Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Hello, I recommend you to check this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete The best way to release the software to Ubuntu users is by means of a PPA (https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA) so that people can track your application updates automatically. Before the PPA is created you need to have a launchpad account and a sign the Ubuntu Code of Conduct. However isn't that hard and you just have to do all this setup for the first time. A tool that might be used to automate package creation for an application is Quickly (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly). However, if the project development has already started, probably it won't be useful for you. Best regards, Javier 2009/9/25 Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
On Friday 25 September 2009 08:15:18 Olof Bjarnason wrote: Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages You could use distutils (setup.py) and include a readme that explains what apt-get commands to use to install pygame, etc. Generally it's better to *not* include the kitchen-sink with your apps; rather expect the user to have those libraries already or be able to fetch them with ease. I did my best at explaining that deeply confusing setup.py process here: http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distutils/Tutorial I have also seen two other approaches: 1. A new app called 'Quickly' which is some kind of magical auto-do- everything-ubuntu connected to Launchpad. From what I hear it sounds very cool. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/Quickly 2. The Ubuntu PPA repositories -- google around. (Seems Quickly does this too) hth, \d -- home: http://otherwise.relics.co.za/ 2D vector animation : https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/things/ Font manager : https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/fontypython/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Maybe the distutils list is more adapted for this question: The Zope community uses zc.sourcerelease to build rpm http://www.mail-archive.com/distutils-...@python.org/msg06599.html Buildout is said to have undocumented features to build packages. Tarek Ziade is working debian package with 'distribute'. Cheers, On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Rasterization Zion babylon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
2009/9/25 Jean Daniel jeandaniel.bro...@gmail.com: Maybe the distutils list is more adapted for this question: Yes The Zope community uses zc.sourcerelease to build rpm http://www.mail-archive.com/distutils-...@python.org/msg06599.html Buildout is said to have undocumented features to build packages. Tarek Ziade is working debian package with 'distribute'. Thanks Jean! Cheers, On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Rasterization Zion babylon -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com writes: I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. As a program developer, you should be less concerned with the specifics of any particular distribution, and aim first to make your work easily adopted by those with motivation for that particular distribution. This goal is made easier for program developers by standards and specifications aimed at that purpose. A major one is the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard URL:http://www.pathname.com/fhs/, and desktop application programs should comply with the relevant specifications at URL:http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Right. A major benefit of the Debian (and hence Ubuntu) operating system is a detailed, comprehensive policy on how to package the works for integration with the whole operating system, and strict enforcement of that policy. That benefit comes at a cost: Packaging the work in such a way that it complies with the Debian policy requires a certain amount of study and discipline, and so is not a task that you should take on lightly. It's often much better to form a relationship with someone who knows the topic well who is also motivated to package your software. That person (or group) becomes the “maintainer” of your work in Debian, and as you have noted has a big enough job as it is. Likewise for Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. to the extent that the distribution has such a packaging policy. Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. Such tools do exist, but in my opinion they do more harm than good. Their results cannot be anywhere near as suitable as the result of someone who knows both your specific work and the relevant policy. Better to lay solid groundwork by conforming firstly to the distribution-agnostic specifications. A sufficiently useful program that is also conformant with relevant standards will be highly attractive to skilled packagers, and they will be grateful to not have to fight against your work to get it to integrate properly. -- \ “There is something wonderful in seeing a wrong-headed majority | `\ assailed by truth.” —John Kenneth Galbraith, 1989-07-28 | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
On 25 Sep, 08:15, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! If you start simple and don't have to produce extension modules, it's not too bad, but finding all the right tools is an awkward task. I'm not sure that I've really mastered the craft yet. Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. You could take a look at this PyGame project: http://www.infukor.com/rally7.html The sources contain packaging infrastructure for Debian/Ubuntu, and you could certainly adapt that for your own purposes. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
2009/9/25 Paul Boddie p...@boddie.org.uk: On 25 Sep, 08:15, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! If you start simple and don't have to produce extension modules, it's not too bad, but finding all the right tools is an awkward task. I'm not sure that I've really mastered the craft yet. Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. You could take a look at this PyGame project: http://www.infukor.com/rally7.html Thanks this might come in handy. The sources contain packaging infrastructure for Debian/Ubuntu, and you could certainly adapt that for your own purposes. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
On 25 Sep, 09:26, Donn donn.in...@gmail.com wrote: You could use distutils (setup.py) and include a readme that explains what apt-get commands to use to install pygame, etc. Generally it's better to *not* include the kitchen-sink with your apps; rather expect the user to have those libraries already or be able to fetch them with ease. The various package installers and dpkg will probably complain about missing packages, but one could go all the way and set up a repository which works with apt-get. I did something elementary of this nature with some Shed Skin packages: http://packages.boddie.org.uk/ There will undoubtedly be things I haven't quite done right here, but it would give a reasonable installation experience, although there would need to be a number of packages available through the repository for the configuration exercise to be worthwhile. I did my best at explaining that deeply confusing setup.py process here:http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distutils/Tutorial This is a nice tutorial, and I'll have to see if I can contribute anything to it later. I have also seen two other approaches: 1. A new app called 'Quickly' which is some kind of magical auto-do- everything-ubuntu connected to Launchpad. From what I hear it sounds very cool.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/Quickly 2. The Ubuntu PPA repositories -- google around. (Seems Quickly does this too) The problem with some Ubuntu stuff, sadly, is that the maintainers like to have their own special toolset which isolates them from the more general Debian ways of working. In addition, Launchpad, despite its recent open-sourcing (in most respects), is perceived as something of a walled garden. Still, if it contributes good ideas to the mainstream, I suppose it's not all bad. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
2009/9/25 Paul Boddie p...@boddie.org.uk: On 25 Sep, 09:26, Donn donn.in...@gmail.com wrote: You could use distutils (setup.py) and include a readme that explains what apt-get commands to use to install pygame, etc. Generally it's better to *not* include the kitchen-sink with your apps; rather expect the user to have those libraries already or be able to fetch them with ease. The various package installers and dpkg will probably complain about missing packages, but one could go all the way and set up a repository which works with apt-get. I did something elementary of this nature with some Shed Skin packages: http://packages.boddie.org.uk/ There will undoubtedly be things I haven't quite done right here, but it would give a reasonable installation experience, although there would need to be a number of packages available through the repository for the configuration exercise to be worthwhile. I did my best at explaining that deeply confusing setup.py process here:http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distutils/Tutorial This is a nice tutorial, and I'll have to see if I can contribute anything to it later. I have also seen two other approaches: 1. A new app called 'Quickly' which is some kind of magical auto-do- everything-ubuntu connected to Launchpad. From what I hear it sounds very cool.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/Quickly 2. The Ubuntu PPA repositories -- google around. (Seems Quickly does this too) The problem with some Ubuntu stuff, sadly, is that the maintainers like to have their own special toolset which isolates them from the more general Debian ways of working. In addition, Launchpad, despite its recent open-sourcing (in most respects), is perceived as something of a walled garden. Still, if it contributes good ideas to the mainstream, I suppose it's not all bad. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Thanks for you answers. I am thinking of two target audiences: 1. Early adopters/beta-testers. This would include: - my non-computer-geek brother on a windows-machine. I'll go for py2exe. - any non-geek visiting my blog using windows (py2exe) - any geeks visiting my blog that use Ubuntu (tell them about the PPA-system) - any geeks visiting my blog that are non-Ubuntu (i'll just provide the source code and tell them to apt-get python-pygame) 2. Future players - I'll try to find people that want me to help package the game for different OSs. This list might come in handy ;) -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com writes: - any geeks visiting my blog that are non-Ubuntu (i'll just provide the source code and tell them to apt-get python-pygame) Note that for several years now the recommended command-line tool for package installation is not ‘apt-get’, but ‘aptitude’ [0]. Compatible command-line interface, uses the same back-end library and package system, but many improvements in behaviour; especially the distinction between manually-requested packages versus automatically-installed packages that can be later removed when they're no longer needed. [0] URL:http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html#_basic_package_management_operations -- \“The problem with television is that the people must sit and | `\keep their eyes glued on a screen: the average American family | _o__) hasn't time for it.” —_The New York Times_, 1939 | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
2009/9/25 Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au: Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com writes: - any geeks visiting my blog that are non-Ubuntu (i'll just provide the source code and tell them to apt-get python-pygame) Note that for several years now the recommended command-line tool for package installation is not ‘apt-get’, but ‘aptitude’ [0]. Compatible command-line interface, uses the same back-end library and package system, but many improvements in behaviour; especially the distinction between manually-requested packages versus automatically-installed packages that can be later removed when they're no longer needed. Great thanks for this info. I just tried running it on a vanilla Ubuntu system, and it is there. Most tutorials on the web still (I've read mostly Ubuntu-related forums) mention apt-get; seems like an error? [0] URL:http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch02.en.html#_basic_package_management_operations -- \ “The problem with television is that the people must sit and | `\ keep their eyes glued on a screen: the average American family | _o__) hasn't time for it.” —_The New York Times_, 1939 | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com writes: Most tutorials on the web still (I've read mostly Ubuntu-related forums) mention apt-get; seems like an error? Not quite an error (since ‘apt-get’ continues to work), just habit of old-timers, and cargo-cult administration by newcomers. -- \“Science doesn't work by vote and it doesn't work by | `\authority.” —Richard Dawkins, _Big Mistake_ (The Guardian, | _o__) 2006-12-27) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au writes: Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com writes: Most tutorials on the web still (I've read mostly Ubuntu-related forums) mention apt-get; seems like an error? Not quite an error (since ‘apt-get’ continues to work), just habit of old-timers, and cargo-cult administration by newcomers. It also appears that the installed software advises it, e.g.: p...@sleeper-service:~$ sbcl The program 'sbcl' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install sbcl bash: sbcl: command not found -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Hi, To create a .deb file you may use checkinstall, it's very simple and work very well. Em 25/09/2009, às 03:15, Olof Bjarnason escreveu: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
2009/9/25 Daniel S. Braz dsb...@gmail.com: Hi, To create a .deb file you may use checkinstall, it's very simple and work very well. Hi Daniel, From what I gather browsing the web abount checkinstall, it seems to be built with make install in mind. Does it work with python setup.py install too? Em 25/09/2009, às 03:15, Olof Bjarnason escreveu: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Yes, it work with any command that you can run on a shell. You could write a shell script to tell to checkinstall what to do with your program. I used to use it with java programs. I will send to your e-mail a simple sample script, so you will see how it's work. (sorry for my -- very -- bad english) Daniel Em 25/09/2009, às 12:54, Olof Bjarnason escreveu: 2009/9/25 Daniel S. Braz dsb...@gmail.com: Hi, To create a .deb file you may use checkinstall, it's very simple and work very well. Hi Daniel, From what I gather browsing the web abount checkinstall, it seems to be built with make install in mind. Does it work with python setup.py install too? Em 25/09/2009, às 03:15, Olof Bjarnason escreveu: Hi! I write small games in Python/PyGame. I want to find a way to make a downloadable package/installer/script to put on my webpage, especially for Ubuntu users. I've skimmed a couple of tutorials on how to generate .deb-files, but, wow, it's a whole new skill set to do that! Does anyone have any hint on a more economic way of creating single-file distribution packages for Python+PyGame projects? Maybe some GUI-tool that automates the .deb file creation process, but targetting Python specifically and not C++. /Olof -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
On 25 Sep, 13:21, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking of two target audiences: 1. Early adopters/beta-testers. This would include: - my non-computer-geek brother on a windows-machine. I'll go for py2exe. - any non-geek visiting my blog using windows (py2exe) I'd really like to hear of any positive experiences making installers involving PyGame for any system, but especially for Windows using cross-compilation of Python and library dependencies from non-Windows systems with tools such as gcc for mingw32. - any geeks visiting my blog that use Ubuntu (tell them about the PPA-system) - any geeks visiting my blog that are non-Ubuntu (i'll just provide the source code and tell them to apt-get python-pygame) Typically, applications such as games written to use PyGame can just run out of their distribution directory if that's good enough. You can go to all kinds of lengths to make the game comply with packaging standards and appear in the desktop menus - the latter is actually quite easy within the Debian packaging infrastructure once you know how - but it's not really necessary. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
2009/9/25 Paul Boddie p...@boddie.org.uk: On 25 Sep, 13:21, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: I am thinking of two target audiences: 1. Early adopters/beta-testers. This would include: - my non-computer-geek brother on a windows-machine. I'll go for py2exe. - any non-geek visiting my blog using windows (py2exe) I'd really like to hear of any positive experiences making installers involving PyGame for any system, but especially for Windows using cross-compilation of Python and library dependencies from non-Windows systems with tools such as gcc for mingw32. I'm using VirtualBox+WinXP on my Ubuntu development computer. Good enough for me.. - any geeks visiting my blog that use Ubuntu (tell them about the PPA-system) - any geeks visiting my blog that are non-Ubuntu (i'll just provide the source code and tell them to apt-get python-pygame) Typically, applications such as games written to use PyGame can just run out of their distribution directory if that's good enough. You can go to all kinds of lengths to make the game comply with packaging standards and appear in the desktop menus - the latter is actually quite easy within the Debian packaging infrastructure once you know how - but it's not really necessary. So what approach do you suggest? I've gotten as far as understanding how to add menu-items to the Ubuntu menus, simple .desktop file format to do that. One could cheat and write an install.sh script that adds the appropriate menu item, sudo-apt-gets the PyGame dependency (python is there by default in Ubuntu). The menu item could point to the download directory simply.. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- twitter.com/olofb olofb.wordpress.com olofb.wordpress.com/tag/english -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
On 25 Sep, 23:14, Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com wrote: So what approach do you suggest? I've gotten as far as understanding how to add menu-items to the Ubuntu menus, simple .desktop file format to do that. Yes, xdg-desktop-menu will probably do the trick. One could cheat and write an install.sh script that adds the appropriate menu item, sudo-apt-gets the PyGame dependency (python is there by default in Ubuntu). The menu item could point to the download directory simply.. I suppose the distribution of simple archives isn't enough if you want the dependency to be pulled in. I personally would therefore just make some quite simple Debian/Ubuntu packaging and distribute a .deb file - I believe most distributions of this flavour have a graphical tool which will offer to install such packages if downloaded, and the whole sudo business would be taken care of by such a tool. This isn't how I obtain software, however, so you might want to experiment a little. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Distributing Python-programs to Ubuntu users
Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au writes: Olof Bjarnason olof.bjarna...@gmail.com writes: - any geeks visiting my blog that are non-Ubuntu (i'll just provide the source code and tell them to apt-get python-pygame) Note that for several years now the recommended command-line tool for package installation is not ‘apt-get’, but ‘aptitude’ [0]. That's only true for Debian but not for Ubuntu; the official Ubuntu Server guide uses apt-get: https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/httpd.html Florian -- http://www.florian-diesch.de/software/pdfrecycle/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
