[issue43858] Provide method to get list of logging level names

[Andrei Kulakov]

Change by Andrei Kulakov :


--
keywords: +patch
pull_requests: +25054
stage:  -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/26459

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Re: Definition of "property"

[Eryk Sun]

On 5/30/21, Ethan Furman  wrote:
>
>  > Properties are a special kind of attribute. Basically, when Python
> encounters the following code:
>  >
>  > spam = SomeObject()
>  > print(spam.eggs)
>  >
>  > it looks up eggs in spam, and then examines eggs to see if it has a
> __get__, __set__, or __delete__
>  > method — if it does, it's a property.

The above is not quite right. Having a __get__ method is not
sufficient. In the quoted example, the `eggs` attribute of the
SomeObject type has to be a data descriptor type, which means it
defines a __set__ and/or __delete__ method. A computed attribute
that's implemented by a data descriptor type cannot be overridden by
an instance attribute of the same name. In contrast, a non-data
descriptor type only defines a __get__ method  (e.g. the `function`
type is a non-data descriptor). A computed attribute that's
implemented by a non-data descriptor type will be overridden by an
instance attribute of the same name. The two common data descriptor
types are `property` and `member_descriptor` (from __slots__), but
creating custom data descriptor types is easy to implement.

See "customizing attribute access" in the data model documentation,
and in particular "implementing descriptors" and "invoking
descriptors":

https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#customizing-attribute-access
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RE: Definition of "property"

[Avi Gross via Python-list]

You guys are all very knowledgeable but he is asking what to say to an
EDITOR who clearly may know little or nothing about computers and thinks
python is a snake and not a language and may need to be spoken to in his own
language which understands other forms of abstraction better.

So, just for humor, give him the communist version of property. Property is
owned by the state and is a reflection of such a state. It is hidden and can
only be accessed through apparatchiks working for the state. You tell them
what you want and they go invisibly and do whatever they want which may even
include manipulating what lies underneath the capitalist concept of a
property. This is called a Setter as in you set it up and they knock it
down.

Now when you ask for some kind of report of what the property is now like,
that is a getter as you get what they feel like giving. And, yes, if you ask
them to delete it, if it indeed still exists (or ever existed) they may tell
you it was deleted and then take it for themselves!

So, a property is something abstract that you are not allowed to see or in
any way interact with except through layers that hide things and take it on
faith that it is being done in a way that is good for you, OR ELSE.

Now would your editor understand that?

Disclaimer: I repeat, humor. Others have provided decent answers. But, they
were not necessarily born in a communist country which your parents luckily
took you out of in time!


-Original Message-
From: Python-list  On
Behalf Of Alan Gauld via Python-list
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2021 4:20 PM
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Definition of "property"

On 30/05/2021 17:57, Irv Kalb wrote:
> I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little
stuck.  

Oh dear, that's one of myt hot buttons I'm afraid!
I hope it really is about OOP and not about classes. Classes are such a
minor part of OOP that it is depressing how many books and articles focus on
them to the exclusion of all else that make up the OOP paradigm! Anyway,
rant over...

> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits,

Do you? What is that based on? Is it how properties are used in OOP?
Or how they are used in Python? Is your book truly about OOP or how Python
does OOP (very different things!) How do python properties compare to
properties in other languages like Object Pascal(aka Delphi) and Eiffel for
example?
Which of these 3 options most closely models the pure OOP concept of a
property?

> definition of property.  

In OOP or in Python? Or both?

> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as 
> decorators that create a copy of the property with the corresponding 
> accessor function set to the decorated function.

That's a very Pythonic description.

> (I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the 
> property function, as that would distract from the points that I am 
> trying to make.)

Which are?
Hopefully, about abstraction of data and function/methods therby encouraging
polymorphic representations of program structures, which is the essence of
OOP.

--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos


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[issue44270] shutil.which: does not find path/cmd.ext where ext is not given

[Eryk Sun]

Eryk Sun  added the comment:

Michael, thank you for the PR, but please associate it with the existing issue 
bpo-24505.

--
nosy: +eryksun
resolution:  -> duplicate
stage: patch review -> resolved
status: open -> closed
superseder:  -> shutil.which wrong result on Windows
versions:  -Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8

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[issue44270] shutil.which: does not find path/cmd.ext where ext is not given

[Michael Hirsch, Ph.D.]

Michael Hirsch, Ph.D.  added the comment:

Correction:

Example: on Windows if ./foo.exe exists, then shutil.which('./foo') returns 
None.

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[issue44270] shutil.which: does not find path/cmd.ext where ext is not given

[Michael Hirsch, Ph.D.]

Change by Michael Hirsch, Ph.D. :


--
keywords: +patch
pull_requests: +25053
stage:  -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/26458

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[issue44270] shutil.which: does not find path/cmd.ext where ext is not given

[Michael Hirsch, Ph.D.]

New submission from Michael Hirsch, Ph.D. :

The early short-circuit logic in shutil.which() when cmd includes a directory 
component incorrectly gives None on Windows if the correct filename suffix was 
not also given.

Example: on Windows if ./foo.exe exists, then shutil.which('./foo.exe') returns 
None.

--
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 394784
nosy: michael2
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: shutil.which: does not find path/cmd.ext where ext is not given
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.10, Python 3.11, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 
3.9

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[issue44206] Add a version number to dict keys.

[Inada Naoki]

Inada Naoki  added the comment:

Can we close this issue?

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Re: Definition of "property"

[Dan Stromberg]

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 9:57 AM Irv Kalb  wrote:

> I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little
> stuck.
>
> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but
> apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.
> The editor is asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many
> articles on line and a number of books, and I haven't found an appropriate
> one yet.
>
> I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a
> definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but
> my attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found
> so far is from the Python documentation:
>
> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as
> decorators that create a copy of the property with the corresponding
> accessor function set to the decorated function.
>
> But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two
> sentence) definition of the word "property".
>
> (I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the
> property function, as that would distract from the points that I am trying
> to make.)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>

I tend to think of properties as dynamic attributes.

And I'm not their biggest fan.  I don't like having a look where a class
and its parent classes are defined to tell if something that looks like an
attribute, really is an attribute.

I understand that exposing an attribute as part of a public API is faster,
and the ability to make them dynamic later keeps you from painting yourself
in a corner, but I'd rather just slow down computation a little than end up
with a little greater maintenance burden.
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Re: Definition of "property"

[Mike Dewhirst]

On 31/05/2021 2:57 am, Irv Kalb wrote:

I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little stuck.

I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but 
apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.  The editor is 
asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many articles on line and a number 
of books, and I haven't found an appropriate one yet.

I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a 
definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but my 
attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found so far 
is from the Python documentation:

A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as decorators 
that create a copy of the property with the corresponding accessor function set 
to the decorated function.

But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two sentence) 
definition of the word "property".


A property is an object method masquerading as a cachable object attribute



(I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the property 
function, as that would distract from the points that I am trying to make.)

Thanks in advance,

Irv



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[issue43964] ctypes CDLL search path issue on MacOS

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Thanks for the report! I've spent some time investigating it and the story 
behind it turns out to be a bit complicated, so bear with me. It's all tied in 
to Apple's attempts to improve the security of macOS.

As of macOS 10.15 Catalina, Apple introduced new requirements for downloadable 
installer packages, like those we provide for macOS on python.org; in order for 
such packages to be installed with the macOS installer, they would now have to 
be "notarized" by Apple. The notarization process is somewhat similar in 
concept to the process that an app has to go through to be submitted to the Mac 
App Store but with less stringent requirements. In particular, the installer 
package is automatically inspected to ensure that all executables are 
codesigned, are linked with the more-secure "hardened runtime", and do not 
request certain less-secure entitlements. Although originally announced for 
enforcement starting with the release of Catalina in the fall of 2019, Apple 
delayed the enforcement until February 2020 to give application developers more 
time to modify their packages to meet the new requirements. (See, for example, 
https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=12232019a).

The first python.org macOS installers that conformed to the new requirements 
and were notarized were for the 3.8.2 and 3.7.7 releases, staring in 2020-02. 
In those first releases, we used two entitlements:

com.apple.security.cs.disable-library-validation
com.apple.security.cs.disable-executable-page-protection

Some issues were reported (like Issue40198) when using those first releases, so 
we added two additional entitlements for subsequent releases:

com.apple.security.automation.apple-events
com.apple.security.cs.allow-dyld-environment-variables

While we didn't realize it until your issue, that did have an effect on ctype's 
behavior when trying to find shared libraries and frameworks. Using the 
hardened runtime, as now required for notarization, causes the system dlopen() 
interface, which ctypes uses, to no longer search relative paths. The dlopen 
man page (for macOS 11, at least) includes this warning:

  Note: If the main executable is a set[ug]id binary or codesigned with
  entitlements, then all environment variables are ignored, and only a
  full path can be used.

After some experimentation, it looks like that statement isn't exactly correct 
at least on macOS 11 Big Sur: unprefixed paths can still be used to find 
libraries and frameworks in system locations, i.e. /usr/lib and 
/System/Library/Frameworks. But it is true that, when using the hardened 
runtime, dlopen() no longer searches the user-controlled paths /usr/local/lib 
or /Library/Frameworks by default. And there apparently is no way for a 
notarized executable to revert to the previous behavior by adding other 
entitlements (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/666066).

With the allow-dyld-environment-variables entitlement included after the 
initial releases, it *is* now possible to change this behavior externally, if 
necessary, by explicitly setting the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH and/or 
DYLD_FRAMEWORK_PATH environment variables (see man 1 dyld).

To demonstrate using a third-party library in /usr/local/lib (similar results 
with third-party frameworks in /Library/Frameworks):

# -- python.org 3.7.6, not codesigned --
$ /usr/local/bin/python3.7
Python 3.7.6 (v3.7.6:43364a7ae0, Dec 18 2019, 14:18:50)
[Clang 6.0 (clang-600.0.57)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import ctypes
>>> ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary('libsodium.dylib')


# -- python.org 3.7.7, first notarized release --
$ /usr/local/bin/python3.7
Python 3.7.7 (v3.7.7:d7c567b08f, Mar 10 2020, 02:56:16)
[Clang 6.0 (clang-600.0.57)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import ctypes
>>> ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary('libsodium.dylib')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.7/lib/python3.7/ctypes/__init__.py",
 line 442, in LoadLibrary
return self._dlltype(name)
  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.7/lib/python3.7/ctypes/__init__.py",
 line 364, in __init__
self._handle = _dlopen(self._name, mode)
OSError: dlopen(libsodium.dylib, 6): no suitable image found.  Did find:
file system relative paths not allowed in hardened programs

$ DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib /usr/local/bin/python3.7
Python 3.7.7 (v3.7.7:d7c567b08f, Mar 10 2020, 02:56:16)
[Clang 6.0 (clang-600.0.57)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import ctypes
>>> ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary('libsodium.dylib')
[...]
OSError: dlopen(libsodium.dylib, 6): no suitable image found.  Did find:
file system relative paths not allowed in hardened programs


# -- python.org 3.7.8 and beyond including 3.9.x --
$ /usr/local/bin/python3.7
Python 

Re: How to debug python + curses? [was: RE: Applying winpdb_reborn]

[Cameron Simpson]

On 31May2021 07:46, Chris Angelico  wrote:
>On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 7:03 AM Alan Gauld via Python-list
> wrote:
>> You are not alone. debugging curses is one of the biggest obstacles 
>> to its use. [...]
>
>Never had this problem with curses per se (partly because I've used it
>very little), but a more general technique for debugging things that
>don't have a "normal" console is to create one via a pipe or file. The
>easiest way is something like:
>
>log = open("logfile.txt", "w")
>print(f"At this point, {foo=}", file=log, flush=True)
[...]

Also untried, but should work:

Open another terminal, note its terminal device with the "tty" command.  
Start your programme like this:

python .. 2>/dev/tty-of-the-other-termina

Send debug statements to sys.stderr. They should show in the other 
window.

I'd also think one could do some kind of shuffle setting up curses to 
attach its display to another terminal, letting you use an interactive 
debugging in the invoking terminal. Haven't tried this yet.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: How to debug python + curses? [was: RE: Applying winpdb_reborn]

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 7:03 AM Alan Gauld via Python-list
 wrote:
>
> On 30/05/2021 18:26, pjfarl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> > I tried winpdb-reborn some time last year on my Win10 system (python 3.8.3
> > at that time), but could not figure out how to use it to debug a python
> > script that uses the curses module.
>
> You are not alone. debugging curses is one of the biggest obstacles to
> its use.
>
> My approach is to define a status line at the bottom of my program and
> write print statements into that window. Something like:
>
> def main(stdwin):
> appwin = curses.newwin(...) # LINES-1 high
> status = curses.newwin(...) # 1 line high positioned on bottom
> # more code here
> status.addstr(0,0, "Value of foo = %s" % foo)
>
> curses.wrapper(main)
>
> After debugging the status window can either be retained as an
> application status bar or removed and the main window
> enlarged by one line...
>
> If anyone else has found a better way to debug curses code I'm
> also keen to hear!
>

Never had this problem with curses per se (partly because I've used it
very little), but a more general technique for debugging things that
don't have a "normal" console is to create one via a pipe or file. The
easiest way is something like:

log = open("logfile.txt", "w")
print(f"At this point, {foo=}", file=log, flush=True)

Then, in a separate window - or even on a completely different
machine, via SSH or equivalent - "tail -F logfile.txt" will be your
console.

ChrisA
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Re: Definition of "property"

[dn via Python-list]

On 31/05/2021 04.57, Irv Kalb wrote:
> I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little 
> stuck.  
> 
> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but 
> apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.  
> The editor is asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many 
> articles on line and a number of books, and I haven't found an appropriate 
> one yet.
> 
> I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a 
> definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but my 
> attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found so 
> far is from the Python documentation:  
> 
> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as 
> decorators that create a copy of the property with the corresponding accessor 
> function set to the decorated function. 
> 
> But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two 
> sentence) definition of the word "property".   
> 
> (I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the property 
> function, as that would distract from the points that I am trying to make.) 

+1

Everything in Python is an object. Objects can perform an
almost-unlimited range of services, fulfilling a wide variety of
purposes. A property constrains the object to more focussed functionality
...
eg an integer which may not hold a negative value, a string which may
not be empty...
-- 
Regards,
=dn
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Re: How to debug python + curses? [was: RE: Applying winpdb_reborn]

[Alan Gauld via Python-list]

On 30/05/2021 18:26, pjfarl...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I tried winpdb-reborn some time last year on my Win10 system (python 3.8.3
> at that time), but could not figure out how to use it to debug a python
> script that uses the curses module.

You are not alone. debugging curses is one of the biggest obstacles to
its use.

My approach is to define a status line at the bottom of my program and
write print statements into that window. Something like:

def main(stdwin):
appwin = curses.newwin(...) # LINES-1 high
status = curses.newwin(...) # 1 line high positioned on bottom
# more code here
status.addstr(0,0, "Value of foo = %s" % foo)

curses.wrapper(main)

After debugging the status window can either be retained as an
application status bar or removed and the main window
enlarged by one line...

If anyone else has found a better way to debug curses code I'm
also keen to hear!

HTH
-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos


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Re: Definition of "property"

[Alan Gauld via Python-list]

On 30/05/2021 17:57, Irv Kalb wrote:
> I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little 
> stuck.  

Oh dear, that's one of myt hot buttons I'm afraid!
I hope it really is about OOP and not about classes. Classes
are such a minor part of OOP that it is depressing how many
books and articles focus on them to the exclusion of all
else that make up the OOP paradigm! Anyway, rant over...

> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, 

Do you? What is that based on? Is it how properties are used in OOP?
Or how they are used in Python? Is your book truly about OOP or
how Python does OOP (very different things!) How do python
properties compare to properties in other languages like
Object Pascal(aka Delphi) and Eiffel for example?
Which of these 3 options most closely models the pure OOP
concept of a property?

> definition of property.  

In OOP or in Python? Or both?

> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods 
> usable as decorators that create a copy of the property 
> with the corresponding accessor function set to the decorated function. 

That's a very Pythonic description.

> (I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation 
> with the property function, as that would distract from 
> the points that I am trying to make.) 

Which are?
Hopefully, about abstraction of data and function/methods
therby encouraging polymorphic representations of program structures,
which is the essence of OOP.

-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos


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Re: Python doesn't work

[Alan Gauld via Python-list]

On 30/05/2021 12:23, Mr.Incognito wrote:
>Hello
> 
>I downloaded the latest versioon of Python and tried to open several .py
>files, but it doesn't open. It opens for a sec, then closes itself. I
>tried uninstalling and reinstalling, but it doesn't work.

Most likely it is working but faster than you can see.
Python is a program interpreter so if you simply execute
a .py file, the interpreter will execute it and terminate.
Any output will be displayed in a terminal window which
will close when the interpreter finishes.

The way round that is to launch the programs from inside
an existing command shell. assuming you are on Windows hit
Windows-R and type cmd to get a Windows> prompt. Then type

C:\WINDOWS> py \path\to\python\file.py

And you should see the program output.

-- 
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos


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Re: Definition of "property"

[Terry Reedy]

On 5/30/2021 12:57 PM, Irv Kalb wrote:

I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little stuck.

I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but 
apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.  The editor is 
asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many articles on line and a number 
of books, and I haven't found an appropriate one yet.

I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a 
definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but my 
attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found so far 
is from the Python documentation:

A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as decorators 
that create a copy of the property with the corresponding accessor function set 
to the decorated function.

But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two sentence) 
definition of the word "property".

(I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the property 
function, as that would distract from the points that I am trying to make.)


From a user viewpoint, which is likely close to that of the editor, a 
property is a possibly dynamic class attribute managed by up to 3 hidden 
functions.


A user only needs to know that an attribute is a property when it has 
otherwise surprising dynamic behavior.  For instance, if 'time.now != 
time.now', or if 'time.now = something; print(time.now)' does not print 
'something'.


Note: at least one person says a property *pretends* to be an attribute. 
 I think a more useful view is that it *is* an attribute with a 
particular behind-the-scene implementation.  When a normal attribute is 
converted to a 'property', it effectively still is an attribute.  The 
syntax manipulating the attribute remains the same.  If one can set, 
get, and delete something dotted notation, it is an attribute.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Python doesn't work

[Michael F. Stemper]

On 30/05/2021 06.23, Mr.Incognito wrote:

Hello

I downloaded the latest versioon of Python and tried to open several .py
files, but it doesn't open. 


It doesn't open, is that correct?


  It opens for a sec, then closes itself.


No, I guess that it does open.


My guess would be that the following happens:
1. You click on the file in some GUI.
2. The program contained in that file executes; taking a second or so.
3. Having done what you asked it to, it goes away.


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[issue44262] tarfile: some content different output

[Filipe Laíns]

Filipe Laíns  added the comment:

Yeah, I understand. What you want is achieved by making sure the mtime from the 
tar archive, and files on the archive, is reproducible, like I demonstrated 
here.

Can this be closed?

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[issue44262] tarfile: some content different output

[Vasco Gervasi]

Vasco Gervasi  added the comment:

Dear Filipe,
sorry I did not explaing the use case, obiously this is a toy example to show 
my problem.
So I have pipeline, that from a repository generate a tar file, using a python 
script; if the hash of the tar file is different it will trigger other things.
As you can imagine each time the pipeline is run, the content is the same (if 
same commit) but the files timestamps are different and so the tar is different.

Thanks for pointing out that examples, I will check and let you know.

Thanks

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[issue44269] smtplib AUTH command doesn't handle EAI arguments

[John L]

New submission from John L :

In an EAI (SMTPUTF8) mail session, AUTH usernames and passwords can be UTF-8, 
not just ASCII.

The fix is easy.  In smtplib.py, in three places in the auth() and 
auth_cram_md5() routines change ".encode('ascii')" to 
".encode(self.command_encoding)"

I have tried this with EAI mail servers in India and China to be sure it works.

--
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 394779
nosy: jrlevine
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: smtplib AUTH command doesn't handle EAI arguments
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9

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Re: Python doesn't work

[Igor Korot]

Hi,

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 2:00 PM Mr.Incognito  wrote:
>
>Hello
>
>I downloaded the latest versioon of Python and tried to open several .py
>files, but it doesn't open. It opens for a sec, then closes itself. I
>tried uninstalling and reinstalling, but it doesn't work.

Did you try with right clicking the file in the Explorer and click "Open"?
You should either open the Terminal, navigate to the place where those py
files are and type "python  or try with IDLE.

Thank you.

>
>
>
>I hope you can help me!
>
>
>
>
>
>Saadetud Windows 10 rakendusest [1]Meil
>
>
>
> References
>
>Visible links
>1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Anthony Sottile]

Anthony Sottile  added the comment:

I have also shown that the performance is indeed not better in the nominal 
case, as demonstrated in the first case

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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Anthony Sottile]

Anthony Sottile  added the comment:

the toil is still present, the existing, good apis are deprecated and the new, 
bad apis are slow -- and the odd subclasses are still present

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Re: learning python ...

[황병희]

hw  writes:

> Hi,
>
> I'm starting to learn python and have made a little example program
> following a tutorial[1] I'm attaching.
>
> Running it, I'm getting:
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "[...]/hworld.py", line 18, in 
> print(isinstance(int, float))
> TypeError: isinstance() arg 2 must be a type or tuple of types
>
>
> I would understand to get an error message in line 5 but not in 18.
> Is this a bug or a feature?
>
>
> [1]: https://www.learnpython.org/en/Variables_and_Types
>

OK man i saw your code other messages. That is simple.
You wrote 'Python's default keywords' so that occurs conflict.

Bomb.

To avoid conflict, i append some prefix like as "_" or "__" when i
write down var/func names sometimes...

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

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[issue44268] gettext: deprecate selecting plural form by fractional numbers (part 2)

[Pablo Galindo Salgado]

Pablo Galindo Salgado  added the comment:

> Pablo, can we add these warnings in 3.10?

Thanks for checking! Yeah, I think it makes sense to go ahead adding these 
warnings to 3.10 . Please, add me as a reviewer to the backport PR to 3.10.

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Re: Definition of "property"

[Jon Ribbens via Python-list]

On 2021-05-30, Irv Kalb  wrote:
> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits,
> but apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my
> editor.  The editor is asking for a definition of property.  I've
> looked at many articles on line and a number of books, and I haven't
> found an appropriate one yet.
>
> I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a
> definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times,
> but my attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best
> I've found so far is from the Python documentation:  
>
> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as
> decorators that create a copy of the property with the corresponding
> accessor function set to the decorated function. 

A property is an attribute of a class that pretends to be a data
attribute but in fact causes methods to be called when it is
accessed.
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Python doesn't work

[Mr . Incognito]

   Hello

   I downloaded the latest versioon of Python and tried to open several .py
   files, but it doesn't open. It opens for a sec, then closes itself. I
   tried uninstalling and reinstalling, but it doesn't work.



   I hope you can help me!





   Saadetud Windows 10 rakendusest [1]Meil



References

   Visible links
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Re: Applying winpdb_reborn

[Alan Gauld via Python-list]

On 30/05/2021 00:03, Cameron Simpson wrote:

> I'd imagine debugging is much like it is in C. Wait for the breakpoint 
> to trip, then inspect the programme variables.

That's a pretty crude form of debugging (although much better than just
single stepping from the beginning!).

Adding conditional breakpoints that stop only when variables are at
certain values, tracepoints that print out a set of values every time a
line is executed and watchpoints that keep a running display of a set of
variables all allow much faster location of errors.

I don't recall how many of those pdb supports but I'm pretty
sure watch points and conditional breaks are there.

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Author of the Learn to Program web site
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Re: Definition of "property"

[Ethan Furman]

On 5/30/21 9:57 AM, Irv Kalb wrote:

> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but apparently my explanation hasn't made the 
light bulb go on for my editor.


My answer from Stackoverflow [1]:

> Properties are a special kind of attribute. Basically, when Python encounters 
the following code:
>
> spam = SomeObject()
> print(spam.eggs)
>
> it looks up eggs in spam, and then examines eggs to see if it has a __get__, 
__set__, or __delete__
> method — if it does, it's a property. If it is a property, instead of just 
returning the eggs object
> (as it would for any other attribute) it will call the __get__ method (since 
we were doing lookup)
> and return whatever that method returns.

Feel free to use that however you like.  :)

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[1] https://stackoverflow.com/a/7377013/208880
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Re: Definition of "property"

[Barry Scott]

> On 30 May 2021, at 17:57, Irv Kalb  wrote:
> 
> I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little 
> stuck.  
> 
> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but 
> apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.  
> The editor is asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many 
> articles on line and a number of books, and I haven't found an appropriate 
> one yet.
> 
> I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a 
> definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but my 
> attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found so 
> far is from the Python documentation:  
> 
> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as 
> decorators that create a copy of the property with the corresponding accessor 
> function set to the decorated function. 
> 
> But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two 
> sentence) definition of the word "property".   
> 
> (I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the property 
> function, as that would distract from the points that I am trying to make.) 

How does this sound?

An object is the combination of behaviour and state.

Classes define the object.
Methods allow the control of behaviour.
Properties hold the state.

The use of getter functions allows a property's value to be calculated.
The use of setting functions allows a property change to update the state an 
object.

The python property mechanism allows the getting and setter to be hidden from
the API as that the user of the object can see the propery as a simple 
attribute of
an object.

Barry



> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Irv
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

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How to debug python + curses? [was: RE: Applying winpdb_reborn]

[pjfarley3]

I tried winpdb-reborn some time last year on my Win10 system (python 3.8.3
at that time), but could not figure out how to use it to debug a python
script that uses the curses module.

Does anyone here know if winpdb-reborn or any other debugger can support
2-window debugging for a python script that uses the curses module?  It
seems to me that a 2-window debugging session is necessary for a python
script that uses the curses module because using curses takes over the
screen from which the script is started, so debugging output and script
output need to be in separate windows.

I've been forced to use a logger to trace critical values and program flow
for errors in such a script.  It works, but it is annoyingly slow to debug
that way.

TIA for any advice or RTFM you can provide.

Peter
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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Jason R. Coombs]

Jason R. Coombs  added the comment:

There are known performance concerns. I recommend to set those aside for now or 
move them to a separate issue because

(a) The performance is theoretically better in the nominal case because it 
avoids a sort/group operation.
(b) There are known performance degradations introduced by importlib_metadata 
3.5 to de-duplicate distributions, degradations mitigated somewhat by 
importlib_metadata 4.3.
(c) Compatibility layers may be confounding performance concerns.

May I suggest addressing performance concerns in the importlib_metadata project 
as that project provides much better granularity on the different changes?

> I think my only satisfactory outcome would be:
> - the original api returns actual dicts

The original API returns an actual dict subclass (SelectableGroups).

- the sub-api returns actual lists

With https://github.com/python/importlib_metadata/pull/323, this expectation is 
also met as EntryPoints is a list.

- the new select is implemented as a separate *new* api without changing the 
existing api

The new API is invoked only through opt-in calls not previously available in 
the old API. I believe this achieves your goal without requiring a new name for 
`entry_points` or `Distribution.entry_points` (and thus creating less toil for 
consumers).

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Re: imaplib: is this really so unwieldy?

[boB Stepp]

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 1:04 AM hw  wrote:
>
> On 5/28/21 2:36 AM, boB Stepp wrote:

> > 
> > Just as SMTP is the protocol for sending email, the Internet Message
> > Access Protocol (IMAP) specifies how to communicate with an email
> > provider’s server to retrieve emails sent to your email address.
> > Python comes with an imaplib module, but in fact the third-party
> > imapclient module is easier to use. This chapter provides an
> > introduction to using IMAPClient; the full documentation is at
> > http://imapclient.readthedocs.org/.
> >
> > The imapclient module downloads emails from an IMAP server in a rather
> > complicated format. Most likely, you’ll want to convert them from this
> > format into simple string values. The pyzmail module does the hard job
> > of parsing these email messages for you. You can find the complete
> > documentation for PyzMail at http://www.magiksys.net/pyzmail/.
> >
> > Install imapclient and pyzmail from a Terminal window. Appendix A has
> > steps on how to install third-party modules.
> > 

> I don't know which imaplib the author uses; the imaplib I found
> definitely doesn't give uids of the messages, contrary to the example
> he's giving.

Look at the above three paragraphs quoted from my original response.
The author is using *imapclient* and *pyzmail* as the author
indicates.

boB Stepp
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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Anthony Sottile]

Anthony Sottile  added the comment:

oops, tiny typo in those code examples, they should say `group=` instead of 
`name=` -- though the performance is unchanged:

(first example)
```console
$ ./venv39/bin/python t.py
0.6641988754272461
$ ./venv310/bin/python t.py
1.3172023296356201
```

(second example)
```console
$ ./venv39/bin/python t.py
0.014233589172363281
$ ./venv310/bin/python t.py
8.910593271255493
```

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Re: Definition of "property"

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:58 AM Irv Kalb  wrote:
>
> I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little stuck.
>
> I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but 
> apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.  
> The editor is asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many 
> articles on line and a number of books, and I haven't found an appropriate 
> one yet.
>
> I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a 
> definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but my 
> attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found so 
> far is from the Python documentation:
>
> A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as 
> decorators that create a copy of the property with the corresponding accessor 
> function set to the decorated function.
>
> But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two 
> sentence) definition of the word "property".
>

A property is an attribute with customized get/set behaviour.

It lets you change what normally happens when you say
"print(thing.attribute)" or "thing.attribute = spam".

Personally, I wouldn't bother mentioning deletion in the opening
definition, for brevity's sake, but it'll be there when you go into
detail.

ChrisA
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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Anthony Sottile]

Anthony Sottile  added the comment:

the `.select(...)` api is at least twice as slow as indexing as well:

setup:
```
virtualenv venv39 -p python3.9
venv39/bin/pip install flake8 pytest pytest-randomly
virtualenv venv39 -p python3.10
venv310/bin/pip install flake8 pytest pytest-randomly
```

```python
import importlib.metadata
import sys
import time


def f():
eps = importlib.metadata.entry_points()
if sys.version_info >= (3, 10):
eps.select(name='console_scripts')
else:
eps['console_scripts']


t0 = time.time()
for _ in range(100):
f()
t1 = time.time()
print(f'{t1-t0}')
```

```
$ ./venv39/bin/python t.py
0.687570333480835
$ ./venv310/bin/python t.py
1.3486714363098145
```

it is *way* worse when involving multiple entry points:

```python
import importlib.metadata
import sys
import time


# moved outside of the loop, already showed this component is slower
eps = importlib.metadata.entry_points()
def f():
# common for plugin systems to look up multiple entry points
for ep in ('console_scripts', 'flake8.extension', 'pytest11'):
if sys.version_info >= (3, 10):
eps.select(name=ep)
else:
eps[ep]


t0 = time.time()
for _ in range(1):
f()
t1 = time.time()
print(f'{t1-t0}')
```

```console
$ ./venv39/bin/python t.py
0.01629471778869629
$ ./venv310/bin/python t.py
8.569908380508423
```

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Definition of "property"

[Irv Kalb]

I am doing some writing (for an upcoming book on OOP), and I'm a little stuck.  

I understand what a "property" is, how it is used and the benefits, but 
apparently my explanation hasn't made the light bulb go on for my editor.  The 
editor is asking for a definition of property.  I've looked at many articles on 
line and a number of books, and I haven't found an appropriate one yet.

I have written some good examples of how it works, but I agree that a 
definition up front would be helpful.  I have tried a number of times, but my 
attempts to define it have not been clear.  Perhaps the best I've found so far 
is from the Python documentation:  

A property object has getter, setter, and deleter methods usable as decorators 
that create a copy of the property with the corresponding accessor function set 
to the decorated function. 

But I'm hoping that someone here can give me a more concise (one or two 
sentence) definition of the word "property".   

(I would like to avoid going through the whole derivation with the property 
function, as that would distract from the points that I am trying to make.) 

Thanks in advance,

Irv
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[issue34852] Counter-intuitive behavior of Server.close() / wait_closed()

[Aymeric Augustin]

Aymeric Augustin  added the comment:

Would it make sense to add `await asyncio.sleep(0)` in `Server.wait_closed()` 
to ensure that all connections reach `connection_made()` before `wait_closed()` 
returns?

This would be fragile but it would be an improvement over the current behavior, 
wouldn't it?

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[issue43413] tuple subclasses allow arbitrary kwargs

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Change by Serhiy Storchaka :


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[issue44262] tarfile: some content different output

[Filipe Laíns]

Filipe Laíns  added the comment:

tarfile will keep the mtime from the file, the issue is that you are touching 
the files in the beginning of the script. When you write to the files, you 
change the mtime (last modified time), which produces a different TarInfo. If 
you comment out the code that writes to the files, you get the exact same 
output.


#dir0 = Path("/tmp/a")
#dir0.mkdir(parents=True, exist_ok=True)
#fil0 = dir0 / "eph0"
#fil0.write_text("Text 0", encoding="UTF-8")
#fil1 = dir0 / "eph1"
#fil1.write_text("Text 1", encoding="UTF-8")
#fil2 = dir0 / "eph2"
#fil2.write_text("Text 2", encoding="UTF-8")


$ python compress.py
b'cc3bd1bf99edc4f0796e1c466d251b0f808db790cbdd55bc920c041fb405e535  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
b'cc3bd1bf99edc4f0796e1c466d251b0f808db790cbdd55bc920c041fb405e535  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
$ python compress.py
b'cc3bd1bf99edc4f0796e1c466d251b0f808db790cbdd55bc920c041fb405e535  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
b'cc3bd1bf99edc4f0796e1c466d251b0f808db790cbdd55bc920c041fb405e535  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'


If you are in a situation where the mtime may change, but you want the same 
output, you can reset it. See the last example in 
https://docs.python.org/3/library/tarfile.html#tar-examples.

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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Anthony Sottile]

Anthony Sottile  added the comment:

also https://github.com/miurahr/aqtinstall/issues/221

(this links to importlib-metadata tracker, not sure how you missed it)

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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Anthony Sottile]

Anthony Sottile  added the comment:

I also need `.sort(key=...)` for what it's worth, the error in this issue was 
just the first encountered

I think my only satisfactory outcome would be:

- the original api returns actual dicts
- the sub-api returns actual lists
- the new select is implemented as a separate *new* api without changing the 
existing api

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[issue43413] tuple subclasses allow arbitrary kwargs

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka  added the comment:

Surprisingly there were almost no tests for keyword arguments in subclasses.

PR 26456 makes checks for some classes (like tuple, list, frozenset) more 
strict: if subclass does not define __init__ or __new__, it will reject 
arbitrary keyword arguments.

It also makes the check in set.__init__() more lenient for uniformity with 
frozenset and list. Subclass of set can now define a __new__() method with 
additional keyword parameters without overriding also __init__().

Added tests for some of builtin classes.

Raymond, please take a look. It touches classes maintained tracked by you: 
set/frozenset, itertools, random.

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[issue44246] 3.10 beta 1: breaking change in importlib.metadata entry points

[Jason R. Coombs]

Jason R. Coombs  added the comment:

Thanks Zac for your input.

> Just chiming in with a plea to slow down the rate of changes to 
> importlib.metadata - I understand that you want to tidy up the API, but even 
> deprecations cause substantial work downstream.

It would be difficult to go much slower. Are you suggesting delaying the 
deprecation warning? My rationale for not delaying the deprecation warning is 
because it's possible using the backport to support the newer APIs all the way 
back to some end-of-life Pythons. If the deprecation warning is delayed, that 
seems to only delay the inevitable - that most projects will ultimately have to 
endure the toil of transitioning the code and relying on backports to support 
older Pythons.

Still, projects have the option to use the older APIs indefinitely by pinning 
the backport, or delay their adoption of the newer APIs by suppressing the 
warning. There's a lot of flexibility to limit the toil.

What approach would you recommend?

> Would it really be so bad to support the older APIs until they go end-of-life 
> in CPython?

At this point, I believe the code is compatible with all known use cases and 
it's conceivable the compatibility layer could be supported in Python releases 
until Python 3.9 is EOL. Is that what you're proposing? Would that help the 
Hypothesis case (or others)? My instinct is the value proposition there is 
small.

> For example, in Hypothesis we care a great deal about compatibility with all 
> supported Python versions (including treating warnings as errors) and try to 
> minimize the hard dependencies.  As a result, our entry-points handling looks 
> like this...

Project maintainers are allowed of course to treat warnings like errors, but 
since deprecation warnings are the primary mechanism for an upstream API to 
signal to the downstream that something is changing, projects should expect an 
increased amount of toil by transforming the default behavior of warnings.

I suspect that the hypothesis project could achieve forward compatibility 
within its constraints by vendoring `backports.entry_points_selectable`, and 
thus re-using a shared implementation of the conditional import dance. I've 
added a note to the project's README indicating that option. The implementation 
you have seems suitable, though.

> Change can be worth the cost, but there *is* a cost and the packaging 
> ecosystem is already painfully complex and fragmented.  Compatibility should 
> be a foundational principle, not an optional extra _if someone presents a 
> compelling use case!_

Agreed: compatibility is a foundational principle. Compatibility was built into 
the first release of this new behavior (importlib_metadata 3.6). Thanks to 
Anthony's feedback in the PR and extensive exploration and rewrites, the 
solution presented there has a fairly straightforward transition and clean 
separation of concerns. The case reported above, where compatibility was not 
achieved is an acknowledged missed concern, and I'm happy to invest the time to 
restore that compatibility if it's worth the trouble. The reason I'd thought 
it's not worth the trouble is because contrary to Anthony's claim, no user has 
reported an issue with index-based access on Distribution.entry_points results 
for the three months that this functionality has been in place, which is why a 
note about the incompatibility seemed sufficient (after the fact).

I'll proceed with adding compatibility for this reported case, although I worry 
that won't satisfy the concerns. Is there a satisfactory solution that doesn't 
involve reverting the changes? Is there an approach that meets the goals of the 
change with less disruption?

> I'm also seriously concerned that you take GitHub links as an indication of 
> who is affected.  Python is very very widely used, including in environments 
> that don't feed much back into the GitHub-open-source space, and I think it's 
> important to avoid breaking things for low-visibility users too.

I surely recognize that Github links and reports are only one indicator of one 
segment of the user base, but it's the sole indicator these projects have to 
solicit user concerns. That's why I pinned the issue reported about the 
Deprecation warning and used that forum to express concern and support for the 
users' issues and to present a variety of approaches for any number of users to 
avail themselves. I wanted to increase the visibility of the issue and limit 
the difficulty of addressing the intentional deprecation.

I mainly rely on Github reports and +1s on those reports as an indication of 
the impact of an issue. I use Github links as a means of networking. It was 
Anthony who suggested the links were an indication of a widespread issue. I 
only meant to contrast that concern to other breakages (in my experience) that 
showed dozens of links to affected issues. Linked issues are a secondary 
indicator at best.

I do expect that if users have an issue that 

[issue43413] tuple subclasses allow arbitrary kwargs

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Change by Serhiy Storchaka :


--
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stage:  -> patch review
pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/26456

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[issue44262] tarfile: some content different output

[Vasco Gervasi]

Vasco Gervasi  added the comment:

Dear Filipe,
thanks for your answer.
Following your suggestion, I have tried the attached file.

The output is:
$ python /data/compress.py
b'68963e137ced6ee2aa5a93e155b201a3c172e2683d4b15a0eab7c1d8d43e48b4  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
b'68963e137ced6ee2aa5a93e155b201a3c172e2683d4b15a0eab7c1d8d43e48b4  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
$ rm -rf a/
$ mv py_gzip.tgz py_gzip.tgz0
$ python /data/compress.py
b'9c897d82c332f0d5443fe66112abe5f318bf6e6574e44c5c3c385f398784ac35  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
b'9c897d82c332f0d5443fe66112abe5f318bf6e6574e44c5c3c385f398784ac35  
/tmp/py_gzip.tgz\n'
$ diffoscope py_gzip.tgz0 py_gzip.tgz
--- py_gzip.tgz0
+++ py_gzip.tgz
│   --- py_gzip.tgz0-content
├── +++ py_gzip.tgz-content
│ ├── file list
│ │ @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
│ │ -drwxr-xr-x   0 root (0) root (0)0 2021-05-30 
15:32:56.566535 a/
│ │ --rw-r--r--   0 root (0) root (0)6 2021-05-30 
15:32:56.566535 a/eph0
│ │ --rw-r--r--   0 root (0) root (0)6 2021-05-30 
15:32:56.566535 a/eph1
│ │ --rw-r--r--   0 root (0) root (0)6 2021-05-30 
15:32:56.566535 a/eph2
│ │ +drwxr-xr-x   0 root (0) root (0)0 2021-05-30 
15:33:16.956535 a/
│ │ +-rw-r--r--   0 root (0) root (0)6 2021-05-30 
15:33:16.956535 a/eph0
│ │ +-rw-r--r--   0 root (0) root (0)6 2021-05-30 
15:33:16.956535 a/eph1
│ │ +-rw-r--r--   0 root (0) root (0)6 2021-05-30 
15:33:16.966535 a/eph2

Even if I am specifing an mtime, it is not correctly applied.

Thanks

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[issue43858] Provide method to get list of logging level names

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger  added the comment:

> I can add getLevelNamesDict() which would return a copy of _nameToLevel

That seem like the best approach.

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nosy: +rhettinger

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[issue43858] Provide method to get list of logging level names

[Andy Lowry]

Andy Lowry  added the comment:

@andrei.avk Yes, that sounds just fine. Many thanks.

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[issue44265] Create an MSI Package

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

See https://bugs.python.org/issue25124 for a discussion on why MSI won't be 
supported going forward.

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[issue21550] Add Python implementation of the tar utility

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Change by Serhiy Storchaka :


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status: open -> closed

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[issue44260] _Random.seed() is called twice

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Change by Serhiy Storchaka :


--
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[issue44268] gettext: deprecate selecting plural form by fractional numbers (part 2)

[Serhiy Storchaka]

New submission from Serhiy Storchaka :

Non-integer numbers in GNUTranslations.ngettext() are deprecated since 3.7 (see 
issue28692 for rationale). But I forget to add deprecation warning for default 
implementation (which just tests n == 1) and forget to add the "deprecated" 
directive in the module documentation. So currently

gettext("Elapsed: %s second", "Elapsed: %s seconds", 1.25)

will emit a warning if there is a translation for these strings, and no 
warnings if it is not translated yet, or translation file is not found, or null 
translation is used.

It is now time to convert warnings to errors, but it would be error-prone since 
many developers do not have translations yet when write a code or use no 
translation (and fallback to hard-coded English).

The safest way is to add deprecation warnings also for default and fallback 
implementation before turning all of them into errors. Pablo, can we add these 
warnings in 3.10?

--
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 394762
nosy: pablogsal, serhiy.storchaka
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: gettext: deprecate selecting plural form by fractional numbers (part 2)
type: enhancement
versions: Python 3.10, Python 3.11

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Sergey B Kirpichev]

Sergey B Kirpichev  added the comment:

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 08:58:56AM +, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> Yep, you're absolutely right. I should have said "after the PEP is final"

Unfortunately, neither correction can fix that the PEP does not
"accurately describes the state of the implementation at the point where
it is marked Final."

> It would also be a backwards incompatible change at this point to
> start refusing strings that were previously accepted.

I'm not sure...

Well, it's not so clear which strings are accepted previously (i.e.
what's was documented).  PEP 515 claims one.  The docs says something
different:
>8---
If value is a string, it should conform to the decimal numeric string
syntax after leading and trailing whitespace characters, as well as
underscores throughout, are removed
>8---

and
--->8--
Underscores are allowed for grouping, _as with integral and
floating-point literals in code_.
-->8---

The 1-st sentence doesn't specify the way underscores are removed.  And
given the 2-nd sentence: it's clearly can't be like the current
behaviour of the Decimal constructor.

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Mark Dickinson]

Change by Mark Dickinson :


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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

> Regarding mail thread: I don't think that following the PEP will
slow down string conversion.

Sorry, I just don't think it's worth re-opening this discussion; Stefan Krah 
had good reasons (not just speed) to avoid implementing a precise 
interpretation of PEP 515 for Decimal.

It would also be a backwards incompatible change at this point to start 
refusing strings that were previously accepted. As I said, it's probably best 
left alone at this point.

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

> Well, then I something misunderstood in PEP 0

Yep, you're absolutely right. I should have said "after the PEP is final", not 
"after the PEP is accepted". PEP 515 was marked final on April 28th, 2017.

> The current behaviour is documented.

Thanks; I missed that. In that case, I don't think there's anything to do here 
documentation-wise.

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Re: Applying winpdb_reborn

[Peter Otten]

On 29/05/2021 01:12, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 28May2021 14:49, Rich Shepard  wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2021, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

It's apparently looking for some environment variable based upon the
code at
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web==2ahUKEwjfpYmk3-zwAhULI6wKHSPjAFIQFnoECAUQAA=http%3A%2F%2Fphault.rhul.ac.uk%2Fpy%2F_spe%2Fplugins%2Fwinpdb%2Frpdb2.py=AOvVaw12BuzlEMVXrEuOFLoQLpFX


Thanks, Dennis. It looked like an environment variable but I hadn't seen
that with the python2 winpdb.


I'm concerned by the NameError, not in keeping with the fact that there
does seem to be a global (module level) variable of the right name.


I'll add that to ~/.bash_profile and see what happens.


The NameError suggests that this won't work. Maybe you're module install
is an old version? 


This seems to be the problem. There was a bugfix in November 2020:

https://github.com/bluebird75/winpdb/commit/215712d75cf89b0678d563237746be647d5f25e7

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Sergey B Kirpichev]

Sergey B Kirpichev  added the comment:

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 08:32:40AM +, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> Standards Track PEPs are historical documents; it's quite common that an
> actual implementation ends up diverging from a PEP in small ways after
> the PEP is accepted, and we don't usually do post-hoc updates in those 
> situations.

Well, then I something misunderstood in PEP 0:
--->8--
If changes based on implementation experience and user feedback are made
to Standards track PEPs while in the Accepted or Provisional State,
those changes should be noted in the PEP, such that the PEP accurately
describes the state of the implementation at the point where it is
marked Final.
>8
I don't think that PEP describes the state of art in the decimal module.

> Possibly the decimal documentation could be updated, though.

The current behaviour is documented.  Do you mean we should document
disagreement with PEP as well?

Regarding mail thread: I don't think that following the PEP will
slow down string conversion.  Also, probably we want that strings
that supported by float() and Decimal() were interchangeable.

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

> If this is not a bug - it should be adjusted

Standards Track PEPs are historical documents; it's quite common that an actual 
implementation ends up diverging from a PEP in small ways after the PEP is 
accepted, and we don't usually do post-hoc updates in those situations.

Possibly the decimal documentation could be updated, though.

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Sergey B Kirpichev]

Sergey B Kirpichev  added the comment:

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 08:20:14AM +, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> There was some discussion of this on the python-dev mailing list at the time

I see.

> It's probably best left alone.

PEP 515 is clear.  If this is not a bug - it should be adjusted (as it
claims to cover Decimal's among other stuff).

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[issue44267] Wrong PEP 515 parsing in decimal module (both C and Python versions)

[Mark Dickinson]

Mark Dickinson  added the comment:

There was some discussion of this on the python-dev mailing list at the time - 
see https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-March/143556.html and the 
surrounding thread. It's probably best left alone.

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[issue41249] TypedDict inheritance doesn't work with get_type_hints and postponed evaluation of annotations across modules

[Ken Jin]

Change by Ken Jin :


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[issue44260] _Random.seed() is called twice

[Raymond Hettinger]

Raymond Hettinger  added the comment:

Consider moving seeding from _random.Random.__new__ to _random.Random.__init__. 
 Since random.Random.__init__ doesn't call the super(), the C version never 
gets called, avoiding the double seeding.   But, it still lets _random.Random 
function as a standalone class.

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[issue43855] test_ssl: test_msg_callback_deadlock_bpo43577() failed on macOS of GitHub Action

[Erlend E. Aasland]

Erlend E. Aasland  added the comment:

See also bpo-44229

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[issue44229] Intermittent connection errors in ssl tests on macOS CI

[Erlend E. Aasland]

Erlend E. Aasland  added the comment:

See also bpo-43855.

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[issue44229] Intermittent connection errors in ssl tests on macOS CI

[Erlend E. Aasland]

Erlend E. Aasland  added the comment:

> It could be, but the same thing happens on Windows

Are you sure? All the reports are from macOS CI. Christian mentioned that it 
could be similar to another ssl test failure that also happen on Windows, but 
those tracebacks do not match the ones in this issue.

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[issue32915] Running Python 2 with -3 flag doesn't complain about cmp/__cmp__

[Raymond Hettinger]

Change by Raymond Hettinger :


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Re: name for new Enum decorator

[hw]

On 5/28/21 5:23 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:

Greetings!

The Flag type in the enum module has had some improvements, but I find 
it necessary to move one of those improvements into a decorator instead, 
and I'm having a hard time thinking up a name.


What is the behavior?  Well, a name in a flag type can be either 
canonical (it represents one thing), or aliased (it represents two or 
more things).  To use Color as an example:


     class Color(Flag):
     RED = 1    # 0001
     GREEN = 2  # 0010
     BLUE = 4   # 0100
     PURPLE = RED | BLUE    # 0101
     WHITE = RED | GREEN | BLUE # 0111

The flags RED, GREEN, and BLUE are all canonical, while PURPLE and WHITE 
are aliases for certain flag combinations.  But what if we have 
something like:


     class Color(Flag):
     RED = 1    # 0001
     BLUE = 4   # 0100
     WHITE = 7  # 0111

As you see, WHITE is an "alias" for a value that does not exist in the 
Flag (0010, or 2).  That seems like it's probably an error.  But what 
about this?


     class FlagWithMasks(IntFlag):
     DEFAULT = 0x0

     FIRST_MASK = 0xF
     FIRST_ROUND = 0x0
     FIRST_CEIL = 0x1
     FIRST_TRUNC = 0x2

     SECOND_MASK = 0xF0
     SECOND_RECALC = 0x00
     SECOND_NO_RECALC = 0x10

     THIRD_MASK = 0xF00
     THIRD_DISCARD = 0x000
     THIRD_KEEP = 0x100

Here we have three flags (FIRST_MASK, SECOND_MASK, THIRD_MASK) that are 
aliasing values that don't exist, but it seems intentional and not an 
error.


So, like the enum.unique decorator that can be used when duplicate names 
should be an error, I'm adding a new decorator to verify that a Flag has 
no missing aliased values that can be used when the programmer thinks 
it's appropriate... but I have no idea what to call it.


Any nominations?


Why don't you just use the colour names from rgb.txt and their values? 
That's plain, simple and pretty standard.

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Re: imaplib: is this really so unwieldy?

[hw]

On 5/28/21 2:36 AM, boB Stepp wrote:

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 6:22 PM Cameron Simpson  wrote:


On 27May2021 18:42, hw  wrote:



So it seems that IMAP support through python is virtually non-existent.


This still sureprises me, but I've not tried to use IMAP seriously. I
read email locally, and collect it with POP instead. With a tool I wrote
myself in Python, as it happens.


I am out of my league here, but what I found in one of my books might
be helpful.  Al Sweigart wrote a useful book, "Automate the Boring
Stuff in Python".  In chapter 16 he considers email.  In the "IMAP"
section he states:


Just as SMTP is the protocol for sending email, the Internet Message
Access Protocol (IMAP) specifies how to communicate with an email
provider’s server to retrieve emails sent to your email address.
Python comes with an imaplib module, but in fact the third-party
imapclient module is easier to use. This chapter provides an
introduction to using IMAPClient; the full documentation is at
http://imapclient.readthedocs.org/.

The imapclient module downloads emails from an IMAP server in a rather
complicated format. Most likely, you’ll want to convert them from this
format into simple string values. The pyzmail module does the hard job
of parsing these email messages for you. You can find the complete
documentation for PyzMail at http://www.magiksys.net/pyzmail/.

Install imapclient and pyzmail from a Terminal window. Appendix A has
steps on how to install third-party modules.


In the next little section he shows how to retrieve and delete emails
with IMAP using the two third-party tools mentioned above.  And of
course there is more.  Apparently this book is now in its second
edition.  The first edition is available online for free.  The link to
chapter 16 which discusses email is:
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/chapter16/  Hopefully this will
prove helpful to the OP.


Thanks for the pointer!

I don't know which imaplib the author uses; the imaplib I found 
definitely doesn't give uids of the messages, contrary to the example 
he's giving.

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