Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-04-13 08:07:06 +1000:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:06:36 +0200, Roman Neuhauser
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately, the python community seems to bathe in the
misorganized half-documentation, see e. g.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=python-listm=111303919606261w=2
especially the reply that (as I read it) suggested reverse
engineering as a viable alternative to documentation.
As I read the reply, it was a smart-arse attempt at humour, a *PUN* on
the word list (mailing list versus Python list). What I would call
introspection (not reverse engineering) was then suggested.
Moreover, both of the concepts mentioned in the quoted thread
(sequence.index() and the in operator) are IMESHO adequately
documented.
Do you have any examples of what you regard as misorganized
half-documentation?
Description of classes:
* What's with Programmer's Note, is the other paragraph of the
description aimed at salesmen?
* Why isn't there a link to a description of new-style classes
(presumably to the New-style Classes essay since, as
http://www.python.org/doc/newstyle.html says, NSC aren't
integrated into the standard documentation.
* Aren't class objects instances of a builtin type? What should
I read into class __main__.foo at 0x81c050c?
distutils:
* sections 10.26 through 10.45 are completely empty
* http://docs.python.org/dist/listing-packages.html:
when you say packages = ['foo'] in your setup script couldn't
be any more vague I guess. Does the statement belong in the
global scope?
* http://docs.python.org/dist/listing-packages.html:
Then you would put package_dir = {'': 'lib'} in your setup
script.: does that statement belong in the global scope, or
is it a keyword argument for setup(), which would mean that the
listing at http://docs.python.org/dist/module-distutils.core.html
cannot be trusted as complete?
lists: this is a matter of taste, but I find the split of list
description between http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq.html and
http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq-mutable.html (without pointers
from typesseq.html to typesseq-mutable.html where I would expect
them, such as mentioning append()) confusing.
The above applies to other mutable sequential types as well, of
course.
In general, various parts of the documentation often refer the
reader to other parts without using html anchors, what should be
concise, accurate, and complete description is a meandering essay
with vague formulations (see quotes from the distutils manual
above), etc.
There's also this thing with easy access to individual nodes:
I often miss being able to type something like
http://docs.python.org/os.path.expanduser and be redirected to
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-os.path.html#l2h-1731
Mebbe it's just me, but I've been trying python on and off for
several years now, and it's always been precisely its documentation
that has made me back out. I know I'll get to know the language
quite well some time, but it'll be through scars, and I'll have many
f*cks behind me.
Here's a puzzle for you: Where does this list appear? What's missing?
..., Mullender, Nagata, Ng, Oner, Oppelstrup, ...
Sorry, I don't have time for puzzles.
--
How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You don't know, man. You don't KNOW.
Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991
--
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Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Roman Neuhauser wrote: Here's a puzzle for you: Where does this list appear? What's missing? ..., Mullender, Nagata, Ng, Oner, Oppelstrup, ... Sorry, I don't have time for puzzles. nor for contributing, it seems. otherwise, your name would be on that list. /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-04-17 14:59:50 +0200: Roman Neuhauser wrote: Here's a puzzle for you: Where does this list appear? What's missing? ..., Mullender, Nagata, Ng, Oner, Oppelstrup, ... Sorry, I don't have time for puzzles. nor for contributing, it seems. otherwise, your name would be on that list. Right. There's a finite number of hours in a day, and I chose to spend most of it on FreeBSD, and my name is on that operating system's contributor list. You're welcome to use the results of the work. But anyway, I was honestly asked about what I considered suboptimal in the python documentation, and I honestly answered. Does that bother you? -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
Hi All--
Richie Hindle wrote:
[Xah]
motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fuck ... fucking
fucking ... fucking ... mother fucking ... fucking ... piece of shit ...
motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... big asshole ... masturbation ...
Fucking morons ... fucking stupid ... fuckhead coders ... fuckheads ...
you fucking asses.
paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few
hours.
Can we paypal you a hundred dollars to leave us alone? I'll pledge $10.
Are there another nine people here who'll do the same?
Why don't we pay him $100 to re-write the PERL docs?
+1 !
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
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Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Pokerface schrieb: Gotta say, is we let this man write the docs for us, they'll sure as sugar be more colorful than the ones we presently have, even if he doesn't manage to make them better. The [insert relation]ing Python interpreter is usually installed as /usr/local/bin/python on those g*dd*mn machines where it is available; putting /usr/local/bin in your ing Unix shell's search path makes it possible to start it by typing the command python to the shell. F***er. Please think of people with other native languages who can possibly read the existing documentation without a dictionary but would certainly need one for this. Koczian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Xah Lee wrote: http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-re.html http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/node114.html - QUOTE The module defines several functions, constants, and an exception. Some of the functions are simplified versions of the full featured methods for compiled regular expressions. Most non-trivial applications always use the compiled form UNQUOTE What does a programer who wants to use regex gets out from this piece of motherfucking irrevalent drivel? Until now, I have regarded you as a mildly amusing moron. But now I find you're simply illiterate. Buh-bye. -- John W. Kennedy A proud member of the reality-based community. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
[perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-re.html http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/node114.html - QUOTE The module defines several functions, constants, and an exception. Some of the functions are simplified versions of the full featured methods for compiled regular expressions. Most non-trivial applications always use the compiled form UNQUOTE What does a programer who wants to use regex gets out from this piece of motherfucking irrevalent drivel? -- QUOTE compile( pattern[, flags]) Compile a regular expression pattern into a regular expression object, which can be used for matching using its match() and search() methods, described below. The expression's behaviour can be modified by specifying a flags value. Values can be any of the following variables, combined using bitwise OR (the | operator). UNQUOTE What exactly is it fucking saying? I wanted to use regex to find replace on text. I've read in a file. Trying to reading this fucking doc is a pain in the ass. What are these flags? Do i do re.compile(r'mypat','M') or re.compile(r'mypat',M) or perhaps re.compile(r'mypat',re.M) The M isn't a fucking variable. Why does the doc incompetently use that term? And what the fuck is it unclearly meant by OR operator with the mother fucking bitwise jargon? All a person reading regex really wanted is to see how to use a string pattern and replace it with another. The fucking doc cannot be possibly fucking worsely written. Fuck the mother fucking coders in the IT industry. So, is re.compile(r'mypat','M') re.compile(r'mypat','MULTILINE') equivalent? and, by that fucking bitwise shit is it meant to say like re.compile(r'mypat','M'|'U') ? why cannot this piece of shit writing give a single example of usage? and motherfucking confusedly organized, with fucking variable terms the writer don't fucking understand, and meanwhile always trying to sound big asshole and don't stop at masturbation by mention a regex book and not hesitate to mention another language Perl. Fucking morons. for a exposition of IT's fucking stupid docs and their fuckhead coders, see: http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/xlali_skami_cukta.html a cleaned up account of this post will be appended to the above exposition. One final piece of advice here to sober up the fuckheads who are currently offended and defiant: you want to ask yourself this question: Can a seasoned programer, who is expert at least 2 languages, who is also a expert at Perl and knew regex well, and who has also read the official Python tutorial and has written at least 10 simple python programs over a span of a month, can such a person, who have not yet used regex in Python but now wants to use regex in Python and have just read the doc, must he, resort to many trial and error to see exactly what the doc is talking about? But, can this doc be (re-)written effectively and easily so that any programers needn't do trial'n'error post-reading? The answer to the questions are resounding yeses, you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. Fuck you the standard IT morons. Excuse me for i didn't have time to write a more coherent and detailed analysis of the stupidities of the re doc. Xah [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
I've had enough. *PLONK* -- Michael Hoffman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Xah Lee wrote: of motherf***ing irrevalent drivel? I am greatly amused. A troll impersonating Xah Lee has made xah look like a total moron. LOL -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-04-12 03:25:33 -0700: QUOTE compile( pattern[, flags]) Compile a regular expression pattern into a regular expression object, which can be used for matching using its match() and search() methods, described below. The expression's behaviour can be modified by specifying a flags value. Values can be any of the following variables, combined using bitwise OR (the | operator). UNQUOTE And what the fuck is it unclearly meant by OR operator with the mother fucking bitwise jargon? bitwise OR (the | operator): it doesn't speak about an OR operator, does it? for a exposition of IT's fucking stupid docs and their fuckhead coders, see: http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/xlali_skami_cukta.html Interesting reading, I might send you a few of my pet peeves for inclusion. you want to ask yourself this question: Can a seasoned programer, who is expert at least 2 languages, who is also a expert at Perl and knew regex well, and have just read the doc, must he, resort to many trial and error to see exactly what the doc is talking about? While I understand your frustration (I curse the same when I try to use the Python documentation), you are spoiling your message by the (IMNSHO well granted, but still) unhelpful profanity. Unfortunately, the python community seems to bathe in the misorganized half-documentation, see e. g. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=python-listm=111303919606261w=2 especially the reply that (as I read it) suggested reverse engineering as a viable alternative to documentation. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
[Xah] motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fuck ... fucking fucking ... fucking ... mother fucking ... fucking ... piece of shit ... motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... big asshole ... masturbation ... Fucking morons ... fucking stupid ... fuckhead coders ... fuckheads ... you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. Can we paypal you a hundred dollars to leave us alone? I'll pledge $10. Are there another nine people here who'll do the same? -- Richie Hindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Can we paypal you a hundred dollars to leave us alone? I'll pledge $10. Are there another nine people here who'll do the same? Me, me. I'm good for ten, too. The current euro-dollar exchange course makes that the price of a normal size McDonalds Menu - so sparing that makes me healthier both mentally and physically. Great deal. -- Regards, Diez B. Roggisch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Gotta say, is we let this man write the docs for us, they'll sure as sugar be more colorful than the ones we presently have, even if he doesn't manage to make them better. The [insert relation]ing Python interpreter is usually installed as /usr/local/bin/python on those g*dd*mn machines where it is available; putting /usr/local/bin in your ing Unix shell's search path makes it possible to start it by typing the command python to the shell. F***er. -- Pokerface:: Posted from Tactical Gamer - http://www.TacticalGamer.com :: -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Xah Lee wrote: What does a programer who wants to use regex gets out from this piece of motherf**king irrevalent drivel? Any resume that ever crosses my desk that includes 'Xah Lee' anywhere in the name will be automatically trashed. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Hi All-- Richie Hindle wrote: [Xah] motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fuck ... fucking fucking ... fucking ... mother fucking ... fucking ... piece of shit ... motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... big asshole ... masturbation ... Fucking morons ... fucking stupid ... fuckhead coders ... fuckheads ... you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. Can we paypal you a hundred dollars to leave us alone? I'll pledge $10. Are there another nine people here who'll do the same? Why don't we pay him $100 to re-write the PERL docs? Metta, Ivan -- Ivan Van Laningham God N Locomotive Works http://www.andi-holmes.com/ http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:02:20 -0700, Joe Smith wrote: Xah Lee wrote: of motherf***ing irrevalent drivel? I am greatly amused. A troll impersonating Xah Lee has made xah look like a total moron. LOL The fucking doc cannot be possibly fucking worsely written. This is very Xahish though, even if it's not him. It's right up there with AND, the writting as usuall is fantastic incompetent. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Joe Smith wrote: Xah Lee wrote: of motherf***ing irrevalent drivel? I am greatly amused. A troll impersonating Xah Lee has made xah look like a total moron. LOL Sorry, Joe, but why do you think this wasn't Xah? Every detail of the post is consistent with his recent postings. And a secondary, but purely rhetorical, question: how could the post have made him look like a moron when he already looked like one? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
His vitriol should at least warrant a temporary ban. No money need change hands. Top-posting-because-it-wasn't-worth-quoting, Robert Brewer MIS Amor Ministries [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richie Hindle Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 4:10 AM To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued) [Xah] motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fuck ... fucking fucking ... fucking ... mother fucking ... fucking ... piece of shit ... motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... big asshole ... masturbation ... Fucking morons ... fucking stupid ... fuckhead coders ... fuckheads ... you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. Can we paypal you a hundred dollars to leave us alone? I'll pledge $10. Are there another nine people here who'll do the same? -- Richie Hindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Peter Hansen wrote: Joe Smith wrote: Xah Lee wrote: of motherf***ing irrevalent drivel? I am greatly amused. A troll impersonating Xah Lee has made xah look like a total moron. LOL Sorry, Joe, but why do you think this wasn't Xah? why do you think Joe and Xah are two different persons? ;-) /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Fredrik Lundh wrote: Peter Hansen wrote: Joe Smith wrote: Xah Lee wrote: of motherf***ing irrevalent drivel? I am greatly amused. A troll impersonating Xah Lee has made xah look like a total moron. LOL Sorry, Joe, but why do you think this wasn't Xah? why do you think Joe and Xah are two different persons? ;-) Because Joe writes properly, and concisely. ;-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Ivan Van Laningham wrote: Richie Hindle wrote: [Xah] motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fucking ... fuck ... fucking fucking ... fucking ... mother fucking ... fucking ... piece of shit ... motherfucking ... fucking ... fucking ... big asshole ... masturbation ... Fucking morons ... fucking stupid ... fuckhead coders ... fuckheads ... you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. Can we paypal you a hundred dollars to leave us alone? I'll pledge $10. Are there another nine people here who'll do the same? Why don't we pay him $100 to re-write the PERL docs? Interestingly, Richard Hindle's message was classified as ham by my spambayes, whereas your message was unsure. Could it be the second-to-last word doing it? (-; Gerrit. -- Weather in Twenthe, Netherlands 12/04 19:55: 13.0C wind 2.2 m/s NNW (57 m above NAP) -- In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. -Dwight David Eisenhower, January 17, 1961 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:06:36 +0200, Roman Neuhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, the python community seems to bathe in the misorganized half-documentation, see e. g. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=python-listm=111303919606261w=2 especially the reply that (as I read it) suggested reverse engineering as a viable alternative to documentation. As I read the reply, it was a smart-arse attempt at humour, a *PUN* on the word list (mailing list versus Python list). What I would call introspection (not reverse engineering) was then suggested. Moreover, both of the concepts mentioned in the quoted thread (sequence.index() and the in operator) are IMESHO adequately documented. Do you have any examples of what you regard as misorganized half-documentation? Here's a puzzle for you: Where does this list appear? What's missing? ..., Mullender, Nagata, Ng, Oner, Oppelstrup, ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
In comp.lang.perl.misc Xah Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer to the questions are resounding yeses, you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. Fuck you the standard IT morons. Excuse me for i didn't have time to write a more coherent and detailed analysis of the stupidities of the re doc. Don't worry! Very soon, some nice men in white coats will show you a comfortable room with soft walls in which you can write such documentation to your hearts content. Axel -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Xah Lee wrote: [mountains of irrelevant drivel which normal people would boil down to I don't understand the doicumentation]. Even then, I'd still be on the side of the documentation. The answer to the questions are resounding yeses, you fucking asses. paypal me a hundred dollars and i'll rewrite the whole re doc in a few hours. I will personally pay you a hundred dollars if you can find enough time between now and this time next week - you should be able to find a few hours in 168 without unduly conveniencing yourself. The condition for winning the prize is that at least five regular posters to c.l.py have to mail me and saythey think your version is better. If no such document gets produced, we must assume you are too busy? Fuck you the standard IT morons. Excuse me for i didn't have time to write a more coherent and detailed analysis of the stupidities of the re doc. I have learned not to expect coherent and detailed analysis, so I have managed to contain my disappointment. non-standard-moronical-ly y'rs - steve -- Steve Holden+1 703 861 4237 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ Python Web Programming http://pydish.holdenweb.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
