date:20140721


On 7/20/2014 11:34 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:

A few users have noticed (and complained) that setting sys.ps1 and sys.ps2
*in the batch mode user process* has no effect. The Idle doc should better
explain why this is and should be.  User code should not affect the
operation of Idle. Idle is separately configured through dialogs.


As I understand it, setting them has *absolutely* no effect,
currently, right?


As far as I know, setting sys.ps1 and sys.ps2 have no effect in any 
batch mode program.  This has nothing to do with Idle.



There's no situation in which it would be useful to
set them? In that case, it might be useful to put some magic in there
(although I'm not sure it's possible; can't use @property at top level
in a module) that gives a notification - pointing users to the dialog.


In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the 
interpreter does, subject to the limitations of the different execution 
environment.



No idea how you'd go about it, but telling someone when what s/he does
is useless can be helpful.


What needs better documentation is what the execution environment is, 
and how the shell is different from a line-buffered console.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Html Parsing stuff

2014-07-21 Thread Nicholas Cannon

dont worry it has been solved
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Re: OT: usenet reader software

On 2014-07-21, Paul Rudin paul.nos...@rudin.co.uk wrote:
 Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:

 c...@isbd.net wrote:

 That doesn't address the problem at all! :-)  You still need a news
 reader.

 The problem was that Thunderbird does not support killfiles when used as a
 newsreader. Leafnode adds filtering capabilities which Thunderbird
 (supposedly) does not have.


 There are plenty of non-Thunderbird news clients...

But relatively few GUI clients on Linux... which was what I was looking
for.

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Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
 In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the interpreter
 does, subject to the limitations of the different execution environment.

Agreed, but I think the setting of prompts is a different execution
environment case. It's a fundamental difference between batch mode
and interactive, and Idle uses batch mode to implement interactive
mode. So something like:

 sys.ps1=Python 
Setting sys.ps1 has no effect in Idle; see the Options menu.


It might not be possible, but if it is, it wouldn't break any actual
viable use-cases.

ChrisA
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:

 You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
 beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
 bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
 implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.

I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
programmer's intent.

-- 
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  at   I love a man with
  gmail.coma HAIRPIECE!!  Equip me
   with MISSILES!!
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

2014-07-21 Thread Shiyao Ma

No intent to pollute this thread.

But really interested in the invalid@invalid.invalid mailing address.
And,,, obviously, I cannot send to invalid@invalid.invalid, so

How does you(he) make this?

2014-07-21 22:27 GMT+08:00 Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid:

 I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
 what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
 programmer's intent.

 --
 --
 https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 

吾輩は猫である。ホームーページはhttp://introo.me。
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote:
 On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:

 You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
 beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
 bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
 implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.

 I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
 what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
 programmer's intent.

There are many definitions of the word, and sometimes they disagree.
(That's why it's common to have an issue tracker rather than a bug
tracker; often the is this a bug report or a feature request
question doesn't even matter. In theory, version x.y.? releases should
have bug fixes but not feature additions, but sometimes some bug fix
might potentially break code, so it's deferred till the next x.?
release. Or a feature addition is allowed to be backported, because
it's Idle, not the core language.)

But even using that definition, I would not say that one single person
saying this can't possibly be useful is enough to define something
as a bug. Take, for instance, the behaviour of Windows's cmd.exe
editing keys: enter three commands, then up-arrow three times and hit
enter, then press down, enter, down, enter. You'll repeat the three
commands. In other interfaces (eg GNU readline), you'd do the same job
by pressing up, up, up, enter each time. Personally, I find the
cmd.exe behaviour extremely surprising, especially when I've been
working with some very similar commands (imagine: ./configure
some_bunch_of_args; make; some_command_to_test; rm -rf *; git checkout
HEAD - then repeat with a different set of configure arguments), and I
end up stuck half way up command history, wondering why I'm not
seeing what I wanted. Can be extremely awkward. But even so, I don't
call this a bug. It's entirely possible that it is one - some internal
state that isn't being reset correctly - as I don't have docs or the
programmer's intention to compare against. However, I can't honestly
call it a bug based on just my own use-cases. I personally find it
useless and unhelpful, but that doesn't make it a bug any more than a
colourblind person would find a colour-based UI phenomenon a bug.

ChrisA
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Shiyao Ma i...@introo.me wrote:
 No intent to pollute this thread.

 But really interested in the invalid@invalid.invalid mailing address.
 And,,, obviously, I cannot send to invalid@invalid.invalid, so

 How does you(he) make this?

When you send email, you have to have a valid envelope-from address,
which can be found in the headers. But the From: address doesn't
technically have to be valid. And if the email you received actually
came from the news-mail gateway, then it's even less significant;
the address used is simply whatever Grant chose to key into his
newsreader, which in this case is a marker saying Please don't email
me, just follow-up to the group :)

ChrisA
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On 2014-07-21, Shiyao Ma i...@introo.me wrote:
 But really interested in the invalid@invalid.invalid mailing address.
 And,,, obviously, I cannot send to invalid@invalid.invalid, so

 How does you(he) make this?

Some usenet clients, such as slrn which it looks like Grant is using
according to the message header, support using different addresses for
'From:' and 'Reply-To:', and the comments in the default .slrnrc config
file recommend using some form of 'invalid' in your 'From:' address to
cut down on spam.  Looks like Grant took that quite literally ;)

Not sure if it really matters... probably can't hurt...

Monte

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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

2014-07-21 Thread Mark Lawrence


On 21/07/2014 15:27, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:


You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.


I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
programmer's intent.



As in my entire career I've never come across a reasonable user then 
by that definition there are no bugs.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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is active.
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:19 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 On 21/07/2014 15:27, Grant Edwards wrote:

 On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:

 You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
 beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
 bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
 implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.


 I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
 what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
 programmer's intent.


 As in my entire career I've never come across a reasonable user then by
 that definition there are no bugs.

Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence. It may be
that there is a single platinum reasonable user, kept at the
International Bureau of Bugs, that we may all look on it and know what
the SI Standard User is.

ChrisA
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Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]

2014-07-21 Thread CHIN Dihedral

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:53:02 AM UTC+8, C.D. Reimer wrote:
On 7/19/2014 6:23 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

I haven't used Python on Windows much, but when I did use it, I found

the standard Python interactive interpreter running under cmd.exe to

be bare- bones but usable for testing short snippets. If I recall

correctly, it is missing any sort of command history or line editing

other than backspace, which I guess it would have been painful to use

for extensive interactive work, but when I started using Python on

Linux the interactive interpreter had no readline support either so it

was just like old times :-)

Windows PowerShell supports very basic Linux commands and has a command

history. I'm always typing ls for a directory listing when I'm on a

Windows machine. The regular command line would throw a DOS fit.

PowerShell lets me get away with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands

I prefer working on my vintage 2006 Black MacBook. Alas, the CPU fan is

dying and MacBook shuts down after 15 minutes. I'm surprised at how well

I was able to set up a equivalent programming environment on Windows.

Chris Reimer

Well, Python could be used as a
scripting language for routine jobs
in various Oses.

But Python has been designed to be
a cross-platform high-level general
purpose programming language from
the birth.

One can be sure that the investing in most of the programming concepts and
skills in Python 2.XX is still valid in Python 3.XX.

Forget those non-investing imitators' flase spamming claims.

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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:

 Take, for instance, the behaviour of Windows's cmd.exe
 editing keys: enter three commands, then up-arrow three times and hit
 enter, then press down, enter, down, enter. You'll repeat the three
 commands. In other interfaces (eg GNU readline), you'd do the same job
 by pressing up, up, up, enter each time. Personally, I find the
 cmd.exe behaviour extremely surprising, especially when I've been
 working with some very similar commands (imagine: ./configure
 some_bunch_of_args; make; some_command_to_test; rm -rf *; git checkout
 HEAD - then repeat with a different set of configure arguments), and I
 end up stuck half way up command history, wondering why I'm not
 seeing what I wanted. Can be extremely awkward. But even so, I don't
 call this a bug.

Granted, the readline library exposes a operate-and-get-next function,
by default bound to \C-o, with the same behaviour as the cmd.exe
one. I find it very handy in the scenario you picted. So again,
feature and bug may be effectively subjective :-)

ciao, lele.
-- 
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real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
l...@metapensiero.it  | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.

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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 AM, Lele Gaifax l...@metapensiero.it wrote:
 Granted, the readline library exposes a operate-and-get-next function,
 by default bound to \C-o, with the same behaviour as the cmd.exe
 one. I find it very handy in the scenario you picted. So again,
 feature and bug may be effectively subjective :-)

I've never used it, but from the name, I would take it to be
equivalent to enter, down-arrow in the above scenario. As a single
action, that's less surprising and just as useful. The problem isn't
when you consciously want the feature - it's when you DON'T want it
and get this unexpected state.

ChrisA
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Network/multi-user program

So... this is a fairly general / hypothetical question, and I'm more
looking for direction than specifics - though it may be useful as well.

I need to create a particular application for administering a sporting
event.  95% (and this may be understating the case) of the 'users' would 
likely be single-machine, single user scenarios.  For those exceptions 
(which are important enough that I'm concerned over them) there would be
one person 'administering' the event and a small number of others
(probably 5, no more than 10) doing basic data entry - competitor
registration and later entering scores.  Before (setting up event), in
between (squadding competitors based on classification, equipment,
available positions on relays, etc.) and taking care of final reports
for awards, etc. would be done only from the main program.  The
end-users are likely not tech-saavy, and most likely running Windows or
maybe a Mac.  Being able to do the data entry from a tablet would be
nice but by no means necessary.  Installation needs to be as
stone-simple as possible - running from a pre-configured USB stick or a
browser would be ideal.  Use would be over small wired or wi-fi LAN
enviroment - no exposure to Internet.

Given that the vast majority of the 'work' is going to be done on one
computer by one user, but wanting to retain the flexibility/ability to
later have addtional 'clients' connect for data entry purposes... I'm
trying to decide what would be a better option:  create a stand-alone
GUI desktop app and figure out how to create a separate 'client'
program that can connect and perform basic CRUD operations, or start out
with some sort of web framework and have everything literally run from
the 'server' via a browser-based interface.  The scope of the project in
terms of users appears to be small enough that using something like
sqlite would be feasible (the data entry clients would not be working on
the same records), and the small development web servers that most
projects like web2py, flask, django come with should (maybe?) be able to
carry the (minimal) load as well. 

Having to throw html/css/js plus browser compatibility issues on top of 
everything else starts making the project look a whole lot bigger than 
I'm comfortable with... but on the other hand I have no idea how to go
about connecting a client app to a running GUI program either.  The
whole project is fairly ambitious for my current skill level (basically
small addressbook/task-list type apps) but I figured I'd have to
stretch/grow a bit either way I go.

So I guess I'm asking for advice or simplified examples of how to
go about connecting a client desktop app to a parent/master desktop app,
so I can get some idea of how big of a task I'm looking at here, and
whether that would be more or less difficult than trying to do the
equivalent job using a web framework.

Thanks,

Monte

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Re: Network/multi-user program

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com wrote:
 So I guess I'm asking for advice or simplified examples of how to
 go about connecting a client desktop app to a parent/master desktop app,
 so I can get some idea of how big of a task I'm looking at here, and
 whether that would be more or less difficult than trying to do the
 equivalent job using a web framework.

Easier way: Don't have a master desktop app, but instead have a
master database. Since you're posting this to python-list, I'll assume
you currently intend writing this in Python; you can make a really
simple transition from single-user-single-desktop to a networked
system, although of course you'll want to think in terms of multiple
users from the start.

All you need to do is pick a database engine at the top of the script.
As a general rule, I would say that it's okay to have more complicated
installation instructions for a more demanding job, so you can have
the single-user setup done with SQLite3 (no need to install a database
and worry about passwords), but for the multi-user setup, they have to
install (say) PostgreSQL on a single central server, and then possibly
key in some authentication on each client (or even maybe not,
depending on how much you trust the LAN - you did say there's no
internet exposure). This is going to be comparable difficulty to
setting up a centralized web server, but with the advantage that you
can short-cut the whole thing when it's to be used on only one
computer (not really possible with a browser-based system).

Your UI would, obviously, be absolutely the same for both scenarios -
it'd be all the same code, doing exactly the same things. (Obviously
you'd have to make sure your SQL isn't specific to either engine, but
that's easy enough. You won't warp your code much around that.) The
only difference would be if you have to worry about update conflicts
and other inherently multi-user issues, but ultimately there's no
difference between the multi-user scenario where nobody else happens
to be doing anything, and the dedicated single-user scenario.

So, how big a task is it? If you're already familiar with the Python
databasing API, and at least broadly familiar with a multi-user DBMS
like PostgreSQL, and especially if you already know the important
aspects of coping with simultaneous users, then this will be pretty
easy - much easier than working it into a web browser. (And you'd need
to worry about the issues of simultaneous users anyway. There's really
no difference on that.)

In terms of setup complexity for your users, it's *possible* that you
could develop a low-performance web server that would be easier to
deploy. You'd just need to either embed an HTTP server in your Python
script, or use a framework that includes one; and if you make it
single-threaded (ie all requests are serialized), you could use SQLite
for the database back-end. In contrast, I'm suggesting a central
database, which has to be installed and configured (most databases
won't, by default, accept connections from anyone but localhost),
which at very least will require a bit more chugging (you can automate
all or at least most of it, but it'll still take time to install). The
advantages are that you can trust your code (because it's all the same
everywhere), and yet you have an extremely light single-user mode,
plus your UI is flexible - you're not restricted to a web browser, you
can build an actual application with whatever UI you like. And, in
fact, you could have several different UIs, if you wanted to, because
it's the database that's king. Maybe it'd be helpful to have a really
REALLY cut-down UI for the basic data entry, with no clutter from the
admin functions. It'd all work fine. (And you could add that later,
without breaking anything.)

It is, of course, possible to write a desktop application that can be
remotely scripted for data entry. But I don't think it's necessary. :)

ChrisA
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Re: Network/multi-user program

Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com writes:

 I need to create a particular application for administering a sporting
 event.  95% (and this may be understating the case) of the 'users' would 
 likely be single-machine, single user scenarios.  For those exceptions 
 (which are important enough that I'm concerned over them) there would be
 one person 'administering' the event and a small number of others
 (probably 5, no more than 10) doing basic data entry - competitor
 registration and later entering scores.  Before (setting up event), in
 between (squadding competitors based on classification, equipment,
 available positions on relays, etc.) and taking care of final reports
 for awards, etc. would be done only from the main program.  The
 end-users are likely not tech-saavy, and most likely running Windows or
 maybe a Mac.  Being able to do the data entry from a tablet would be
 nice but by no means necessary.  Installation needs to be as
 stone-simple as possible - running from a pre-configured USB stick or a
 browser would be ideal.  Use would be over small wired or wi-fi LAN
 enviroment - no exposure to Internet.

I developed SoL[1] with almost the same goal, to manage Carrom tournaments.

It started many years ago as a Windows only desktop application, but
evolved into a much nicer and fun-to-develop web application, based on
Python on the backend (using Pyramid and SQLAlchemy, with a SQLite
database) and ExtJS on the frontend. That basically means that the
backend may be installed with little effort on any Python-supported OS,
and the frontend runs on most modern browsers.

I manage small events with a single notebook and a low cost printer,
without network connection, while major events with a network connection
may be managed online. 

You can try it out at http://sol3.arstecnica.it/, using guest/guest as
username/password.

Hope this helps,
ciao, lele.

[1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/SoL
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real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
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RE: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

2014-07-21 Thread Coll-Barth, Michael

 -Original Message-
 From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+michael.coll-
 barth=verizonwireless@python.org] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards
 Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 10:27 AM
 To: python-list@python.org
 Subject: Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

 On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:

  You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
  beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
  bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
  implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.

 I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
 what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
 programmer's intent.

 --

I have to agree with Chris.  A bug is what you call something that happens 
contrary to design or intent.  Only.  I build a program, regardless of the 
platform, with my intent, not yours.  When it blows up or doesn't do what I 
want, then it's a bug and it's a bug even if there are no users for my program.

Something that happens contrary to user expectations is an annoyance to that 
user.  You might want to get your money back from those that taught you 
otherwise.

BTW, there ain't no such thing as a 'reasonable' user.  That's what they call 
an oxymoron. 
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Installing Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 12.1

2014-07-21 Thread Behzad Dastur

Question: How to install Python manually and make sure that all the
necessary modules and .so files get built (eg: _sha256.so, zlib.so)



Details:

I am trying to install Python2.6.2 version manually, installation goes
through fine, but later installing setuptools fails due to _sha256 Module
not found.



These are the steps I did for manually installing python in my private
folder:



 1. ./configure --help

 2.  ./configure --prefix=/home/brd/priv_env

 3. make; make install



The installation went through successfully, however I noticed that some of
the _*.so files did not get built under lib/python2.6/lib-dynload/ folder
(eg _sha256.so) , which is likely the reason why my setuptools install
failed due to the error:



  File /home/cisco/priv_env/lib/python2.6/hashlib.py, line 138, in
module

sha224 = __get_builtin_constructor('sha224')

  File /home/cisco/priv_env/lib/python2.6/hashlib.py, line 66, in
__get_builtin_constructor

import _sha256

ImportError: No module named _sha256



Note that I have the necessary libraries installed on this machine eg:
libzlib.so, libssl.so

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl3.so

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux/gnu/libz.so.1




Another note, is that the standard python installation on this system
(Python 2.7.3), does not have this problem, and has all the modules and .so
files built.



Sincere Regards,

Behzad
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On 2014-07-21, Shiyao Ma i...@introo.me wrote:
 No intent to pollute this thread.

 But really interested in the invalid@invalid.invalid mailing address.
 And,,, obviously, I cannot send to invalid@invalid.invalid, so

FWIW, my real e-mail address is at the bottom of every post.

 How does you(he) make this?

I execute the following slang code via my slrn startup file:

  username = grant.b.edwards;
  host = gmail.com;

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Does someone from
  at   PEORIA have a SHORTER
  gmail.comATTENTION span than me?
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Shiyao Ma i...@introo.me wrote:
 No intent to pollute this thread.

 But really interested in the invalid@invalid.invalid mailing address.
 And,,, obviously, I cannot send to invalid@invalid.invalid, so

 How does you(he) make this?

 When you send email, you have to have a valid envelope-from address,
 which can be found in the headers. But the From: address doesn't
 technically have to be valid.

Note that a lot of mail servers and/or spam filters will think it's
spam if it isn't.

 And if the email you received actually came from the news-mail
 gateway,

It did.

 then it's even less significant; the address used is simply whatever
 Grant chose to key into his newsreader, which in this case is a
 marker saying Please don't email me, just follow-up to the group :)

If people really do want to e-mail me, that's fine.  What I'm trying
to avoid is people who e-mail my without knowing they're doing so
because that's the default setting for whatever broken-by-design email
client, web-UI, or newsreading they happen to be using.  If people
conciously want to e-mail me, all they can by using the address in my
sig.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Wait ... is this a FUN
  at   THING or the END of LIFE in
  gmail.comPetticoat Junction??
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On 2014-07-21, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 On 21/07/2014 15:27, Grant Edwards wrote:
 On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:

 You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
 beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
 bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
 implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.

 I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
 what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
 programmer's intent.

 As in my entire career I've never come across a reasonable user then 
 by that definition there are no bugs.

Well done!

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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

2014-07-21 Thread Steven D'Aprano

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:57:22 +0200, Lele Gaifax wrote:

 Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:
 
 Take, for instance, the behaviour of Windows's cmd.exe editing keys:
 enter three commands, then up-arrow three times and hit enter, then
 press down, enter, down, enter. You'll repeat the three commands. In
 other interfaces (eg GNU readline), you'd do the same job by pressing
 up, up, up, enter each time. Personally, I find the cmd.exe behaviour
 extremely surprising, especially when I've been working with some very
 similar commands (imagine: ./configure some_bunch_of_args; make;
 some_command_to_test; rm -rf *; git checkout HEAD - then repeat with a
 different set of configure arguments), and I end up stuck half way up
 command history, wondering why I'm not seeing what I wanted. Can be
 extremely awkward. But even so, I don't call this a bug.
 
 Granted, the readline library exposes a operate-and-get-next function,
 by default bound to \C-o, with the same behaviour as the cmd.exe one. I
 find it very handy in the scenario you picted. So again, feature and
 bug may be effectively subjective :-)

Have you actually got that working in Python with the readline module? 
I've tried and tried and cannot get it to work. Any hints gratefully 
appreciated.



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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On 2014-07-21, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote:
 On 2014-07-21, Shiyao Ma i...@introo.me wrote:
 No intent to pollute this thread.

 But really interested in the invalid@invalid.invalid mailing address.
 And,,, obviously, I cannot send to invalid@invalid.invalid, so

 FWIW, my real e-mail address is at the bottom of every post.

 How does you(he) make this?

 I execute the following slang code via my slrn startup file:

   username = grant.b.edwards;
   host = gmail.com;

Oops, I cut and pasted the wrong code:

  variable username = invalid;
  variable host=invalid.invalid;
  set_string_variable(hostname, host);
  set_string_variable(username, username);

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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info writes:

 Granted, the readline library exposes a operate-and-get-next function,
 by default bound to \C-o, with the same behaviour as the cmd.exe one. I
 find it very handy in the scenario you picted. So again, feature and
 bug may be effectively subjective :-)

 Have you actually got that working in Python with the readline module? 
 I've tried and tried and cannot get it to work. Any hints gratefully 
 appreciated.

I was pretty sure it worked when I revamped the readline support[1],
many years ago, but effectively I'm not able to do it now, and I find
this

  https://github.com/ipython/ipython/issues/41

where Chet Ramey says it's something that bash injects into the
library... and that it should be easy to implement by the calling
application.

So I guess my memory is faulty.

ciao, lele.

[1] 
http://ftp.vim.org/languages/python/python/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/Pyrl.README
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote:
 On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:

 When you send email, you have to have a valid envelope-from address,
 which can be found in the headers. But the From: address doesn't
 technically have to be valid.

 Note that a lot of mail servers and/or spam filters will think it's
 spam if it isn't.

Yes, which is why I said technically. Most often, a difference
between envelope-from and From: header is because of a resending, like
when Mailman sends mail on behalf of someone else; the From is still a
valid address, but it's not the same one as the envelope-from (which
will be the list-bounces address).

That said, though, I've often telnetted to a mail server and done
something like this:


helo
mail from:some real address
rcpt to:another real address
data
From: me
To: me
Subject: Test

Test!
.
quit


Generally that sort of thing gets through. Sometimes it lands in a
spam box, but more often it doesn't. I don't remember it ever getting
rejected, other than for issues of relaying (which usually come from
typoing the recipient domain).

ChrisA
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Re: Network/multi-user program

On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com wrote:
 So I guess I'm asking for advice or simplified examples of how to
 go about connecting a client desktop app to a parent/master desktop app,
 so I can get some idea of how big of a task I'm looking at here, and
 whether that would be more or less difficult than trying to do the
 equivalent job using a web framework.

 Easier way: Don't have a master desktop app, but instead have a
 master database. Since you're posting this to python-list, I'll assume
 you currently intend writing this in Python; you can make a really
 simple transition from single-user-single-desktop to a networked
 system, although of course you'll want to think in terms of multiple
 users from the start.

So... if everybody is using the same application to access the same
database, how would you prevent say, a data entry user from accidentally
breaking something above their pay-grade?  Set up some sort of
role-based privilege system to limit them to write access for some
portions and read-only for others?

Thanks,

Monte

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Re: Network/multi-user program

On 2014-07-21, Lele Gaifax l...@metapensiero.it wrote:
 I manage small events with a single notebook and a low cost printer,
 without network connection, while major events with a network connection
 may be managed online. 

 You can try it out at http://sol3.arstecnica.it/, using guest/guest as
 username/password.

Wow.  I have no idea how the game/events run, but that is a very nice
looking program!  

How hard was it to migrate from a desktop app to what you have now?
Would you recommend this route for someone starting out?

Monte

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Re: Network/multi-user program

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:16 AM, Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com wrote:
 On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com wrote:
 So I guess I'm asking for advice or simplified examples of how to
 go about connecting a client desktop app to a parent/master desktop app,
 so I can get some idea of how big of a task I'm looking at here, and
 whether that would be more or less difficult than trying to do the
 equivalent job using a web framework.

 Easier way: Don't have a master desktop app, but instead have a
 master database. Since you're posting this to python-list, I'll assume
 you currently intend writing this in Python; you can make a really
 simple transition from single-user-single-desktop to a networked
 system, although of course you'll want to think in terms of multiple
 users from the start.

 So... if everybody is using the same application to access the same
 database, how would you prevent say, a data entry user from accidentally
 breaking something above their pay-grade?  Set up some sort of
 role-based privilege system to limit them to write access for some
 portions and read-only for others?

That would be one way, yes. The first question you'd need to ask is:
How do you know who's data-entry and who's admins? As soon as you
solve that (probably with some sort of login), you tie the access
level to that.

If you need absolute security, you would have the user enter a login
and password which would actually be the database credentials. Then
you grant exact rights in the database manager, permitting ONLY what
that user is allowed to do. It's then utterly impossible, even for
someone who knows Python and SQL, to do damage. But more likely, what
you really want is a cut-down UI that simplifies things: if the user
is data-entry level, you take away all the admin-type options. It
might be possible to fiddle around in internals and gain elevated
access, but that's not an issue in many environments.

In any case, these are issues you'd need to figure out regardless of
the development model. Ultimately, you could treat the entire
computer, network, database, etc as a black box, and just look at two
entities: the human, and the UI s/he is using. All permissions issues
can be explained at that level.

ChrisA
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Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read


On 7/21/2014 6:56 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:

In general, Idle should execute user code the same way that the interpreter
does, subject to the limitations of the different execution environment.


Agreed, but I think the setting of prompts is a different execution
environment case. It's a fundamental difference between batch mode
and interactive, and Idle uses batch mode to implement interactive
mode. So something like:


sys.ps1=Python 

Setting sys.ps1 has no effect in Idle; see the Options menu.




It might not be possible, but if it is, it wouldn't break any actual
viable use-cases.


It would be a lot of work for close to 0 gain. It could not work 
consistent without special-casing sys assignments. Consider


 prompt1 = 'Me'
 setps1 = sys.ps1
 setps1(prompt1)

;-(.


Idle cannot exactly imitate the interactive interpreter (II) because it 
does not execute code in exactly the same way. For instance,

http://bugs.python.org/issue21997
reported that fact that the sequence

   def dodebug():
pdb.set_trace()
   dodebug()

behaves differently in Idle and II. Not knowing the details of Idle 
(currently only available in the code), the OP claimed that this is an 
Idle bug.  It turns out that running dodebug indirectly


 def run_code(code): exec(code, globals())
 run('dodebug()')

*in the II* behaves like Idle.  The above is essentially how Idle runs 
code.  (The difference is that it substitutes a custom namespace 
designed to look like the globals() of a main modules, include having 
__name__ == '__main__'.)


Well, at least I know now, so I know how to review claims that Idle is 
buggy when it acts a bit differently than the II.  The exec abstraction 
has a few tiny leaks if one looks hard enough, such as with the 
debugger.  Using inspect to look at the frame stack would also show a 
difference.


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Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
 It would be a lot of work for close to 0 gain. It could not work consistent
 without special-casing sys assignments.

The latter doesn't much matter (this is just a theory to help people
realize what they've done, not an actual preventative - it's like if
someone types quit and it comes back with a custom repr that tells
them about quit() or EOF), but the former is the important bit here.
Not a big deal, not worth a huge amount of effort.

At best, this is something to docket away as here's another thing
that we could do if we had an equivalent for @property at
module-level, nothing more. (Because with that, it would be pretty
easy.)

ChrisA
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Event loop documentation error

I was reading 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-eventloop.html#example-set-signal-handlers-for-sigint-and-sigterm
and wanted to test the example, however, I am getting this error when
I run the code;

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:/Users/gorki/Documents/Python Scripts/as-io.py, line 14, in module
loop.add_signal_handler(SIGINT, partial(ask_exit, SIGINT))
  File C:\Python34\lib\asyncio\events.py, line 329, in add_signal_handler
raise NotImplementedError
NotImplementedError

I was wondering if there is something I am doing wrong, or is this
behaviour platform specific (I am on windows 7). I wanted to ask in
the list before I file a bug report.

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Re: Event loop documentation error

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:38 AM, Yaşar Arabacı yasar11...@gmail.com wrote:
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File C:/Users/gorki/Documents/Python Scripts/as-io.py, line 14, in 
 module
 loop.add_signal_handler(SIGINT, partial(ask_exit, SIGINT))
   File C:\Python34\lib\asyncio\events.py, line 329, in add_signal_handler
 raise NotImplementedError
 NotImplementedError

 I was wondering if there is something I am doing wrong, or is this
 behaviour platform specific (I am on windows 7). I wanted to ask in
 the list before I file a bug report.

SIGINT is a Unix signal. There is an equivalent for Windows, but it
wouldn't at all surprise me if trying to hook signals raises
NotImplementedError. See if there's a different way to hook Ctrl-C on
Windows; if not, you may want to word your report as a feature
request.

ChrisA
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Fwd: Event loop documentation error

-- Forwarded message --
From: Yaşar Arabacı yasar11...@gmail.com
Date: 2014-07-21 21:54 GMT+03:00
Subject: Re: Event loop documentation error
To: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com

2014-07-21 21:45 GMT+03:00 Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com:
 SIGINT is a Unix signal. There is an equivalent for Windows, but it
 wouldn't at all surprise me if trying to hook signals raises
 NotImplementedError. See if there's a different way to hook Ctrl-C on
 Windows; if not, you may want to word your report as a feature
 request.

 ChrisA

After reading the next page of the documentation, I realized that
add_signal_handler() and remove_signal_handler() are not supported
on Windows. Moreover, dev3.5 version of the docs are also saying that
they are not supported, so I think they are not planning to supports
those features on Windows anytime soon.

In that case, should I make a bug report on docs that it should be
mentioned on example that this feature is not supported on Windows.

As for the feature request, I think there is a good reason that they
didn't include it already. I will try to look into it, before making a
feature request.

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Re: Event loop documentation error

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Yaşar Arabacı yasar11...@gmail.com wrote:
 After reading the next page of the documentation, I realized that
 add_signal_handler() and remove_signal_handler() are not supported
 on Windows. Moreover, dev3.5 version of the docs are also saying that
 they are not supported, so I think they are not planning to supports
 those features on Windows anytime soon.

If I had to guess, I would say that the reason there's no Windows
Ctrl-C handler would simply be that nobody's yet volunteered to write
one. So you might be in a position to add what you want to 3.5 :)

ChrisA
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Re: Event loop documentation error

2014-07-21 Thread Mark Lawrence


On 21/07/2014 20:00, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Yaşar Arabacı yasar11...@gmail.com wrote:

After reading the next page of the documentation, I realized that
add_signal_handler() and remove_signal_handler() are not supported
on Windows. Moreover, dev3.5 version of the docs are also saying that
they are not supported, so I think they are not planning to supports
those features on Windows anytime soon.


If I had to guess, I would say that the reason there's no Windows
Ctrl-C handler would simply be that nobody's yet volunteered to write
one. So you might be in a position to add what you want to 3.5 :)

ChrisA



I'd check the bug tracker before doing anything.  It's perfectly 
possible that somebody has already done this but the patch hasn't been 
reviewed yet.


--
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what you can do for our language.


Mark Lawrence

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Re: Event loop documentation error

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 On 21/07/2014 20:00, Chris Angelico wrote:

 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Yaşar Arabacı yasar11...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 After reading the next page of the documentation, I realized that
 add_signal_handler() and remove_signal_handler() are not supported
 on Windows. Moreover, dev3.5 version of the docs are also saying that
 they are not supported, so I think they are not planning to supports
 those features on Windows anytime soon.


 If I had to guess, I would say that the reason there's no Windows
 Ctrl-C handler would simply be that nobody's yet volunteered to write
 one. So you might be in a position to add what you want to 3.5 :)

 ChrisA


 I'd check the bug tracker before doing anything.  It's perfectly possible
 that somebody has already done this but the patch hasn't been reviewed yet.

Or that, yes. My point is, I doubt there's a strong philosophical
reason for there to be a lack of support, but merely that it hasn't
been done yet.

ChrisA
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Re: PyWart(2.7.8) IDLE is more buggy than Joe's apartment!


On 7/21/2014 10:27 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2014-07-21, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:


You call it a bug because you can't think of any way it could be
beneficial. That's the wrong way of looking at it. Something isn't a
bug because you find it annoying; it's a bug because it fails to
implement the programmer's intentions and/or the docs/specification.


I was always taught that it's a bug is when a program doesn't do
what a reasonable user expects -- that it's got nothing to do with the
programmer's intent.


For the Python issue tracker at bugs.python.org, one definition of a 
behavior ('bug') issue, one that might lead to a patch in maintenance 
releases of current versions, is a discrepancy between doc claim and 
code behavior. Discrepancies can be fixed by changing either doc or code 
to match the other, depending on which is considered to be wrong. Of 
course, sometime the doc is absent, partial, ambiguous, or confusing.


People (such as Rick) proposing enhancements often consider matching 
code and doc to be buggy by design. But this is different type of issue.


For Idle, the doc briefly specifies behavior at a high, user level. File 
/ open should 'open an existing file'. A text box for entry of a path 
would minimally suffice. The current open file dialog adds the option of 
filling in the box by clicking around the directory tree.



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How to extract digit from a number?

2014-07-21 Thread fl

Hi,

I see the following example on line, but it does not work. I do not know what is
wrong. Could you correct it for me?


Thanks,




I'm not sure what [1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, ...] has to do with 128, but if you want 
the 
base 10 digits:

 a = 1234
 [int(d) for d in str(a)]
 [1, 2, 3, 4]
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Re: How to extract digit from a number?

2014-07-21 Thread Tim Chase

On 2014-07-21 13:14, fl wrote:
 I see the following example on line, but it does not work. I do not
 know what is wrong. Could you correct it for me?
 
 I'm not sure what [1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, ...] has to do with 128, but
 if you want the base 10 digits:
 
  a = 1234
  [int(d) for d in str(a)]
  [1, 2, 3, 4]

You don't specify *what* is wrong or what constitutes does not
work.  If you provide an example of what you *do* want, folks here
can help you get closer to the code you need to do what you intend.

-tkc


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Re: How to extract digit from a number?

2014-07-21 Thread fl

On Monday, July 21, 2014 4:26:25 PM UTC-4, Tim Chase wrote:
 On 2014-07-21 13:14, fl wrote:
 You don't specify *what* is wrong or what constitutes does not
 work.  If you provide an example of what you *do* want, folks here
 can help you get closer to the code you need to do what you intend.
 
 -tkc

The original source input is:
 a = 1234
 [int(d) for d in str(a)] 

He hopes the output is:
 [1, 2, 3, 4] 

In fact, I get the output is:

 a = 1234
 [int(d) for d in str(a)] 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File interactive input, line 1, in module
TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

BTW, I just add input:
 import string

The error is still there. 
Why does it say :TypeError: 'str' object is not callable？
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How to use string constant?

2014-07-21 Thread fl

Hi,

I learn string constant on Python tutorial at: 
https://docs.python.org/2/library/string.html

Although it gives explanation, it does not show me any example usage.

Could you give me an example on using these options?


string.digits

string.ascii_letters



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Re: How to extract digit from a number?

2014-07-21 Thread Roy Smith

In article d84aa18f-7c12-4262-a746-218581783...@googlegroups.com,
 fl rxjw...@gmail.com wrote:

  a = 1234
  [int(d) for d in str(a)] 
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File interactive input, line 1, in module
 TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

This looks like you've overwritten str with an *instance* of a string.

When a python interpreter starts up, there are certain pre-defined 
symbols.  For example, 'str' is bound to the string class.  But, there's 
nothing to prevent you from re-defining it.  Here's an example which 
produces the same result you got:

-
$ python
Python 2.7.1 (r271:86832, Jul 31 2011, 19:30:53) 
[GCC 4.2.1 (Based on Apple Inc. build 5658) (LLVM build 2335.15.00)] on 
darwin
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
 str = foo
 a = 1234
 [int(d) for d in str(a)] 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File stdin, line 1, in module
TypeError: 'str' object is not callable
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Re: How to extract digit from a number?

2014-07-21 Thread Tim Chase

On 2014-07-21 13:42, fl wrote:
 The original source input is:
  a = 1234
  [int(d) for d in str(a)] 
 
 He hopes the output is:
  [1, 2, 3, 4] 
 
 In fact, I get the output is:
 
  a = 1234
  [int(d) for d in str(a)] 
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File interactive input, line 1, in module
 TypeError: 'str' object is not callable

This sounds suspiciously like you have shadowed the str() function.
You might search your code for something like

  str = test

which shadows the built-in str() function.  The code you have works at
the command-line as long as you haven't shadowed the
previously-existing str() function:

$ python
Python 2.7.3 (default, Mar 13 2014, 11:03:55) 
[GCC 4.7.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
 a = 1234
 [int(d) for d in str(a)]
[1, 2, 3, 4]

-tkc



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Re: Network/multi-user program

Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com writes:

 On 2014-07-21, Lele Gaifax l...@metapensiero.it wrote:
 I manage small events with a single notebook and a low cost printer,
 without network connection, while major events with a network connection
 may be managed online. 

 You can try it out at http://sol3.arstecnica.it/, using guest/guest as
 username/password.

 Wow.  I have no idea how the game/events run, but that is a very nice
 looking program!

Thank you!

 How hard was it to migrate from a desktop app to what you have now?

Well, basically I rewrote everything, there's nothing in common. The
original application was written in Delphi, using Paradox tables, no
i18n, no multiuser, no PDF printouts... On the other hand, with Python
is far easier to get something working, and databasing with SQLAlchemy
is a pleasure. On the frontend, ExtJS is impressive, even if it has its
own drawbacks.

 Would you recommend this route for someone starting out?

Yes, absolutely. You learn something that you can reuse over and over.

Do not hesitate to ask for further hints.

ciao, lele.
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real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
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Re: Event loop documentation error


On 7/21/2014 2:38 PM, Yaşar Arabacı wrote:

I was reading 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-eventloop.html#example-set-signal-handlers-for-sigint-and-sigterm
and wanted to test the example,


With 3.4.0, 3.4.1, or 3.5.0a0 in the repository (available to view at 
hg.python.org, I believe)?  Asyncio is patched at least once a week
You can access the latest version of the 3.5 docs online (see the box in 
upper left corner) also to check how the example is written today.


however, I am getting this error when

I run the code;

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File C:/Users/gorki/Documents/Python Scripts/as-io.py, line 14, in module
 loop.add_signal_handler(SIGINT, partial(ask_exit, SIGINT))
   File C:\Python34\lib\asyncio\events.py, line 329, in add_signal_handler
 raise NotImplementedError
NotImplementedError

I was wondering if there is something I am doing wrong, or is this
behaviour platform specific (I am on windows 7). I wanted to ask in
the list before I file a bug report.




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Re: How to use string constant?


On 7/21/2014 4:46 PM, fl wrote:

Hi,

I learn string constant on Python tutorial at:
https://docs.python.org/2/library/string.html

Although it gives explanation, it does not show me any example usage.

Could you give me an example on using these options?


string.digits

string.ascii_letters


 import string
 'a' in string.ascii_letters
True
 'a' in string.digits
False



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asyncip application hangs

I am trying to grasp how asyncio works today. Based on the examples
that I found on the docs, I write a simple program like this;

import asyncio
import urllib.request
import urllib.parse

@asyncio.coroutine
def print_status_code(url_q):
while True:
url = yield from url_q.get()
print('URL recieved from q:', url)
if url is None:
return

url = urllib.parse.urlsplit(url)

reader, writer = yield from asyncio.open_connection(url.hostname, 80)

query = ('GET {url.path} HTTP/1.0\r\n'
 'Host: {url.hostname}\r\n'
 '\r\n').format(url=url)

writer.write(query.encode('latin-1'))
line = yield from reader.readline()
code = line.decode('latin1').split()[0]
print((%s) %s, code, url.path)

if __name__ == __main__:
from bs4 import BeautifulSoup as bs
sitemap = urllib.request.urlopen('http://ysar.net/sitemap.xml').read()
soup = bs(sitemap)
print('soup created')
tasks = []

num_coroutines = 10

q = asyncio.Queue()

for i in range(num_coroutines):  # start 10 tasks
tasks.append(asyncio.Task(print_status_code(q)))

for loc in soup.find_all('loc'):
q.put(loc.string)

for i in range(num_coroutines):  # Put poison pil.
q.put(None)

loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()
loop.run_until_complete(asyncio.wait(tasks))

This program is supposed to give me status codes for web pages that
are found on my sitemap.xml file. But program hangs as Tasks wait for
getting something out of the Queue. I think it has something to do
with how I am using asyncio.Queue, but I couldn't figure out what am I
doing wrong here. Can anyone help me with that?
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Re: asyncip application hangs

2014-07-22 1:19 GMT+03:00 Yaşar Arabacı yasar11...@gmail.com:
 This program is supposed to give me status codes for web pages that
 are found on my sitemap.xml file. But program hangs as Tasks wait for
 getting something out of the Queue. I think it has something to do
 with how I am using asyncio.Queue, but I couldn't figure out what am I
 doing wrong here. Can anyone help me with that?

Ok, I figured out what was wrong with my code.

Since asyncio.Queue.put() is a coroutine, I should have wrapped those
with asyncio.Task in order for them to start executing.

Therefore, this works;

q = asyncio.Queue()
loop = asyncio.get_event_loop()

for i in range(num_coroutines):  # start 10 tasks
tasks.append(asyncio.Task(print_status_code(q)))

for loc in soup.find_all('loc'):
asyncio.Task(q.put(loc.string))

for i in range(num_coroutines):  # Put poison pil.
asyncio.Task(q.put(None))

print(%i items in queue % q.qsize())

loop.run_until_complete(asyncio.wait(tasks))

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Re: Network/multi-user program

On 2014-07-21, Lele Gaifax l...@metapensiero.it wrote:
 Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com writes:
 How hard was it to migrate from a desktop app to what you have now?

 Well, basically I rewrote everything, there's nothing in common. The
 original application was written in Delphi, using Paradox tables, no
 i18n, no multiuser, no PDF printouts... On the other hand, with Python
 is far easier to get something working, and databasing with SQLAlchemy
 is a pleasure. On the frontend, ExtJS is impressive, even if it has its
 own drawbacks.

Any hints/opinions on what those drawbacks might be?  I know literally
almost nothing about JS.  I worked thru a short generic tutorial a couple
years ago, but nothing like these libraries I see people talking about
now like jquery, angular, ext, and so on.  Hence my hesitation at adding
another learning curve on top of python and the various libraries needed
for this first 'real' project.

Monte

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A Pythonista Meets JavaScript™ (was: Network/multi-user program)

2014-07-21 Thread Ben Finney

Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com writes:

 I know literally almost nothing about JS.

At the Melbourne Python Users's Group this year, I gave a presentation
URL:http://vimeo.com/album/2855296/video/93691338 on my initial
learnings of JavaScript™ (and ECMAScript) from a Python programmer's
perspective.

Hope that's useful to anyone interested in the intersection of these
languages and their cultures.

-- 
 \   “If consumers even know there's a DRM, what it is, and how it |
  `\ works, we've already failed.” —Peter Lee, Disney corporation, |
_o__) 2005 |
Ben Finney

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Re: Network/multi-user program

2014-07-21 Thread Roy Smith

In article mailman.12158.1405983216.18130.python-l...@python.org,
 Monte Milanuk memila...@invalid.com wrote:

 Any hints/opinions on what those drawbacks might be?  I know literally
 almost nothing about JS.  I worked thru a short generic tutorial a couple
 years ago, but nothing like these libraries I see people talking about
 now like jquery, angular, ext, and so on.  Hence my hesitation at adding
 another learning curve on top of python and the various libraries needed
 for this first 'real' project.

In the beginning, there was javascript.  It was used to do cutesy little 
things like animated U/I elements and perform certain actions when your 
browser detected events like clicking on a button or moving the mouse 
cursor over an image.

But, javascript is a real (if bletcherous) programming language.  It's 
got functions and variables and loops and if statements and classes (OK, 
it doesn't really have classes, but it has things that we can pretend 
are classes, if we squint hard).  It can talk to the network and 
generate HTML on the fly.  So, people started building a whole new kind 
of web site.

Instead of having an application running on the server which spits out 
HTML and CSS, and little bits of javascript to tweak those, we've got a 
full-blown javascript application running in the browser.  That 
application is retrieving data from the server, doing useful things with 
it, and totally managing the HTML that you see rendered in your browser 
window.  Things like jquery and (even more so) angular, backbone, ember, 
etc, are frameworks which make it easier to write these applications, in 
much the same way frameworks like django make it easier to write 
server-side web applications in Python.

The truly sucky part of this picture is that javascript is a horrible 
language, but you have no choice.  It's the only thing that runs in 
browsers.  On the server side, if you don't like Python, you can write 
your app in Java, or Go, or Ruby, or a host of other languages (even 
javascript, if you want).  On the client side, no so much.
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async, on-demand lazy rendering for jinja2 possible?

2014-07-21 Thread est

Hi all,

Been reading @igrigorik's posts https://www.igvita.com/archives/

I found that flush response as early as possible is crucial for a website
performance.

I wanna make Time To First Byte (TTTFB) happen as early as possible with a
Jinja2 site,

Suppose a typical Jinja2 template:

htmlhead
  title{{ site_title }}/title
/headbody
ul
{% for item in items %}
  liitem/li
{% endfor %}
/ul
/body/html

Let's presume site_title is static and known in view function from the
start, I wanna flush everything before body to the client as early as
possible, then items was a query from db, it's kinda slower, let's flush
the everything below  body later in a second TCP packet.

This looks like impossible at the moment. I searched the Jinja2 docs, the
closest thing I've found is the streaming template API

jinja2.Template('Hello {{ name }}!').stream(name='foo')

Which still requires all variables to be ready before rendering.

Is there a way to stream partial template results with partial template
variables? This would be great help making faster websites. Other template
engine than Jinja2 is welcome as long as it's in python! Thanks in advance!
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Re: Installing Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 12.1

2014-07-21 Thread Miki Tebeka

Greetings,

 The installation went through successfully, however I
 noticed that some of the _*.so files did not get built under
 lib/python2.6/lib-dynload/ folder (eg _sha256.so) , which is likely the reason
 why my setuptools install failed due to the error:
I believe you need the developer libraries for that (including the C header 
files). IIRC sudo apt-get build-dep python should install all the required 
packages.

HTH,
--
Miki
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[issue22020] tutorial 9.10. Generators statement error

2014-07-21 Thread Albert Ho


New submission from Albert Ho:

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/classes.html
 for char in reverse('golf'):

I found that reverse didnt work
and i check the doc
https://docs.python.org/3.4/library/functions.html#reversed
 reversed(seq)¶

I guess it just forget to change the statement

--
messages: 223560
nosy: rt135792005
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: tutorial 9.10. Generators statement error
type: compile error
versions: Python 3.4

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[issue22020] tutorial 9.10. Generators statement error

2014-07-21 Thread Ezio Melotti


Ezio Melotti added the comment:

The reverse function is defined just above the example that uses it.

--
assignee:  - docs@python
components: +Documentation
nosy: +docs@python, ezio.melotti
resolution:  - not a bug
stage:  - resolved
status: open - closed
type: compile error - behavior

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[issue22013] Add at least minimal support for thread groups

2014-07-21 Thread Charles-François Natali


Charles-François Natali added the comment:

 Tin Tvrtković added the comment:

 For your examples, my first instinct would be to use a thread pool executor. 
 It's a nice high level API and can already do the aggregate join.

Indeed, the examples posted don't make much sense: thread/process
pools are the way to go.

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[issue21901] test_selectors.PollSelectorTestCase.test_above_fd_setsize reported killed by shell

2014-07-21 Thread Charles-François Natali


Charles-François Natali added the comment:

 rdmurray@pydev:~/python/p34python -c 'import resource; 
 print(resource.getrlimit(resource.RLIMIT_NOFILE))'
 (1024L, 1048576L)

 Oh, 1 million files is much bigger than 4 thousand files (4096).

 The test should only test FD_SETSIZE + 10 files, the problem is to get 
 FD_SETSITE:

We could cap it to let's say 2**16, it's larger than any possible
FD_SETSIZE (which are usually low since fd_set are often allocated on
the stack and select() doesn't scale well behind that anyway).

But I don't see anything wrong with the test, it's really the buildbot
setting which is to blame: I expect other tests to fail with such a
low max virtual memory.

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[issue16778] Logger.findCaller needs to be smarter

2014-07-21 Thread Vinay Sajip


Vinay Sajip added the comment:

 Maybe simply having a class list

Thanks, I'm aware of this approach and have considered it. The current patch's 
skipCallers API seems better than exposing an internal list, but I have held 
off implementing this in the hope that an approach based on frame annotations 
can be used.

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[issue22012] struct.unpack('?', '\x02') returns (False,) on Mac OSX

2014-07-21 Thread Ronald Oussoren


Ronald Oussoren added the comment:

I just confirmed that clang only uses the LSB for _Bool values by looking at 
the assembly generated for the following code:

quote
#include stdbool.h
#include stdio.h

int main(void)
{
_Bool x;
*(unsigned char*)x = 42;
printf(%d\n, (int)x);
return 0;
}
/quote

The attached patch fixes the issue for me. The new testcase fails without the 
changes to _struct.c and passes with those changes.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file36010/issue-22012.txt

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[issue22012] struct.unpack('?', '\x02') returns (False,) on Mac OSX

2014-07-21 Thread Ronald Oussoren


Ronald Oussoren added the comment:

The last draf of ISO C '11: 
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf.

This says that _Bool is large enough to store 0 and 1, and that conversion of 
any integer data to _Bool results in 0 or 1.  If I interpret the document 
correctly there is no conforming way to create a value of _Bool that has a 
value other than 0 or 1, and that should mean clang's behavior is not a bug.

BTW. I haven't tested my patch on a PPC system yet (where sizeof(bool) != 1), 
and won't be able to do so until I'm back home (I'm currently at EuroPython)

--
keywords: +needs review, patch
stage:  - patch review

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[issue17695] _sysconfigdata broken with universal builds on OSX

2014-07-21 Thread Ronald Oussoren


Ronald Oussoren added the comment:

Sure... The issue is still present. To demonstrate the problem:

arch -i386 ./python.exe
Python 3.5.0a0 (default:9b450b19aa11+, Jul 21 2014, 10:03:38) 
[GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 5.1 (clang-503.0.40)] on darwin
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
 import sys
 sys.maxsize
2147483647
 import sysconfig
 sysconfig.get_config_var('SIZEOF_LONG')
8
 

This is on a machine that can run 64-bit code and uses a fat binary with i386 
and x86_64 support. The script generating _sysconfigdata.py used the x86_64 
code and hence created data that's only valid for the x86_64 binary.

It's easy enough to to create a patch that reproduces the preprocessor code in 
pymacconfig.h in sysconfig.py, but I'm not sure if that is the right fix in 
particular due to the vagueness of the sysconfig API.  

A short rant:

IMHO the current API of sysconfig is underspecified and tied way to much the 
arbitrary details of the CPython build system (not the actual function keys, 
but the set of information that can be retrieved). There is no documentation at 
all on which keys are present and what there meaning is. As an example, there 
have been a number of issues in the past where users tried to use the value for 
key that's only meant to be used at CPython build time and users complained 
that the value didn't work for them with an installed CPython.

--
stage:  - needs patch

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[issue22021] shutil.make_archive() root_dir do not work

2014-07-21 Thread Weinan Li


New submission from Weinan Li:

set root_dir do not work

output:
=
Python 3.4.0 (v3.4.0:04f714765c13, Mar 16 2014, 19:25:23) [MSC v.1600 64 bit 
(AMD64)] on win32
Type copyright, credits or license() for more information.
 import shutil
 shutil.make_archive(tmp.tar.gz, gztar, c:/xjtu, c:/tmp)
'C:\\Python34\\tmp.tar.gz.tar.gz'
=

source code of make_archive()
=
756save_cwd = os.getcwd()
757if root_dir is not None:
758if logger is not None:
759logger.debug(changing into '%s', root_dir)
760base_name = os.path.abspath(base_name)
761if not dry_run:
762os.chdir(root_dir)
...
...
782try:
783filename = func(base_name, base_dir, **kwargs)
784finally:
=

base_name is set before chdir, so the archive always be created in cwd, whether 
set root_dir or not.
so, line 760 should be move below line 762

--
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 223568
nosy: DemoHT
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: shutil.make_archive()  root_dir do not work
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.4

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[issue22021] shutil.make_archive() root_dir do not work

2014-07-21 Thread Ezio Melotti


Ezio Melotti added the comment:

Thanks for the report, do you want to provide a patch?
(You can check the devguide if you need more information.)

--
keywords: +easy
nosy: +ezio.melotti, hynek, tarek
stage:  - needs patch

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[issue8706] accept keyword arguments on most base type methods and builtins

2014-07-21 Thread Julien Palard


Julien Palard added the comment:

I think for some builtins it may be usefull to have keyword arguments, in the 
case they take more than one parameter.

Typically, it's impossible to write:

self.drop_elements(partial(isinstance, type(lxml.etree.Comment)))

Because isinstance take its argument in the other order, we may bypass this 
using keywords arguments:


self.drop_elements(partial(isinstance, type=type(lxml.etree.Comment)))

But isinstance refuses keyword arguments, so there is no way to write this 
without a lambda:

self.drop_elements(lambda x: isinstance(x,
   type(lxml.etree.Comment)))

With is cool and work, I agree, it's just an example to explicitly show why 
keywords argument may be cool: functools.partial.

--
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[issue21901] test_selectors.PollSelectorTestCase.test_above_fd_setsize reported killed by shell

2014-07-21 Thread R. David Murray


R. David Murray added the comment:

That is the only test that fails for lack of memory.  And it's not the 
buildbot, it's my development virtual machine.  Having the test suite be killed 
when I do a full test run is...rather annoying.

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[issue22021] shutil.make_archive() root_dir do not work

2014-07-21 Thread R. David Murray


R. David Murray added the comment:

I believe this is working as designed, although the documentation does not make 
that clear.  root dir is the root directory of the *created archive*, it has 
nothing to do with where the archive file itself is placed.

--
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components: +Documentation
nosy: +docs@python, r.david.murray

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[issue21901] test_selectors.PollSelectorTestCase.test_above_fd_setsize reported killed by shell

2014-07-21 Thread Charles-François Natali


Charles-François Natali added the comment:

Alright, I'll cap the value then (no need to expose FD_SETSIZE).

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[issue22018] signal: accept socket for signal.set_wakeup_fd()


Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 6b536f0516ea by Victor Stinner in branch 'default':
Issue #22018: Add _testcapi.raise_signal()
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/6b536f0516ea

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[issue22018] signal: accept socket for signal.set_wakeup_fd()


STINNER Victor added the comment:

 My worry is that somehow a program has a fd that refers to both a file and a 
 socket. But I agree that changing the API is not a great option either.

Well, when I read again my patch and played with it, I saw that it has 
different issues:

- a Windows socket handle is not an int, but a pointer: Python SOCKET_T type 
should be used instead

- when send() fails, we should reuse the code from socketmodule.c to raise an 
exception: we may need to check GetLastError() on Windows

I rewrote my patch to add a new function signal.set_wakeup_socket() instead of 
trying to guess if the file descriptor is a socket or a file. I adopted a 
similar approach in the PEP 446 with os.set_inheritable() and 
os.set_handle_inheritable() for the same reason: support sockets on Windows, 
socket.socket.set_inheritable() uses os.set_inheritable() on UNIX and 
os.set_handle_inheritable() on Windows.

signal.set_wakeup_socket() now takes a socket.socket object and returns the 
previous socket object (or None).

In the new patch, signal.set_wakeup_fd() and Py_SetWakeupFd() function are 
unchanged, which is more safer regarding to backward compatibility!

The first call to signal.set_wakeup_socket() imports the _socket module.

The Visual Studio still needs to be modified to add the dependency to the 
WinSock library (ws2_32.lib), just for the send() function.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file36011/signal_socket-2.patch

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[issue16748] Make CPython test package discoverable


Changes by Zachary Ware zachary.w...@gmail.com:


--
dependencies: +Make full use of test discovery in test subpackages
versions: +Python 3.5 -Python 3.3

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[issue22002] Make full use of test discovery in test subpackages


Zachary Ware added the comment:

Thank you, Brett and David.

@Mark: This issue is a continuation of the #16748 effort (#16748 is a 
meta-issue for this kind of thing) and unrelated to #10572 (though this will 
add a feature to test.support that can be useful for the scattered test 
packages).

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[issue22002] Make full use of test discovery in test subpackages


Zachary Ware added the comment:

Victor, could you give me a yay or nay on the test_asyncio change?

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[issue22018] signal: accept socket for signal.set_wakeup_fd()


Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 42cf963e3ab1 by Victor Stinner in branch 'default':
Issue #22018: signal.set_wakeup_fd() now raises an OSError instead of a
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/42cf963e3ab1

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[issue22005] datetime.setstate fails decoding python2 pickle

2014-07-21 Thread Edward O


Edward O added the comment:

The code works when using encoding='bytes'. Thanks Tim for the suggestion.

So this is not a bug, but is there any sense in having encoding='ASCII' by 
default in pickle ?

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[issue22018] Add a new signal.set_wakeup_socket() function


Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com:


--
title: signal: accept socket for signal.set_wakeup_fd() - Add a new 
signal.set_wakeup_socket() function

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[issue22018] Add a new signal.set_wakeup_socket() function


Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 7a1737033a23 by Victor Stinner in branch 'default':
Issue #22018: Hum, set_wakeup_fd() still raises ValueError on Windows
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/7a1737033a23

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[issue22003] BytesIO copy-on-write

2014-07-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou


Antoine Pitrou added the comment:

 Pretty sure this approach is broken. What about the alternative approach of 
 specializing for Bytes?

That would certainly sound good enough, to optimize the common case.

Also, it would be nice if you could add some tests to the patch (e.g. to stress 
the bytearray case). Thank you!

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[issue22003] BytesIO copy-on-write

2014-07-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou


Antoine Pitrou added the comment:

As for whether the checking for a readonly view approach is broken, I don't 
know: that part of the buffer API is still mysterious to me. Stefan, would you 
have some insight?

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[issue22013] Add at least minimal support for thread groups

2014-07-21 Thread Tshepang Lekhonkhobe


Changes by Tshepang Lekhonkhobe tshep...@gmail.com:


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[issue22003] BytesIO copy-on-write

2014-07-21 Thread Stefan Krah


Stefan Krah added the comment:

I think checking for a readonly view is fine.  The protocol is this:

  1) Use the PyBUF_WRITABLE flag in the request. Then the provider must
 either have a writable buffer or else deny the request entirely.

  2) Omit the PyBUF_WRITABLE flag in the request.  Then the provider can
 return a writable or a readonly buffer, but must set the readonly flag
 correctly AND export the same type of buffer to ALL consumers.

It is not possible to ask for a readonly buffer explicitly, but the
readonly flag in the Py_Buffer struct should always be set correctly.

It is hard to guess the original intention of the PEP-3118 authors, but
in practice readonly means immutable here.  IMO a buffer provider would
be seriously broken if a readonly buffer is mutated in any way.

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[issue22022] test_pathlib: shutil.rmtree() sporadic failures on Windows


New submission from STINNER Victor:

Sometimes, test_pathlib fails because shutil.rmtree() cannot remove a test 
directory. Example:

http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/AMD64%20Windows7%20SP1%203.x/builds/4833/steps/test/logs/stdio

==
ERROR: test_touch_common (test.test_pathlib.WindowsPathTest)
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File C:\buildbot.python.org\3.x.kloth-win64\build\lib\shutil.py, line 477, 
in rmtree
return _rmtree_unsafe(path, onerror)
  File C:\buildbot.python.org\3.x.kloth-win64\build\lib\shutil.py, line 367, 
in _rmtree_unsafe
_rmtree_unsafe(fullname, onerror)
  File C:\buildbot.python.org\3.x.kloth-win64\build\lib\shutil.py, line 376, 
in _rmtree_unsafe
onerror(os.rmdir, path, sys.exc_info())
  File C:\buildbot.python.org\3.x.kloth-win64\build\lib\shutil.py, line 374, 
in _rmtree_unsafe
os.rmdir(path)
OSError: [WinError 145] The directory is not empty: 
'C:\\buildbot.python.org\\3.x.kloth-win64\\build\\build\\test_python_3444\\@test_3444_tmp\\dirB'

The error comes from this cleanup function:

self.addCleanup(shutil.rmtree, BASE)

I don't understand how rmtree() can fail with The directory is not empty.

Note: this buildbot runs 4 tests in parallel using the -j4 command line 
option of regrtest.

--
components: Tests, Windows
keywords: buildbot
messages: 223584
nosy: haypo
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: test_pathlib: shutil.rmtree() sporadic failures on Windows
versions: Python 3.4, Python 3.5

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[issue22022] test_pathlib: shutil.rmtree() sporadic failures on Windows

2014-07-21 Thread Ned Batchelder


Ned Batchelder added the comment:

FWIW, every use of rmtree I have on Windows occasionally fails this way, 
parallelism seems not to be a factor.

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[issue22003] BytesIO copy-on-write

2014-07-21 Thread Stefan Krah


Stefan Krah added the comment:

The original wording in the PEP is this:

readonly

an integer variable to hold whether or not the memory is readonly. 1
means the memory is readonly, zero means the memory is writable.


To me this means that a hypothetical compiler that could figure
out at compile time that the readonly flag is set would be allowed
to put the buffer contents into the read-only data section.

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[issue22005] datetime.setstate fails decoding python2 pickle

2014-07-21 Thread Tim Peters


Tim Peters added the comment:

@eddygeek, I'd still call something so unintuitive a bug - it's hard to 
believe this is the _intended_ way to get it to work.  So I'd keep this open 
until someone with better knowledge of intent chimes in.

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[issue21822] KeyboardInterrupt during Thread.join hangs that Thread


Changes by STINNER Victor victor.stin...@gmail.com:


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[issue22003] BytesIO copy-on-write

2014-07-21 Thread David Wilson


David Wilson added the comment:

Stefan,

Thanks for digging here. As much as I'd love to follow this interpretation, it 
simply doesn't match existing buffer implementations, including within the 
standard library.

For example, mmap.mmap(..., flags=mmap.MAP_SHARED, prot=mmap.PROT_READ) will 
produce a read-only buffer, yet mutability is entirely at the whim of the 
operating system. In this case, immutability may be apparent for years, until 
some machine has memory pressure, causing the shared mapping to be be flushed, 
and refreshed from (say, incoherent NFS storage) on next access.

I thought it would be worth auditing some of the most popular types of buffer 
just to check your interpretation, and this was the first, most obvious 
candidate.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning heavily toward the Bytes specialization approach

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[issue22022] test_pathlib: shutil.rmtree() sporadic failures on Windows


Zachary Ware added the comment:

This looks like a duplicate of #19811, which was closed as a duplicate of 
#19629.

--
nosy: +zach.ware
resolution:  - duplicate
stage:  - resolved
status: open - closed
superseder:  - support.rmtree fails on symlinks under Windows

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[issue19811] test_pathlib: The directory is not empty error on os.rmdir()


Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 1db5cde4958f by Victor Stinner in branch '3.4':
Issue #19811, #22022: test_pathlib uses support.rmtree() instead of
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/1db5cde4958f

New changeset e405bcbf761c by Victor Stinner in branch 'default':
Merge Python 3.4
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/e405bcbf761c

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[issue19629] support.rmtree fails on symlinks under Windows


Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 28bb1aa9ca3d by Victor Stinner in branch '3.4':
Issue #19629: Fix support.rmtree(), use os.lstat() to check if the file is a
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/28bb1aa9ca3d

New changeset e405bcbf761c by Victor Stinner in branch 'default':
Merge Python 3.4
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/e405bcbf761c

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[issue22022] test_pathlib: shutil.rmtree() sporadic failures on Windows


Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 1db5cde4958f by Victor Stinner in branch '3.4':
Issue #19811, #22022: test_pathlib uses support.rmtree() instead of
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/1db5cde4958f

New changeset e405bcbf761c by Victor Stinner in branch 'default':
Merge Python 3.4
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/e405bcbf761c

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[issue20064] PyObject_Malloc is not documented