Re: Diversity in Python
On Tuesday 18 August 2009 12:38:36 Ben Finney wrote: Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za writes: On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote: Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list. Here my English fails me - flog as in whip, or flog as in sell? Yes :-) Thank you that clears it up. :-) - Hendrik -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote: In article pan.2009.08.18.04.34...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au, Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au wrote: The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention? Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list. Here my English fails me - flog as in whip, or flog as in sell? - Hendrik -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python
Hendrik van Rooyen hend...@microcorp.co.za writes: On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote: Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list. Here my English fails me - flog as in whip, or flog as in sell? Yes :-) -- \ “The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in | `\the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.” | _o__)—Henry L. Mencken | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:12:14 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote: In article pan.2009.08.18.04.34...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au, Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au wrote: The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention? Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list. Here my English fails me - flog as in whip, or flog as in sell? Almost certainly flog as in sell. But not literally sell, for money, but sell in the sense of convincing others it is a good list to join. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
In article 461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, Robert Dailey rcdai...@gmail.com wrote: It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help. Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of sexism in the Python community. I encourage anyone who wants to improve the situation to join the new diversity list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ I saw `cout' being shifted Hello world times to the left and stopped right there. --Steve Gonedes -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
Aahz wrote: In article 461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, Robert Dailey rcdai...@gmail.com wrote: It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help. Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of sexism in the Python community. I encourage anyone who wants to improve the situation to join the new diversity list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd like to know about it. I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on. How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ? That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design. We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to mention how open minded we are :o) Beside, the day you'll meet a real act of sexism in this list, please know that people talk and act on their own, do not assign their attitude to the whole community. You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No women allowed' on the python main document page. JM PS : Newbies are not welcome here ! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No women allowed' on the python main document page. Good God I hope you're being ironic. On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:23:39 -0700, Jean-Michel Pichavant jeanmic...@sequans.com wrote: Aahz wrote: In article 461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, Robert Dailey rcdai...@gmail.com wrote: It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help. Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of sexism in the Python community. I encourage anyone who wants to improve the situation to join the new diversity list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd like to know about it. I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on. How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ? That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design. We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to mention how open minded we are :o) Beside, the day you'll meet a real act of sexism in this list, please know that people talk and act on their own, do not assign their attitude to the whole community. You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No women allowed' on the python main document page. JM PS : Newbies are not welcome here ! -- Rami Chowdhury Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity -- Hanlon's Razor 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
On 17 Aug, 19:23, Jean-Michel Pichavant jeanmic...@sequans.com wrote: Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd like to know about it. Careful: you probably meant to write rejects, not reject. That changes the meaning of what you've written somewhat. I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on. How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ? Well, everyone can of course hide their actual identity on the Internet, but when someone references a group of people with a juvenile remark (if we are being charitable about the matter), it has nothing to do with guessing the characteristics of individuals. The whole excuse that anonymity defends against insults and harassment is a bit like saying that slinging mud at everyone is acceptable as long as everyone is encouraged to do it and nobody is wearing their nicest clothes. And unless your idea of a Python-related conference is something close to a fancy-dress event with everyone in character - which would obviously limit the effectiveness of such an event - you presumably understand that there is a genuine need for continuity between interactions on and off the Internet. This somewhat undermines your argument. That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design. An explanation is needed here for this not to sound like conversational padding. We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to mention how open minded we are :o) Well, jokes actually need an amusing side, regardless of how edgy (juvenile is typically the more accurate term) the joke- teller is trying to be, and that was completely absent from the remark in question. There's little room for error in communication over a medium like this one, as I pointed out with your opening sentence. And much as it probably upsets the unfettered free speech advocates, we should be able to assert that sexist aggression is not acceptable behaviour amongst those who seek to participate in our community. Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
On Aug 17, 8:44 am, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: In article 461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, Robert Dailey rcdai...@gmail.com wrote: It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help. Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of sexism in the Python community. Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of reflection of the community as a whole. Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to avoid bad eggs altogether. Price you pay for popularity. Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Carl Bankspavlovevide...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 17, 8:44 am, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: In article 461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8...@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, Robert Dailey rcdai...@gmail.com wrote: It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help. Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of sexism in the Python community. Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of reflection of the community as a whole. Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to avoid bad eggs altogether. Price you pay for popularity. Agreed on both points, but the lack of any reprimanding for making said inappropriate joke /would/ reflect badly on the community. Fortunately, said person's behavior has now been condemned by virtue of this thread; it's a step in the right direction. Cheers, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:31:51 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote: Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of reflection of the community as a whole. Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to avoid bad eggs altogether. Price you pay for popularity. Agreed on both points, but the lack of any reprimanding for making said inappropriate joke /would/ reflect badly on the community. Fortunately, said person's behavior has now been condemned by virtue of this thread; it's a step in the right direction. Pardon me, but he has been slapped, a number of times. Check the original thread, you'll see that the OP was slapped for his stupid joke, then slapped again for another dismissive comment after the first reprimand. You might argue he wasn't slapped *enough*, but that's another story. Personally, I thought he was either trolling for a reaction, or he was an old-fuddy-duddy (regardless of biological age), and either way reacting to his comments would just draw attention to something which is best dealt with with a cold-shoulder. Reinforce the good behaviour, shun the bad. The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention? -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
In article pan.2009.08.18.04.34...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au, Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au wrote: The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention? Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list. -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ I saw `cout' being shifted Hello world times to the left and stopped right there. --Steve Gonedes -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Diversity in Python
Steven D'Aprano ste...@remove.this.cybersource.com.au writes: The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention? In my case, it's because I was ignoring the thread in which they were made. The change of subject drew them to my attention, where I saw the community response was (IMO) insufficient at the time, so I acted to correct that. Now that the community response is (IMO) more appropriate, there's no further need to beat on those particular comments. Additional transgressions could warrant additional responses, of course. -- \ “I got some new underwear the other day. Well, new to me.” —Emo | `\ Philips | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
