  That's quite impressive.  And more than a little bit magic as
 well, since 0.6 is definitely not the same as 3/5.  
 It's not? Since when?
 The 0.6 above is a floating point number, mathematically very close to
 0.6 but definitely not equal to it, since 0.6 can't be represented
 exactly as a float.
 
 Oh, you mean something like this, right?
 
 import gmpy
 a = 0.6
 a
 0.59998
 
 So, the rational should have 59998
 in the neumerator and 10 in the
 denominator?

Actually (5404319552844595 / 2**53) would be best.

 But it doesn't
 
 b = gmpy.mpq(a)
 b
 mpq(3,5)
 
 Why do you suppose that is?

For the same reason that str() does. See below.

 For that matter, why
 does
 
 str(a)
 '0.6'
 
 give me an EXACT representation?

It doesn't. It just rounds at a lower number of decimal places than is necessary
to faithfully represent the number. str() is intended to give friendly results,
not strictly correct ones. In this case it happens that float(str(0.6)) == 0.6,
but this is not guaranteed. For most numbers that a user or programmer might
enter, there will only be a relatively small amount of precision necessary, and
float(str(x)) == x will tend to hold. That's why it does this.

 Didn't you just
 say it couldn't be represented exactly?

Yup.

 Which is correct,
 
 str(a)
 '0.6'
 
 or
 
 repr(a)
 '0.59998'
 
 ?

The latter.

 How does gmpy make the conversion from float to rational?

gmpy has a configurable transformation between floats and the internal
representation. I believe the default goes through str().

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco

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Re: slice last 4 items from a list

[James Matthews]

Very pythoninc!

On 10/1/07, John Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Oct 2, 6:27 am, brad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Is this the correct way to slice the last 4 items from a list?
 
  x = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
  print x[-4:]
 
  It works, but is it Pythonic?

 It's Pythonic. It's also unambiguous, unlike your specification, which
 could be interpreted as 'chop off the last 4 items from a list' i.e.
 del x[-4:]. What you are actually doing is 'print the last 4 items of
 a list'.

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Re: module confusion

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert
Kern wrote:

 Not all of the modules in a package are imported by importing the
 top-level package.

You can't import packages, only modules.

 os.path is a particularly weird case because it is just an alias to the
 platform-specific path-handling module; os is not a package.

os is a module, os.path is a variable within that module. That's all there
is to it.
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RE: Wrapper functions and arguments

[Ryan Ginstrom]

 On Behalf Of Jeremy Sanders
 def a(x, y, z):
   print x, y, z
 def b(x, y, z='fruitbat')
   print x, y, z
 
 for func in a, b:
   def wrapper(func=func, *args, **argsk):
  # do something
  func(*args, **argsk)
   x.append(wrapper)
 
 x[0](1, 2, 3)
 x[1](1, 2)
 ...
 
 Is there any way to do this? Can you capture arguments in a 
 tuple and dict, but still receive other keyword arguments? 

I think you're missing one level of wrapping.

 def a(x, y, z):
print x, y, z

 def b(x, y, z='fruitbat'):
print x, y, z

 x = []
 for func in a, b:
def wrapper(func):
def wrapped(*args, **kwds):
print wrapped!
func(*args, **kwds)
return wrapped
x.append(wrapper(func))

 x[0](1, 2, 3)
wrapped!
1 2 3
 x[1](1, 2)
wrapped!
1 2 fruitbat
 

---
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom

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Re: module confusion

[Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch]

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:34:29 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert
 Kern wrote:
 
 Not all of the modules in a package are imported by importing the
 top-level package.
 
 You can't import packages, only modules.

Oh come on, this is unnecessary nitpicking.  Importing the module
`__init__` from a package using the name of the package is close enough to
justify the phrase I import the package IMHO.

Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
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Re: LastWriteTime in windows registry

[Tim Golden]

Peters, Matthew J. ET3 wrote:
 I'm looking for a way to read the lastwritetime property of
 a windows registry key.  ... I found the function in perl

So what does the Perl source say? It presumably hooks some kind
of Windows API. Take that and, if it isn't already exposed via
pywin32, use ctypes to get hold of it.

TJG
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Re: Python 3.0 migration plans?

[Alia Khouri]

Couldn't agree with you more. What would be fantastic is if I could
drop into the Pypi (and/or use easy_install) and download
automatically compiled versions of extension modules for different
versions of python.

I'm sure the community at large would be happy to chip in an annual
fee to help build/maintain this infrastructure: I know my firm would.

PS: IMHO The growth of Ruby is, to a large extent, due to easy
installation of modules via its gem system...



On Sep 28, 6:53 pm, John Nagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
 extension modules.  Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
 with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
 There's not even an archive.  Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory of
 URLs.

  Take a look at how Perl does it.  Here are the instructions on
 how to contribute to CPAN:

http://www.cpan.org/modules/04pause.html

 There's a way to get your module into the system, a standardized format,
 build, and installation procedure, and an archive which is mirrored.
 There's a common bug reporting system.  Modules abandoned by their
 original developers are not lost, and can be adopted by someone else.

  Python doesn't have any of this.  And that's far more of a problem
 than Python 3.x.

 John Nagle


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Re: reliable unit test logging

[Vyacheslav Maslov]

Ben Finney wrote:
 Vyacheslav Maslov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 I have many many many python unit test, which are used for testing
 some remote web service.
 
 Part of your confusion comes from the fact that test a remote
 service isn't what a unit test does.
 
 A unit test is one that executes a very *limited* part of the code: it
 tests a code unit, not the whole system, and makes a simple set of
 assertions about the result. If there are accesses to remote services
 over the network, that's far beyond the scope of a unit test.
 
 I don't doubt that you may be using the Python standard library module
 'unittest' to perform these tests. But they're not unit tests; they're
 integration tests, or system tests, or performance tests, or something
 else.
 
 Can someone explain my why so simple feature like logging of
 timestamps during test execution was not implemented in any
 extension?
 
 Probably because the most important thing to know for the purpose of a
 unit test is whether the yes/no assertions were violated. Knowing when
 the tests start and finish isn't interesting. If start and finish
 times *are* interesting for your tests, you're *not* doing unit
 testing, but some other form of testing like performance tests.
I understand your opinion, you are right, i use unit tests for some 
other kind of work. But anyway it works and produce good results for 
project.

 Untested code, that should give you enough to try it out yourself:
Thanks i will look into this.

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Re: Question about quoting style.

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Gabriel Genellina a écrit :
 En Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:10:11 -0300, James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 escribi�:
 
 Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
 First point is that Python has no variable interpolation.

 If you squint, it kind of does*:

  print '%(language)s has %(#)03d quote types.' % \
   {'language': Python, #: 2}
 Python has 002 quote types.

 You might think if the dict as a name space and the formatting operation
 as performing interpolation--but this take on formatting might be a 
 stretch.
 
 Stretching more:
 
 py language=Python
 py number=4
 py print '%(language)s has %(number)d quote types.' % locals()
 Python has 4 quote types.
 
 Or even more:
 
 py from string import Template
 py print Template('$language has $number quote 
 types.').substitute(locals())
 Python has 4 quote types.
 

Answering to James, Carsten and Gabriel : sorry guys, but I definitively 
won't count string formatting as variable interpolation - even if, when 
used with locals(), it comes very close from a practical POV (and is 
IMHO way cleaner).
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Re: Question about quoting style.

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

J. Cliff Dyer a écrit :
(snip)
 You missed another dimension of python string types.

I didn't missed -  I choosed to skip the subject since it was not 
about quoting style. Not to say I necessarily made the best choice...

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Re: s.split() on multiple separators

[Antoon Pardon]

On 2007-10-01, Gabriel Genellina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 En Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:16:30 -0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?:

 From my POV, if I want sequence from here to there, it should include
 both here and there.

 I do understand the consequences of making high bound exclusive, which
 is more elegant code: xrange(len(c)). But it does seem a bit
 illogical...

 See this note from E.W.Dijkstra in 1982 where he says that the Python  
 convention is the best choice.
 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html

It may be convincing if you only consider natural numbers in ascending
order. Suppose you have the sequence a .. b and you want the reverse.
If you work with included bounds the reverse is just b .. a. If you use
the python convention, things become more complicated.

Another problem is if you are working with floats. Suppose you have a
set of floats. Now you want the subset of numbers that are between a and
b included. If you want to follow the convention that means you have to
find the smallest float that is bigger than b, not a trivial task.

-- 
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Re: Select as dictionary...

[Duncan Booth]

Abandoned [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  ( I don't want to use FOR and APPEND because the
 query have 2 million result and i want to speed)
 

How many times do you plan on doing this? On my system I just timed adding 
2 million elements to a dictionary: it took 0.35 seconds. Appending 2 
million elements to a list took 0.43 seconds.

Unless you really do need to repeat this operation many many many times 
then just write the obvious code instead of wasting your (and our) time 
trying to micro-optimise.
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Re: Tapping into the access of an int instance

[Piet van Oostrum]

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (CM) wrote:

CM On Sep 20, 1:21 pm, Tor Erik Sønvisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Does anyone know how to interrupt the lookup of an integer value? I
 know I need to subclass int, since builtin types can't be altered
 directly...
 
 Below is how far I've come... What I want is to tap into the access of
 instance i's value 1...
 
  class Int(int):
 
 def __init__(self, *a, **k):
 super(Int, self).__init__(self, *a, **k)
 
  i = Int(1)
  i
 
 1
 
 Regards,
 Tor Erik

CM While I'm not *totally* sure what you are asking, you can access the
CM first parameter you passed in __init__ via args[0].

What args do you mean?
-- 
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URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: s.split() on multiple separators

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 It may be convincing if you only consider natural numbers in
 ascending order. Suppose you have the sequence a .. b and you want
 the reverse.  If you work with included bounds the reverse is just b
 .. a. If you use the python convention, things become more
 complicated.

It's a tradeoff.  The convention used by Python (and Lisp, Java and
others) is more convenient for other things.  Length of the sequence
x[a:b] is simply b-a.  Empty sequence is denoted simply with x[a:a],
where you would need to use the weird x[a:a-1] with inclusive bounds.
Subsequences such as x[a:b] and x[b:c] merge smoothly into x[a:c],
making it natural to iterate over subsequences without visiting an
element twice.

 Another problem is if you are working with floats. Suppose you have
 a set of floats. Now you want the subset of numbers that are between
 a and b included.  If you want to follow the convention that means
 you have to find the smallest float that is bigger than b, not a
 trivial task.

The exact same argument can be used against the other convention: if
you are working with inclusive bounds, and you need to represent the
subset [a, b), you need to find the largest float that is smaller than
b.
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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[Diez B. Roggisch]

 Maybe a better question is, how has Tk managed to keep beating up the
 newer, more modern, more featureful, better documented toolkits
 encroaching on his territory? What's Tk's secret weapon?

There is no secret weapon. It's a question about dependencies, maintenance,
stability and supported platforms.

Using one of the other Toolkits would mean that an awful lot of libraries
need to be included as well - even nowadays, people complain about the size
of a python distribution. 

Then something in the core libraries has to be actively  reliably
maintained to not endanger the overall release cycles.

Linked to that is the question of stability - not so much as it doesn't
crash but more on the lines of it doesn't move so fast people cry for
newer versions all the time

And last but not least is Tk available on a wide range of platforms, larger
than more or less every other toolkit. I know of a popular source control
software which vendor chose Tk for the same reason.

Diez
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Re: Overriding Logging Config FileHandler Filename

[Peter Otten]

Kenneth Love wrote:

 My (probably erroneous) speculation is that I can retrieve a handler
 specified in the INI file and dynamically change the filename argument
 to the desired value.  So far, I have been unable to figure out how to
 do this.

Here's a brute-force approach (tweaking the config file in memory before
passing it on to the logging module) that might work.

import logging.config

import ConfigParser
import StringIO

HANDLER = handler
LOGFILE = alternate.log

instream = open(some.cfg)
cp = ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
cp.readfp(instream)
section = handler_%s % HANDLER
oldargs = eval(cp.get(section, args))
cp.set(section, args, (LOGFILE,) + oldargs[1:])

outstream = StringIO.StringIO()
cp.write(outstream)
outstream.seek(0)
logging.config.fileConfig(outstream)

logging.error(oops!)

Peter
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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[Paul Boddie]

On 2 Okt, 04:54, bramble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maybe the key I'm missing is this: maybe GvR and company think that a
 language absolutely should come off-the-shelf with GUI toolkit
 bindings. So, given that, they feel they've gotta pick just one, and
 they've already got Tkinter and it works, so that's that. Is that it?

Yes. Also, Tk isn't a particularly fast-moving target compared to some
of the other toolkits, so it's possible to not spend too much time
maintaining the bindings for it, I imagine. Otherwise, Tkinter might
have fallen out of the standard library by now.

Paul

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Using ImageGrab (PIL) to capture screen of remote computer

[jorma kala]

Hi,

Is it possible to use ImageGrab of the Python Imaging Library to capture the
screen of a remote computer?

I'm running my python program on a computer that is connected directly via a
ethernet crossover cable to another computer.
Can I somehow get ImageGrab to grab the display of the remote computer by
specifying the IP address ?

Thanks a lot

jorma
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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Kamen TOMOV]

On Sun, Sep 30 2007, Klaus Schilling wrote:

 ...
 private property is unethical

How I craved to read that!

Viva la revolution! 

Ест человек - ест проблем,
Нет человек - нет проблем!

The End justify the means!

Long live communism! 

-- 
Камен
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Re: reliable unit test logging

[Ben Finney]

Vyacheslav Maslov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I understand your opinion

Hopefully you mean explanation, not opinion. I gave what appear to
me to be facts, not opinion, about the definition of a unit test.

 you are right, i use unit tests for some other kind of work.

More accurately: you use the Python 'unittest' framework for some
tests that are not unit tests.

 But anyway it works and produce good results for project.

Indeed, there's nothing wrong with using the module this way. The only
trouble in this case is confused terminology, that has led you to
believe the module is deficient, when actually it's doing the job it's
meant to do.

 Thanks i will look into this.

Glad to help.

-- 
 \ Holy uncanny photographic mental processes, Batman!  -- Robin |
  `\   |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney
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Re: s.split() on multiple separators

[Antoon Pardon]

On 2007-10-02, Hrvoje Niksic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 It may be convincing if you only consider natural numbers in
 ascending order. Suppose you have the sequence a .. b and you want
 the reverse.  If you work with included bounds the reverse is just b
 .. a. If you use the python convention, things become more
 complicated.

 It's a tradeoff.  The convention used by Python (and Lisp, Java and
 others) is more convenient for other things.  Length of the sequence
 x[a:b] is simply b-a.  Empty sequence is denoted simply with x[a:a],
 where you would need to use the weird x[a:a-1] with inclusive bounds.
 Subsequences such as x[a:b] and x[b:c] merge smoothly into x[a:c],
 making it natural to iterate over subsequences without visiting an
 element twice.

Sure it is a tradeoff and the python choice may in the end still turn
out the best. But that doesn't contradict that a number of
considerations were simply not mentioned in the article refered to.

 Another problem is if you are working with floats. Suppose you have
 a set of floats. Now you want the subset of numbers that are between
 a and b included.  If you want to follow the convention that means
 you have to find the smallest float that is bigger than b, not a
 trivial task.

 The exact same argument can be used against the other convention: if
 you are working with inclusive bounds, and you need to represent the
 subset [a, b), you need to find the largest float that is smaller than
 b.

Which I think is a good argument against using any convention and
having explict conditions for the boundaries to include or exclude
them.

So instead of writing xrange(2,6) you have to write something like
xrange(2 = x  6) which explictly states 2 is included and 6 is
excluded. If someone wants both boundaries include he can write
xrange(2 = x = 5). 

A slice notation that would somehow indicate which boundaries are included
and which are excluded would be usefull IMO.

-- 
Antoon Pardon
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problem with special built-in method __contains__,

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

if i have a dictionary  name number and i want toask the list
whether a particular key already
exists.

 print number
{'octal': '1234567', 'binary': '10100101', 'decimal': '1234567890',
'hexadecimal': '1-9,a-f'}

 i got  error..after execute

 number._contains_(test)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File pyshell#15, line 1, in module
number._contains_(test)
AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute '_contains_'

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readline() - problem

[piotr]

Hi!
I'm a new user of python, and have problem.
I have a plain ascii file:
11..1
12..1
11..1
I want to create a new file which contains only lines with '1' on 15th
position.
I've tried this:

import string
f=open('/test/test.asc','r')
o=open('/test/out.asc','w')
for line in f:
s= f.readline()
if s[15]=='1' :
   o.write(s)
o.close()
f.close()

Why it doesn't work ('s' contains ' ' )?

piotr

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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[Carsten Haese]

On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 03:04 +, bramble wrote:
 But Py3k is all about breaking compatibility

That's a complete distortion of Python 3.0's mission. Python 3.0 breaks
backwards compatibility only where there exist good reasons to do so. As
Guido put it in a recent Python-3000 post, Python 3000 is boldly
choosing to be backwards compatible, except in cases where a real
benefit can be obtained by being incompatible.

So, unless you can make a case that a real benefit can be obtained by
removing Tkinter, it'll stay.

-- 
Carsten Haese
http://informixdb.sourceforge.net


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Re: problem with special built-in method __contains__,

[Paul Hankin]

On Oct 2, 12:14 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 if i have a dictionary  name number and i want toask the list
 whether a particular key already
 exists.

  print number

 {'octal': '1234567', 'binary': '10100101', 'decimal': '1234567890',
 'hexadecimal': '1-9,a-f'}

  i got  error..after execute

  number._contains_(test)

It's __contains__ and not _contains_. But better is just:
  'test' in number

--
Paul Hankin

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Re: readline() - problem

[Paul Hankin]

On Oct 2, 12:25 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi!
 I'm a new user of python, and have problem.
 I have a plain ascii file:
 11..1
 12..1
 11..1
 I want to create a new file which contains only lines with '1' on 15th
 position.
 I've tried this:

 import string
 f=open('/test/test.asc','r')
 o=open('/test/out.asc','w')
 for line in f:
 s= f.readline()
 if s[15]=='1' :
o.write(s)
 o.close()
 f.close()

 Why it doesn't work ('s' contains ' ' )?

You're iterating over the lines in f already, so no need to call
readline.

for line in f:
  if line[15] == '1':
o.write(line)

--
Paul Hankin

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Re: readline() - problem

[Ben Finney]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 import string

Why import 'string' if you're not using it?

 f=open('/test/test.asc','r')
 o=open('/test/out.asc','w')
 for line in f:
 s= f.readline()

Your line object is already bound to the 'line' name in each
iteration. You need to use that, not attempt to read yet another line
each time.

That is, instead of::

for line in f:
foo = f.readline()
do_interesting_thing(foo)

you should do this::

for line in f:
do_interesting_thing(line)

-- 
 \ The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is |
  `\   required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long |
_o__)run.  -- Henry David Thoreau |
Ben Finney
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Re: Using fractions instead of floats

[Neil Cerutti]

On 2007-10-01, Arnaud Delobelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Oct 1, 6:26 pm, Neil Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 2007-10-01, Arnaud Delobelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Finally, arithmetic would become very confusing if there were
  three distinct numeric types; it already causes enough
  confusion with two!

 Scheme says: It's not that bad.

 Scheme has prefix numeric operators, so that 1/2 is
 unambiguously (for the interpreter and the user) a litteral for
 'the fraction 1/2'. You can't avoid the confusion in python, as
 binary operators are infix. Of course, we could create a new
 kind of litteral.  Let's see, / and // are already operators,
 so why not use /// ? ;)

But you wouldn't actually need a literal rational represention.

But I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here; I like rationals in
Scheme and Lisp, but I don't see a need for them in Python.

On the other hand, Python has had complex numbers a long time,
and it doesn't need those more than rationals, does it? My guess
is that it got complex numbers but not rationals because
rationals just aren't very efficient.

But as a programmer, I'm mostly just a data-twiddler, and don't
generally need either of those numeric type in my day-to-day
work. So I'm not the guy to ask. ;)

-- 
Neil Cerutti
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to
play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok. --Shaquille O'Neal
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Re: readline() - problem

[Wesley Brooks]

Given a file:

 t.txt  
1 2
1 1
3 1
### end of file ###

file = open('t.txt', 'r')
for i, line in enumerate(file):
print Line:, i, Text:, line

would give the result:

Line: 0 Text: 1 2
Line: 1 Text: 1 1
Line: 2 Text: 3 1

To check the third character in each line:

for line in file:
if (line != '') and (len(line)  2):
 if line[2] == '1':
 print Got line:, line

Would give:

Got line: 1 1
Got line: 3 1

Cheers,

Wesley Brooks

On 02/10/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi!
 I'm a new user of python, and have problem.
 I have a plain ascii file:
 11..1
 12..1
 11..1
 I want to create a new file which contains only lines with '1' on 15th
 position.
 I've tried this:

 import string
 f=open('/test/test.asc','r')
 o=open('/test/out.asc','w')
 for line in f:
 s= f.readline()
 if s[15]=='1' :
o.write(s)
 o.close()
 f.close()

 Why it doesn't work ('s' contains ' ' )?

 piotr

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Re: readline() - problem

[piotr]

On 2 Pa , 13:39, Ben Finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  import string

 Why import 'string' if you're not using it?

  f=open('/test/test.asc','r')
  o=open('/test/out.asc','w')
  for line in f:
  s= f.readline()

 Your line object is already bound to the 'line' name in each
 iteration. You need to use that, not attempt to read yet another line
 each time.


Of course, it helped. Many thanks for all.

piotr

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Re: problem with special built-in method __contains__,

[J. Clifford Dyer]

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 11:14:38AM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote regarding 
problem with special built-in method   __contains__,:
 
 if i have a dictionary  name number and i want toask the list
 whether a particular key already
 exists.
 
  print number
 {'octal': '1234567', 'binary': '10100101', 'decimal': '1234567890',
 'hexadecimal': '1-9,a-f'}
 
  i got  error..after execute
 
  number._contains_(test)
 
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File pyshell#15, line 1, in module
 number._contains_(test)
 AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute '_contains_'
 

First of all, the special methods contain a *double* underscore before and 
after the name, so it's not _contains_, it's __contains__.

Secondly, for most basic operations, you shouldn't have to use these special 
methods directly.  They are bound to other funtionality in Python.  So instead 
of:


number.__contains('test')

try the following:

'test' in number  

Cheers,
Cliff
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file open dialog from within PythonWin

[aine_canby]

Hi,

I want to open a file seach dialog from within my python script which
I run from within PythonWin. I also have the wxPython package
installed.

How might I do this?

Thanks,

Aine

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Inheriting from int or long

[snorble]

I started creating a simple bits class, intended to act like a array
of bits. This was my initial idea, basically just overriding the
string representation to display the bitmask (so far):

class bits(long):
def __str__ (self):
s = ''
if self == 0L:
s += '-'
else:
x = self
while x = 1:
if x  1L: s = '#' + s
else:  s = '-' + s
x = 1
return s

My thought was this will act like a Long, and so should act like an
array of bits with arbitrary precision, supporting the standard
bitwise operations, along with others I may add.

 import bits
 b = bits.bits(32)
 b
32L
 print b
#-
 b = bits.bits(35)
 print b
#---##
 b = bits.bits(36)
 print b
#--#--
 b = 1
 print b
72

So obviously when I attempt a bitwise operation (ex. b = 1), b is
being assigned the result of b  1, which is a Long.

 b = bits.bits(36)
 type(b)
class 'bits.bits'
 type (b  1)
type 'long'

Is there any way around this without reimplementing all of the bitwise
operators? It's not the biggest deal to reimplement the operators, but
it kind of defeats the benefit of inheriting from an integer type.

If there isn't a way around this, then I am curious in what situations
it would be beneficial to inherit from an int or long. This issue
seems more related to numeric types, since they are so centered around
operations that involve assignment, as opposed to, say, a List, which
has some operators (ex. +=), but does not depend on them (ex. use
append() instead).

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Re: Creating a custom python python distribution

[kyosohma]

On Sep 30, 10:18 pm, shailesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,
 I wish to create a Python distribution includind Python and some other
 libraries (Zope 3, PyWin32, numpy, lxml, etc.) which are required for
 my applications. e.g. there are Enthough and ASPN distributions of
 Python.

 Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the right documentation
 for this purpose.

 Could some one give an overview of what needs to be done for this
 purpose?

 With regards,
  -Shailesh

Are you wanting to create an executable or what? There are a few
different ways to distribute your work. You can use py2exe, GUI2exe (a
py2exe wrapper), PyInstaller, Distutils or Python Eggs.

Here are some links:

http://pyinstaller.python-hosting.com/
http://www.py2exe.org/
http://xoomer.alice.it/infinity77/main/GUI2Exe.html
http://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs

That should get you started.

Mike

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Re: setuptools without unexpected downloads

[kyosohma]

On Sep 27, 10:44 am, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  What would it entail to do this? Using py2exe + some installer (like
  Inno Setup) to create an installer that basically copies/installs the
  files into the site-packages folder or wherever the user chooses?

 if the setup.py file is properly built, python setup.py bdist_wininst
 builds an installer that does exactly that.

 ideally, someone doing this would:

 1) build EXE installers and EGG:s for a reasonable number of Python
 versions (e.g. 2.3 and newer) for selected releases.  if possible, using
 the same compilers as used for the python.org core distribution.

 2) test the installers in some way (at least some kind of sanity
 checking is necessary; i.e. installing the kit and checking that the
 core modules can at least be imported).

 3) if necessary, work with upstream providers to fix/improve setup.py
 and test code.

 /F

Mr. Lundh,

Holden indicates that VS2003 is the current compiler used for the
official Python distribution. Do you know how to use that program to
compile an exe? I'm assuming the line python setup.py bdist_wininst
isn't sufficient since it was an answer to my somewhat naive question.

Thanks,

Mike

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Re: I earn $36800 a month with google adsense

[alain]

On 2 okt, 03:41, panguohua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10 1 ,   8 06 , panguohua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  On 10 1 ,   1 13 , panguohua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  www.space666.com

   a good website for making money with your blog.more information there

  support!
  !

 good

Wow ! I have a question though.

If you really make $38600 a month, how come you even bother to spam
us?

Alain

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Re: Inheriting from int or long

[Diez B. Roggisch]

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I started creating a simple bits class, intended to act like a array
 of bits. This was my initial idea, basically just overriding the
 string representation to display the bitmask (so far):
 
 class bits(long):
 def __str__ (self):
 s = ''
 if self == 0L:
 s += '-'
 else:
 x = self
 while x = 1:
 if x  1L: s = '#' + s
 else:  s = '-' + s
 x = 1
 return s
 
 My thought was this will act like a Long, and so should act like an
 array of bits with arbitrary precision, supporting the standard
 bitwise operations, along with others I may add.
 
 import bits
 b = bits.bits(32)
 b
 32L
 print b
 #-
 b = bits.bits(35)
 print b
 #---##
 b = bits.bits(36)
 print b
 #--#--
 b = 1
 print b
 72
 
 So obviously when I attempt a bitwise operation (ex. b = 1), b is
 being assigned the result of b  1, which is a Long.
 
 b = bits.bits(36)
 type(b)
 class 'bits.bits'
 type (b  1)
 type 'long'
 
 Is there any way around this without reimplementing all of the bitwise
 operators? It's not the biggest deal to reimplement the operators, but
 it kind of defeats the benefit of inheriting from an integer type.

No, there isn't. How is the existing operation of the operator going to know
that you want an instance of bits instead of long? It can't possibly know
that, even if it looked at the class of one or even both of it's operands:
it could be that instantiating a bits-object needed a reference to
TheCommonApplicationContextThingy or so
 
 If there isn't a way around this, then I am curious in what situations
 it would be beneficial to inherit from an int or long. This issue
 seems more related to numeric types, since they are so centered around
 operations that involve assignment, as opposed to, say, a List, which
 has some operators (ex. +=), but does not depend on them (ex. use
 append() instead).

It's beneficial if you want special behavior - but I don't see how the
requirement of overloading the methods to make thinks work affect the grade
of beneficiality.

Diez
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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[Kevin Walzer]

bramble wrote:

 
 Maybe a better question is, how has Tk managed to keep beating up the
 newer, more modern, more featureful, better documented toolkits
 encroaching on his territory? What's Tk's secret weapon?
 

Wouldn't license compatability be an issue? Tk's license is BSD-style, 
which means it plays nice with both proprietary and open-source software 
(as does Python's license). Aren't PyGtk and wxPython LGPL? And PyQt is 
either GPL or proprietary.

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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access __doc__ from within function without reference to function name

[SanPy]

The subject of this message might be a little cryptic, so here's an
example of what I mean:

def foo():
doc string of foo
print foo.__doc__

 foo()
doc string of foo

What I want to know is whether it is possible to call __doc__ against
some builtin method, like __func__ or something like that. So calling
__doc__ without the functions name, something like this:

def foo():
doc string of foo
print __func__.__doc__ # pseudo code

So basically, my question is: is there a way to access a function from
within itself without using its name?

Regards, Sander.

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Re: file open dialog from within PythonWin

[kyosohma]

On Oct 2, 7:56 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I want to open a file seach dialog from within my python script which
 I run from within PythonWin. I also have the wxPython package
 installed.

 How might I do this?

 Thanks,

 Aine

Aine,

I recommend downloading the wxPython Demo as it shows how to do most
common tasks and a lot of other cool things as well. It includes code
for common dialogs, such as the FileDialog, which is what I think you
want. The man page for this widget is below:

http://www.wxpython.org/docs/api/wx.FileDialog-class.html

You can find the Demo here: http://www.wxpython.org/download.php

Mike

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Re: file open dialog from within PythonWin

[kyosohma]

On Oct 2, 7:56 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I want to open a file seach dialog from within my python script which
 I run from within PythonWin. I also have the wxPython package
 installed.

 How might I do this?

 Thanks,

 Aine

Oh yeah. You might find this helpful too:

http://wiki.wxpython.org/Getting_Started

Mike

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random keypress bounce in a terminal

[István]

Hi all,
I'm a novice in the world of Python and to begin with something useful I 
want to create a small tool for my microcontroller work. So I wrote a 
binary file compare (called bfc). It is just a few lines and put here 
with two sample files: http://www.evoran.hu/tmp
I have found a keypress handler and built into my program. It works fine 
as long as I hit keys normally, but gives extra characterts if I keep 
pressing some key, e.g. up or down arrow keys. It runs on a Linux system.
What's the wrong with it?
Thanks for any help,
István

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Re: python 2.5 and 3gb switch

[Magnus Lycka]

neil wrote:
 I see python is not really there for 64 bit yet but most of the people 

I think you mean Windows is not really there for 64 bit yet.
Python works well on real 64 bit operating system. Blender
does too I presume.
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Re: access __doc__ from within function without reference to function name

[Duncan Booth]

SanPy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So basically, my question is: is there a way to access a function from
 within itself without using its name?
 
Not really, no. Python is executing a code block, it has no idea which 
function referenced that code block.

You can get the current code object quite easily (inspect.currentframe
().f_code), but the reference from function to code is one way: a single 
code object could be used by multiple functions.

You can get the source code though, so if you are desperate enough you 
could try parsing the source code to extract the docstring:

   print inspect.getsource(inspect.currentframe())

Use the name of the function, that's the best way.
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Re: Why doesn't Python's robotparser like Wikipedia's robots.txt file?

[Filip Salomonsson]

On 02/10/2007, John Nagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But there's something in there now that robotparser doesn't like.
 Any ideas?

Wikipedia denies _all_ access for the standard urllib user agent, and
when the robotparser gets a 401 or 403 response when trying to fetch
robots.txt, it is equivalent to Disallow: *.

http://infix.se/2006/05/17/robotparser

It could also be worth mentioning that if you were planning on
crawling a lot of Wikipedia pages, you may be better off downloading
the whole thing instead: http://download.wikimedia.org/
(perhaps adding http://code.google.com/p/wikimarkup/ to convert the
wiki markup to HTML).
-- 
filip salomonsson
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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[Terry Reedy]

bramble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| I don't know... As I meant to imply above, it's looking like Tkinter
| will be playing its expected role in Py3k as the GUI toolkit of
| choice. And from what I've seen of the Py3k effort, there's been
| really excellent work on pulling out stuff that should be pulled out.
| So, if it was *really* simply only first-mover advantage keeping it
| there, I'd expect to see talk of removing it from the standard
| library.

First, the 3.0a1 release put off modification of the stdlib.  Second, Guido 
wants to distribute a minimal development environment - Idle - and that is 
written in TKinter.  Third, I have not seen a formal proposal from the 
authors of any other GUI toolkit that such replace TKinter or even 
supplement it.  There are disadvantages as well as advantages to having 
one's work in the stdlib.



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Adding behaviour for managing task dependencies

[m . pricejones]

Hi,

I'm currently writing an animation pipeline in Python which is a
system for controlling the flow of work and assets for a team of
people working on a computer animated film. The system will be fairly
large with a database backend.

One particular problem that I'd like to address is the need for
managing dependent tasks. Often you need to process one particular set
of information before starting on another so when you batch them all
together and send them off to a set of computers to process you need
some way of formulating the dependencies. This preferably ends up
looking a lot like a Makefile in the end with syntax a bit like:

task task_name (dependencies):
commands to complete the task
...

Where the dependencies are a list of other tasks that need to be
completed first.

However I'd really like to do it in Python, but I'm thinking I'd might
need to extend Python a bit in order to achieve the new syntax. I've
seen attempts to do this within the Python syntax (Scons and buildIt)
and I'm not a big fan of the way it ends up looking. I've worked at a
place that has written it's own language to handle that sort of thing
but then you end up with a language that is good for that but rubbish
at everything else. Python seems like a good basis if I could tweak it
slightly.

One particular point that interests me is the idea of maintaining
compatibility with Python modules so you still have all the
functionality. This makes me think of the from __future__ import ...
statements which, if I understand them correctly, can introduce new
syntax like the with_statement, whilst still maintaining compatibility
with older modules?

Is this correct? Can anyone write a syntax changing module or is
__future__ a hard coded special case? I realise I'll have to get into
the C side of things for this. Are there other approaches to this that
I really should be considering instead?

Any thoughts would be most appreciated, though I would like to stress
that I don't think Python should support the syntax I'm proposing I'd
just like to know if I can extend a copy of it to do that.

Mike

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Re: access __doc__ from within function without reference to function name

[Tim Chase]

 The subject of this message might be a little cryptic, so here's an
 example of what I mean:
 
 def foo():
 doc string of foo
 print foo.__doc__
 
 foo()
 doc string of foo
 
 What I want to know is whether it is possible to call __doc__ against
 some builtin method, like __func__ or something like that. So calling
 __doc__ without the functions name, something like this:
 
 def foo():
 doc string of foo
 print __func__.__doc__ # pseudo code
 
 So basically, my question is: is there a way to access a function from
 within itself without using its name?


Well, I don't know if it's the best way to do it, but the 
following code I just threw together does the trick for me:

###
A module docstring
import inspect
def get_doc_string():
   frame = inspect.stack()[1]
   funcname = frame[3]
   try: # for straight functions
 return eval(funcname).__doc__
   except:
 locals = frame[0].f_locals
 try: # for object methods
   return getattr(locals[self], funcname).__doc__
 except:
   try: # for class and module docstrings
 return locals[__doc__]
   except:
 print If you got here, there's something I missed
 import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
 return funcname

if __name__ == __main__:

   def outer_function():
 A function docstring
 s = get_doc_string()
 print s
 return s

   class Foo(object):
 A class docstring
 zip = get_doc_string()
 def bar(self):
   A method's docstring
   s = get_doc_string()
   print s
   return s

   def f1(func):
 this is f1
 s = func()
 print s
 return s

   test = outer_function()
   assert test == A function docstring
   foo = Foo()
   assert foo.bar() == A method's docstring
   print Foo.zip
   assert Foo.zip == A class docstring
   module_docstring = get_doc_string()
   print module_docstring
   assert module_docstring == A module docstring
   assert f1(get_doc_string) == this is f1

###

I couldn't find a handy way to get the actual 
function-object/class-object/module/method object for the given 
context without the convoluted try/except block.  Perhaps someone 
with more knowledge of the inspect module could reudce that do 
something far more simple.  There may also be problems if this is 
imported across modules.  But this might help point you in the 
right direction.

-tkc




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Re: sorteddict [was a PEP proposal, but isn't anymore!]

[Terry Reedy]

Duncan Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Subclassing doesn't have to imply a common implementation, just a common
| interface.

True, but in Python, subclassing is usually done to reuse implementation. 
Interface subclassing is usually from a common abstract base class (which 
will be better supported in Py3).. 



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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[jim-on-linux]

On Monday 01 October 2007 21:04, bramble wrote:
 What is the backstory to why Python includes Tk bindings, as
 opposed to some other set of bindings?

 I've written a few little Tkinter-based apps, and it's nice and
 simple. I like it well enough. That said though, I keep feeling the
 gravitational pull toward GTK+. I've been meaning to get the whole
 glade+gtk+python thing happening with my own projects, as soon as
 time allows. Is there resistance in the upper Python echelons to
 GTK because of its LGPL licensing?

 Reading Alex's Nutshell book, right off the bat he comments that
 The most popular Python GUI toolkit today is probably wxPython.
 But then he goes on for 45 pages on Tkinter... Seems like he wanted
 to write that chapter on wx instead...

 WxWidgets, the last time I looked at it, seemed awfully like MS
 Window's MFC. The licensing seemed vague at the time, and it looks
 like wx contains an extra layer of GUI library, so I didn't spend
 any real time on it. But, regardless, it seems to get good press
 among python folk (I think I remember ESR noting how it was his GUI
 toolkit of choice).

 PyQt has had that issue (IIRC) about needing to pay for it for
 commercial apps, so I can see how there might be resistance to it
 being considered the standard Python GUI toolkit.

 So, it would seem to me that Tkinter *might* remain in Python
 proper, but that I probably wouldn't see much effort put into it.
 Well, the Python standard library docs tell a different story.
 There's stuff in there about Tix, ScrolledText, turtle, and then
 the other GUI packages doc page goes on about Python megawidgets
 (Tk-based) and Tkinter3000 Widget Construction Kit (WCK). Wow.
 Looks like Tkinter is still having serious support -- even though
 in that same doc at the bottom notes, PyGTK, PyQt, and wxPython,
 all have a modern look and feel and far more widgets and better
 documentation than Tkinter.

 So, that leaves me wondering, why is Tkinter still getting so much
 focus in the Python standard library?

 Maybe a better question is, how has Tk managed to keep beating up
 the newer, more modern, more featureful, better documented toolkits
 encroaching on his territory? What's Tk's secret weapon?

Tkinter's secret weapon are pgmrs like me that would rather put 
pressure on the Tk people to improve what already is working.  Update 
and improve Tk, change the look and feel of it, add features.  Let me 
spend my time programming not trying to make existing programs 
compatible with the unknown. (Some change to who knows what.)   

On the other hand, questions like yours are exactly what keeps the 
pressure on the Tkinter people to upgrade.  I think they got the 
message with the recent announcement of some long awaited changes. 
 

jim-on-linux
http://inqvista.com













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Dictionary invalid token error

[brad]

This works:

  area_group = {001:06, 002:04, 003:04, 006:9}

This does not (one the end, 09 is used instead of 9)

  area_group = {001:06, 002:04, 003:04, 006:09}
   File stdin, line 1
 area_group = {001:06, 002:04, 003:04, 006:09}
SyntaxError: invalid token

Why does 09 cause an invalid token while 9 does not?

###

Python 2.4.4 (#2, Apr  5 2007, 18:43:10)
[GCC 4.1.2 20061115 (prerelease) (Debian AMD64 4.1.1-21)] on linux2



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Re: Dictionary invalid token error

[Tim Chase]

 This works:
 
   area_group = {001:06, 002:04, 003:04, 006:9}
 
 This does not (one the end, 09 is used instead of 9)
 
   area_group = {001:06, 002:04, 003:04, 006:09}
File stdin, line 1
  area_group = {001:06, 002:04, 003:04, 006:09}
 SyntaxError: invalid token
 
 Why does 09 cause an invalid token while 9 does not?

Numbers with leading zeros are parsed as octal.  8 and 9 are 
invalid digits in octal.  Thus, it falls over.  00 through 07 
will work fine, but 08 and 09 will go kaput.

http://docs.python.org/ref/integers.html

-tkc



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Re: Dictionary invalid token error

[Richard Brodie]

brad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Why does 09 cause an invalid token while 9 does not?

9 isn't a valid octal digit. You probably want to use strings for
storing telephone number like codes, if leading zeroes are
significant. 


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Re: How popular is Django ?

[Terry Reedy]

Thomas Guettler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

| comp.lang.python is a usenet group.

which means that it is independently hosted on newsservers around the 
world.
It is also a mailing list hosted by python.org and a gmane group.

|django-users is a mailinglist hosted by google.

|The number of django-users subscribers can be calculated by google.
|But the number of comp.lang.python users can only be guessed.

Unless Google claims otherwise, I would assume that '11000' is only the 
number of people who access c.l.p via Google.  And if they did so claim, I 
would want to see the algorithm before giving it any credence.

tjr



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Re: Dictionary invalid token error

[brad]

Tim Chase wrote:
 Numbers with leading zeros are parsed as octal.  8 and 9 are invalid 
 digits in octal.  Thus, it falls over.  00 through 07 will work fine, 
 but 08 and 09 will go kaput.
 
 http://docs.python.org/ref/integers.html
 
 -tkc

Thanks... that makes sense. I'll store them as strings.
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Re: Why doesn't Python's robotparser like Wikipedia's robots.txt file?

[John Nagle]

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Nagle
 wrote:
 
 For some reason, Python's parser for robots.txt files
 doesn't like Wikipedia's robots.txt file:

   import robotparser
   url = 'http://wikipedia.org/robots.txt'
   chk = robotparser.RobotFileParser()
   chk.set_url(url)
   chk.read()
   testurl = 'http://wikipedia.org'
   chk.can_fetch('Mozilla', testurl)
 False
  
 
  chk.errcode
 403
 
 Significant?
 
Helpful.  Also an undocumented feature.  See

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-robotparser.html

John Nagle
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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[Chris Mellon]

On 10/1/07, bramble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What is the backstory to why Python includes Tk bindings, as opposed
 to some other set of bindings?

 I've written a few little Tkinter-based apps, and it's nice and
 simple. I like it well enough. That said though, I keep feeling the
 gravitational pull toward GTK+. I've been meaning to get the whole
 glade+gtk+python thing happening with my own projects, as soon as time
 allows. Is there resistance in the upper Python echelons to GTK
 because of its LGPL licensing?

 Reading Alex's Nutshell book, right off the bat he comments that The
 most popular Python GUI toolkit today is probably wxPython. But then
 he goes on for 45 pages on Tkinter... Seems like he wanted to write
 that chapter on wx instead...

 WxWidgets, the last time I looked at it, seemed awfully like MS
 Window's MFC. The licensing seemed vague at the time, and it looks
 like wx contains an extra layer of GUI library, so I didn't spend any
 real time on it. But, regardless, it seems to get good press among
 python folk (I think I remember ESR noting how it was his GUI toolkit
 of choice).

 PyQt has had that issue (IIRC) about needing to pay for it for
 commercial apps, so I can see how there might be resistance to it
 being considered the standard Python GUI toolkit.

 So, it would seem to me that Tkinter *might* remain in Python proper,
 but that I probably wouldn't see much effort put into it. Well, the
 Python standard library docs tell a different story. There's stuff in
 there about Tix, ScrolledText, turtle, and then the other GUI
 packages doc page goes on about Python megawidgets (Tk-based) and
 Tkinter3000 Widget Construction Kit (WCK). Wow. Looks like Tkinter is
 still having serious support -- even though in that same doc at the
 bottom notes, PyGTK, PyQt, and wxPython, all have a modern look and
 feel and far more widgets and better documentation than Tkinter.

 So, that leaves me wondering, why is Tkinter still getting so much
 focus in the Python standard library?

 Maybe a better question is, how has Tk managed to keep beating up the
 newer, more modern, more featureful, better documented toolkits
 encroaching on his territory? What's Tk's secret weapon?


Tk is stable, slow moving, highly portable, and liberally licensed.
It's not very good except for that, but those are very important
characteristics for something in the standard library. You'll note
that Tix and the various other Tk expansion packs aren't in the
stdlib.

wxPython is LGPL with a binary linking exception - there's no license
ambiguity there - but it develops far too fast to be in the stdlib.

PyQt is GPL or commercial only and I wouldn't consider that suitable
for a standard library package.

PyGtk has poor cross platform support, a very large footprint (the
largest of all these libraries) as well as a complicated runtime
environment. It's probably the closest to suitable   for standard
library inclusion, but it doesn't have the binary linking exemption
that wxPython does (theres some question as to how needed that is for
Python code, though) and it's got no compelling API advantage over Tk.
If you want to trade the large footprint for the more advanced
toolkit, thats an option you have but I don't think it's a suitable
standard library decision.
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Subprocesses on Windows

[Nachiket Joshi]

Hey Guys!

Well before I explain my problem, let me tell you all that I am not a 
professional programmer and new to python too. I just write some scripts as and 
when required and this time it seems I am stuck somewhere in trying to create 
subprocesses.

The problem is something like this. I am trying to run nmap scan on my 
network and for that I want to start multiple nmap instances (256 at once) 
togather and wait till those 256 are over before I start next lot of 256 
instances. Well to test I have put in two nmap scans in my program and I have 
succeeded to start both of them simultaneously (in fact one after another) by 
using subprocess module and Popen.  But the problem is when I run a loop to 
start both of these nmap instances, they do start BUT the script then exits to 
command prompt completing all the executions. But this is not what I want. I 
want to wait till both of these nmap processes are finished and then only exit 
from script (in fact exit from that function or loop). Then only I would be 
able to call next lot of IP Ranges to scan. I did try os.waitpid() but it gives 
following error while running the program:

###
[10172, 'None']This is the variable where I am 
storing process IDs
###
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:\python\inscan.py, line 121, in module
clas_b()
  File C:\python\inscan.py, line 92, in clas_b
wpid, sts = os.waitpid(retval[i], 0) and passing here to 
os.waitpid
OSError: [Errno 10] No child processes
 

I hope you guys understood! I am pasting my function here. Just have a look 
and suggest something for that. I heard fork() is not supported for windows and 
that's why I used 'subprocess module'. 

def clas_b():
i = 0
IP = ((10,50,89,0,24), (10,50,90,0,24))
retval = ['None', 'None']

for k in IP:
b1 = k[0]; b2 = k[1]; b3 = k[2]
b4 = k[3]; mkb = k[4]

# Call the subprocess using convenience method
#retval[i] = subprocess.call(clas_c(b1, b2, b3, b4, mkb), 0, None, 
None, \
# outptr[i], errptr[i], shell=True)

 # clas_c actually runs Nmap command and stores results in an output 
file
 retval[i] = int(subprocess.Popen(clas_c(b1, b2, b3, b4, mkb), \
 shell=True).pid)
print ###
print retval
print ###

 while 1:
wpid, sts = os.waitpid(retval[i], 0)
if os.WIFSTOPPED(sts):
continue   
 I don't know anything about this
elif os.WIFSIGNALED(sts): I just 
found this somewhere and
return -WTERMSIG(sts)  pasted to 
my program for to test
elif os.WIFEXITED(sts):
return os.WEXITSTATUS(sts)
else:
raise error, Not stopped, signaled or exited???
 
i += 1

Thanks,
Nachiket Joshi


   

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
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Re: Why doesn't Python's robotparser like Wikipedia's robots.txt file?

[John Nagle]

Filip Salomonsson wrote:
 On 02/10/2007, John Nagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 But there's something in there now that robotparser doesn't like.
 Any ideas?
 
 Wikipedia denies _all_ access for the standard urllib user agent, and
 when the robotparser gets a 401 or 403 response when trying to fetch
 robots.txt, it is equivalent to Disallow: *.
 
 http://infix.se/2006/05/17/robotparser

 That explains it.  It's an undocumented feature of robotparser,
as is the 'errcode' variable.  The documentation of robotparser is
silent on error handling (can it raise an exception?) and should be
updated.

 It could also be worth mentioning that if you were planning on
 crawling a lot of Wikipedia pages, you may be better off downloading
 the whole thing instead: http://download.wikimedia.org/
 (perhaps adding http://code.google.com/p/wikimarkup/ to convert the
 wiki markup to HTML).

 This is for SiteTruth, the site rating system (see sitetruth.com),
and we never look at more than 21 pages per site.  We're looking for
the name and address of the business behind the web site, and if we
can't find that after looking in 20 of the most obvious places to
look, it's either not there or not prominently disclosed.

John Nagle
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Re: win32com COMAdminCatalogObject Value method

[rc]

 Try objCOMAdminCatalogObject.SetValue(ID, AppID).

  Roger- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

When I try that I get exception:
AttributeError: Add.SetValue

I think the only valid methods are: Key(), Name(), Valid() and Value()

The thing I'm most confused about is that it seems to be getting into
the __getattr__ method, not the set, here's the whole error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:\programming\python\dev\src\FullInstallScripts
\COMObjectFullInstall.py, line 74, in module
CreateApplication()
  File C:\programming\python\dev\src\FullInstallScripts
\COMObjectFullInstall.py, line 21, in CreateApplication
objCOMAdminCatalogObject.SetValue(ID, AppID)
  File C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py,
line 496, in __getattr__
raise AttributeError, %s.%s % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: Add.SetValue

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Question on overriding implicit lookups

[David Ells]

In Python we have a wonderful facility for customizing attribute
access by defining __getattr__ or __getattribute__ in our classes.
Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, for reasons I don't know), this
facility only works for explicit attribute access, i.e. accessing
foo.bar. What I am in need of, for reasons I'll keep out of the
discussion for now, is a similar facility for implicit attribute
access, such as the call to foo.__len__ when something like len(foo)
is executed. I would like some way to customize access during these
implicit lookups without having to define each one in the class
myself. Essentially what I am looking for is a mechanism like
__getattribute__, only one that will work for these implicit lookups
to functions like __len__, __str__, __getitem__, and so on. Hopefully
my question makes sense.

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Re: access __doc__ from within function without reference to function name

[Duncan Booth]

Tim Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So basically, my question is: is there a way to access a function from
 within itself without using its name?
 
 
 Well, I don't know if it's the best way to do it, but the 
 following code I just threw together does the trick for me:

The original request was to do it without using the function's name, but 
you are depending on that name so your code is easy enough to break. e.g. 
change the definition of f1 to:

   def f2(func):
 this is f1
 s = func()
 print s
 return s
   f1 = f2
   del f2
   
and the output is:

A function docstring
A method's docstring
A class docstring
A module docstring
If you got here, there's something I missed
 c:\temp\docstring.py(18)get_doc_string()
- return funcname
(Pdb)
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Re: ANN: PyPE 2.8.7

[Josiah Carlson]

On Sep 26, 12:50 am, stef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 thebjorn wrote:
  On Sep 25, 12:37 pm, stef [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Josiah Carlson wrote:

  === What isPyPE? ===
 PyPE(Python Programmers' Editor) was written in order to offer a
  lightweight but powerful editor for those who think emacs is too much
  and idle is too little. Syntax highlighting is included out of the box,
  as is multiple open documents via tabs.

  sounds very good,
  so now I want to try it ...
  ... the windows ansi zip file is corrupted :-(
  ... the unicode version crashes :-(

  This is what the log file tells:
  Traceback (most recent call last):
File pype.py, line 110, in ?
File zipextimporter.pyc, line 78, in load_module
File configuration.pyc, line 149, in ?
  Exception: Unable to create config directory: 'G:\\.pype'

  I don't have a G-drive ;-)

  cheers,
  Stef Mientki

  You must be doing it wrong.

 Of course ;-)
 but what am I doing wrong ?
 cheers,
 Stef

  Works flawlessly for me (no g: drive here
  either) -- well, except that it doesn't have Emacs keybindings wink.

  -- bjorn

We ended up emailing directly.  His problems were related to less-than-
correct HOME, USERPROFILE, HOMEDRIVE, and/or HOMEPATH values.

When such things happen, users can either fix their profile paths, or
run PyPE with --standalone, which will force the profile path to be
the same path as the path that PyPE is running out of.

Also, the original PyPE 2.8.7 ansi upload was incomplete, which I
remedied shortly thereafter (and later replaced with PyPE 2.8.8).

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Re: Inheriting from int or long

[Terry Reedy]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|I started creating a simple bits class, intended to act like a array
| of bits. This was my initial idea, basically just overriding the
| string representation to display the bitmask (so far):

For this purpose, for the reason you discovered, simply writing a bit_rep 
function would likely be better ;-)

[discovery of need to override possibly all of long's special methods]

|| Is there any way around this without reimplementing all of the bitwise
| operators? It's not the biggest deal to reimplement the operators, but
| it kind of defeats the benefit of inheriting from an integer type.

Since the code needed is mostly boilerplate, I think the standard Python 
distribution could and should contain builtin type subclass template files, 
at least for int/long/float for the reasons you give below.

| If there isn't a way around this, then I am curious in what situations
| it would be beneficial to inherit from an int or long.

As I already said, if you only want to change __str__, consider a 
standalone function. If you want to change the behavior of any of the 
operations and still tie into the syntax, then the alternative, wrapping 
the builtin, may be worse.

class mysub(int):
...
def __add__(self, other): return mysub(self,other)

versus

class mywrap():
def __init__(self,dat):
self._int = dat # should test type
def __add__(self, other): return mywrap(self._int + other._int)

| This issue
| seems more related to numeric types, since they are so centered around
| operations that involve assignment, as opposed to, say, a List, which
| has some operators (ex. +=), but does not depend on them (ex. use
| append() instead).

Terry Jan Reedy



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Re: I earn $36800 a month with google adsense

[panguohua]

I am only a publisher!!!


really it is useful

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Re: random keypress bounce in a terminal

[Bjoern Schliessmann]

István wrote:

 It works fine as long as I hit keys normally, but gives extra
 characterts if I keep pressing some key, e.g. up or down arrow
 keys. It runs on a Linux system. What's the wrong with it?

Nothing. Linux VTs will generate multiple characters for special
keys.

Regards,


Björn

-- 
BOFH excuse #258:

That's easy to fix, but I can't be bothered.

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Re: I earn $36800 a month with google adsense

[Diez B. Roggisch]

 
 Wow ! I have a question though.
 
 If you really make $38600 a month, how come you even bother to spam
 us?

Please, don't reply - and especially, don't reply quoting the spammer's
site, so his page-rank inncreases...

diez
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Re: Can you please give me some advice?

[Thorsten Kampe]

* Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
 (snip)
  I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
  program is
  
  puts 'Hello, World!'
  
  whereas the Python Hello World program is
  
  print 'Hello, World!'
  
  suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print
  has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
  but puts just doesn't.
 
 Hem Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python 
 I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less 
 intuitive than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail 
 is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string' 
 (implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct 
 than what 'print' implies.

You missed the point. puts for printing something to stdout is 
definitely a bad name for this operation. I mean put string (even 
abbreviated) what does that mean?

On the other hand it does not mean that Python ist more intuitive than 
Ruby - only the printing to stdout is more intuitive.
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toprettyxml messes up with whitespaces

[Jorgen Bodde]

Hi all,

I parse an XML file, replace a node with a new one (like updating
cache) and write it back. Every write, new spaces are added. For
example, first read - update - write cycle;

var name=APPNAME status=undefined
 My First App   
/var

Second cycle:

var name=APPNAME status=undefined
 My First App   

/var

Third cycle:

var name=APPNAME status=undefined
   My First App 

/var


And this goes on. The node is one that is not touched in the XML, it
is simply written back after reading. I have the same with void spaces
in between the nodes, I managed to compensate that by stripping the
lines.

I would like to use toprettyxml to make it user editable and viewable.
But this is really weird. How can I circumvent this behaviour?

regards,
- Jorgen
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Re: Using fractions instead of floats

[Arnaud Delobelle]

On Oct 2, 12:42 pm, Neil Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 2007-10-01, Arnaud Delobelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Scheme has prefix numeric operators, so that 1/2 is
  unambiguously (for the interpreter and the user) a litteral for
  'the fraction 1/2'. You can't avoid the confusion in python, as
  binary operators are infix. Of course, we could create a new
  kind of litteral.  Let's see, / and // are already operators,
  so why not use /// ? ;)

 But you wouldn't actually need a literal rational represention.

In which case rationals are better off in a module than in the
language!

 But I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here; I like rationals in
 Scheme and Lisp, but I don't see a need for them in Python.

 On the other hand, Python has had complex numbers a long time,
 and it doesn't need those more than rationals, does it? My guess
 is that it got complex numbers but not rationals because
 rationals just aren't very efficient.

Another guess could be that real numbers being closed under the four
arithmetic operations, there is no danger to accidentally step into
complex numbers. OTOH floats and rationals are two (conflicting) ways
of extending integers.

 But as a programmer, I'm mostly just a data-twiddler, and don't
 generally need either of those numeric type in my day-to-day
 work. So I'm not the guy to ask. ;)

I use rationals a lot, and I don't want them in the language :)

--
Arnaud


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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Frank Goenninger]

On 2007-10-01 23:37:28 +0200, Wildemar Wildenburger 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

 Frank Goenninger wrote:
 On 2007-09-29 01:27:04 +0200, Damien Kick [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 
 If you were referring to the free in free Mumia Abu Jamal, I would 
 agree with you.  I don't think anyone would imagine that this phrase 
 meant that someone was going to get Mumia Abu Jamal gratis.  Like it or 
 not, free software referring to free as in beer is probably the 
 most common interpretation of the phrase for a native English speaker. 
 Admittedly, I do not have a scientific survey handy.  However, I just 
 asked my wife--who has absolutely no interest in anything related to 
 programming, has never heard of the FSF, Eric Raymond, nor the 
 disagreement between those two camps, nor probably will she ever have 
 an interest--what she thinks I mean when I say free software.  After 
 getting over the why are you asking such a stupid question phase, the 
 first thing that jumped to her mind was free as in beer.  You can 
 stamp, growl, swagger, spit, curse, and bluster all you want on this 
 point, but millions of English speakers are going to ignore you anyway. 
   Lucky for most of them, they do not have to suffer the lectures of 
 sociopolitically motivated language mavens trying to correct them 
 from the error of mistaking the meaning of a phrase to be the normal 
 meaning of that phrase.
 
 Fully true for non-native English speakers as well. Just did the wife 
 test also - she is a pure software user - and yes, free is no money, 
 do what you want and that's it.
 
 I *never* use the term free if I don't want to imply free beer 
 (which is a Good Thing and as such highly valuated - ask any Bavarian). 
 Using free as by FSF or any other lawyer-style 6 pixel font printed 
 phrasing is pure perfidiousness.
 
 I appearantly missed a lot of that conversation, but what is your 
 point? While I agree that the word free implies free of monetary 
 cost to many people societies, that is by no means set in stone (talk 
 to native americans, blacks, jews, palestinians, etc. about the word 
 free, see what they have to say).
 
 But that aside: The word free with respect to the FSF and GPL have a 
 perfectly well defined meaning. People may misunderstand that from not 
 knowing the definition but that doesnt make it any less well defined.
 
 Again, why this discussion?
 /W

Well, I didn't start the discussion. So you should ask the OP about the 
why. I jumped in when I came across the so often mentioned hey, it's 
all well defined statement was brought in. I simply said that if that 
well-definedness is against common understanding then I don't give 
a damn about that clever definitions. Because I have to know that there 
are such definitions - always also knowing that free is not really 
free. It is such a good subject to discuss over and over and over 
without ever reaching any conclusion or resolution because neither FSF 
nor GNU nor the FREE as in FREE BEER defenders will change their mind. 
So, wasting bandwith is the only real effect ... And hey, it's Usenet, 
so wasting time and bandwith is part of the game.

Again, why this discussion - ah - I don't really know...

;-)

-- 
  Frank Goenninger

  frgo(at)goenninger(dot)net

  Don't ask me! I haven't been reading comp.lang.lisp long enough to 
really know ...



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Re: access __doc__ from within function without reference to function name

[Tim Chase]

 The original request was to do it without using the function's
 name, but you are depending on that name so your code is easy
 enough to break. e.g. change the definition of f1 to:
 
def f2(func):
  this is f1
  s = func()
  print s
  return s
f1 = f2
del f2

Even Python-proper seems to get confused by this (though I 
would contend it's correct behavior):


===
   def f1():
raise Exception
   f2 = f1
   del(f1)
   f2()
===


The traceback references f1() instead of f2. (other printing than 
the calling line of code from the python file itself)


===
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File x.py, line 5, in ?
 f2()
   File x.py, line 2, in f1
 raise Exception
Exception
===

pdb suffers the same problem:

===
   def f1():
import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
print 'hello'
   f2 = f1
   del(f1)
   f2()
===


then, when run, use where to ask where Python thinks you are:


===
  c:\temp\z.py(3)f1()
- print 'hello'
(Pdb) where
   c:\temp\z.py(7)?()
- f2()
  c:\temp\z.py(3)f1()
- print 'hello'
===

It thinks we're in f1 as well even though f1 no longer exists.


My understanding was that the OP wanted a way to refrain from 
hard-coding the function-name into the body of the function, 
rather than to completely avoid the name of the function ever 
being used anywhere.

Unless there's a mapping that I couldn't find (that would take 
the current frame and map it to the calling 
function/method/module object) the only way to completely avoid 
this (AFAICT) would be to take the location information returned 
by the stack frame, parse the file, and extract the doc-string 
from the resulting line(s).

It gets hairier when the python is poorly written as one could 
have pessimal cases of valid python docstrings that look like

   def f(x): docstring; return x*2

or

   def f(x):
 docstring; return x*2

or common multiline items like

   def f(x):
 docstring1
 docstring2
 pass

or even worse,

   def f(x):
 this is a \docstring\
 with \\\and\ mutliple lines
 pass

   def f(x):
 this is\
 a docstring
 pass

The parser also has to accomodate raw and unicode string 
prefixes, as they're valid too:

   def f(x):
 rraw!
 pass

   def f(x):
 uUnicode
 pass


in addition. Okay...in most of these cases, the pathological 
coder should be taken out back and beaten, but it's a non-trivial 
problem :)

-tkc




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Re: Adding behaviour for managing task dependencies

[Stargaming]

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:28:35 +, m.pricejones wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I'm currently writing an animation pipeline in Python which is a system
 for controlling the flow of work and assets for a team of people working
 on a computer animated film. The system will be fairly large with a
 database backend.
 
 One particular problem that I'd like to address is the need for managing
 dependent tasks. Often you need to process one particular set of
 information before starting on another so when you batch them all
 together and send them off to a set of computers to process you need
 some way of formulating the dependencies. This preferably ends up
 looking a lot like a Makefile in the end with syntax a bit like:
 
 task task_name (dependencies):
 commands to complete the task
 ...
 
 Where the dependencies are a list of other tasks that need to be
 completed first.
 
 However I'd really like to do it in Python, but I'm thinking I'd might
 need to extend Python a bit in order to achieve the new syntax. I've
 seen attempts to do this within the Python syntax (Scons and buildIt)
 and I'm not a big fan of the way it ends up looking. I've worked at a
 place that has written it's own language to handle that sort of thing
 but then you end up with a language that is good for that but rubbish at
 everything else. 

Doesn't seem too bad if you just want to write down dependencies. Better 
have one tool/language doing it's job perfectly than having a big monster 
tool doing lots of jobs pretty bad.

This is also sometimes called domain-specific languages or `language 
oriented programming http://www.onboard.jetbrains.com/is1/articles/04/10/
lop/`_.

 Python seems like a good basis if I could tweak it slightly.
 
 One particular point that interests me is the idea of maintaining
 compatibility with Python modules so you still have all the
 functionality. 

If you disagreed with my statements above, that's a good point. Would 
make deserialization of those nearly-Makefiles easier, too.

 This makes me think of the from __future__ import ...
 statements which, if I understand them correctly, can introduce new
 syntax like the with_statement, whilst still maintaining compatibility
 with older modules?

I might be wrong here but AFAIK those `__future__` imports just set some 
'compiler' flags. The documentation isn't saying much about the treatment 
of those statements but I guess they're handled internally (since 
__future__.py doesn't seem to do anything at all). See the `module 
documentation http://docs.python.org/lib/module-future.html`_ for 
details.
 
 Is this correct? Can anyone write a syntax changing module or is
 __future__ a hard coded special case? I realise I'll have to get into
 the C side of things for this. Are there other approaches to this that I
 really should be considering instead?

Syntax (as in: grammar) is compiled into the python binary. You can 
change the python source (as it's free) and recompile but, FWIW, I would 
not suggest this. You're _forking_ CPython then and well, this would be 
an additional project to maintain (merging all updates, fixes, releases 
into your fork etc.).

`PyPy http://codespeak.net/pypy/`_ could be slightly easier to adjust 
but still: extra project.

Another approach could be `Logix http://livelogix.net/logix/`_. It's an 
alternate front-end for Python with the ability to change its syntax on-
the-fly. I don't know how actively maintained it is, though.

 Any thoughts would be most appreciated, though I would like to stress
 that I don't think Python should support the syntax I'm proposing I'd
 just like to know if I can extend a copy of it to do that.

As stated above, there are several ways to change Python to support the 
syntax you want but hey, why do you need this? As far as I understood 
you, you want to use *normal* python functions and add dependencies to 
them. First thing popping into my mind is a simple function eg. ``depends
(source, target)`` or ``depends(target)(source)``. The second example 
would have the advantage of adapting neatly into the decorator syntax::

def early_task():
foo()

@depends(early_task)
def late_task():
bar()

The wrapping `depends` function could decide whether `early_task` is done 
already or not (and invoke it, if neccessary) and finally pass through 
the call to `late_task`.

This is just an example how you could use existing syntax to modelize 
dependencies, there are other ways I guess.

HTH,
Stargaming
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Re: module confusion

[Robert Kern]

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert
 Kern wrote:
 
 Not all of the modules in a package are imported by importing the
 top-level package.
 
 You can't import packages, only modules.
 
 os.path is a particularly weird case because it is just an alias to the
 platform-specific path-handling module; os is not a package.
 
 os is a module, os.path is a variable within that module. That's all there
 is to it.

Yes, but os.path is also module. That's why I said it was a weird case.

In [1]: import os

In [2]: type(os.path)
Out[2]: type 'module'

-- 
Robert Kern

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth.
  -- Umberto Eco

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Re: Using fractions instead of floats

[Neil Cerutti]

On 2007-10-02, Arnaud Delobelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Oct 2, 12:42 pm, Neil Cerutti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 2007-10-01, Arnaud Delobelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Scheme has prefix numeric operators, so that 1/2 is
  unambiguously (for the interpreter and the user) a litteral for
  'the fraction 1/2'. You can't avoid the confusion in python, as
  binary operators are infix. Of course, we could create a new
  kind of litteral.  Let's see, / and // are already operators,
  so why not use /// ? ;)

 But you wouldn't actually need a literal rational represention.

 In which case rationals are better off in a module than in the
 language!

I was supposing that 1/2 would result in a rational number, which
would require language support, whether it's a literal rational
number or a division of two integer constants.

 But I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here; I like rationals
 in Scheme and Lisp, but I don't see a need for them in Python.

 On the other hand, Python has had complex numbers a long time,
 and it doesn't need those more than rationals, does it? My
 guess is that it got complex numbers but not rationals because
 rationals just aren't very efficient.

 Another guess could be that real numbers being closed under the
 four arithmetic operations, there is no danger to accidentally
 step into complex numbers. OTOH floats and rationals are two
 (conflicting) ways of extending integers.

You would have to adopt a few simple conversion rules, a la
Scheme. Inexact numbers are contagious, for example. It was
pretty shocking for a Scheme programmer to see the gmpy package
break that rule. ;)

 I use rationals a lot, and I don't want them in the language :)

Fair enough.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
The pastor will preach his farewell message, after which the choir will sing,
Break Forth Into Joy. --Church Bulletin Blooper
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Air Conditioners

[freeaircon]

http://freeaircon.blogspot.com/

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Mysqldb printing sql and params no matter what I do

[Sells, Fred]

I had some code originally that printed the sql and params when I called
the .execute method.  I removed it but it still prints.  I rebooted and
renamed files and still it prints.  I am totally stumped; I tried google
but perhaps didn't use the right search; got a lot of hits but no clues.

I'm using MySQLdb 1.2.2 and python 2.4.4 on XP

here is a snipppet that shows problem.
import MySQLdb
from datetime import *

DBSERVER='localhost'
DBSCHEMA='mds81'
sql = '''SELECT aid  from assessments WHERE xmitdate  between %s AND %s
LIMIT 9'''


class _record:
def __init__(self, adict):self.__dict__=adict

class CaptainQuery:
def __init__(self, host, schema):
self.Connection = MySQLdb.connect (host=host, db=schema)
self.dictcursor =
self.Connection.cursor(cursorclass=MySQLdb.cursors.DictCursor)
print '--before execute'
self.dictcursor.execute(sql, (20070201, 20070630) )
print 'after execute---'
records = self.dictcursor.fetchall()
for r in records: print r

 
Q = CaptainQuery(DBSERVER, DBSCHEMA )

- the output is below-

--before execute
SELECT aid  from assessments WHERE xmitdate  between %s AND %s LIMIT 9
(20070201, 20070630)
after execute---
{'aid': 16711L}
{'aid': 16712L}
{'aid': 16713L}
{'aid': 16715L}
{'aid': 16845L}
{'aid': 16849L}
{'aid': 16850L}
{'aid': 16851L}
{'aid': 16852L}

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Re: Adding behaviour for managing task dependencies

[m . pricejones]

Stargaming:

Thanks, that's given me plenty to think about. Some wise words. I
guess I should appreciate that with my particular goal there aren't
going to be easy solutions but I definitely don't want to dive down
the wrong track if it can be avoided.

Cheers,
Mike

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Re: access __doc__ from within function without reference to function name

[Duncan Booth]

Tim Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The parser also has to accomodate raw and unicode string 
 prefixes, as they're valid too:
 
def f(x):
  rraw!
  pass
 
def f(x):
  uUnicode
  pass
 
 
 in addition. Okay...in most of these cases, the pathological 
 coder should be taken out back and beaten, but it's a non-trivial 
 problem :)

Fortunately someone already wrote a parser for Python code, so it is pretty 
trivial:

 import compiler
 class Visitor(compiler.visitor.ASTVisitor):
def visitFunction(self, node):
print node.doc

 def showdoc(source):
compiler.walk(compiler.parse(source), Visitor())


 showdoc(r'''def f(x):
 this is a \docstring\
 with \\\and\ mutliple lines
 pass
''')
this is a docstring
 with \and mutliple lines
 showdoc(r'''def f(x):
 uUnicode  with concatenation
 pass
''')
Unicode with concatenation
 
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Corrupted C Runtime on app exit via Dispatch

[rsybel]

I'm new to Python, but I am trying to support a product at work. We're
running under Win XP, using Python 2.4.

We're using Python to run optimizations, generating a bunch of test
conditions and having existing products evaluate the solutions.

The programs we're running are MFC apps, built with VS 2003. (Although
they are really old MFC apps). I can run the apps by hand and NEVER
have a problem, only when they are invoked via Python Dispatch.

We invoke a program via Dispatch, run some tests, save the output
file, then tell the program to exit. I've tried various ways to shut
the program down, they don't seem to matter. They all shut down
properly as far as I can tell

The main process has indicated it has exited. The process still exists
in Task Manager for a short while.

After running successfully a few times, the exiting process will
finally crash in HeapFree in free.c. Dissecting the remains, the
heap looks like it's already been freed, or it's subtlely corrupted
(only the Blink and Flink pointers are trashed - memory contents look
good).

The crashing code can be almost anything - boost libraries, core code,
CStrings, etc.  It appears this is C Runtime cleanup on exit, it
ALWAYS crashes in crt0dat.c, in the __onexitbegin cleanup loop.

I trying to get a handle on what's happening. Is this a mismatch
library problem? I've gone through and made everything consistent,
using msvcr71.dll. Is this a Python threading incompatibility with
Windows?

My Python exit code looks (at the moment) like this;

app.ExitApplication()
app=None
collect()
pythoncom.CoUninitialize()

I've imported gc, I was hoping forcing a garbage collection would help
this problem - nothing substantial has come out of that.

At this point, app.ExitApplication closes all documents and processes
a SendMessage(WM_CLOSE,0,0). Nothing fancy.

And, or course, this never happens in Debug mode. Only in release
builds. I've got debug symbols in the main code and in the libraries
we build, but 3rd party DLLs / libs don't have symbols.

Can someone with more Python experience point me in a general
direction?
Thanks

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Re: Combine two dictionary...

[George Sakkis]

On Oct 1, 2:01 pm, Abandoned [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I want to total score..
 For example

   dict1={1: 4,  3: 5}... and 2 millions element
   dict2={3: 3,  8: 6}... and 3 millions element

 result should be dict3={1:4, 3:8, 8:6}

Unless you have some prior knowledge about the dicts (e.g.
len(intersection(d1,d2))), it's hard to beat the following, in pure
Python at least:

def sumdicts(d1,d2):
if len(d1)  len(d2):
d1,d2 = d2,d1
dsum = dict(d1)
for key,value in d2.iteritems():
if key not in dsum:
dsum[key] = value
else:
dsum[key] += value
return dsum

Surprisingly (?), this turns out to be faster than using dict.get(key,
0) instead of the explicit if/else.

George

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Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

Kamen TOMOV wrote:
 On Sun, Sep 30 2007, Klaus Schilling wrote:
 
 ...
 private property is unethical
 
 How I craved to read that!
 
 Viva la revolution! 
 
 Ест человек - ест проблем,
 Нет человек - нет проблем!
 
 The End justify the means!
 
 Long live communism! 
 
ENDUT! HOCH HECH!
- Крусти Отменен, Сфир Ет. Ѕеqонж

/W
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Re: Creating a custom python python distribution

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

shailesh wrote:
 Hi,
 I wish to create a Python distribution includind Python and some other
 libraries (Zope 3, PyWin32, numpy, lxml, etc.) which are required for
 my applications. e.g. there are Enthough and ASPN distributions of
 Python.
 
 Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the right documentation
 for this purpose.
 
 Could some one give an overview of what needs to be done for this
 purpose?
 
I can guess, nothing more.

You could use Inno Setup (windows guy?) 
URL:http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php to install python and then 
automatically all additional libs.

And that is a general idea ... just automate the installing of all libs. 
It may even boil down to just copying the additional files to the 
site-packages directory.

I don't know, but some experimentation should get you long way. It 
shouldn't be very hard.

/W
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Re: I earn $36800 a month with google adsense

[Wildemar Wildenburger]

panguohua wrote:
 I am only a publisher!!!
 
 
 really it is useful
 
Wow! That has got to be the first response by a spammer with some form 
of meaningful remark. I'm impressed.

Dude, you, even as a spammer, can learn a lot from this group. As Diez 
pointed out, you will want to quote the site that you're spamvertising 
(Bastard!), so your pagerank rises.
Pretty new to the biz, ain't ya?

/W
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Re: Adding behaviour for managing task dependencies

[Paddy]

On Oct 2, 3:28 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm currently writing an animation pipeline in Python which is a
 system for controlling the flow of work and assets for a team of
 people working on a computer animated film. The system will be fairly
 large with a database backend.

 One particular problem that I'd like to address is the need for
 managing dependent tasks. Often you need to process one particular set
 of information before starting on another so when you batch them all
 together and send them off to a set of computers to process you need
 some way of formulating the dependencies. This preferably ends up
 looking a lot like a Makefile in the end with syntax a bit like:

 task task_name (dependencies):
 commands to complete the task
 ...

 Where the dependencies are a list of other tasks that need to be
 completed first.

 However I'd really like to do it in Python, but I'm thinking I'd might
 need to extend Python a bit in order to achieve the new syntax. I've
 seen attempts to do this within the Python syntax (Scons and buildIt)
 and I'm not a big fan of the way it ends up looking. I've worked at a
 place that has written it's own language to handle that sort of thing
 but then you end up with a language that is good for that but rubbish
 at everything else. Python seems like a good basis if I could tweak it
 slightly.

 One particular point that interests me is the idea of maintaining
 compatibility with Python modules so you still have all the
 functionality. This makes me think of the from __future__ import ...
 statements which, if I understand them correctly, can introduce new
 syntax like the with_statement, whilst still maintaining compatibility
 with older modules?

 Is this correct? Can anyone write a syntax changing module or is
 __future__ a hard coded special case? I realise I'll have to get into
 the C side of things for this. Are there other approaches to this that
 I really should be considering instead?

 Any thoughts would be most appreciated, though I would like to stress
 that I don't think Python should support the syntax I'm proposing I'd
 just like to know if I can extend a copy of it to do that.

 Mike

You could use a professional Job scheduling system such as LSF or Suns
Grid Engine that both support job dependencies (and a whole lot more).

For example, search for 'Job Dependencies' on this page:
  http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-0699/6nce0ht7s?a=view

- Paddy.

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wana watch latest hindi hot videos?

[diprat7]

wana watch latest hindi hot videos?
than www.yedil.com is the site you are looking for
have a nice time with www.yedil.com .Log on now

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Re: Question on overriding implicit lookups

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

David Ells a écrit :
 In Python we have a wonderful facility for customizing attribute
 access by defining __getattr__ or __getattribute__ in our classes.
 Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, for reasons I don't know), this
 facility only works for explicit attribute access, i.e. accessing
 foo.bar. What I am in need of, for reasons I'll keep out of the
 discussion for now, is a similar facility for implicit attribute
 access, such as the call to foo.__len__ when something like len(foo)
 is executed. I would like some way to customize access during these
 implicit lookups without having to define each one in the class
 myself. Essentially what I am looking for is a mechanism like
 __getattribute__, only one that will work for these implicit lookups
 to functions like __len__, __str__, __getitem__, and so on. Hopefully
 my question makes sense.

An obvious solution would be to define each one of these magic methods 
in a mixin class. Else, here's a QD but working solution :

class Test(object):
 def _get_magic_attribute(self, name):
 return YADDA YADDA

 for _name in ('__len__', '__str__', '__repr__'):
 exec %s = lambda self, _name='%s' :  \
   self._get_magic_attribute(_name) % (_name, _name)
 del _name

For a cleaner version, you may want to use a custom metaclass, but that 
seems a bit overkill to me.


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WCCM8 ECCOMAS 2008 - Mini-Symposium on Computational Bioimaging and Visualization - Announce Call for Contributions

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

___

Mini-Symposium on

Computational Bioimaging and Visualization

Within the WCCM8  ECCOMAS 2008 International Conference
(http://www.iacm-eccomascongress2008.org )
Venice, Italy, 30 June - 5 July 2008

___


Dear Colleague,

The use of computational procedures based on medical images to model
and visualize represented objects requires a high level of research
investment, due mainly to the strong demands of clinical partners.
These procedures can have different goals, such as shape
reconstruction and visualization, segmentation, motion and deformation
analyses, registration, simulation, etc. The main goal of this Mini-
symposium is to promote the debate between researchers involved in the
related fields (Bio-medical Image Acquisition, Analysis and
Processing; Multi-scale Shape and Motion Reconstruction; Multi-scale
Modeling and Analysis; Scientific Visualization, Bio-medical Software
Libraries, Environments; etc.), in order to set the major lines of
developments for the near future.

Mini-symposium Organizers:

João Manuel R.S. Tavares ([EMAIL PROTECTED], FEUP, Porto Portugal)
Renato Natal Jorge ([EMAIL PROTECTED], FEUP, Porto, Portugal)
Thomas J.R. Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED], ICES, University of Texas
at Austin, USA)
Chandrajit Bajaj ([EMAIL PROTECTED], ICES, University of Texas at
Austin, USA)

IMPORTANT DATES

Deadline for presenting a one page abstract: December 15th., 2007
Acceptance of the contributions: January 31th., 2008
Deadline for submitting the final abstract: February 28th., 2008

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Re: Can you please give me some advice?

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Thorsten Kampe a écrit :
 * Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200)
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
(snip)

I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
program is

puts 'Hello, World!'

whereas the Python Hello World program is

print 'Hello, World!'

suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print
has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
but puts just doesn't.

Hem Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python 
I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less 
intuitive than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail 
is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string' 
(implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct 
than what 'print' implies.
 
 
 You missed the point.

Your opinion.

 puts for printing something to stdout

MHO
It's not printing. To me, printing implies a printer and a piece of 
paper (or other appropriate support). It's sending bytes to some kind of 
cs abstraction known as a stream.
/MHO

But anyway... This is certainly enough to prove that intuitive is a 
*very* subjective qualifier.
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Re: Creating a custom python python distribution

[azrael]

Maybe you should check the Slax distro. Go to www.slax.org.
There is one special slax distro caled Frodo. I think that it includes
nearly nothing but the core.
There are also several packages for the distro that you can put inside
the distro and create your own distribution. There are also detailed
instructions. This way you can create a Live distro, but there are
also instruction on how to install it on the HDD.

If I understood your question then I guess that this should be the
answer.

best regards

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RE: Mysqldb printing sql and params ... NEVER MIND

[Sells, Fred]

el stupido here accidently put a couple of print statements into a
mysqldb module when eclipse opened it from the link in the stacktrace;

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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[bramble]

On Oct 2, 5:29 am, Paul Boddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 2 Okt, 04:54, bramble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Maybe the key I'm missing is this: maybe GvR and company think that a
  language absolutely should come off-the-shelf with GUI toolkit
  bindings. So, given that, they feel they've gotta pick just one, and
  they've already got Tkinter and it works, so that's that. Is that it?

 Yes.

Ahh... Ok. Thanks, that explains it. At first, it hadn't ocurred to me
that anyone would want to provide a GUI toolkit binding along with a
popular general purpose programming language implementation. Moreover,
it *really* wouldn't occur to me that they'd also want to provide an
IDE (as Terry mentions in another reply). But then, I'm looking at
Python today, in 2007, at a time when Python has multiple high-quality
GUI toolkit bindings available, and when most editors and IDE's have
excellent Python support built-in.

Given that line of reasoning though, it seems odd to me that GvR and
Co. would still regard shipping those as part of Python proper as a
requirement for Py3k.

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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[bramble]

On Oct 2, 7:33 am, Carsten Haese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 03:04 +, bramble wrote:
  But Py3k is all about breaking compatibility

 That's a complete distortion of Python 3.0's mission. Python 3.0 breaks
 backwards compatibility only where there exist good reasons to do so. As
 Guido put it in a recent Python-3000 post, Python 3000 is boldly
 choosing to be backwards compatible, except in cases where a real
 benefit can be obtained by being incompatible.

 So, unless you can make a case that a real benefit can be obtained by
 removing Tkinter, it'll stay.

Well, it of course wouldn't break backward compatibility by simply
removing it from the standard library and providing it as an optional
extra set of modules.

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Re: Algebraic Modules For Python

[Shawn Milochik]

On 10/1/07, Brandon McGinty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Hi All,
 I know that there is probably a great deal of literature on this on the net,
 but I don't have any time to go searching.

snip --

 Brandon McGinty
 McGinty Soft Ltd.
 Website design, configuration, and maintenance
 Python and PHP coder
snip

So let me get this straight:

You label yourself as a coder for hire in Python, but you don't have
time to search the Internet for an answer to your own Python question?

Remind me to avoid McGinty Soft for any and all needs which might
require someone useful.
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Re: gui toolkits: the real story? (Tkinter, PyGTK, etc.)

[James Stroud]

bramble wrote:
 Maybe a better question is, how has Tk managed to keep beating up the
 newer, more modern, more featureful, better documented toolkits
 encroaching on his territory? What's Tk's secret weapon?

On the OS vendor level, it may not be beating Tkinter. OSX 10.4 comes 
out of the box (no action by the user required to install it) with 
python 2.3.5 + wx 2.5.3.1:

   mbi136-54 25% /usr/bin/python
   Python 2.3.5 (#1, Aug 19 2006, 21:31:42)
   [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5363)] on darwin
   Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
   py import wx
   py wx.__version__
   '2.5.3.1'
   py ^D
   mbi136-54 27% uname -v
   Darwin Kernel Version 8.10.1: Wed May 23 16:33:00 PDT 2007; 
root:xnu-792.22.5~1/RELEASE_I386

Consider also that a similar setup with ubuntu is only an apt-get away. 
And, if you know the proper incantations, is probably just as easy with 
fedora.

Window$ of course...cousucksgh...Excuse me...doesn't get support for 
anything like that from micr$oft, but I think its very easy with enthought.

So in some ways, Tkinter appears to be simply vestigial.

James
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Re: toprettyxml messes up with whitespaces

[kyosohma]

On Oct 2, 11:43 am, Jorgen Bodde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 I parse an XML file, replace a node with a new one (like updating
 cache) and write it back. Every write, new spaces are added. For
 example, first read - update - write cycle;

 var name=APPNAME status=undefined
  My First App
 /var

 Second cycle:

 var name=APPNAME status=undefined
  My First App
 /var

 Third cycle:

 var name=APPNAME status=undefined
My First App
 /var

 And this goes on. The node is one that is not touched in the XML, it
 is simply written back after reading. I have the same with void spaces
 in between the nodes, I managed to compensate that by stripping the
 lines.

 I would like to use toprettyxml to make it user editable and viewable.
 But this is really weird. How can I circumvent this behaviour?

 regards,
 - Jorgen

I had similar problems and ended up switching to the lxml package to
solve the issue. I think you can do it with ElementTree too. Maybe
somebody with more experience with the xml / minidom modules will show
up soon.

Mike

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List Question

[brad]

How is this expressed in Python?

If x is in y more than three times:
 print x

y is a Python list.
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