Re: Install request

[Oscar Benjamin]

On 6 April 2016 at 05:08, Rustom Mody  wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 4:34:11 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 02:52 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>> >> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
>> >> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
>> >> 3.5 on Windows.
>> >
>> > +10 on that one
>> > ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there
>>
>>
>> Would somebody who knows Windows actually do this and then post the link
>> here please?
>
> Even if some windows-knower replies to this mail, someone else can wikify and
> put up
>
> Data needed:
> Which windows version.
> What error message
> What action to do

So I'm not a Windows user but it would be good for someone who is to
put up a full step-by-step (with screenshots) explanation of running
the python.org installer on Windows and then launching Python (by
running IDLE and/or from the terminal). One of the problems we're
having with some of the questions about this is that it isn't even
clear whether someone reporting these problems is referring to the
installer or to running Python or IDLE or what because they don't
understand enough about what's going on to answer those questions:
some pictures would really help with that.

The problems off the top of my head that have come up on this list are:

Python 3.5 will not work with Windows XP: install Python 3.4 or
upgrade to a newer version of Windows (or some other OS). As of 3.5.1
I think the installer should explain the problem but I'm not sure.

Python 3.5 is compiled with VS2015 and so uses the new Windows 10 ucrt
runtime. This should mean that it works immediately on Windows 10 (or
higher?) but that for previous versions of Windows this will give an
error "api-ms-win-crt-runtime.dll not found" or something. Explanation
and downloads here:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2999226

The next problem that occurs is the "modify, repair, or uninstall"
one. This is a messagebox that is presented to a user possibly during
installation or when trying to run Python after installation. This
problem has been reported many times and AFAIR it's always Windows and
Python 3.5. No solution is known to this problem (most of the users
reporting it have not followed up after their initial post which may
be related to the way posters on the list reply to them) and I don't
know if it has been reported on the tracker.

There is one other which is the "error 0x823408239" (can't remember
the exact hex) which is possibly due to a corrupt download or to some
problem with temporary files. Apparently renaming some temp files
folder can fix this problem but not sure. Again this problem seems to
be exclusive to Windows and 3.5 and not sure if it's reported to the
tracker.

--
Oscar
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Install request

[Rustom Mody]

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 4:34:11 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 02:52 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> 
> > On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> >> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
> >> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
> >> 3.5 on Windows.
> > 
> > +10 on that one
> > ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there
> 
> 
> Would somebody who knows Windows actually do this and then post the link
> here please?

Even if some windows-knower replies to this mail, someone else can wikify and
put up

Data needed:
Which windows version.
What error message
What action to do

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Install request

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 02:52 am, Rustom Mody wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
>> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
>> 3.5 on Windows.
> 
> +10 on that one
> ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there


Would somebody who knows Windows actually do this and then post the link
here please?



-- 
Steven

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Install request

[Mark Lawrence via Python-list]

On 05/04/2016 16:56, Igor Korot wrote:

  Hi, python community,
Recently there was a huge number of e-mail stating that the python
installer does not work.

When asked about it, people reveal that they wee using Windows and
they were getting
errors about missing DLL.

I know for a fact that in the InstallShield it is possible to detect
the OS you are trying
to install on.

So, here is my request: if its not possible to include the DLL in
question in the installer,
can the installer check for the OS version and ask the user to go to
Microsoft.com,
download and install the library?

It looks like people don't want to use their common sense and just
wanted to waste
everybody's time by asking what went wrong instead of just download
the dll executable
from MS site and install it.

Can something like this be done to eliminate those questions in the
future and let people
concentrate on the real python issues?

Thank you.



I fail to see why anybody in the Python community should put themselves 
out to answer a question for someone who is too bone idle to do any 
research in the first place, especially when the question has been asked 
and answered repeatadly over a period of months.  For those who 
disagree, they can provide the patches, or the edits to a wiki as 
appropriate.


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Install request

[Rustom Mody]

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 9:49:58 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
> Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
> on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
> 3.5 on Windows.

+10 on that one
ie When a question becomes a FAQ just put it there
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Install request

[Oscar Benjamin]

On 5 April 2016 at 16:56, Igor Korot  wrote:
>
> So, here is my request: if its not possible to include the DLL in
> question in the installer,
> can the installer check for the OS version and ask the user to go to
> Microsoft.com,
> download and install the library?

That's a very reasonable request. Why don't you ask this question on
the issue tracker? You can find it here:

http://bugs.python.org/

> It looks like people don't want to use their common sense and just
> wanted to waste
> everybody's time by asking what went wrong instead of just download
> the dll executable
> from MS site and install it.

I think these questions are coming from people who are completely new
to Python (and programming in general) so they find the error message
confusing and are unsure if they're doing something wrong or if the
installer hasn't worked or whatever. If you see this problem when
trying to run Python for the first time then it's hardly obvious that
you need to "update your runtime libraries".

There seem to be several different problems that Windows users are
experiencing with 3.5 and this one is the only one that actually has a
known fix: the others probably are bugs in the installer. I don't
think it's unreasonable for people to come here and ask about this. In
particular this is listed as the main place to "ask for help" on the
wiki:
https://wiki.python.org/moin/Asking%20for%20Help

Another possibility to improve this situation would be to make a page
on the wiki that actually explains the known problems (and fixes) for
3.5 on Windows.

--
Oscar
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Install request

[Igor Korot]

 Hi, python community,
Recently there was a huge number of e-mail stating that the python
installer does not work.

When asked about it, people reveal that they wee using Windows and
they were getting
errors about missing DLL.

I know for a fact that in the InstallShield it is possible to detect
the OS you are trying
to install on.

So, here is my request: if its not possible to include the DLL in
question in the installer,
can the installer check for the OS version and ask the user to go to
Microsoft.com,
download and install the library?

It looks like people don't want to use their common sense and just
wanted to waste
everybody's time by asking what went wrong instead of just download
the dll executable
from MS site and install it.

Can something like this be done to eliminate those questions in the
future and let people
concentrate on the real python issues?

Thank you.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list