Re: Doubt C and Python
Jeff Schwab wrote: 5. Scripting is easier in Python than in Java, particularly with regard to environment variables and process control. Of course, these are only my opinions. I am particularly not an expert on Python or Java. Note that for Java experts, Jython can be used for interpreting works. Jython has the same grammer to Python, or CPython, and is also able to call Java codes very simply. See, for example: http://www.jython.org/docs/usejava.html -James (^o^) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl) wrote: I use Python when my time is most valuable (in most cases it is), in the very few cases the computer's time is more valuable I write in C/C++. In cases when the computer's time is more valuable, why not use CPython with C/C++ API? Only most time consuming parts can be replaced to C/C++ codes so as to increase the speed up to native C/C++ programs). -James (^o^) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
I use Python when my time is most valuable (in most cases it is), in the very few cases the computer's time is more valuable I write in C/C++. In cases when the computer's time is more valuable, why not use CPython with C/C++ API? Only most time consuming parts can be replaced to C/C++ codes so as to increase the speed up to native C/C++ programs). That assumes that one knows which are the most time-consuming parts, that they are few (which is typically, but not always, the case) and that they are 'fit' to be transferred to the C/C++ domain. The one application I have written the last few years that probably would not be fit to this approach is a compiler (Jal). It spends most of its time walking the annotated syntax tree, with a lot of code contributing rather evenly to the CPU time. Don't take me wrong, IIRC that is the *only* PC program I have written the last few years for which I selected the language and the language was not Python :) But I mainly program PICs. Where is the 10F200 Python interpreter when you need one? Wouter van Ooijen -- http://www.voti.nl Webshop for PICs and other electronics http://www.voti.nl/hvu Teacher electronics and informatics -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-08-23, praba kar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What why it is more efficient. Kindly let me know with some details. Have you read _any_ of the thread? A number of people have already explained in detail why programming in Pything is more efficient. Please read the responses you've already gotten. Grant, Going by the Google Groups timestamps that I see, there's a good chance that none of the other responses were visible to the OP when the above followup was posted. -- Ben Sizer -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:15:03 +0100, praba kar wrote: Dear All, I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? regards Prabahar Just my $.02 I am a long time c/c++ programmer (by profession). I fell in love with python about 2 years ago. I use python for many things now, and I always have said, When it is too slow, I will write it in c++. I have not hit that point yet. For some reasons that are hard to explain, even though python should be slower and maybe even is sometimes, it never is an issue. One reason is that python has so much better data structures built in, and THEY are written in C, I end up with faster code. For example, if I am doing a bunch of string compares in C, I would use a dictionary in python. Python ends up faster because I can get to a better algorithm FASTER. The other reason is that so many times, a hardware I/O device is really the limiting factor (such as a hard disc, or a serial/network connection, or waiting for the user). I have found that GUI programs written in python/wxpython to be every bit as fast as pure C++. I guess you could say that because the LIBRARIES of python are in C, and because you are never very far from a library call, you end up running C code a large percentage of the time, even when you are writing in Python. My advice is to just TRY python and resolve the slow speed if you ever hit it. I never have and I write a lot of code, even hardcore math and image processing (See PIL - python Imaging Library). Michael -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:15:03 +0100, praba kar wrote: Dear All, I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? regards Prabahar Just my $.02 I am a long time c/c++ programmer (by profession). I fell in love with python about 2 years ago. I use python for many things now, and I always have said, When it is too slow, I will write it in c++. I have not hit that point yet. For some reasons that are hard to explain, even though python should be slower and maybe even is sometimes, it never is an issue. I made the same experience. The only reason I have for using C++ is number crunching. And I love boost python for building the bridge. Greetings, Uwe. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On 2005-08-25, Ben Sizer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-08-23, praba kar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What why it is more efficient. Kindly let me know with some details. Have you read _any_ of the thread? A number of people have already explained in detail why programming in Pything is more efficient. Please read the responses you've already gotten. Grant, Going by the Google Groups timestamps that I see, there's a good chance that none of the other responses were visible to the OP when the above followup was posted. You're probably right. Google groups may be The End of Usenet as We Know It. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Are we on STRIKE yet? at visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
--- James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? Becuase it is much more efficient. -James What why it is more efficient. Kindly let me know with some details. regards Prabahar Send a rakhi to your brother, buy gifts and win attractive prizes. Log on to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/rakhi/index.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On 2005-08-23, praba kar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? Becuase it is much more efficient. -James What why it is more efficient. Kindly let me know with some details. Have you read _any_ of the thread? A number of people have already explained in detail why programming in Pything is more efficient. Please read the responses you've already gotten. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! My DIGITAL WATCH at has an automatic SNOOZE visi.comFEATURE!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Doubt C and Python
Dear All, I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? regards Prabahar Send a rakhi to your brother, buy gifts and win attractive prizes. Log on to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/rakhi/index.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? Becuase it is much more efficient. -James -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
Will McGugan enlightened us with: Because I can create software many times faster. And its more fun. Same here. And because it's very easy to write unittests, for instance. Sybren -- The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
praba kar wrote: Dear All, I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? Because I can create software many times faster. And its more fun. Will McGugan -- http://www.kelpiesoft.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
praba kar wrote: Dear All, I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? For me, the choice is typically among C++, Perl, Python, and Java. The arguments for Python relative to these languages are: 1. Python's standard library includes a lot of functionality not in the C++ standard library. 2. Python's syntax is the cleanest of these languages. 3. I don't have to compile Python, so I can test changes much more quickly that with C++ or Java. 4. System calls made from Python are more likely to be portable among the platforms I use most (WindowsXP, AIX, Linux, and MacOSX) than system calls from C++. 5. Scripting is easier in Python than in Java, particularly with regard to environment variables and process control. Of course, these are only my opinions. I am particularly not an expert on Python or Java. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On 23 Aug 2005 01:22:31 -0700 James wrote: Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? Becuase it is much more efficient. It's rather because _they_ are much more efficient (that is, with Python). -- jk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On 2005-08-23, praba kar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? Because C is a dangerous, low-level language unsuitable for general-purposed application programming. I use C for: 1) Real-time, embedded stuff where memory is measured in KB rather than MB. 2) Device drivers where the other choice is assembly. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I will invent TIDY at BOWL... visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
I want to know the link between c and python. Apart from the fact that the inner part of Python is written in C I know no link? Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? I use Python when my time is most valuable (in most cases it is), in the very few cases the computer's time is more valuable I write in C/C++. Wouter van Ooijen -- http://www.voti.nl Webshop for PICs and other electronics http://www.voti.nl/hvu Teacher electronics and informatics -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
For me, the choice is typically among C++, Perl, Python, and Java. The arguments for Python relative to these languages are: add: I develop on my platform (which happens to be XP, but that is irrelevant), I put the Python source on my website, and I never worry about the platform my users will be using. An those users don't need to know how to compile a program, it will just run. Wouter van Ooijen -- http://www.voti.nl Webshop for PICs and other electronics http://www.voti.nl/hvu Teacher electronics and informatics -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Doubt C and Python
On Tuesday 23 August 2005 06:28 am, Will McGugan wrote: praba kar wrote: I want to know the link between c and python. Some people with C background use Python instead of programming in C.why? For the same reason that people acquainted with assembly language nevertheless chose to write software in C. It is a higher level language. That generally translates to: 1) Gettng much more done in much less time. 2) Being able to think about the problem at a more abstract level, and not getting befuddled with trivia. 3) Fewer bugs (there is a claim that bugs are directly proportional to lines of code, so that any language that allows you to get the job done with fewer LOC will also allow you to do it with fewer bugs). 4) The result is usually slower and bulkier, being less hand optimized. 1,2, 3 are definitely advantages. 4 is a disadvantage, but there are reasons not to worry about it: * CPU time and memory progress rapidly enough that wasting expensive programmer time on reducing them is often a poor trade. * The claim that a Human can optimize code better than the compiler assumes a very smart and talented Human, and/or a very dumb compiler. Compilers are getting smarter, and since a lot more people find the need to program, the average programmer is not that talented. I'm pretty I'm not, for example -- I'll take my chances with the compiler. ;-) Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Doubt C and Python
Terry Hancock wrote: * The claim that a Human can optimize code better than the compiler assumes a very smart and talented Human, and/or a very dumb compiler. Compilers are getting smarter, and since a lot more people find the need to program, the average programmer is not that talented. I'm pretty I'm not, for example -- I'll take my chances with the compiler. More importantly IMO is that humans cannot effectively optimise code without profiling - and compilers are not very good at optimising poor algorithms either. Humans are *really* bad at guessing where bottlenecks are. I had a case recently where the *major* performance bottleneck in a (Java) system was ... equals() and hashCode(). These objects were being used in lots of hash maps and similar things. The absolute best performance improvement I was able to make was to cache the hash code, and reduce the number of times that the expensive parts of the equals() comparison were called. It's a lot easier to refactor sub-optimal code in Python than in most other languages. This is tied directly to the fact that it's easier (and shorter) to express many concepts/algorithms in Python than in other languages. This further contributes to it being more fun to code in Python. Tim Delaney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
