Re: If Scheme is so good why MIT drops it?
On Jul 24, 11:58 pm, ACL anonymous.c.lis...@gmail.com wrote: I actually think that the thing holding lisp back is 'bus factor'. Lets assume I have a java project and a lisp project: Java project: I have maybe 10 or 12 people on my team working on various subsystems of my project. There are probably one or two 'technical leader' types in the group, and a bunch of others who are sort of 'serfs', banging out java classes. Lets say one of my important guys gets totally splattered by a bus... I've still got another one left! I can rely on the other guy to keep things afloat while I train up a new leader type. Lisp project: I don't need as many people. I have 3 or 4 people, and one person is my technical leader and lisp guru. Guru is probably in charge of more difficult macros and (because of that), also in charge of the overall design (macros are design patterns embodied in code). Lets say he gets totally annihilated by the bus. What do I do now? I had all my eggs in one basket and my project is now stalled. A Clojure programmer mentioned interesting solutions to this used by his company, such as partnerships with similarly Agile companies. http://programmingtour.blogspot.com/2009/07/conversation-with-stuart-halloway.html I agree that the bus factor -- as well as some other problems -- works against Lisp's acceptance. All the best, Tayssir -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Reddit broke - should have remained on Lisp?
Alok wrote: reddit broke (sorry) looks like we shouldn't have stopped using lisp... See screenshot at http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1773/1980/1600/reddit-broke.jpg Whether they truly repent not using lisp or otherwise, their site appears to be 3 times slower ... Hi Alok, Supposedly, the Reddit team had a bit of remorse (though of course, we should take the following writeup with a grain of salt; maybe there are more in-depth sources online): If we could do it all over again, we'd still be using Lisp. Probably. Reddit: Stick with Lisp. If you want it done right, do it yourself- hosting- Avoid A+.net http://notelab.infogami.com/startupschool2006 The Reddit owners offered to write up their Lisp experiences. Did they? If not, then of course we have no real ability to verify their claims. (Particularly given that companies are far too secretive to let us actually go there and evaulate their claims for ourselves.) The problem was illustrated by Dvorak's admission that he skillfully antagonized the Apple world to drive traffic; I don't know how much Reddit was helped by this little soap opera, if at all, but these are problems. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAWDYaWAVQQ Tayssir -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Reddit broke - should have remained on Lisp?
Kay Schluehr wrote: Tayssir John Gabbour wrote: Supposedly, the Reddit team had a bit of remorse (though of course, we should take the following writeup with a grain of salt; maybe there are more in-depth sources online): If we could do it all over again, we'd still be using Lisp. Probably. Reddit: Stick with Lisp. If you want it done right, do it yourself- hosting- Avoid A+.net http://notelab.infogami.com/startupschool2006 Please, since this is a Python+Lisp cross-thread and you seem to have background info: can you explain why Lisp hackers have turned themselves into Python newbies for Reddit impl. and finally complain about the language switch? What was cause for their decision to use Python in the first place? Hi Kay, The claim was that their Lisp implementation, CMUCL, had threading problems which regularly crashed their site. http://lemonodor.com/archives/001301.html Also, they had concerns about the user community's size (at least the one surrounding the free Common Lisp implementations). http://xach.livejournal.com/66285.html All right, serious criticism of Lisp is a joy to read, as we're a technical audience... but how serious was this criticism? Apparently the original big announcement of their switch was deleted from the blog (at least the links are dead and I can't find it in a few secs of googling), but I remember they promised to write up their experiences with Lisp to help others if enough people asked. I was among those who encouraged them to do this, but I haven't heard a word more about this writeup. This would've made their claims easier to verify. As it stands, I don't know if they just had weird glitches with shoddy hardware from their service provider, or whether they seriously reached out to the community so it could help them. And they didn't even offer newbies the benefit of a helpful, critical writeup. (If it is indeed true they didn't follow up on the writeup.) For that matter, a nasty side-effect is it prompts some to heavily criticize Python in the same loose manner, out of a defensive feeling. Tayssir -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
