Re: Can you please give me some advice?
* Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200) [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : (snip) I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World program is puts 'Hello, World!' whereas the Python Hello World program is print 'Hello, World!' suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do, but puts just doesn't. Hem Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less intuitive than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string' (implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct than what 'print' implies. You missed the point. puts for printing something to stdout is definitely a bad name for this operation. I mean put string (even abbreviated) what does that mean? On the other hand it does not mean that Python ist more intuitive than Ruby - only the printing to stdout is more intuitive. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
Thorsten Kampe a écrit : * Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200) [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : (snip) I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World program is puts 'Hello, World!' whereas the Python Hello World program is print 'Hello, World!' suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do, but puts just doesn't. Hem Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less intuitive than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string' (implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct than what 'print' implies. You missed the point. Your opinion. puts for printing something to stdout MHO It's not printing. To me, printing implies a printer and a piece of paper (or other appropriate support). It's sending bytes to some kind of cs abstraction known as a stream. /MHO But anyway... This is certainly enough to prove that intuitive is a *very* subjective qualifier. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Can you please give me some advice?
Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. Can you please give me some advice? Byung-Hee -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What kind of advice do you expect on a NG called comp.lang.PYTHON ? What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. Then stop learning it ;) ciao -- morphine -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:22:07 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. Can you please give me some advice? Hello World in Ruby (and a few other languages): http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2005/12/hello_world.html More here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Ruby_Creating_Ruby_programs Hello World in Python: http://python.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/helloworld.htm A Python tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ Sorry about the English. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
On Sun, 2007-09-30 at 12:33 +0200, morphine wrote: Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What kind of advice do you expect on a NG called comp.lang.PYTHON ? Your advice is the best.. really it hit my head very strongly.. What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. Then stop learning it ;) ^^^ You are bad.. I'm really pain.. sorry for noise.. but I really wanted to say about the above matters.. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
On Sun, 2007-09-30 at 10:36 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...snip...] Sorry about the English. That's alright. I am always struggling against English. It is not strange now. Thank you for your kindness. Byung-Hee -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
On Sep 30, 6:22 am, Byung-Hee HWANG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. Can you please give me some advice? Byung-Hee Dive into Python has been translated in Chinese: http://www.woodpecker.org.cn/diveintopython/ Hope it helps, George -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
Hello World in Ruby (and a few other languages):http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2005/12/hello_world.html Hello World in Python:http://python.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/helloworld.htm I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World program is puts 'Hello, World!' whereas the Python Hello World program is print 'Hello, World!' suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do, but puts just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like English as possible. I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and libraries and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on the fact that Python has been around longer). On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what they are saying. As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely impossible! Good luck! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
Byung-Hee HWANG a écrit : Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? Not much - both are hi-level dynamic object oriented languages with some functional aspects - and quite a lot (their respective object models are totally different). Also, Python, being somewhat older, has perhaps a better implementation, more 3rd part librairies, and a greater (in size) community - but it also suffers from cruft accumulated thru the years and a documentation that's getting a bit messy (not that it's badly documented, but some features are not necessarily covered in the official tutorial...) I am wondering what language is really mine for work. The one that best fit your brain, I'd say - or the one that best fit your project. Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. Can you please give me some advice? Not wrt/ learning English !-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
On Sun, 2007-09-30 at 17:27 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World program is puts 'Hello, World!' whereas the Python Hello World program is print 'Hello, World!' suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do, but puts just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like English as possible. I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and libraries and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on the fact that Python has been around longer). On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what they are saying. As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely impossible! Good luck! I read above your comments all. It will be good reason for my decision must be Python. Anyway, your guidance has been useful and is greatly appreciated. Okay, I will study English very hardly, as well. Thanks, again! Byung-Hee -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello World in Ruby (and a few other languages):http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2005/12/hello_world.html Hello World in Python:http://python.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/helloworld.htm I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World program is puts 'Hello, World!' whereas the Python Hello World program is print 'Hello, World!' suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do, but puts just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like English as possible. I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and libraries and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on the fact that Python has been around longer). On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what they are saying. As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely impossible! Good luck! Errhhh. guys.. I think .kr means Korea so he would speak Korean, not Chinese -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
On Sep 30, 2:54 pm, Ricardo Aráoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Errhhh. guys.. I think .kr means Korea so he would speak Korean, not Chinese In this case, http://kr.diveintopython.org/html/index.htm might be more useful ;-) George -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
(snip)
I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
program is
puts 'Hello, World!'
whereas the Python Hello World program is
print 'Hello, World!'
suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word print
has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
but puts just doesn't.
Hem Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python
I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less
intuitive than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail
is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string'
(implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct
than what 'print' implies. When stdout is redirected to a socket that
send bytes to a client program - like, say, a browser -, you're
certainly not printing anything.
Anyway, at this level, Python and Ruby are surprisingly close to each
other.
And, as someone who has been learning Python
from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad
in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like
English
as possible.
Here again, Ruby claims (or at least some rubyists do) that Ruby is as
close as possible to natural language. With examples like:
5.times do {
something
and_something_else
}
which is arguably more intuitive than:
for i in range(5):
do_something()
and_something_else()
I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing
new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt
the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people
While perhaps smaller, the Ruby community is (AFAICT) known for being
very active and helpful.
and
libraries
and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on
the
fact that Python has been around longer).
On this last point at least, you're probably right !-)
On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to
freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other
languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what
they are saying.
Indeed. Or even better, try both languages and find out which one he
likes best. Implementation and 3rd part libs set aside, I could not say
one is better than the other, so it's mostly a matter of personal taste
and affinities.
As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar
is easy
Would you say French is easy ? Because as far as I'm concerned, I find
it the easiest language ever. Could it be because I'm french ?-)
(snip)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, as someone who has been learning Python from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like English as possible. Sure, your next project should be learning COBOL -- it must be *very* intuitive. On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other languages. What are those advantages in respect to Python? Regards, Björn -- BOFH excuse #4: static from nylon underwear -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Can you please give me some advice?
Byung-Hee HWANG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, What is different between Ruby and Python? Not all that much; Python is more mature, Ruby more fashionable. I am wondering what language is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English because it is just very painful.. www.python.or.kr/ http://wiki.python.org/moin/KoreanPythonBooks Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
