Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-26 Thread Terry Reedy 

On 9/26/2014 7:41 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote:


Can't we just stick to trying to help people with Python, and let them
make other decisions for themselves?


I agree. The OP should watch the video on debugging, and the off-topic 
discussion of video versus text should end.


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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-26 Thread Ned Batchelder 

On 9/25/14 2:26 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote:

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Juan Christian
 wrote:

The thing is, it’s text.  I suppose I could use some text-to-speech
software to provide you with a video tutorial version of that.



No, you can't, if you think a video tutorial is only that, I'm afraid to
tell that you only saw terrible courses/tutorials in your life.


Go on, show me a good video tutorial.  One that is quick to consume,
and one I can come back to at any time I please (within reasonable
bounds).  I can just open a text-based tutorial and use my browser’s
search capabilities (or a Table of Contents or an index in an analog
book) to find the precise bit of knowledge I need.  You can’t easily
do that with video tutorials.

Also, video tutorials for code (as well as analog books) lack a very
important feature: copy-paste.  Nobody likes retyping large passages
of code.  Especially because it’s error-prone.



Chris, you are trying to convince the OP that videos are a bad way to 
learn, after the OP has told you that it is his part of his preferred 
way to learn.  Seriously? Do you really think you know what is best for 
everyone?  Different people learn in different ways, and there could be 
a large generational component at work here.


It's clear that you prefer text content to video content.  I do too. 
Lots of people do.  But videos are popular also.


Can't we just stick to trying to help people with Python, and let them 
make other decisions for themselves?


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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-26 Thread Rustom Mody 
On Friday, September 26, 2014 3:26:34 PM UTC+5:30, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Though I'm never using videos to learn, they probably can benefit some people.
> 
> Ask you this question : is there a major difference between videos and 
> presentations, if not how can we justify the money spent on Pycons over the 
> years ?

There is all sorts of buzz nowadays about left-vs-right brain and 
correspondingly how combined visual+textual (aka right+left) may be better than 
using only one approach.

Google throws up stuff like: 
http://www.inspiration.com/sites/default/files/documents/Detailed-Summary.pdf

To the OP:
You dont invite chiding because of using videos but because of comments like:

> I didn't learn debug with Flask yet. Only in the next videos.
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-26 Thread Jean-Michel Pichavant 
- Original Message -
> From: "Chris Angelico" 
> Cc: "Python" 
> Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2014 1:55:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Flask and Python 3
> 
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:35 AM, Juan Christian
>  wrote:
> > when I say video tutorial, it's implied that every video that I
> > talked about
> > have 1. The source-code (if programming/code related), 2. The
> > transcripts
> > and in some cases even 3. PDF version of the video.
> 
> I've almost never seen videos that have all of that - and certainly
> not enough to *imply* that about the term.
> 
> ChrisA
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> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Though I'm never using videos to learn, they probably can benefit some people.

Ask you this question : is there a major difference between videos and 
presentations, if not how can we justify the money spent on Pycons over the 
years ?

JM


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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Chris Angelico 
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:35 AM, Juan Christian
 wrote:
> when I say video tutorial, it's implied that every video that I talked about
> have 1. The source-code (if programming/code related), 2. The transcripts
> and in some cases even 3. PDF version of the video.

I've almost never seen videos that have all of that - and certainly
not enough to *imply* that about the term.

ChrisA
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Chris Angelico 
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:28 AM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick
 wrote:
> It doesn’t matter.  Here, have some wisdom, as provided by the top
> Google hit for “video tutorials suck”:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4565615

"""The online video medium may be great for bloggers, but when I'm
seeking information, everything else is a distraction."""

Not sure what "bloggers" means here. I blog in plain text, because I
believe it's the best medium for anything of importance. If you're
going to write something and then stand by it, and expect people to
respond with serious debate, text is by far the best way to convey
your point, if for one reason: quotability. Go ahead, make a video
response, and quote something someone else said! Easy, isn't it? No?
Hmm. Would you prefer to try quoting something from a text blog?

http://rosuav.blogspot.com/

Maybe you're offended by my stance on the Bible. Or maybe you think
Alice's Adventures In Down-Under-Land are worth talking about. Or
perhaps you think my review of The Merry Widow is unfair to your
sister's cousin's aunt who was in the cast. You can grab some of my
text, surround it with quote characters, copy and paste the link to my
blog, and make your own point. In five seconds, if you're used to it.
Even if you're really familiar with your tools, I doubt very much that
you can quote a video that quickly.

ChrisA
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Juan Christian 
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Chris Angelico  wrote:

> Actually, what most of the comments are agreeing on is that videos
> need their transcripts. Without them, they suck. Most videos don't
> have any sort of transcript. Ergo, most videos suck.


I'm not talking about "360p 3min kid's tutorial form Youtube" here, when I
say video tutorial, it's implied that every video that I talked about have
1. The source-code (if programming/code related), 2. The transcripts and in
some cases even 3. PDF version of the video. In this topic my code went
wrong because I did it on my own, and not crtlc/crtlv from the original
source-code, and it was a stupid typo error


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <
kwpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, video tutorials for code (as well as analog books) lack a very
> important feature: copy-paste.  Nobody likes retyping large passages
> of code.  Especially because it’s error-prone.


Coursera, edX, digitaltutors, tv.adobe, tutsplus and many other sites. But,
doesn't matter, if the person watching them is close minding and blindly
hate any type of video tutorial, all these sites, no matter how good they
are will suck for this person...


Any, I think you two fled the point here. I didn't create this topic in
order to talk about "video vs text", if you guy want to continue this waste
of time, create a topic and talk everything you want. I'm done here, as I
said, PLURALITY is the key thing, don't try to impose what you think is
right and wrong.

Bye.
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Juan Christian
 wrote:
>> The thing is, it’s text.  I suppose I could use some text-to-speech
>> software to provide you with a video tutorial version of that.
>
>
> No, you can't, if you think a video tutorial is only that, I'm afraid to
> tell that you only saw terrible courses/tutorials in your life.

Go on, show me a good video tutorial.  One that is quick to consume,
and one I can come back to at any time I please (within reasonable
bounds).  I can just open a text-based tutorial and use my browser’s
search capabilities (or a Table of Contents or an index in an analog
book) to find the precise bit of knowledge I need.  You can’t easily
do that with video tutorials.

Also, video tutorials for code (as well as analog books) lack a very
important feature: copy-paste.  Nobody likes retyping large passages
of code.  Especially because it’s error-prone.

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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Chris Angelico 
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Juan Christian
 wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick
>  wrote:
>>
>> It doesn’t matter.  Here, have some wisdom, as provided by the top
>> Google hit for “video tutorials suck”:
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4565615
>
>
> Using your link, the first comment from user 'arocks':
>
> " So, rather than asking for one medium of instruction to stop, I would rather
> encourage the plurality. Let the end-user pick and choose whatever he/she
> likes. "
>
>
> As the guy said, and many others in the comments agree, "rather than asking
> for one medium of instruction to stop, I would rather encourage the
> plurality.", and indeed, I prefer plurality, I DO use the official doc, I
> don't only see video-tutorials. You don't know me, you don't know my
> learning process, so stop imposing what YOU think is right, because what's
> right for YOU won't necessarily be for others. No matter what you say, it
> won't change, don't try to standardize the learning process, you nor anyone
> can do this.

Actually, what most of the comments are agreeing on is that videos
need their transcripts. Without them, they suck. Most videos don't
have any sort of transcript. Ergo, most videos suck.

ChrisA
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Juan Christian 
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <
kwpol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It doesn’t matter.  Here, have some wisdom, as provided by the top
> Google hit for “video tutorials suck”:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4565615
>

Using your link, the first comment from user 'arocks':

" If you have been into teaching you would realize that there are different
kinds of learners. Some prefer verbal material, others prefer more visual,
while some others like written material. The vast majority however prefer a
combination of the above. While you can pour over tutorials on how to use
Emacs; just watching a video of a power user using Emacs gives you a
different impression. It is really a completely different experience.

Sometimes it is faster to produce a set of video tutorials than to prepare
well-written documentation. Hence they make a call. However, I agree that
written documentation is the best medium for long term (i.e. smaller,
searchable etc)

So, rather than asking for one medium of instruction to stop, I would
rather encourage the plurality. Let the end-user pick and choose whatever
he/she likes. "


As the guy said, and many others in the comments agree, "rather than asking
for one medium of instruction to stop, I would rather encourage the
plurality.", and indeed, I prefer plurality, I DO use the official doc, I
don't only see video-tutorials. You don't know me, you don't know my
learning process, so stop imposing what YOU think is right, because what's
right for YOU won't necessarily be for others. No matter what you say, it
won't change, don't try to standardize the learning process, you nor anyone
can do this.



> The thing is, it’s text.  I suppose I could use some text-to-speech
> software to provide you with a video tutorial version of that.


No, you can't, if you think a video tutorial is only that, I'm afraid to
tell that you only saw terrible courses/tutorials in your life.
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-25 Thread Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Juan Christian
 wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick
>  wrote:
>>
>> Learning from videos is the worst thing you can do.  Use the official
>> flask documentation at http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/0.10/quickstart/ —
>> it’s much friendlier than a video.
>>
>> Also, there is nothing to “learn” — just change the line, and you will
>> have more helpful errors.
>
>
> That's the way I always learned everything. I watch some video courses, read
> a book and read the official documentation altogether.
>
> My way can't work for you, but for me it's excellent. And you don't even
> know which video/course I'm talking about, so it's gross to tell that
> "videos are the worst thing"...

It doesn’t matter.  Here, have some wisdom, as provided by the top
Google hit for “video tutorials suck”:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4565615

The thing is, it’s text.  I suppose I could use some text-to-speech
software to provide you with a video tutorial version of that.

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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-24 Thread Chris Angelico 
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Juan Christian
 wrote:
> That's the way I always learned everything. I watch some video courses, read
> a book and read the official documentation altogether.
>
> My way can't work for you, but for me it's excellent. And you don't even
> know which video/course I'm talking about, so it's gross to tell that
> "videos are the worst thing"...

It doesn't matter which video/course you were talking about. Chris was
talking about the *format* of videos. And I agree with him.

ChrisA
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-24 Thread Juan Christian 
On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <
kwpol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Learning from videos is the worst thing you can do.  Use the official
> flask documentation at http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/0.10/quickstart/ —
> it’s much friendlier than a video.
>
> Also, there is nothing to “learn” — just change the line, and you will
> have more helpful errors.
>

That's the way I always learned everything. I watch some video courses,
read a book and read the official documentation altogether.

My way can't work for you, but for me it's excellent. And you don't even
know which video/course I'm talking about, so it's gross to tell that
"videos are the worst thing"...

Anyway, the problem was solved, I already learned lots of new things and
I'm practicing them.
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-24 Thread Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick 
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:23 AM, Juan Christian
 wrote:
> I didn't learn debug with Flask yet. Only in the next videos.

Learning from videos is the worst thing you can do.  Use the official
flask documentation at http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/0.10/quickstart/ —
it’s much friendlier than a video.

Also, there is nothing to “learn” — just change the line, and you will
have more helpful errors.

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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-23 Thread Juan Christian 
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:46 PM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> Did you use tabs? They are more likely to disappear than spaces.


Yes, I use tabs.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Jon Ribbens 
wrote:
>
> app.run(port=8000, debug=True) might've made the problem easier to find.
>

I didn't learn debug with Flask yet. Only in the next videos.
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-23 Thread Jon Ribbens 
On 2014-09-23, Juan Christian  wrote:
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> app.run(port = 8000)

app.run(port=8000, debug=True) might've made the problem easier to find.
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-23 Thread Terry Reedy 

On 9/23/2014 5:57 PM, Juan Christian wrote:

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:48 PM, John Gordon mailto:gor...@panix.com>> wrote:

> @app.route('/')
> def index():
> return 'Hello World'

As posted, your code is not indented.  Is this literally how your code
looks?

The mail screwed the indentation, it's indented in the file.


Did you use tabs? They are more likely to disappear than spaces.


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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-23 Thread Juan Christian 
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:48 PM, John Gordon  wrote:
>
> > @app.route('/')
> > def index():
> > return 'Hello World'
>
> As posted, your code is not indented.  Is this literally how your code
> looks?
>
>
The mail screwed the indentation, it's indented in the file.


> > {% block content %}{% endlbock content %}
>
> "endlbock" is certainly a typo.


Oh my Godd... Yes, that's it, working 100% now. Thanks!
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Re: Flask and Python 3

2014-09-23 Thread John Gordon 
In  Juan Christian 
 writes:

> @app.route('/')
> def index():
> return 'Hello World'

As posted, your code is not indented.  Is this literally how your code
looks?

> {% block content %}{% endlbock content %}

"endlbock" is certainly a typo.

> I typed everything correct,acessing http://localhost:8000 works, but
> http://localhost:8000/blog/post/ gives me ' 500 Internal Server Error '.
> Why?

Have you looked in the http server error log for an explanatory error
message?

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Flask and Python 3

2014-09-23 Thread Juan Christian 
I'm following a tutorial about Flask using Python 3.4.1, but I'm getting an
error with a dead simple example:

generator.py:

from flask import Flask, render_template


app = Flask(__name__)

@app.route('/')
def index():
return 'Hello World'


@app.route('/blog/post/')
def post():
return render_template('post.html', post_content = "Hello, World (from a
template)")


if __name__ == '__main__':
app.run(port = 8000)



base.html:



{% block head %}
Test
{% endlbock head %}



{% block content %}{% endlbock content %}






post.html:

{% extends "base.html" %}

{% block content %}


Blog post title
Subtitle
date




{{ post_content }}

{% endblock content %}



I typed everything correct,acessing http://localhost:8000 works, but
http://localhost:8000/blog/post/ gives me ' 500 Internal Server Error '.
Why?

Python 3.4.1

Flask (0.10.1)
itsdangerous (0.24)
Jinja2 (2.7.3)
MarkupSafe (0.23)
pip (1.5.6)
setuptools (5.8)
Werkzeug (0.9.6)
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