Re: Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
On 9 Dez., 18:38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 9, 8:52�am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7 Dez., 22:36, John Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 8, 12:20 am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. As Tim Golden has guessed, it is the number of hours since 1601-01-01T00:00:00. Weird but true. See (for example)http://www.netpro.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=15threadid=457 For Example: the number 3566839 is 27.11.07 7:00. Y2K bug! The number 3566839 is a representation of 2007-11-27T07:00:00. To calculate this in ExcelI use this: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) �(put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-field to the corresponding date-time format). 01.01.1901 = date(1901, 1, 1) (A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24)) = (A1/24-(MOD(A1,24)/24)) which simplifies to INT(A1/24) ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) = TIME(MOD(A1,24),0,0) This is a convoluted way of writing DATE(1901, 1, 1) + A1 / 24 Your result is correct apart from the century. This is the result of two canceling errors (1) yours in being 3 centuries out of kilter (2) Microsoft's in perpetuating the Lotus 123 1900 is a leap year bug. If you must calculate this inExcel, this formula might be better: =DATE(2001, 1, �1) + A1 / 24 - 146097 (146097 is the number of days in a 400-year cycle, 400 * 365 + 100 - 4 + 1) You might guess what I need now: I want to calculate this somehow in python. Sorry, but I couldn't find anything in the module time or something else to get this calculated. Does anyone know how to convert this time in python to something usable or how to convert this formula in python? One very slight change to what Tim Golden suggested: make the result a datetime, not a date. dnsdatetime2py = lambda x: datetime.datetime(1601,1,1,0,0,0) + datetime.timedelta(hours=x) dnsdatetime2py(3566839) # your example datetime.datetime(2007, 11, 27, 7, 0) dnsdatetime2py(3554631) # example in cited web posting datetime.datetime(2006, 7, 6, 15, 0) HTH, John YES - that's it! Thanks a lot to John, Tim and all the others who helped me to handle this time format!!! I was irritated by the date of 01.01.1901 in the Excel formula, but in the end it was obvious that it has to be hours since 1601. Who knows how Excel calculates in the background... Everyone knows. Excel assumes an integer is DAYS SINCE 1900 and all it's calculations are based on that assumption. It's YOUR fault if you give Excel an integer that represents HOURS SINCE 1601, so don't expect meaningful calculations from Excel if you give it an incorrect data type. Enjoy the sunday and have a great week! Dirk Sorry, but then I seem not to belong to everyone. And it was not me who created this Excel-formula, I just posted it as a kind of help. And actually I just asked if somebody knows something about this time- format and how to convert it. I think I already wrote that I did a mistake and not Excel. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
On 7 Dez., 22:36, John Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 8, 12:20 am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. As Tim Golden has guessed, it is the number of hours since 1601-01-01T00:00:00. Weird but true. See (for example)http://www.netpro.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=15threadid=457 For Example: the number 3566839 is 27.11.07 7:00. Y2K bug! The number 3566839 is a representation of 2007-11-27T07:00:00. To calculate this in ExcelI use this: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) (put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-field to the corresponding date-time format). 01.01.1901 = date(1901, 1, 1) (A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24)) = (A1/24-(MOD(A1,24)/24)) which simplifies to INT(A1/24) ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) = TIME(MOD(A1,24),0,0) This is a convoluted way of writing DATE(1901, 1, 1) + A1 / 24 Your result is correct apart from the century. This is the result of two canceling errors (1) yours in being 3 centuries out of kilter (2) Microsoft's in perpetuating the Lotus 123 1900 is a leap year bug. If you must calculate this inExcel, this formula might be better: =DATE(2001, 1, 1) + A1 / 24 - 146097 (146097 is the number of days in a 400-year cycle, 400 * 365 + 100 - 4 + 1) You might guess what I need now: I want to calculate this somehow in python. Sorry, but I couldn't find anything in the module time or something else to get this calculated. Does anyone know how to convert this time in python to something usable or how to convert this formula in python? One very slight change to what Tim Golden suggested: make the result a datetime, not a date. dnsdatetime2py = lambda x: datetime.datetime(1601,1,1,0,0,0) + datetime.timedelta(hours=x) dnsdatetime2py(3566839) # your example datetime.datetime(2007, 11, 27, 7, 0) dnsdatetime2py(3554631) # example in cited web posting datetime.datetime(2006, 7, 6, 15, 0) HTH, John YES - that's it! Thanks a lot to John, Tim and all the others who helped me to handle this time format!!! I was irritated by the date of 01.01.1901 in the Excel formula, but in the end it was obvious that it has to be hours since 1601. Who knows how Excel calculates in the background... Enjoy the sunday and have a great week! Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
On 7 Dez., 14:34, supercooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 7, 7:20 am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. For Example: the number 3566839 is 27.11.07 7:00. To calculate this in Excel I use this: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) (put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-field to the corresponding date-time format). You might guess what I need now: I want to calculate this somehow in python. Sorry, but I couldn't find anything in the module time or something else to get this calculated. Does anyone know how to convert this time in python to something usable or how to convert this formula in python? Thanks a lot and regards Dirk I think you want the xldate_as_tuple function in the xlrd module: http://www.lexicon.net/sjmachin/xlrd.htm It works like a champ for me: import xlrd xlrd.xldate.xldate_as_tuple(38980,0) (2006, 9, 20, 0, 0, 0) chad! Thanks so far, that comes close to a solution I think, BUT when I enter 3566985 instead of 38980 I get the following error: Traceback (most recent call last): File test.py, line 20, in module print xlrd.xldate.xldate_as_tuple(3566985,0) File C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\xlrd\xldate.py, line 75, in xldate_as_tuple raise XLDateTooLarge(xldate) xlrd.xldate.XLDateTooLarge: 3566985 Do I have to use another function of this module? My number is 2 digits shorter than yours. What is 38980 representing? Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
On 7 Dez., 16:50, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7 Dez., 16:21, Tim Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 7, 7:20�am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. If it *is* then the easiest way is this: code import datetime print datetime.date (1901, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta (hours=3566839) /code But, as someone pointed out, that puts you somewhere in 2300. Where are you getting the 1901 from (and the hours, for that matter). If it's based, as AD dates are, for example, from 1601, then the calc becomes: code import datetime print datetime.date (1601, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta (hours=3566839) /code which looks more realistic. But frankly I'm guessing. TJG (3566839/24)/365 = 407 - YES I did this calculation too and was surprised. But if you try this out in MS Excel: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) (put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-fieldby right- click on it to the date format 14.3.01 13:30) and then replace 3566839 by, let's say, 2, Excel calculates the date 01.10.1901 2:00 AM. Try out other values like 5 or 24! So I thought 3566839 represents hours. Dirk Additional to my last posting: if you want to try this out in Excel you should replace the command REST by the english command what should be something like remainder. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
On 7 Dez., 16:21, Tim Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 7, 7:20�am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. If it *is* then the easiest way is this: code import datetime print datetime.date (1901, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta (hours=3566839) /code But, as someone pointed out, that puts you somewhere in 2300. Where are you getting the 1901 from (and the hours, for that matter). If it's based, as AD dates are, for example, from 1601, then the calc becomes: code import datetime print datetime.date (1601, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta (hours=3566839) /code which looks more realistic. But frankly I'm guessing. TJG (3566839/24)/365 = 407 - YES I did this calculation too and was surprised. But if you try this out in MS Excel: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) (put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-fieldby right- click on it to the date format 14.3.01 13:30) and then replace 3566839 by, let's say, 2, Excel calculates the date 01.10.1901 2:00 AM. Try out other values like 5 or 24! So I thought 3566839 represents hours. Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. For Example: the number 3566839 is 27.11.07 7:00. To calculate this in Excel I use this: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) (put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-field to the corresponding date-time format). You might guess what I need now: I want to calculate this somehow in python. Sorry, but I couldn't find anything in the module time or something else to get this calculated. Does anyone know how to convert this time in python to something usable or how to convert this formula in python? Thanks a lot and regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Converting Excel time-format (hours since 1.1.1901)
On 7 Dez., 16:50, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7 Dez., 16:21, Tim Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 7, 7:20�am, Dirk Hagemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, From a zone-file of a Microsoft Active Directory integrated DNS server I get the date/time of the dynamic update entries in a format, which is as far as I know the hours since january 1st 1901. If it *is* then the easiest way is this: code import datetime print datetime.date (1901, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta (hours=3566839) /code But, as someone pointed out, that puts you somewhere in 2300. Where are you getting the 1901 from (and the hours, for that matter). If it's based, as AD dates are, for example, from 1601, then the calc becomes: code import datetime print datetime.date (1601, 1, 1) + datetime.timedelta (hours=3566839) /code which looks more realistic. But frankly I'm guessing. TJG (3566839/24)/365 = 407 - YES I did this calculation too and was surprised. But if you try this out in MS Excel: =01.01.1901+(A1/24-(REST(A1;24)/24))+ZEIT(REST(A1;24);0;0) (put 3566839 in field A1 and switch the format of the result-fieldby right- click on it to the date format 14.3.01 13:30) and then replace 3566839 by, let's say, 2, Excel calculates the date 01.10.1901 2:00 AM. Try out other values like 5 or 24! So I thought 3566839 represents hours. Dirk Oh - sorry again: in the Excel formula replace also ZEIT with TIME. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Active Directory: how to delete a user from a group?
On 2 Mai, 17:48, Tim Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Golden wrote: Dirk Hagemannwrote: Hi! Does anyone has experience with manipulating MS Active Directory objects? I'd like to delete some users from a group, but so far I couldn't find anything about this. There is some good stuff about retrieving data out of the AD (thanks to Tim Golden!), but how can I manipulate or change AD objects like users, computers and groups with Python? Is there somewhere a documentation or some code? I freely admit I don't do too much changing of AD objects, but my module should at least support the methods for doing things. Some examples in Active Directory Cookbook: http://techtasks.com/code/viewbook/2 Sorry, you wanted to remove a user *from a group*. Misread. Translated fromhttp://techtasks.com/code/viewbookcode/1626 code import active_directory group = active_directory.find_group (name-of-group) # or group = active_directory.AD_object (group-moniker) user = active_directory.find_user (name-of-user) # or user = active_directory.AD_object (user-moniker) group.Remove (user.path ()) /code Obviously, for something this simple using an extra module is overkill. You might as well: code import win32com.client group = win32com.client.GetObject (group-moniker) group.Remove (user-moniker) /code NB I haven't tried these, I've just translated them from the Cookbook site! TJG Hi Tim! The first code does exactly what I want - thanks a lot again for your help. Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Active Directory: how to delete a user from a group?
Hi! Does anyone has experience with manipulating MS Active Directory objects? I'd like to delete some users from a group, but so far I couldn't find anything about this. There is some good stuff about retrieving data out of the AD (thanks to Tim Golden!), but how can I manipulate or change AD objects like users, computers and groups with Python? Is there somewhere a documentation or some code? Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/05/09/SecurityBriefs/ http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bsz5788z.aspx Thanks for the links Tim! This really seems to go in the right direction. Tomorrow I will talk to my colleague who takes care of the webserver. Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
I already mentioned, that it the following works when it's NOT executed by the webserver: code import adodbapi db = adodbapi.connect (Provider=sqloledb;Data Source=VODEV1;Initial Catalog=EVOBACK;Integrated Security=SSPI;) q = db.cursor () q.execute (SELECT SYSTEM_USER) print q.fetchone () q.close () /code Now I found this work-around: I have on a fileserver some directories with restricted rights. In every directory is a file which has always the same name. Now I let the script (executed by the IIS-Webserver) try to open this file (directory is chosen by the user): data = open(server\\directory\\+variable+\\index.py,r).readlines() If the NT-Account of the user has the right to open this file, the script will proceed with the addicted Database-View. If the user has not the right he gets an error-message. And this works! In this case the webserver is working on the fileserver with the NT-account of the user who has used the webinterface. So on the one hand the IIS works fine with the fileserver, but the IIS does not work with the SQL-Server. And it seems not to be the fault of the code, because it works when it's executed directly. It's so confusing... Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
You have a user named null?
Off-hand, it looks very much like the CGI script is still running
with the privileges of the web-server, and /that/ is set up in a locked
down account that doesn't have connection rights.
I also thought this might be the reason, but when I include
username = os.environ.get('REMOTE_USER')
in this script and print the username, it's my NT-username and not a
webserver user.
By the way - the webserver is an IIS.
I once before had the problem that some code worked fine when I
directly executed it, but didn't work when executed by this webserver
(both again with the same user-account).
May be it has something to do with the IIS. I will try to find a
solution by reading these sites:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=deq=%22Login+failed+for+user+'(null)'%22+%22Not+associated+with+a+trusted+SQL+Server+connection%22btnG=Suchemeta=
Dirk
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Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
code import adodbapi db = adodbapi.connect (Provider=sqloledb;Data Source=VODEV1;Initial Catalog=EVOBACK;Integrated Security=SSPI;) q = db.cursor () q.execute (SELECT SYSTEM_USER) print q.fetchone () q.close () /code Cool! That works :-) Thanks a lot (again) Tim! Have a great week Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
Very strange. It works when I directly run the script, but when I use
this script as a CGI-script on a webserver, I get this error:
File D:\Web\test\adodbapi.py, line 224, in connect raise
DatabaseError(e) adodbapi.DatabaseError: (-2147352567, 'Exception
occurred.', (0, 'Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server', Login
failed for user '(null)'. Reason: Not associated with a trusted SQL
Server connection., None, 0, -2147467259), None)
The script on the webserver is started with the user who is logged on
to the client-computer (not a webserver-user). I checked this with
username = os.environ.get('REMOTE_USER') in the script.
What's wrong when a webserver runs this script?!
Dirk
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MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
Hi! Is it somehow possible to access an MS SQL Server database from python by NT-Authentication or do I have only the possibility to use an SQL-Account with DB = odbc.odbc(myDB/myAccount/myPW) ? Kind regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
Hi Tim! I think the adodbapi module is interesting. I just tried it out but got this error: 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers', [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Login failed for user '(null)'. Reason: Not associated with a trusted SQL Server connection., None, 0, -2147217843), None) Do I have to make some settings at the MS SQL Server? I just can't find a simple example how to use adodbapi with NT authentication... Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MS SQL Server: NT Authentication. Possible?
My windows-user has already access-permission to the database. Thanks for the exmaple - I will try it out on monday! :-) Enjoy your weekend! Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
How to start more than one process at the same time?
Hi!
How can I start several jobs at the same time with python? I want to
collect data from some servers and I don't want to wait until the first
server is finished. These jobs should run parallel to save time.
What I tried is this:
os.popen('regdmp -m server1
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\Software\\Intel\\LanDesk\\VirusProtect6\\CurrentVersion\\Clients
av_server1.txt')
os.popen('regdmp -m server2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\Software\\Intel\\LanDesk\\VirusProtect6\\CurrentVersion\\Clients
av_server2.txt')
os.popen('regdmp -m server3
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\Software\\Intel\\LanDesk\\VirusProtect6\\CurrentVersion\\Clients
av_server3.txt')
I didn't get an error-message, but I also didn't get a result. No
text-file was created.
I also tried to do the same thing via batch-files, but that didn't
change anything.
Is it just not possible or what am I doing wrong?
Thanks for any help!
Dirk Hagemann
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Countdown timer for different timezones
Hi! I'd like to implement a countdown timer on a webite. It should show the months, days, hours, minutes and seconds until a given date and time. So far it's not really difficult, but this website will be used from different time zones, what will make a difference of 10 hours, if I use the time-information from the client. The event will take place at one fixed moment which is worldwide the same. Does anyone know a way to solve this time-zone-problem? Regards and thanks for your ideas Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: string.count issue (i'm stupid?)
I think I can tell you WHY this happens, but I don't know a work-around at the moment. It seems as if only the following _a_ (A) are counted: a_A_a_A_ regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Windows Registry Dump
@Diez: I'm not trying to hack into somebody's computer - it is about collecting data from my company's anti-virus-parent-server. And all the information is only available in the registry (thanks Symantec...). @Tim, olso and Fredrik: THANKS - I will have a closer look at these modules. regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Windows Registry Dump
Hi Tim! I want to do some analysis (as always ;-) ) and for that reason I think it's more practical to go trough a text-file. I can produce this text-file also by right-click on the key (the folder) in the registry and select Export. There one can select Text-File and the place where to save the text-file. This I want to be done by python automatically. Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Windows Registry Dump
Hi! Does someone know how I can make a Text-Dump-File of a remote Windows-Computer's Registry (not the whole registry - only a part of it)? Thanks a lot for some code or a helpful link! regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Convert Active Directory Object to string
Hi Fredrik! I think this will help me. I just have to do the same for danish encoding and may be some further encondings... Thanks! Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Convert Active Directory Object to string
Ok - this really works well for german special characters, but what to do with all the other encodings. What I could do is to try to vonvert it to latin-1 and if it fails I try latin-2 and so on. But is this really necessary? Isn't there may me a module which can do this for me and returns a string? What I want to do in the end is the following: I get some data from Active Directory, then I create a SQL-statement including this data and write this into the database. regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Convert Active Directory Object to string
Hi! When I receive data from Microsoft Active Directory it is an ad_object and has the type unicode. When I try to convert it to a string I get this error: UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xfc' in position 26: ordinal not in range(128) This is caused by characters like the german ä, ö or ü. But I (think I) need this as a string. Is there a simple solution??? regards Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
change an element of a list
Hi!
I have a list of lists and in some of these lists are elements which I
want to change.
Here an example:
lists=[('abc', 4102, 3572), ('def', 2707, 'None'), ('ghi', 'None',
4102)]
'None' should be replaced by 0 or NULL or something else. But as far as
I know the replace function of the module string does not work for
lists.
Any ideas? Thanks for some help!
Dirk
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Re: change an element of a list
THANKS! That works :-) But meanwhile I found another solution that works in my case. Out of this list of tuples I generated a SQL-Statement which is a simple string. Then I simply checked this string for 'None'. May be too easy... Dirk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Datatype of non-negative values
A result smaller than 0 should be just invalid. I'd like to work with try and except like this: value=20 try: value=value-23 except: print 'value is smaller than 23' Now it should run into the except. Dirk Hagemann Larry Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... What exactly do you want to happen when result would be negative? I'll guess be zero: pseudocode: x=value x=max(x-something, 0) That way if it goes negative, it sticks to zero. Larry Bates Dirk Hagemann wrote: Hi, Is there a datatype in python which allows no negative values? I subtract several times something from a value and I don't want to chek everytime if this value is still bigger or equal 0. Thanks for help! Dirk Hagemann -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Datatype of non-negative values
Hi, Is there a datatype in python which allows no negative values? I subtract several times something from a value and I don't want to chek everytime if this value is still bigger or equal 0. Thanks for help! Dirk Hagemann -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
